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**Video Poker, Keno, Slots, 21** Gaming machines => CEI Video Poker Games => Topic started by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 11, 2015, 07:51:20 PM

Title: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 11, 2015, 07:51:20 PM
Hello everyone. I recently purchased the machine listed in the title, a 1982 Cal Omega Products/CEI Double up Poker with the knowledge that it was in non working condition. I do have some experience from when I was much younger working with coin op machines as my uncle at the time owned many video/pinball machines. For the last 20 years I was in the IT field and built/repaired desktop computers and laptops performing delicate soldering repairs and upgrades.


I purchased this machine with the intention of fixing it and giving it to my Mom and her Fiancée for a Christmas Present.



The board is a 903 Rev. B


I am unsure of the game eprom and there are only 4 chips present 2,3,4 and 5 with chip 1 missing. I have been searching this site as well as the previous site for any additional information, it appears, but I can not say with certainty that there should be 5 eprom chips but some of the 9xx series boards function with 4.


When I power up the machine, the screen lights up without an image aside what is burnt into the screen and there is a fast horizontal scroll on the screen. No audible sounds are heard aside from the fan spinning.


I tested all of the fuses as well as re-seated them. I cleaned the contacts and re-seated all non soldered chips with the same result.



One of the three fluorescent bulbs still works and I tested the other fixtures with that and they are working. The machine is lighting up some of the buttons randomly but I can not reproduce the same issue from one power up to the next with any degree of consistency.


I will head out to the shop in a few minutes and take some photos and a quick video showing the board and symptoms.


All guidance and information/further steps to take would be greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 11, 2015, 08:26:24 PM
Back from the shop with photos! The second pic is of the test setttings, it's blurry but figured I would post for now and upload a better one tomorrow.



Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 11, 2015, 08:29:43 PM
More photos:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 11, 2015, 08:37:48 PM
Other steps that I have taken were:
Removed all cables and reseated them including carefully removing the monitor and reseated the light/fan cables.
Tested without the game board plugged in and the display had a solid white image without any scrolling.


I'll try to link the video here from my youtube account to demonstrate the machines functionality when assembled.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 11, 2015, 08:49:13 PM
Here's a link to the video:


https://youtu.be/a5lNtMvyWv8 (https://youtu.be/a5lNtMvyWv8)

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 12, 2015, 06:18:05 AM
The NLG member with lots of Cal-Omega experience is SolidSilver but it looks like he hasn't been on here since July. Hopefully he will check back in soon. Sorry but I don't know these machines well enough to give helpful advice. I'd try measuring all the power supply voltages to confirm they are ok. And look for darkened or burned areas on the molex connectors, that indicates a bad connection and the contacts should be replaced or cleaned. And I would take the time to read thru all the past Cal-Omega posting to pick up knowledge about the machine and repair actions.

 
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 12, 2015, 10:20:27 AM
RPM - I'll see if I can dig up some members who know CEI and Cal/Omega stuff. I know a little and I'll see what I can learn and post back soon.
And...
 :NLG_WELCOME:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 12, 2015, 10:27:53 AM
Thanks for the help guys and thanks for the welcome! I did some additional research on internet search and some people are saying that the vertical wave and fast horizontal scroll are power supply related. If someone could direct me to which areas of the power supply/main/mpu board I need to test and what voltage needs to be achieved, it would be a great help.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 12, 2015, 10:39:34 AM
For starters, just for the hell of it, check the battery voltage on the MPU.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 12, 2015, 10:42:35 AM
Poke through this thread for info as well...
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=7434.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=7434.0)
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 12, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
I tested the 1/2 aa battery and it was registering 0v and soldered a single aa battery to the existing terminals without removing the 1/2 aa battery. I believe the 1/2 aa battery is 3.6v and the regular aa are only 1.5v. Would it be worth a try to make a battery pack supporting at least 2 aa batteries? Does the original 1/2 aa battery control/power the eprom or ram in order to make it boot?


I did go through the entire thread you are referring to but still no dice. The backplane is a 908. There is a capacitor near the battery that does appear to have leaked. I'll see if I can find an appropriate replacement for it and check back in with a couple of additional photos.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 12, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
The capacitor at C30 had/has visible leakage. I sprayed some contact cleaner in the area yesterday to try and clean it up a bit. I do have a capacitor here that is 16v 20uf but the original is 16v 10uf, i'll check around a bit more to see if I can locate a better/exact replacement and swap it out.


The ic at CR11 has most of the paint missing from it and does not register any continuity. Can someone provide some information about this ic's function and specifications? I am assuming it has something to do with the rgb/display.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 12, 2015, 01:05:21 PM
I tested the 1/2 aa battery and it was registering 0v and soldered a single aa battery to the existing terminals without removing the 1/2 aa battery. I believe the 1/2 aa battery is 3.6v and the regular aa are only 1.5v. Would it be worth a try to make a battery pack supporting at least 2 aa batteries? Does the original 1/2 aa battery control/power the eprom or ram in order to make it boot?

I don't know this particular machine but in general the battery on an older slot machine is used to keep the cmos ram data intact, it is required for regulatory compliance. The data in that memory is financial bookkeeping records, like amount of coins inserted, coins paid out, etc. Those records ensure that no one working in the casino is taking money illegally from the machine. Otherwise the employees with keys to the machine could do some sneaky stuff.

A dead battery can stop a machine from operating, depends on the machine, but it wouldn't keep a nice clear display from appearing on screen and you will usually get an error message saying something like "low or dead battery" or similar on a machine with a video monitor. It won't hurt anything to replace the dead battery with something equivalent to 3.6 volts dc. You can use a remote battery holder and connect the wires from it to the correct places on the board. Just be sure about positive and negative going to the right connection places. A battery holder can be bought that will hold the normal 1.5 volt batteries, either AA or AAA will work. If you use one that holds 3 batteries then the voltage from the batteries would be 4.5 volts, that may be too high. Some people get a battery holder that holds 4 batteries, they install 3 batteries and a diode in the place of the 4th battery. The diode will reduce the voltage by about .7 volts, giving you 3.8 volts and that is close enough to work ok, especially after the batteries drop in voltage a little as time goes by. The diode will need to be installed correctly, with the banded end to the red (positive voltage) output wire going to the board. 2 batteries connected together will provide 3 volts and that may be enough for your machine to use, hard to say. Or you can order a 3.6 volt battery with wire leads and connect it straightaway. Ebay and other places have them. But realistically I wouldn't think it is very likely that replacing the battery will cause the machine to start working completely.

The capacitor at C30 had/has visible leakage. I sprayed some contact cleaner in the area yesterday to try and clean it up a bit. I do have a capacitor here that is 16v 20uf but the original is 16v 10uf, i'll check around a bit more to see if I can locate a better/exact replacement and swap it out.

A lot of times you can substitute a capacitor that is close in value, especially if it is being used as a power supply filter or storage capacitor. The 16v rating is the working voltage of the cap, you'd need to use one with that voltage or higher, it just sets how much voltage the cap can withstand from the circuit it is connected to, so a 40v cap would work ok, but it might be physically too large to fit. I'd have to see the circuit drawing schematic to know for sure about C30's function. C30 and the nearby parts may all be part of the sound circuit, working with that large ic with the word "Sound" printed on it. A defect in the sound circuit will not usually keep a machine from booting, you'd just have distorted or no sound. If so C30 might be an audio coupling cap, if so the value isn't critical.

But that stuff you are seeing around C30 may be from the nearby part that appears to be missing, C34??, and not from C30 itself. If this is where the battery was mounted then all that corrosion is likely from the leaking battery and C30 may be ok internally, just has appearance damage but would still work ok. Or is C34 installed but not taking up all the room allocated to it on the board? Can't tell from photo.

Battery leakage on circuit boards is often cleaned with vinegar, then rinsed with water and dried thoroughly. The vinegar neutralizes any traces of the battery leakage and prevents further damage. You can scrub the board with vinegar and a little stiff brush like a small paint brush or a small cleaning brush (not one with wire bristles).

The ic at CR11 has most of the paint missing from it and does not register any continuity. Can someone provide some information about this ic's function and specifications? I am assuming it has something to do with the rgb/display.

CR11 isn't an ic, it is a diode. The part number is probably the same as the nearby diode CR10. Diodes are generally used to rectify or change a voltage from ac to dc, like in a power supply. They can also be used for other reasons, like a blocking diode to only allow a signal to flow in one direction. Other diodes are used to clamp a voltage so it doesn't go further than a set amount. If you can find the service manual for your machine you will have a lot more information to help.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 12, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
You said that your display was rolling from side to side, like the horiz hold or sync isn't working. In spite of that, can you push the buttons and get it to deal cards, does it accept coins and give credits? If so that means it is booting and running, just has a display problem.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 12, 2015, 03:22:18 PM
You said that your display was rolling from side to side, like the horiz hold or sync isn't working. In spite of that, can you push the buttons and get it to deal cards, does it accept coins and give credits? If so that means it is booting and running, just has a display problem.


The machine itself powers up, lights turn on for the header and fan spins normally, but has no game play functionality, sound or any other functionality. The screen has a very fast horizontal roll with blurry vertical "lines". I posted a video link to youtube in either the 4th or 5th message in this thread if that helps to give you a better idea of what is happening. On another site, a member made a comment about a similar issue being power related.


Thank you for the solid information about the battery pack/diode solution as well as the information about the capacitor and diode. I did do a double check continuity for C11 again and am getting a 630mV reading, I suppose I just did not have a good enough contact. Not sure if it is up to par or not though.


As far as the battery itself, it showed no signs of leakage at all but is completely dead. In the past I cleaned PCB with 99.9% isopropyl alcohol and or used the water method with a toothbrush, and as you say, let it thoroughly dry before testing.


I have a few more things to go with for now and will post back soon with my findings/photos.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 12, 2015, 03:35:04 PM

But that stuff you are seeing around C30 may be from the nearby part that appears to be missing, C34??, and not from C30 itself. If this is where the battery was mounted then all that corrosion is likely from the leaking battery and C30 may be ok internally, just has appearance damage but would still work ok. Or is C34 installed but not taking up all the room allocated to it on the board? Can't tell from photo.


Forgot to mention that the empty looking space for C34 is reserved for the battery. Battery is installed, it just does not require the full space reserved for it.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 13, 2015, 12:32:47 AM
Sir, I have good news and bad news for you.

The good news is that you have the earliest, and by the far the simplest, of the CalOmega machines; and that you have knowledge of, and experience with, recalcitrant “earlier “ computers.

Your machine was built in CalOmega’s early amusement-only arcade gameperiod,
years before the CEI name and the many uprevs required to enter the Nevada-style gaming market.
Such uprevs included enhanced memory for game history and dispute resolution, and the ability to operate coin-payout hopper mechanisms. Any gaming machine will have a 910- or later backplane (yours is a 908 with no Hopper output), and at least a 904 game board (which is your 903 with the memory chip pads replaced with pads to accept a small piggyback memory-chip board)

There is no separate power supply; that simple circuit is built into the backplane.

CalOmega documentation is as scarce as hen’s teeth, but I have a chopped-up old
copy of the 903 schematic, and a partial block diagram. Given the simplicity of the system, with this documentation and your experience, you should be able to trace & fix any problems.

I am unable to post these docs on NLG for some (grumble grumble) reason, but if you want them, PM me and I’ll email them to you.

On the other hand, there are folks you can mail the board(s) to who will fix them for a reasonable price, or even replace them.

The bad news is that your software is both incomplete and incorrect.

ALL CalOmega chip sets of this era are 5 in number; even in the most unlikely case that you had a unique 4-chip set, they would certainly not be numbered 2 thru 5, rather than 1 through 4.  Further, they would not be installed in the board beginning with U6, whereas U5 (labelled 1800) is the #1 Eprom slot. Missing 1/5 of the software, especially the primary or “base” chip, could easily explain your problems.

And, you have a Double-Up machine. Your software is labelled Poker, Game 7.6, which is the very first CalOmega draw poker game, released in August 1981. It does not have the DoubleUp feature; DoubleUp poker was introduced with Game
15.7, in January 1983. I’d be curious to know the manufacture date of your machine.

I’m guessing someone “borrowed” your chip set to fix another machine, and dumped an older set on your board. That replacement set could have been a partial, or it could have been complete, then later Chip #1 was pulled to fix yet another machine. It is not unusual for the #1 chip of these early software sets to be identical; and most of these machines were owned by route operators who bought them by the 6-pack and whose primary interest was keeping the most popular machines running in live venues.

At any rate, without complete and correct software, no matter how good the hardware is, your machine is just a pretty box.

But be of good cheer! There is yet hope!

First, the MAME folks have uploaded most of the early CalOmega Eproms,. and I’m pretty sure 15.7 (your probable game) is included. It is possible that you or someone else on NLG can burn it to the appropriate ancient Eproms for you.

Second, I happen to possess a full 5-chip set of 15.7. I do not know if they are functional, as I do not have an appropriate machine in which to test them. They ARE NOT FOR SALE, but I would be willing to LEND them to a fellow NLG’er.
If they fix all, or many, of your problems, I’m sure they can be duplicated.

Please post responses to this thread on NLG, as others in the future may find it helpful; but PM me with your email address if you want the docs I offered.

And please forgive the tardiness of this response and the lateness of the hour: my life is somewhat complex at the moment. You have shortrackskater to thank for getting my attention: he’s the kind of guy NLG is all about.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 13, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
Sir, I have good news and bad news for you.

The good news is that you have the earliest, and by the far the simplest, of the CalOmega machines; and that you have knowledge of, and experience with, recalcitrant “earlier “ computers.

Your machine was built in CalOmega’s early amusement-only arcade gameperiod,
years before the CEI name and the many uprevs required to enter the Nevada-style gaming market.
Such uprevs included enhanced memory for game history and dispute resolution, and the ability to operate coin-payout hopper mechanisms. Any gaming machine will have a 910- or later backplane (yours is a 908 with no Hopper output), and at least a 904 game board (which is your 903 with the memory chip pads replaced with pads to accept a small piggyback memory-chip board)

There is no separate power supply; that simple circuit is built into the backplane.

CalOmega documentation is as scarce as hen’s teeth, but I have a chopped-up old
copy of the 903 schematic, and a partial block diagram. Given the simplicity of the system, with this documentation and your experience, you should be able to trace & fix any problems.

I am unable to post these docs on NLG for some (grumble grumble) reason, but if you want them, PM me and I’ll email them to you.

On the other hand, there are folks you can mail the board(s) to who will fix them for a reasonable price, or even replace them.

The bad news is that your software is both incomplete and incorrect.

ALL CalOmega chip sets of this era are 5 in number; even in the most unlikely case that you had a unique 4-chip set, they would certainly not be numbered 2 thru 5, rather than 1 through 4.  Further, they would not be installed in the board beginning with U6, whereas U5 (labelled 1800) is the #1 Eprom slot. Missing 1/5 of the software, especially the primary or “base” chip, could easily explain your problems.

And, you have a Double-Up machine. Your software is labelled Poker, Game 7.6, which is the very first CalOmega draw poker game, released in August 1981. It does not have the DoubleUp feature; DoubleUp poker was introduced with Game
15.7, in January 1983. I’d be curious to know the manufacture date of your machine.

I’m guessing someone “borrowed” your chip set to fix another machine, and dumped an older set on your board. That replacement set could have been a partial, or it could have been complete, then later Chip #1 was pulled to fix yet another machine. It is not unusual for the #1 chip of these early software sets to be identical; and most of these machines were owned by route operators who bought them by the 6-pack and whose primary interest was keeping the most popular machines running in live venues.

At any rate, without complete and correct software, no matter how good the hardware is, your machine is just a pretty box.

But be of good cheer! There is yet hope!

First, the MAME folks have uploaded most of the early CalOmega Eproms,. and I’m pretty sure 15.7 (your probable game) is included. It is possible that you or someone else on NLG can burn it to the appropriate ancient Eproms for you.

Second, I happen to possess a full 5-chip set of 15.7. I do not know if they are functional, as I do not have an appropriate machine in which to test them. They ARE NOT FOR SALE, but I would be willing to LEND them to a fellow NLG’er.
If they fix all, or many, of your problems, I’m sure they can be duplicated.

Please post responses to this thread on NLG, as others in the future may find it helpful; but PM me with your email address if you want the docs I offered.

And please forgive the tardiness of this response and the lateness of the hour: my life is somewhat complex at the moment. You have shortrackskater to thank for getting my attention: he’s the kind of guy NLG is all about.


Thank you very much for all of the information and assistance! You have confirmed what I have been suspecting all along about the EPROM's, I had hoped otherwise, but it is what it is.


As for the Manufacturing date, the cabinet sticker shows: 06/28/1982 Attached Image.


Sticker Reads:


OMEGA PRODUCTS
Model No: PKA
Serial No: 5783
Date: 06/28/82


If the information that you are providing is accurate as far as the initial release for "Double Up" feature in Jan of 1983, this may be a "Frankensystem" with old EPROM and a newer header and an older Cabinet.


Also attached is a better image for reading the meters, because I am having a difficult time capturing a clear image I'll type it out as well.


To Read Meter:

1: Push and Release Red Button in Coin Box Door.

2: Push the Discard Buttons in the Following Order: 1, 4, 2, 5, 5, 3

3: To Clear Meter Readings, Push the Discard Buttons in the Following Order: 1, 3, 2, 5, 4, 2

4: To Return to Game Mode, Simultaneously Push Down Discard Buttons 1, 2, and 3 (all at the same time) and then release.


This seems to be a [blink]FAQ[/blink] and has a little more info than what I have been able to locate anywhere else, hope it helps someone.


SolidSilver, I will PM you on your offer for the schematics/manual that you do have and further discuss the possibility of obtaining new game EPROM's.


On another side note I would like to address the Dip Switch settings. The photo that I added in an earlier post shows SW1 with ALL switches in the OFF position which I have found to be consistent with other similar/same machines while MY SW2 originally had DIP 1, 3, 5, 7 and 8 in the ON position and DIP 2, 4 and 6 in the OFF position.


While troubleshooting, I found that most other machines only had DIP 1 and 3 in the on position and the rest were off. I just wanted/needed to clarify that with everyone.


In any respect, I would like to thank everyone thus far for their contributions in helping me and others out with this machine type.


If anyone out there needs more photos or readings, settings let me know and I will contribute what I can.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 13, 2015, 05:17:49 PM
You said that your display was rolling from side to side, like the horiz hold or sync isn't working. In spite of that, can you push the buttons and get it to deal cards, does it accept coins and give credits? If so that means it is booting and running, just has a display problem.
That or the graphics chips. It it coins up and you get the sounds of the deal ... chances are the graphics chips are where you want to start. Your getting the raster on the monitor and I am thinking the RGB is there as well. I dont feel you should adjust the guns on the neck. Get a signal to the monitor and then think about those adjustments. Is your monitor a G07?
[size=78%]Dave F[/size]
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 13, 2015, 05:29:14 PM
As you get the manual and eprom software chips straightened out I'd make sure about all the power supply voltages. That is a basic thing that has to be right. If you don't have a meter they are available for less than $10 from places like Lowe's, Home Depot, Harbor Freight, etc. They are fairly easy to use and can help you to eliminate things to wonder about if they are working. When you check the voltages write down what they measure so you can tell the experts here and get advice if they are incorrect.

The fluorescent lights in the machine simply run off the 115 vac that comes in from the line cord and they usually don't require much to repair, just a lamp, starter and ballast. If a machine's fluorescent lights come on that still doesn't mean the power supply is ok because those lamps don't use the lower voltages from the power supply. Things like the circuit boards and pushbutton lamps use the voltages created by the power supply. That information should be in the manual you are getting.

The person where you bought the machine, might they be helpful on parts such as the eprom software or other items? They may have other Cal-Omega machines that they are scrapping out or taking parts out of.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 13, 2015, 05:39:43 PM
You said that your display was rolling from side to side, like the horiz hold or sync isn't working. In spite of that, can you push the buttons and get it to deal cards, does it accept coins and give credits? If so that means it is booting and running, just has a display problem.
That or the graphics chips. It it coins up and you get the sounds of the deal ... chances are the graphics chips are where you want to start. Your getting the raster on the monitor and I am thinking the RGB is there as well. I dont feel you should adjust the guns on the neck. Get a signal to the monitor and then think about those adjustments. Is your monitor a G07?
[size=78%]Dave F[/size]


Thanks for the advice, but no boot, no sound, nothing audible when using the coin-op. I am pretty certain that SolidSilver has confirmed what I suspected from the get go. Missing EPROM #1, and as SolidSilver pointed out, it is not the correct version for the machine either not to say an older complete set would not work.


I sent him (SolidSilver) a pm to see how much it may cost to get his valid EPROM's burned into new EPROM's for me. If it is financially too expensive or too much hassle I will likely pass, especially with there being no guarantee of it getting the machine up and running. I may have to consider it as a parts machine or list it for sale as is and present the information that we have come up with here as reference for the potential buyer. May convert it into a MAME machine with an old dell laptop that I have here and run the original game.


Without having a valid set of EPROM's, the project is on hold.


For the time being, I put the machine back together and am awaiting a reply.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 13, 2015, 05:41:50 PM
What type eproms does it use, can you read the ic manufacturer's part number on the back of one, like a 2716 or 2732 or similar?

This guy sells a lot of eproms for a fair price, he even has older ones, but you may have to buy more than you need, so ebay might be a better source. But this will give an idea on cost for the eprom itself. Whoever makes the eproms for you can probably take care of getting the blank chips.

http://www.epromman.com/ (http://www.epromman.com/)

What might be real handy would be to send your mpu board to someone that has a working Cal-Omega machine and see if it works ok.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 13, 2015, 05:52:21 PM
As you get the manual and eprom software chips straightened out I'd make sure about all the power supply voltages. That is a basic thing that has to be right. If you don't have a meter they are available for less than $10 from places like Lowe's, Home Depot, Harbor Freight, etc. They are fairly easy to use and can help you to eliminate things to wonder about if they are working. When you check the voltages write down what they measure so you can tell the experts here and get advice if they are incorrect.

The fluorescent lights in the machine simply run off the 115 vac that comes in from the line cord and they usually don't require much to repair, just a lamp, starter and ballast. If a machine's fluorescent lights come on that still doesn't mean the power supply is ok because those lamps don't use the lower voltages from the power supply. Things like the circuit boards and pushbutton lamps use the voltages created by the power supply. That information should be in the manual you are getting.

The person where you bought the machine, might they be helpful on parts such as the eprom software or other items? They may have other Cal-Omega machines that they are scrapping out or taking parts out of.


I have a couple good multimeter here that I have been testing with but am awaiting the manual for proper reference. The person that I purchased the machine from does not normally deal with anything solid state and does not have access to any other parts, he primarily works on old school pinballs. Only one of the 50w florescent bulbs work. I tested the other ballast's and they work as well. Have not tested the power output with the multi yet.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 13, 2015, 08:54:52 PM
What might be real handy would be to send your mpu board to someone that has a working Cal-Omega machine and see if it works ok.


If I had the option to do this locally at low to no charge, it would be an excellent option and suggestion. I am hard pressed to spend a bunch of money I do not have for a maybe.


I am considering, not for sure, but maybe trying to erase and re-flash the four eproms that I have here on a diy breadboard system that would need to be configured with a pc. Hummm  :Scratch-Head: ... I have a couple things for alternative but would prefer the original dedicated system if at all possible.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 13, 2015, 09:36:13 PM
Dormi is the person here that really knows the CEI machines. He repairs the boards, and possiblie could help with software, but I'm not 100% sure if he can. You could try send him a PM stating you have a board to check and that its possiblie missing software. It's worth a shot..

Gary
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 14, 2015, 02:27:01 PM
Rick, I emailed you the 903 schematic & block diagram.
Your eproms are likely either 2516 or 2532; mine are the latter.
Either chip is dirt cheap on eBay, new and used. Anywhere from $2 to $5 each.

There's gotta be someone on NLG who can dupe these eproms; hello out there?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 14, 2015, 05:14:44 PM
SolidSilver .... hope I am not intruding but I have been looking for info on a 904 board. It has the chipset for just the Jacks or better poker. I dont have sound and no paperwork. I need to check my 12 volts if I remember right that is what drives the audio. Is there any chance you have info on that board and any other paperwork associated with it? Also how easy is it to update it to a double up game?
Thanks for your time and efforts.
Dave F
The Fatman
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 14, 2015, 05:52:36 PM
Rick, I emailed you the 903 schematic & block diagram.
Your eproms are likely either 2516 or 2532; mine are the latter.
Either chip is dirt cheap on eBay, new and used. Anywhere from $2 to $5 each.

There's gotta be someone on NLG who can dupe these eproms; hello out there?

Jim or anyone else!
I have a couple different version 906 turbo boards. They both work in my CEI that uses the 904 normally. But the basic poker games DO WORK on my machine, although the buttons don't match the screen on some. That's fixable in a way by just changing the stickers on the buttons. 
Do you thing this would work in RPM's machine? It should I think.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 14, 2015, 06:07:19 PM
I am not educated on these machines at all. This is my first and only cntact I have had since I played them when I drove a tractor trailer in the south back in the mid 1980's
I think he said he has a 903 board. I dont know if the pinout is the same for the 904. If you feel that the turbo board you have will plug and play in a 904 cabinet, I could be interested in it. I also would like to get the sound to work in mine. I guess I will just poke around and check the PS and speaker before I do anything else.
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 14, 2015, 06:29:31 PM
Fatman, the 903 and 904 boards are identical; the only difference is that the 903 had a small game history memory chip, and the 904 has pads for a small piggyback board carrying a much larger memory chip. This expanded memory was a requirement for Nevada gaming machines. The circuit and physical pinout are the same, and they are interchangeable. PM me, and I'll email you a schematic of the 904. I have no docs on the backplane, which is where the fairly simple power supply circuit is located; it's not difficult to trace power on it.

906 board might work, enough to tell you if your problem is on the main game board or not; but it will probably not work correctly: the wiring to the pushbuttons will be different.

Similarly, upgrading to the DoubleUp feature depends on your machine: if you have the older 10-button unit running a 903 or 904 board,
you can't: DoubleUp feature requires an additional row of buttons. If you have a 15-button machine, easy-Peasy; or if you have a much later machine built for 906 or 906 Turbo board, DoubleUp will run with the 10-button panel.

Pics of the machine, and interior, (does it have a payout hopper?) and boards, would help us identify what you have, and perhaps provide more help.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 14, 2015, 06:45:24 PM
Model # in CEI CO1cr and it does have a payout hopper, unlike the double ups in the truck stops in SC.
I will send you a PM with my contact info and than you so very much for the help.
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 15, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
Rick, I emailed you the 903 schematic & block diagram.
Your eproms are likely either 2516 or 2532; mine are the latter.
Either chip is dirt cheap on eBay, new and used. Anywhere from $2 to $5 each.

There's gotta be someone on NLG who can dupe these eproms; hello out there?


Greatly appreciated! I have been busy with other things for the past couple of days but I have briefly reviewed the schematics. I'll post an update over the next few days if I have made any further progress.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 15, 2015, 01:10:10 PM
And in the meantime, I'm going through my old dusty drawers, and those of some friends, looking for other CalOmega chips.
Might be a week or so, but we'll see. If successful, I cannot believe a full chip set, even if we need to buy new blanks, would cost
you more than $50.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 15, 2015, 05:23:01 PM
Jim would my game chips from my 904 work? I have a chip burner...
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 15, 2015, 07:48:32 PM
Shorty, the answer is absolutely, positively.....maybe  :Scratch-Head:

It may be that a complete set of virtually any early software would bring the machine to life, enough to tell him what else, if, needs fixing; but it would not likely operate properly on his physical unit. I'd really like to get him software that would actually work in his machine.

He has an arcade machine with the 12-button panel; it requires arcade DoubleUp draw poker software to work properly.
I'm not all that familiar with the early arcade machines and, comparing his machine manufactured date with the gaming software I'm familiar with, it would seem his machine originally had a DoubleUp capability earlier than the gaming version.

I'm working on it with another friendly NLG'er, but let me ask you: can you burn...
     1. Those old 2532 chips, which require special burn voltages?
     2. From a software file, as opposed to copying a chip set?

If the answer to both is YES, there may be 2 NLG'ers  I can involve.

And as our numbers grow, we will rule the world!  >:D   Bwaaaa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

(Oops, gotta back off on that Porto...)


Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 16, 2015, 06:22:00 AM
The blue upright Omega Double Up machines, I saw mostly in truck stops across the south. The operator was able to clear credits and pay off the winner.
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 16, 2015, 12:31:23 PM
Jim would my game chips from my 904 work? I have a chip burner...


Shortstackskater,


Do you happen to know the eprom revision?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 16, 2015, 02:06:14 PM
Is there a difference in the game chips from the smaller up right casino machines and the larger arcade style cabinets? I have the smaller game size. It has a 904 board. I don't remember what the EPROM stickers said? It's out in the garage waiting for repairs. It has a monitor chassis problem. My screens all washed out, but I card see the cards. The board must have a problem because my middle button won't hold the card. It was like that in a different cabinet I use to have too, no middle button.   
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 16, 2015, 04:38:01 PM
Two things determine which chipsets will work in which machines.

1. the Game Board. Virtually all the old machines use 903/904. A very few, like Keno machines, use the rare 905 board.

2. The machine's button layout. The standard poker layout is 10 buttons. Double-Up machines,  have 12 (arcade) or 14 (gaming)buttons, as Double-Up requires 4 special buttons: Take, Double, High, Low. But then, there are some with 15 or 8..... :Scratch-Head:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 16, 2015, 06:18:21 PM
Well, DANG!!!  I just saw a screenshot on a website that has nothing to do with us NLG'ers.
It's an alleged screenshot of the 7.6 game arcade game, showing the DoubleUp option!!!
Pic attached.

RPM, you may just be in luck, and I may just be able to add some serious new info about CalOmega software.

Working on a way now  to get you a complete set of clean 7.6 eproms.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 16, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
Well, DANG!!!  I just saw a screenshot on a website that has nothing to do with us NLG'ers.
It's an alleged screenshot of the 7.6 game arcade game, showing the DoubleUp option!!!
Pic attached.

RPM, you may just be in luck, and I may just be able to add some serious new info about CalOmega software.

Working on a way now  to get you a complete set of clean 7.6 eproms.


Funny thing SolidSilver, I was just typing this message with the information you have also found. I downloaded a new version of mame and the Cal-Omega 7.6 rom. Looks to be the same game burned into my cabinet crt screen lol.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 16, 2015, 06:39:38 PM
Working on a way now  to get you a complete set of clean 7.6 eproms.


That would be EXCELLENT!
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 17, 2015, 12:23:44 AM
Well, DANG!!!  I just saw a screenshot on a website that has nothing to do with us NLG'ers.
It's an alleged screenshot of the 7.6 game arcade game, showing the DoubleUp option!!!
Pic attached.

RPM, you may just be in luck, and I may just be able to add some serious new info about CalOmega software.

Working on a way now  to get you a complete set of clean 7.6 eproms.

Funny thing SolidSilver, I was just typing this message with the information you have also found. I downloaded a new version of mame and the Cal-Omega 7.6 rom. Looks to be the same game burned into my cabinet crt screen lol.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 17, 2015, 06:27:54 AM
Well, DANG!!!  I just saw a screenshot on a website that has nothing to do with us NLG'ers.
It's an alleged screenshot of the 7.6 game arcade game, showing the DoubleUp option!!!
Pic attached.

RPM, you may just be in luck, and I may just be able to add some serious new info about CalOmega software.

Working on a way now  to get you a complete set of clean 7.6 eproms.

Funny thing SolidSilver, I was just typing this message with the information you have also found. I downloaded a new version of mame and the Cal-Omega 7.6 rom. Looks to be the same game burned into my cabinet crt screen lol.


For whatever reason, I tried to edit that post and it came up with that super micro font size both times.

In any respect, it does appear that the 7.6 arcade version from 1981 of Double Up Poker by Cal Omega is the correct EPROM version for this machine. Although, the MAME dump files/ROM created from original 7.6 files are missing the "low" feature when using double up on a winning hand.

Pretty cool experience going through some vintage arcade history and as a team we are all figuring this and other machines out together!
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 17, 2015, 09:37:16 AM
Sometimes the text in a comment gets shrunk to a tiny size by the system here. For whatever reason it will embed a font size command and that is what changes it. You can click on Modify in the upper right corner of your message to edit it. Then look for any font size commands, they will be enclosed in square brackets, like this:  [size=xxpt]

Just delete any such commands that are enclosed in square brackets, then save your message and it should go back to normal size.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 17, 2015, 09:48:37 AM
Jim would my game chips from my 904 work? I have a chip burner...


Shortstackskater,


Do you happen to know the eprom revision?

I'll still check on this as well... :yes:   soon as I get home this afternoon.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on November 18, 2015, 12:36:23 AM
OH CRAP!!![size=18pt][/size]
RPM, my sincere apologies. I am putting up my CEI machines, and all parts & boards, for sale;
and I am retiring from the NLG forum, specifically as Moderator of the CEI area.
I shot off my mouth about something I did not really know; and have sent you & everyone else down the wrong path.

I've just looked over all the MAME arcade CalOmega game eprom files, something I've never done as we
are basically gaming-machine folks.

What to my chagrin, virtually every early CalOmega arcade eprom set, including 7.6, contains only FOUR roms;
and they are all numbered U6 (2) through U9 (5). Therefore, RPM's machine has a correct and complete eprom set.

Since these eproms are quite solid and almost impossible to screw up, I would say the problem does not lie in them.

RPM, again, please accept my sincere apologies. I simply made assumptions, from all subsequent CEI gaming software.
It never occurred to me that CalOmega could possibly be so damn obstreperous, let alone plain stupid.

But their stupidity trumps my arrogance.
Sincere apologies to all,

SolidSilver
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 18, 2015, 12:54:24 AM
Well if you're retiring from NLG then I better just shoot myself since I know WAY LESS about these things than you do !
Should I still check my EPROMs or are we tossing this thread in the sh*tcan?
Or should we all just drink some more wine and press on?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 18, 2015, 09:15:07 AM
OH CRAP!!![size=18pt]
RPM, my sincere apologies. I am putting up my CEI machines, and all parts & boards, for sale;
and I am retiring from the NLG forum, specifically as Moderator of the CEI area.
I shot off my mouth about something I did not really know; and have sent you & everyone else down the wrong path.

I've just looked over all the MAME arcade CalOmega game eprom files, something I've never done as we
are basically gaming-machine folks.

What to my chagrin, virtually every early CalOmega arcade eprom set, including 7.6, contains only FOUR roms;
and they are all numbered U6 (2) through U9 (5). Therefore, RPM's machine has a correct and complete eprom set.

Since these eproms are quite solid and almost impossible to screw up, I would say the problem does not lie in them.

RPM, again, please accept my sincere apologies. I simply made assumptions, from all subsequent CEI gaming software.
It never occurred to me that CalOmega could possibly be so damn obstreperous, let alone plain stupid.

But their stupidity trumps my arrogance.
Sincere apologies to all,

SolidSilver


Well this is a game changer, no pun intended.


Well if you're retiring from NLG then I better just shoot myself since I know WAY LESS about these things than you do !
Should I still check my EPROMs or are we tossing this thread in the sh*tcan?
Or should we all just drink some more wine and press on?


This thread, is NOT fit for the "shi*can" by far... [blink]If nothing else, it has brought clarification to the differences between Cal-Omega Arcade and Casino variation cabinets...[/blink]


SolidSilver, I must insist that you reconsider your decision of retirement as I am almost certain that the valid information you have provided through the years by far outweighs oversights that you and others were not aware of until now.


Although I am new to the forums, we have made some substantial forward moving discoveries not just for my machine, but everyone else who may have encountered the same or similar issues.


IMHO, there should be a sticky thread created stating the differences between Arcade and Casino style games discovered thus far. Something for reference and historical data. Include the MAME dumps as reference.


My primary issue(s) with this machine still persist. That was the original intention of creating this thread and I still require assistance with coming to resolution. Now that we have concluded the game set is complete, it is time to move on to the next steps. I do not give up that easy, and I do not intend for this to be YET ANOTHER DEAD THREAD, sorely sought out on the internet to have no resolution and or follow up by the creator, being me in this instance.


If I find that I am unable to fix, or it is financially not feasible or decide to just sell the machine, I will post a follow up.


SolidSilver, I humbly accept your apologies, but do not drop everything without at least making the sticky You have been most inviting and helpful to your fullest capacity and I and may I be so bold to say others find this approach to be quite refreshing compared to MANY other on-line communities. We all make mistakes, but it is sincerely appreciated that you addressed the misinformation provided.


Sincerely,


Rick.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 18, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
I think, hope he was just kidding! I don't really want to sh*tcan this. Too many people are contributing to it and you ARE MAKING PROGRESS regardless of incorrect information or not.

THAT'S HOW WE ALL LEARN AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE HELPING EACH OTHER.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 18, 2015, 09:46:52 AM
...
My primary issue(s) with this machine still persist. That was the original intention of creating this thread and I still require assistance with coming to resolution. Now that we have concluded the game set is complete, it is time to move on to the next steps. I do not give up that easy, and I do not intend for this to be YET ANOTHER DEAD THREAD, sorely sought out on the internet to have no resolution and or follow up by the creator, being me in this instance.
...

That's a commendable outlook and I agree with it. There will be setbacks and surprises now and then, that's just life. And there are so many variations of these old machines that no one can be expected to be aware of every single nuance. That's one of the reasons NLG exists, to have ideas from a variety of people that help arrive at a solution. I've made my share of mistakes or goofs, I just had to smile about it and learn from the experience. It is part of the risk just about every time one of us attempts to help someone else, our suggestions or advice can lead down the wrong road.

SolidSilver- don't worry about this, it was just an oversight about something you didn't know existed. No one expects you or anyone else here to have 100% absolute knowledge about all aspects on these things. 

RPM-
So, if your machine mpu board has a complete set of software eproms, and the software in them is correct for the machine, then you try to figure out what other problems there are. Did you verify that the various voltages are correct? From reading other message threads I think there are 4 voltages on the CalOmega that are important. Here is what I read:

   4 voltages have to be present for the game to work, regulated 5 volts, regulated 12 volts (for 905 board measure at ground and left side R74), unregulated 12 volts (measure across C3), and 15VAC (measure across MOV CR25).  Confirm that R56 is full clockwise.  If all 5 things are good your board is bad.  Coinslots manuals are fine but probably don't have what you are looking for like schematics, wiring, or parts info 

There is also a Cal Omega Test rom that can be installed into your mpu board. It is used by techs and others to help determine what is and is not working. It might be something to consider trying.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 18, 2015, 09:53:10 AM
I think, hope he was just kidding! I don't really want to sh*tcan this. Too many people are contributing to it and you ARE MAKING PROGRESS regardless of incorrect information or not.

THAT'S HOW WE ALL LEARN AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE HELPING EACH OTHER.


Agreed.


Consider this, we are working with technological dinosaurs where information is scarce to say the least. It would be a crying shame to loose one of it's most valuable contributors to something that should be looked at as a learning experience for all rather than a catastrophic failure.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 18, 2015, 10:46:34 AM
Should I still check my EPROMs or are we tossing this thread in the sh*tcan?
If your machine is easy to get to and not much trouble to pull the mpu I'd like to see photos of it and the backplane board. There seems to be a lot of variation on these Cal Omega/CEI machines so it could be helpful seeing yours. Do you think your machine is one of the later models? Did you have to do software chip replacement or any board repairs when you got it?


Or should we all just drink some more wine and press on?
I'd say that is ALWAYS an option!   :garfield:

<not a wine drinker myself, but a cold beer or margarita is a different story,
especially when delivered by someone interesting>
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 18, 2015, 11:18:32 AM
I have problems sometimes remember the wrong info. But I am able to let itgdo, since I fall in the group that is entitled to ...."Senior Moments"
It has taken a long time to get here and now that I have arrived..... I now have a forgivable excuse.
TheFatman
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 18, 2015, 04:21:39 PM
O.K. It's been an eventful day, busy day AND the Poker Machine has been moved into the rec-room located in the basement from the outside workshop, my back is sore... It's starting too get a little cold out there and it was time to get the machine in here for further troubleshooting and diagnostics.


I still feel we made huge progress today finding out the Arcade version only requires 4 game chips and not the five. Cal-Omega labelling their eproms 7.6.2-7.6.5 may have been a clever way of making "us" think there was something missing. As stated in my first post, that was an initial assumption (missing chip). In any respect, this makes me feel pretty good about the present situation as it is now one less thing to consider and one less thing that needs money and time put into the machine (THANKFUL FOR THAT!).


I have not yet tested the power output but am feeling more and more it is a likely issue.


I am exhausted at the moment as I was out running the chainsaw, hauling wood, had a big fire and moved the machine. I'll return either tomorrow or later tonight if I get the ambition to testing and post my results.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 18, 2015, 06:52:04 PM
Keep on keepin on .... good luck.
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 19, 2015, 10:16:50 AM
Should I still check my EPROMs or are we tossing this thread in the sh*tcan?
If your machine is easy to get to and not much trouble to pull the mpu I'd like to see photos of it and the backplane board. There seems to be a lot of variation on these Cal Omega/CEI machines so it could be helpful seeing yours. Do you think your machine is one of the later models? Did you have to do software chip replacement or any board repairs when you got it?

Ok well I've lead everyone done the wrong path too! Well not really. I thought I had a 904 board. I sent my original board to member Dormi a few years ago for repair. I have a 906III board - (Version 51.08) But the board isn't not the "turbo" version which was the multiple game (I have two of those that work on my machine, sort of). I'm fairly certain I originally had a 904 board but I may just be losing my mind. OR I may just be human and and not an expert here.
Moving along...here's a shot of my eproms and, soon as I get home from this ridiculously high end mall where I get coffee each morning, I'll shoot a picture of the back panel. 
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 10:36:41 AM
Looks like you've got the whole mall to yourself,
or did you just tell everyone to move out of the photo?  And how was that $8 cup of coffee?   :wave:

PS> Thanks! for the photos, I'm accumulating some learnin', one day at a time.

The labels on your game eproms say "2764A" and your mpu board looks much newer than many of the other CEI/Cal Omega machines discussed here.  I guess that is due to being a 906 board. Maybe you have one of the more recently made machines, or it did have a 904 board when you got it and you replaced it with this newer one.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 19, 2015, 12:15:04 PM
I think I had the 904 board but that was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before I was contributing anything here. I may have the old board somewhere... I'll poke around. The current board was the one Dormi sent me, years back...and it works just as the original.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
...
My primary issue(s) with this machine still persist. That was the original intention of creating this thread and I still require assistance with coming to resolution. Now that we have concluded the game set is complete, it is time to move on to the next steps. I do not give up that easy, and I do not intend for this to be YET ANOTHER DEAD THREAD, sorely sought out on the internet to have no resolution and or follow up by the creator, being me in this instance.
...

That's a commendable outlook and I agree with it. There will be setbacks and surprises now and then, that's just life. And there are so many variations of these old machines that no one can be expected to be aware of every single nuance. That's one of the reasons NLG exists, to have ideas from a variety of people that help arrive at a solution. I've made my share of mistakes or goofs, I just had to smile about it and learn from the experience. It is part of the risk just about every time one of us attempts to help someone else, our suggestions or advice can lead down the wrong road.

SolidSilver- don't worry about this, it was just an oversight about something you didn't know existed. No one expects you or anyone else here to have 100% absolute knowledge about all aspects on these things. 

RPM-
So, if your machine mpu board has a complete set of software eproms, and the software in them is correct for the machine, then you try to figure out what other problems there are. Did you verify that the various voltages are correct? From reading other message threads I think there are 4 voltages on the CalOmega that are important. Here is what I read:

   4 voltages have to be present for the game to work, regulated 5 volts, regulated 12 volts (for 905 board measure at ground and left side R74), unregulated 12 volts (measure across C3), and 15VAC (measure across MOV CR25).  Confirm that R56 is full clockwise.  If all 5 things are good your board is bad.  Coinslots manuals are fine but probably don't have what you are looking for like schematics, wiring, or parts info 

There is also a Cal Omega Test rom that can be installed into your mpu board. It is used by techs and others to help determine what is and is not working. It might be something to consider trying.


rokgpsman or anyone else out there that can advise where/what points on my 908 motherboard do I test for voltages. If I am not mistaken, black goes on ground then I need to know the test points. If I am correct, I would need to test on the motherboard and not the mpu?


I checked the reference points in the quoted reply that rokgpsman posted from another point on the 903 mpu but I do not believe they are the same as the 905 referred.


I did solder a new 3.7v battery in place of the original 3.6v and hoped that it would be a simple, fix but no dice.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 04:17:53 PM
yes, from reading thru other threads I believe the power supply voltages are measured on the motherboard (backplane) board but can also be done on the mpu. I'll see if I can find some info on where to measure them, in the mean time maybe someone that knows already will chime in with the info.

I'm posting your motherboard photo again here to make it easier for anyone to help point out where to measure the power supply voltages.

EDIT- I found a schematic drawing for a Cal Omega motherboard but it doesn't match yours exactly. It is for the 911 motherboard, which I think is not the same as yours. Which motherboard do you have?

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 05:01:02 PM
yes, I believe the power supply voltages are best measured on the motherboard (backplane) board. I'll see if I can find some info on where to measure them, in the mean time maybe someone that knows already will chime in with the info.

I'm posting your motherboard photo again here to make it easier for anyone to help point out where to measure the power supply voltages.

EDIT-

The 5 volts dc can be measure across the capacitor C4, the big black body capacitor mounted vertically. The lower end is ground connection. This is a good ground to use for measuring the other DC voltages but for AC voltages you will need to use the AC common. The +5 vdc is used to power most of the ic's.


I tested the ac voltages by grounding to the power cable ground and placed the positive to each fuse with different measurements, I did not write the measurements, butt can do it again if required/requested. Also tested the ac output for the fan, crt and lights with 120vac-130vac.

I have a 908 Motherboard.

Here's some additional backplain/motherboard photos:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 05:11:20 PM
I saw "908" written on your motherboard in one of your photos. Maybe someone has the wiring drawing for it. The 911 motherboard schematic I have has some similarities but the differences make it harder to know where to measure the essential voltages.

Below are your photos with my notes showing where I think you can measure voltages. Not sure on this, let me know what you get. Be careful about letting the meter probe slip and shorting out something. And remember there is 115vac on that motherboard, watch where you put your hands.

I'll be adding to this post if I figure anything else out that I'm at least somewhat ok with saying.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 19, 2015, 05:33:28 PM
By the looks of the corrosion on the transformer and other parts, machine could have been in an ocean / beach setting. I would definitely at least look at the large connector from the transformer to make sure the pins in the connector dont have a similar corrosion on them and they will meet the pins from the board well. Most of the time i have the opinion of " when in doubt, remove the connector pins and stretch them out so they will make contact and visually look good , then re-install" That way you know they are good and not iffy.

Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 05:54:55 PM
By the looks of the corrosion on the transformer and other parts, machine could have been in an ocean / beach setting. I would definitely at least look at the large connector from the transformer to make sure the pins in the connector dont have a similar corrosion on them and they will meet the pins from the board well. Most of the time i have the opinion of " when in doubt, remove the connector pins and stretch them out so they will make contact and visually look good , then re-install" That way you know they are good and not iffy.

Dave F

Agreed, the contacts inside any of the plastic connector housings could be tarnished, corroded or oxidized. Something to check on for sure.

When I first read your comment I thought you said "from the looks of the transformer the machine could have been in the ocean....".

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 06:02:05 PM
By the looks of the corrosion on the transformer and other parts, machine could have been in an ocean / beach setting. I would definitely at least look at the large connector from the transformer to make sure the pins in the connector dont have a similar corrosion on them and they will meet the pins from the board well. Most of the time i have the opinion of " when in doubt, remove the connector pins and stretch them out so they will make contact and visually look good , then re-install" That way you know they are good and not iffy.

Dave F


I pulled every connector and re-seated a couple of times. You are absolutely correct about the ocean setting, I live in Nova Scotia Canada, an East Coast Province with the Atlantic Ocean all around us.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 06:04:17 PM
When I first read your comment I thought you said "from the looks of the transformer the machine could have been in the ocean....".


 :I_agree_1:


My mind processed it the same way when I first read it lol
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 19, 2015, 06:06:31 PM


When I first read your comment I thought you said "from the looks of the transformer the machine could have been in the ocean....".



I once had a Bally EM slot from Atlantic City NJ that would have probably been in better shape if it was in the ocean.
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 06:27:11 PM
.....
I once had a Bally EM slot from Atlantic City NJ that would have probably been in better shape if it was in the ocean.
Dave F

So that's what they mean when they say "sleeping with the fishes". 
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 06:45:09 PM
I saw "908" written on your motherboard in one of your photos. Maybe someone has the wiring drawing for it. The 911 motherboard schematic I have has some similarities but the differences make it harder to know where to measure the essential voltages.

Below are your photos with my notes showing where I think you can measure voltages. Not sure on this, let me know what you get. Be careful about letting the meter probe slip and shorting out something. And remember there is 115vac on that motherboard, watch where you put your hands.

I'll be adding to this post if I figure anything else out that I'm at least somewhat ok with saying.


C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc


I had a very difficult time manoeuvring to test C3 so I grounded to C5 and tested directly to the regulator VR1.



Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 07:18:15 PM
I am thinking the next step is to pull the 908 Motherboard/Backplain and check the traces.


Something's not adding up here.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 07:21:47 PM

C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc

I had a very difficult time manoeuvring to test C3 so I grounded to C5 and tested directly to the regulator VR1.

All of these are somewhat close enough to what I expected since I was just taking a wild shot at it, except for the 5vdc regulator (the second measurement listed). It could be that my guess about putting the red meter lead on the metal housing of the regulator would let you measure its output, I may be wrong about that. So we need to find another way to measure the +5 vdc to make sure if it is good or bad. Are you able to get to the mpu board when it is plugged in and power is on?


Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 07:27:49 PM

C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc

I had a very difficult time manoeuvring to test C3 so I grounded to C5 and tested directly to the regulator VR1.

All of these are somewhat close enough to what I expected since I was just taking a wild shot at it, except for the 5vdc regulator (the second measurement listed). It could be that my guess about putting the red meter lead on the metal housing of the regulator would let you measure its output, I may be wrong about that. So we need to find another way to measure the +5 vdc to make sure if it is good or bad. Are you able to get to the mpu board when it is plugged in and power is on?


It is VERY tight to access anything on the mpu when it it plugged in, but I am willing to try what you suggest. I can usually find a work around if I am unable to get my hands in there.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 07:31:22 PM
See if this works. Each eprom has a thin green wafer capacitor near the head of the eprom (end with the notch). This green cap is connected to 5vdc and ground. If you can reach any of these caps with your meter you can check if the 5 vdc is ok or not.

There may be another way to test the 5 vdc, I'll see if anything comes up.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 07:47:58 PM
See if this works. Each eprom has a thin green wafer capacitor near the head of the eprom (end with the notch). This green cap is connected to 5vdc and ground. If you can reach any of these caps with your meter you can check if the 5 vdc is ok or not.

There may be another way to test the 5 vdc, I'll see if anything comes up.


5vdc measured across all four caps. Promising I would assume!


BTW, thank you for your help! This is turning into an eventful evening.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 07:52:01 PM
That is good news about the 5vdc. I guess where I first had you check in the photo on top of the regulator it is not like the ones I've seen.

Anyway I'm going to make a list of the measurements you made and see what else needs to be checked. One thing I noticed on this drawing I have is that there is also a 15 volt AC voltage that goes to the mpu board. So we need to figure out where than comes from and make sure it is ok.

I don't want to string you along on a false feeling, I've never seen or worked on one of these machines so am definitely flying blind and not the best source for advice.

On your mpu board there will be a part marked "CR60" (hopefully) and it will be near 4 or 5 diodes and an ic marked "LM311". I think that is where the 15 volts AC gets connected. I looked back but didn't see a good clear photo of your mpu board, if you can post one that will help.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 08:11:06 PM

I was rereading all the previous posts in this thread to see if something triggered a thought or idea. I saw where SolidSilver sent you some documents, manuals, drawings on your machine. Can you forward all of that to me, I will PM you my email address or you can see it by clicking on my info to the left of any of my comments. Thanks.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 08:41:12 PM
I am thinking the next step is to pull the 908 Motherboard/Backplain and check the traces.
Something's not adding up here.

That's not a bad idea, a good visual might find something wrong, and actually it would be good to take a close look at all the boards and other assemblies you can reasonably get to.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 08:57:45 PM

I was rereading all the previous posts in this thread to see if something triggered a thought or idea. I saw where SolidSilver sent you some documents, manuals, drawings on your machine. Can you forward all of that to me, I will PM you my email address or you can see it by clicking on my info to the left of any of my comments. Thanks.


Email was just sent with doc's.


Just noticed cap C52 has some burn on it. Visible in the 3rd photo down. Could not/did not see this prior to taking the photos with the flash on.


C60 is visible in the first photo. It will be very difficult to test this connection with the mpu plugged in unless i make a lead from it to my multi.


Additional photos below:


Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 09:12:23 PM
I am thinking the next step is to pull the 908 Motherboard/Backplain and check the traces.
Something's not adding up here.

That's not a bad idea, a good visual might find something wrong, and actually it would be good to take a close look at all the boards and other assemblies you can reasonably get to.


Pulling the motherboard is the most difficult component. If all the voltages are in check, I would rather leave it in place, but I will pull if I have to, not a big deal.


I am considering swapping cap C52 below the empty eprom with cap C45 located above the empty eprom U5/1800.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 09:19:10 PM
Pulling the motherboard is the most difficult component. If all the voltages are in check, I would rather leave it in place, but I will pull if I have to, not a big deal.

I am considering swapping cap C52 below the empty eprom with cap C45 located above the empty eprom U5/1800.

Is there some damage with C52 or C45?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 09:24:14 PM
Pulling the motherboard is the most difficult component. If all the voltages are in check, I would rather leave it in place, but I will pull if I have to, not a big deal.

I am considering swapping cap C52 below the empty eprom with cap C45 located above the empty eprom U5/1800.

Is there some damage with C52 or C45?


Photo 3 in my second last post shows the burned cap.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 19, 2015, 10:07:24 PM
Just performed the cap swap with the same/similar results. Feels like it is so close to working it's not even funny...
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 19, 2015, 11:01:10 PM
.....
C60 is visible in the first photo. It will be very difficult to test this connection with the mpu plugged in unless i make a lead from it to my multi.
.....

That reddish part is CR60 (I know that's what you meant to type) and the drawing shows that it should have 15 volts ac across it. You might be able to connect two wires to it, one on each lead. They don't have to be soldered, just wrapped a couple of time to hold in place. The 2 wires can run out to where you can connect the meter to them. This is a rig, don't do it if you don't think it can be done safely. We may be able to find the pins on the mpu board connector on the motherboard (backplane) where the 15 vac comes from and measure it there.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 19, 2015, 11:50:25 PM
I am thinking the next step is to pull the 908 Motherboard/Backplain and check the traces.


Something's not adding up here.

What if there's a quarter wedged behind the motherboard? Just sayin'...
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 12:05:27 AM
I am thinking the next step is to pull the 908 Motherboard/Backplain and check the traces.


Something's not adding up here.

What if there's a quarter wedged behind the motherboard? Just sayin'...


It's funny that you mention that, while we were hauling the machine into the basement/rec-room I heard that familiar sound of a coin bounce inside the machine, turned out to be a quarter lol. I do not believe that to be the root of the problem though.


.....
C60 is visible in the first photo. It will be very difficult to test this connection with the mpu plugged in unless i make a lead from it to my multi.
.....

That reddish part is CR60 (I know that's what you meant to type) and the drawing shows that it should have 15 volts ac across it. You might be able to connect two wires to it, one on each lead. They don't have to be soldered, just wrapped a couple of time to hold in place. The 2 wires can run out to where you can connect the meter to them. This is a rig, don't do it if you don't think it can be done safely. We may be able to find the pins on the mpu board connector on the motherboard (backplane) where the 15 vac comes from and measure it there.




I just finished lightly cleaning the board with 99.9% isopropyl alcohol. There is a sporous odour in the machine and on the board as I was cleaning, either from humidity that the machine was exposed to or water damage at some point. About to test in a few minutes. If still no luck, that will be my next step. Likely tomorrow though as it's getting to the wee hours of the morning here (3am).. Need some sleep soon as tomorrow is another day.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Proten on November 20, 2015, 12:22:32 AM
The green around the cap that looks burned could be leaking acid from the cap.
I would replace all the electrolytic capacitors on the board to be on the safe side.
A shorted cap can bring down the voltage and stop the board from booting.
Plus those caps are around 30 years old and they work like batterys.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 12:27:27 AM
The green around the cap that looks burned could be leaking acid from the cap.
I would replace all the electrolytic capacitors on the board to be on the safe side.
A shorted cap can bring down the voltage and stop the board from booting.
Plus those caps are around 30 years old and they work like batterys.


Duly noted. I'll have to check at the local electronics depot to see if they carry the parts and if not, I'll have to locate some online. I have run into similar problems troubleshooting computers through the years and it makes sense.


After letting the alcohol dry and testing, it has the same results.


See ya all tomorrow.


Have a good one!
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 10:08:38 AM
From reading thru another repair thread the advice from a NLG user named Dormi, who has good experience with these machines, is to make sure that the mpu board is getting 4 important voltages. They need to be measured on the mpu so you are sure they are getting thru the various connectors and wires in the machine to the mpu board. If these 4 voltages are ok and  the 15vac circuit is adjusted as he says and the game doesn't play then it usually means the mpu board has a problem. That means you are looking at figuring out if the mpu is good or not. You'd need to install another mpu board that is known to be good to see if that fixes the machine, or send out your mpu to someone to have them test it.

He lists those 4 voltages to check on the mpu as:
1) the regulated 5 vdc, it can be measured on the thin green wafer caps near any eprom (you've done this)
2) the regulated 12 vdc, you've checked this on the backplane but need to know it is getting to the mpu
3) unregulated 12 vdc
4) 15 volts AC, measured across the MOV that is reddish in color, looks like a diode. This voltage is used by the mpu to know if the 115 vac power coming in from the wall socket is good. This circuit on the mpu can shutdown the mpu and not let it boot up if it thinks the 115 vac is too low. This can be a troublesome circuit on the mpu and cause unintended problems. Since the home user has reliable 115 vac electricity his advice is to turn the adjustment pot in this circuit all the way clockwise so this circuit won't ever shut down the MPU board. If you aren’t sure which way to turn you can try all the way to one side, then see if the machine works. If not, turn the adjustment pot all the way in the other direction and try again.

Unfortunately, the places on the mpu to measure these voltages in that other thread are on a 905 mpu board, you have a 903 mpu board. So the parts designators and locations like C3, R74 and CR25 are called different names on your mpu.

Here is one of your photos with some notes that might help, not sure.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 11:25:09 AM
From reading thru another repair thread the advice from a NLG user named Dormi, who has good experience with these machines, is to make sure that the mpu board is getting 4 important voltages. They need to be measured on the mpu so you are sure they are getting thru the various connectors and wires in the machine to the mpu board. If these 4 voltages are ok and  the 15vac circuit is adjusted as he says and the game doesn't play then it usually means the mpu board has a problem. That means you are looking at figuring out if the mpu is good or not. You'd need to install another mpu board that is known to be good to see if that fixes the machine, or send out your mpu to someone to have them test it.

He lists those 4 voltages to check on the mpu as:
1) the regulated 5 vdc, it can be measured on the thin green wafer caps near any eprom (you've done this)
2) the regulated 12 vdc, you've checked this on the backplane but need to know it is getting to the mpu
3) unregulated 12 vdc
4) 15 volts AC, measured across the MOV that is reddish in color, looks like a diode. This voltage is used by the mpu to know if the 115 vac power coming in from the wall socket is good. This circuit on the mpu can shutdown the mpu and not let it boot up if it thinks the 115 vac is too low. This can be a troublesome circuit on the mpu and cause unintended problems. Since the home user has reliable 115 vac electricity his advice is to turn the adjustment pot in this circuit all the way clockwise so this circuit won't ever shut down the MPU board. If you aren’t sure which way to turn you can try all the way to one side, then see if the machine works. If not, turn the adjustment pot all the way in the other direction and try again.

Unfortunately, the places on the mpu to measure these voltages in that other thread are on a 905 mpu board, you have a 903 mpu board. So the parts designators and locations like C3, R74 and CR25 are called different names on your mpu.

Here is one of your photos with some notes that might help, not sure.



Fantastic info, thank you for digging it up!


Do you happen to know where to test for the regulated and unregulated 12vdc? I should be able to manage testing the 115vac a little bit later as I have to step out for a bit. I have already adjusted R33 full clockwise with the same results so measuring CR60 would seem to be the next logical step. I'll report back later with my findings.


Cheers,


Rick.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
Fantastic info, thank you for digging it up!

Do you happen to know where to test for the regulated and unregulated 12vdc? I should be able to manage testing the 115vac a little bit later as I have to step out for a bit. I have already adjusted R33 full clockwise with the same results so measuring CR60 would seem to be the next logical step. I'll report back later with my findings.

Cheers,
Rick.

not sure about those 2 voltages you mentioned, that's why I wasn't able to list where to measure them in my earlier post. I trying to go thru the 903 board schematics you sent to be able to advise where to measure those voltages. One idea is that there is a larger capacitor in one corner of your mpu board (see photo below) that may have one of these voltages across it. It looks like a typical filter cap for something like that. If you want to measure the voltage on it we'll see what's there.

Just to clarify, the voltage on the reddish MOV part CR60 isn't 115 vac, it is only 15 vac. But it does represent the 115 vac coming in to the machine on the line power cord from your wall socket. If that line voltage drops then the 15 vac also drops. That's what the circuit on the mpu board watches, to see if the 15 vac drops to a level that means the machine's main input power is unreliable. But it isn't really needed for home users, so best to defeat the circuit by turning that adjustment pot all the way down.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 04:04:41 PM
Fantastic info, thank you for digging it up!

Do you happen to know where to test for the regulated and unregulated 12vdc? I should be able to manage testing the 115vac a little bit later as I have to step out for a bit. I have already adjusted R33 full clockwise with the same results so measuring CR60 would seem to be the next logical step. I'll report back later with my findings.

Cheers,
Rick.

not sure about those 2 voltages you mentioned, that's why I wasn't able to list where to measure them in my earlier post. I trying to go thru the 903 board schematics you sent to be able to advise where to measure those voltages. One idea is that there is a larger capacitor in one corner of your mpu board (see photo below) that may have one of these voltages across it. It looks like a typical filter cap for something like that. If you want to measure the voltage on it we'll see what's there.

Just to clarify, the voltage on the reddish MOV part CR60 isn't 115 vac, it is only 15 vac. But it does represent the 115 vac coming in to the machine on the line power cord from your wall socket. If that line voltage drops then the 15 vac also drops. That's what the circuit on the mpu board watches, to see if the 15 vac drops to a level that means the machine's main input power is unreliable. But it isn't really needed for home users, so best to defeat the circuit by turning that adjustment pot all the way down.


After testing CR60 I am reading 13vac, is this too low or is it potentially indicating a motherboard problem? Pot is turned fully clockwise.


The capacitor mentioned in your last post measures 12vdc. Looks to be on par with operating standards.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 05:37:31 PM
I don't know how low the 15 vac input to the mpu board can go before the mpu board gets shutdown by that circuit with the R33 pot adjustment. Even with the adjustment pot R33 set all the way clockwise that voltage of 13 vac may be low enough to cause a problem.

Dormi or SolidSilver may know if this is something to be concerned about, maybe one of them or someone else will see this and give advice. Meanwhile I will see if I can find anything on this.

This is a possibility on your problem, glad you found it, we need to run it down.

If you want to try something here is an idea-

Do you see an ic near that R33 pot, it will be marked "LM311" or similar? It should have U37 written on the board near it. This is the circuit that shuts down the mpu if the 15 vac is too low. When you adjust the pot R33 from one end of travel to the other you should be able to measure a change in voltage on pin 7 of U37. If that isn't happening then the 15 vac input is too low. If you can measure U37 pin 7 with the pot all the way to one side, then measure it again with the pot all the way to the other extreme we will know something.

You can use any DC ground for your meter black lead, may have to solder a wire to U37 pin 7 to run it out for your meter to attach to the red lead. I wish it was easier to reach this area of the mpu, can you remove anything like a housing or card cage that is in the way?

Also look for a part labelled U36 near this same area. It is the switch FET that actually does the shutdown. We may do something tricky with it later.

Below is an example of an 8 pin ic and how the legs are numbered. Notice there is a notch on one end of the chip, this is the top edge, pin 1 is on the left corner. Look for the same notch on U37, sometimes instead of a notch there is a small circular indentation by a corner for the pin 1 indicator, I can't tell in the photo what you have. If unsure post a closeup of U37 area. Pin 7 is on the right side, second from the top.

  :lol:   Forgot to ask earlier, do you have a soldering iron and if so, are you dangerous with it? 

EDIT - I fixed some typos in this post.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 06:44:30 PM

What if there's a quarter wedged behind the motherboard? Just sayin'...

It's funny that you mention that, while we were hauling the machine into the basement/rec-room I heard that familiar sound of a coin bounce inside the machine, turned out to be a quarter lol. I do not believe that to be the root of the problem though.

You'd be surprised, we've heard from people that found a coin jammed in someplace causing a problem. These old machines sometimes get hauled in a vehicle laying on their side, or get rolled over sideways, so anything loose inside can bounce all over the place.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 07:59:15 PM
I don't know how low the 15 vac input to the mpu board can go before the mpu board gets shutdown by that circuit with the R33 pot adjustment. Even with the adjustment pot R33 set all the way clockwise that voltage of 13 vac may be low enough to cause a problem.

Dormi or SolidSilver may know if this is something to be concerned about, maybe one of them or someone else will see this and give advice. Meanwhile I will see if I can find anything on this.

This is a possibility on your problem, glad you found it, we need to run it down.

If you want to try something here is an idea-

Do you see an ic near that R33 pot, it will be marked "LM311" or similar? It should have U37 written on the board near it. This is the circuit that shuts down the mpu if the 15 vac is too low. When you adjust the pot R33 from one end of travel to the other you should be able to measure a change in voltage on pin 7 of U37. If that isn't happening then the 15 vac input is too low. If you can measure U37 pin 7 with the pot all the way to one side, then measure it again with the pot all the way to the other extreme we will know something.

You can use any DC ground for your meter black lead, may have to solder a wire to U37 pin 7 to run it out for your meter to attach to the red lead. I wish it was easier to reach this area of the mpu, can you remove anything like a housing or card cage that is in the way?

Also look for a part labelled U36 near this same area. It is the switch FET that actually does the shutdown. We may do something tricky with it later.

Below is an example of an 8 pin ic and how the legs are numbered. Notice there is a notch on one end of the chip, this is the top edge, pin 1 is on the left corner. Look for the same notch on U37, sometimes instead of a notch there is a small circular indentation by a corner for the pin 1 indicator, I can't tell in the photo what you have. If unsure post a closeup of U37 area. Pin 7 is on the right side, second from the top.

  :lol:   Forgot to ask earlier, do you have a soldering iron and if so, are you dangerous with it? 

EDIT - I fixed some typos in this post.


I do have a soldering iron and know just enough to be dangerous! I have already done a little bit of re-work on the board and added the new battery pack.


I am unsure if I will be able to get around to making the measurements tonight as there is some company over but I will get around to it as soon as possible. There is not much that can be done as far as freeing up any space to work on the motherboard in the cabinet. I manages to find a pair of esd (electro static discharge)wrist straps with alligator clips at one end with long enough insulated leads that I am taking the measurements from (thankful I did not get rid of all my tech tools through the years). These esd straps are going to make the job a whole lot easier and safer for taking measurements. I'll post a couple of pics later/tomorrow of how it goes together for anyone interested. Pretty basic but useful.


The components that are closer to the motherboard/backplain have to be measured by:


1.) Turning off the machine
2.) Pull the MPU
3.) Connect leads
4.) Install MPU
5.) Power up machine
6.) Take measurement


The above process has to be repeated for each measurement.


When measuring pin 7 of U37, is it AC or DC thtat we are looking for?


I have worked on thousands of computers through the years, this old arcade machine is not a whole lot different in many aspects and your detailed guidance is like electronics 101. I have learnt a lot being here for the past week or so, and am thankful to you and everyone else for the guidance and support.


Will be back on tonight if possible.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 08:13:08 PM
My oversight, measure DC voltage for U37. Should have caught this when you said to ground to DC  :duh:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 08:57:06 PM
No problem on taking a break anytime you need to or want to. In fact it is sometimes good to get away from a problem, forget about it, come back later refreshed. And if you get tired of my ideas, or someone chimes in with a good-sounding idea you want to try then by all means go for it. I don't want to monopolize this repair thread, I would be ok to be reading and following along while someone else drives this choo-choo, especially someone that is more familiar with your machine.

Yes, the output of U37 is a dc voltage. U37 is an Op-Amp (operational amplifier). It is setup in this circuit to have a logic high output (pin 7) when the 15 vac coming in is good. The 4 diodes nearby to the R33 pot are in a full wave bridge configuration, they change the 15 vac to a dc voltage that runs thru the adjustment pot R33. The wiper of R33 (center arm, pickoff arm) connects this dc voltage to an input on U37 pin 2. This dc voltage can go up or down if the 15 vac coming to the mpu goes up or down and it represents the 115 vac line power your machine is plugged into.

U37 has a second input, on pin 3, and it is a reference for comparison to pin 2. This input on U37 pin 3 is held at a constant voltage of 5.6 vdc by a nearby zener diode called CR61. If the voltage on U37 pin 2 drops below the reference voltage on U37 pin 3 that means the 15 vac input voltage has dropped too far and the U37 output on pin 7 now goes to a logic low. This will cause the mpu to be shutdown. The R33 adjustment pot is used to set the voltage on U37-2 so this circuit operates properly when the ac power to the machine is ok. You want the voltage on U37 pin 2 to be as high a voltage as possible, that's why you turn the R33 pot all the way one direction. I'm not sure which way clockwise is on R33, I suppose it is with you facing the front of R33. Is that how you did it?



 
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 08:58:40 PM
U37 = 2.8-2.9vdc


What a pain in the butt rigging that lead cable from pin 7...
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 09:02:05 PM
If the wire to measure U37-7 is still attached can you turn R33 all the way to opposite direction and measure U37-7 again?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 09:04:15 PM
I'm not sure which way clockwise is on R33, I suppose it is with you facing the front of R33. Is that how you did it?


That is how I did it.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 09:16:04 PM
If the wire to measure U37-7 is still attached can you turn R33 all the way to opposite direction and measure U37-7 again?


U37-7 lead with R33 turned full counter clockwise = -0.4 to -1.2vdc


When I first turned the pot counter clockwise  and plugged the machine in there was a buzzing sound that went away within a few seconds.


Time for a rum and coke... Maybe a double  :banghead:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 20, 2015, 09:30:05 PM
If the wire to measure U37-7 is still attached can you turn R33 all the way to opposite direction and measure U37-7 again?

U37-7 lead with R33 turned full counter clockwise = -0.4 to -1.2vdc

When I first turned the pot counter clockwise  and plugged the machine in there was a buzzing sound that went away within a few seconds.

Time for a rum and coke... Maybe a double  :banghead:

That was the dehydration alarm that went off -
definitely time for a sasparilla or something along those lines!   :frosty_beer:


I'll be away from the internet tomorrow, will check back in the evening.

The measurements you got makes me think that U37 is working the way it should. It went from a logic high to a logic low when you turned the adjustment R33 from its high point to its low point. Without any additional info I'd say the 15 vac voltage is ok at this point. When the buzzing sound happened any idea where it came from? Did the image on the machine's screen change?

Also, did anyone ever comment about the dipswitch #2 settings? You don't have to worry about dipswitch #1, it is for setting the serial port baud rate and that feature isn't used on your board, that's why there is an empty socket (U81?) near dipswitch #1.


Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 09:38:11 PM
If the wire to measure U37-7 is still attached can you turn R33 all the way to opposite direction and measure U37-7 again?

U37-7 lead with R33 turned full counter clockwise = -0.4 to -1.2vdc

When I first turned the pot counter clockwise  and plugged the machine in there was a buzzing sound that went away within a few seconds.

Time for a rum and coke... Maybe a double  :banghead:

That was the dehydration alarm that went off -
definitely time for a sasparilla or something along those lines!   :frosty_beer:



I'll be away from the internet tomorrow, will check back in the evening.


I'll take the good advice fine sir! Time to unwind a little bit and come into things with a clear head. [blink]Really appreciate everything you have done thus far.[/blink] I'll leave everything setup as is for now.


If I had the option to have the board tested locally I would do so, at the same token, as a technician the challenge is also fun and rewarding when things work in the end.


Cheers everyone!
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 20, 2015, 11:10:02 PM
If the wire to measure U37-7 is still attached can you turn R33 all the way to opposite direction and measure U37-7 again?

U37-7 lead with R33 turned full counter clockwise = -0.4 to -1.2vdc

When I first turned the pot counter clockwise  and plugged the machine in there was a buzzing sound that went away within a few seconds.

Time for a rum and coke... Maybe a double  :banghead:
Also, did anyone ever comment about the dipswitch #2 settings? You don't have to worry about dipswitch #1, it is for setting the serial port baud rate and that feature isn't used on your board, that's why there is an empty socket (U81?) near dipswitch #1.


From my findings using the 7.6 eprom (ROM Image/Dump) with MAME there are virtual dip settings that allow the max bet to be changed from 10, 20 or 50 thus increasing the jackpots. I have reverted the dip settings to the original settings when I first received the machine.


Apparently, other dip settings include the minimum pair hand to win from a pair of jacks (minimum), to a pair of queens to a pair of kings to paired aces which would decrease the likelihood of having a winning hand. Once we get the machine operational I will be able to confirm this (hopefully we get it working).
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 21, 2015, 12:22:50 AM
From looking at the mpu schematic it looks like Dipswitch #2, position 6 can prevent the mpu master reset circuit from resetting the microprocessor if the position 6 switch is set to ON. Normally that switch is OFF so that a reset will happen if it is called for. This may be for troubleshooting, possibly like when the Test Eprom is installed in the board, but I'm not sure. You could try setting it to ON to see if anything meaningful happens.

Dipswitch #2, positions 7 and 8 have to do with the polarity of the video sync signals. Position 7 is for Vertical Sync Polarity, position 8 is for Horizontal Sync Polarity. I think this allows the machine to use different monitors since the sync polarity can be different depending on the monitor used. You might try changing them one at a time to see if it has any affect on your screen image.

Probably should write down the switch settings before changing any, just so you can put them back to original if needed.

Photo below shows a few more tidbits about your mpu. Afraid I haven't come up with anything regarding your problem though.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 21, 2015, 10:54:54 AM
From looking at the mpu schematic it looks like Dipswitch #2, position 6 can prevent the mpu master reset circuit from resetting the microprocessor if the position 6 switch is set to ON. Normally that switch is OFF so that a reset will happen if it is called for. This may be for troubleshooting, possibly like when the Test Eprom is installed in the board, but I'm not sure. You could try setting it to ON to see if anything meaningful happens.

Dipswitch #2, positions 7 and 8 have to do with the polarity of the video sync signals. Position 7 is for Vertical Sync Polarity, position 8 is for Horizontal Sync Polarity. I think this allows the machine to use different monitors since the sync polarity can be different depending on the monitor used. You might try changing them one at a time to see if it has any affect on your screen image.

Probably should write down the switch settings before changing any, just so you can put them back to original if needed.

Photo below shows a few more tidbits about your mpu. Afraid I haven't come up with anything regarding your problem though.


Tried dip #2 sw 6 in the on position with the same results. Again, thanks for the additional mpu information.


My next step is to pull the motherboard and check the traces and solder joints. Maybe get lucky and find a quarter in there causing the problem.


Will report back later with my findings.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 21, 2015, 12:36:32 PM
After pulling the 908 motherboard/backplain and doing a visual inspection, everything actually looked pretty good (joints and traces). I used some contact spray and cleaned the switches and contact points for the molex connector pins. Sprayed the pots. Re-installed the motherboard and mpu and connectors.


The same problem persists but this has been on my mind to check for a few days now. No extra quarters either lol.


Anyone out there have any additional insight's to provide?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 12:10:53 AM
I've been comparing the schematic for your 903 mpu board to the 904 or 905 mpu schematic that Dormi was using when he advised of the 4 voltages to check on the mpu. You older mpu board is somewhat different so the names of the places to measure these voltages is different, but they are there. From what SolidSilver said your mpu and machine is the "arcade" version of a Cal Omega machine, before they had to make certain changes to meet Nevada requirements for casino operation. For example, your board does not have the larger memory piggy back board that stores all the financial bookkeeping data required by casinos. And your game software uses 4 eproms to hold the game software, later games use 5. The mpu's basically all work very similar, just some features or functions are added or changed. You might be able to install a newer version of mpu board into your machine, not sure about that, as some machines have different pushbutton arrangements. But I'd think that would be a software variation to use whatever buttons, so with the right game software and a newer mpu board you might in business.

If you remember we started out by measuring some of the power supply voltages on the backplane board where some of them are created. But Dormi suggested actually measuring them on the mpu board, that makes sure they are getting to the mpu, since a bad connector or wire could keep a voltage from getting to the mpu. That's good advice.

You measured the +5vdc regulated on the mpu and it is good. That is the voltage on the thin green wafer capacitor near each eprom.

You measured the +12vdc unregulated, that is the voltage across the large capacitor in the corner of the mpu board near CR8 and CR9.

You measured the 15vac on the MOV called CR60, the reddish diode looking part. It was about 13vac but looks like it is ok, especially since you have turned R33 adjustment pot all the way clockwise as Dormi advised.

That leaves the +12vdc regulated that needs to be verified reaching the mpu board. It can be measured on one end of R16, a resistor near the crystal (chrome rectangular can). On one end of R16 you should see the regulated +12vdc, the other end has 5.6vdc. Your black meter lead can be on any DC ground for these 2 measurements. Since R16 is near the front edge of the mpu maybe the measurements will be easier than some of the others.

Below are some photos with notes, you can check some of the things mentioned if you want to. The notes about CR10 and CR11 I'm not completely sure about since I don't have the mpu board to look on the backside at how they are connected to each other. If you measure the CR10-CR11 voltage and have any questions let me know.

If all of these voltage measurements check good then Dormi advised that the mpu is probably bad, so that means you are at a decision point. If this was a repair shop the tech would next do things like swap in known good software eproms, measure the master clock frequency with a freq counter or o'scope to make sure it is running, plug in the Cal Omega Test Eprom and run it to see if it finds any problems, swap out all chips in sockets since that is easy to try, and maybe some other things I'm not thinking of.

Since we can't easily do most of these things then that limits the choices on how best to proceed. This is why many home owners generally swap boards to repair a machine if the defect on the board is not easily seen. Hopefully others here will suggest something else to try. Depending on the cost I'd think about either buying another mpu or sending this mpu out for test & repair. Another possibility is to borrow a working mpu to test in your machine to prove if it is your mpu that is causing the problem or something else. If you have an eprom burner or know someone that does you can test your eproms by reading them to get a checksum, then see if that checksum matches what the checksum is supposed to be, the MAME websites have that information.

Keep in mind my advice is from a non-expert, I have no experience on these Cal Omega machines. If other ideas come to me I'll let you know about them. Anyone that has worked on them or other older machines might have a good idea about what to do next or something to try, maybe they will make a suggestion.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 02:03:02 PM
R16 = 13.8vdc on one end and 8.4vdc on the other end.


Measuring across CR10-CR11 = 4.1vdc


Yesterday I pulled all removable chips and performed a light sanding across the connecting points and re-seated them.


From all of the voltage testing and measurements presented what or where do you think the problem may lay?


I do not really have the option to test with a verified mpu board or test eprom as I do not have access to the parts. I could ship the board out but would imagine it would cost upwards of $70 return alone.


My initial investment for this machine delivered was a meagre $70 and I find it difficult to invest another $200 +/- on a machine that may still have problems after purchasing another mpu with trade-in and shipping, taxes and exchange, I am using this as a ballpark figure but am likely close. I seen the identical fully working machine listed 3 times on the bay for $400 with local pickup only.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 03:09:41 PM
That voltage of 13.8vdc on R16 seems high, and the other end of R16 should for sure be 5.6vdc since it is clamped at that level by zener diode CR64 which is right next to R16. Maybe the meter's black lead was on a dc ground that wasn't a good connection, or maybe something else I missed, not sure. Anyway, if you want to double-check it you can measure across CR64 to see if that will give 5.6vdc. If it does that is good. If so, then leave the black meter lead on the anode end of CR64, which is the end without the black band (stripe), that is dc ground and then measure with the red meter lead on both ends of R16. See if you get the same readings as before.

These 903 mpu schematic drawings I have aren't big on detail, plus they are fuzzy and hard to read in places. Back in those days drawings like this were hand-drawn and after they had been photocopied many times they become harder to read. So if you again get the 13.8vdc on R16 it might be that is the unregulated 12vdc instead of the regulated 12vdc I thought it was.

The measurement on CR10-CR11 is lower than I expected but like I said earlier I am not sure how they are connected together on the board. Can you post a photo of the back of the mpu showing the CR10-CR11 area?

I wish I could make an educated guess about your problem but it is hard to say what the problem could be, we aren't even sure if it is the mpu board that is causing it. The things we've checked have appeared to be ok (except the open items above). The only way to know better would be to try another mpu in your machine or try your mpu in another Cal Omega machine. I haven't shopped for replacement mpu's, they may be pretty low cost, like $15-$20, someone more familiar with these machines would have to say.

I might be able to make a test eprom, will have to check on that. The test eprom software is part of the Cal Omega software kept on some of the MAME websites. If you were to use the Test Eprom you'd have to be able to see the video monitor to see the results it would be showing. So if your machine screen isn't working that's not going to get anywhere. Any idea if the monitor is working, do you get any indication on the display that would leave you to believe it is ok?

Luckily the $70 price is not a huge investment, many of us here have spent money on a machine in unknown condition and just hope for the best. Sometimes it works out, sometimes you find out you have to spend more to get it working. If you decide to not spend anything further on it I'd think you can get much of your investment by selling parts from it to other Cal Omega owners. There should be many common parts that can be used on other machines. But if you check around on what a replacement mpu would cost it might surprise you and be low. I'd also recommend you send a private message to Dormi, SolidSilver and Shortrackskater, see if they have an mpu for sale, or can test yours for you for a favorable price. There may be other Cal Omega owners here that have spare parts, you can place a WTB (Want to Buy) in the classifieds area saying you want one.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 03:18:44 PM
Going through all of the previous steps taken, I went with a gut instinct and decided to wash the mpu. As I had mentioned in an earlier post, I did/do smell a musty odour when opening the cabinet. There are some areas that appear to have had moisture that has since dried on the board itself (could be causing shorting/grounding problems).


I removed the battery that I added and poured a sink full of hot water with a little bit of suds, let the mpu soak for about 10 minutes, went through all of the components and board with a toothbrush, thoroughly rinsed with hot water and shook off most of the water by holding a mounting post in the corner with an up and down motion. The board is sitting on the top of a dehumidifier with the air blowing directly on the component side.


In the past I have been able to revive water/liquid damaged laptops using a similar method.


I will let the mpu board thoroughly dry and then test later tonight when I feel confident that the board is ready and dry. I was careful to not rub off the 7.6.x stickers as I do not want to expose the eprom programming to any light and potentially damage the programming.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 03:25:11 PM
A good cleaning sometimes revives a board if there is some type of contamination on it that is causing the failure, be sure to let it dry completely. The stickers on the eproms are mainly to let people know what software is programmed into the eprom. The sticker does cover the clear erasing window on the eprom but realistically it would take many many hours of direct sunlight to erase an eprom, only UV light can do that and most interior lights give off too little UV to be a problem. I've left uncovered eproms on a sunny window sill at work for a couple of weeks and they still held their data.

Post again if anything comes up, I'll do the same.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 03:44:13 PM
That voltage of 13.8vdc on R16 seems high, and the other end of R16 should for sure be 5.6vdc since it is clamped at that level by zener diode CR64 which is right next to R16. Maybe the meter's black lead was on a dc ground that wasn't a good connection, or maybe something else I missed, not sure. Anyway, if you want to double-check it you can measure across CR64 to see if that will give 5.6vdc. If it does that is good. If so, then leave the black meter lead on the anode end of CR64, which is the end without the black band (stripe), that is dc ground and then measure with the red meter lead on both ends of R16. See if you get the same readings as before.

These 903 mpu schematic drawings I have aren't big on detail, plus they are fuzzy and hard to read in places. Back in those days drawings like this were hand-drawn and after they had been photocopied many times they become harder to read. So if you again get the 13.8vdc on R16 it might be that is the unregulated 12vdc instead of the regulated 12vdc I thought it was.

The measurement on CR10-CR11 is lower than I expected but like I said earlier I am not sure how they are connected together on the board. Can you post a photo of the back of the mpu showing the CR10-CR11 area?

I wish I could make an educated guess about your problem but it is hard to say what the problem could be, we aren't even sure if it is the mpu board that is causing it. The things we've checked have appeared to be ok (except the open items above). The only way to know better would be to try another mpu in your machine or try your mpu in another Cal Omega machine. I haven't shopped for replacement mpu's, they may be pretty low cost, like $15-$20, someone more familiar with these machines would have to say.

I might be able to make a test eprom, will have to check on that. The test eprom software is part of the Cal Omega software kept on some of the MAME websites. If you were to use the Test Eprom you'd have to be able to see the video monitor to see the results it would be showing. So if your machine screen isn't working that's not going to get anywhere. Any idea if the monitor is working, do you get any indication on the display that would leave you to believe it is ok?

Luckily the $70 price is not a huge investment, many of us here have spent money on a machine in unknown condition and just hope for the best. Sometimes it works out, sometimes you find out you have to spend more to get it working. If you decide to not spend anything further on it I'd think you can get much of your investment by selling parts from it to other Cal Omega owners. There should be many common parts that can be used on other machines. But if you check around on what a replacement mpu would cost it might surprise you and be low. I'd also recommend you send a private message to Dormi, SolidSilver and Shortrackskater, see if they have an mpu for sale, or can test yours for you for a favorable price. There may be other Cal Omega owners here that have spare parts, you can place a WTB (Want to Buy) in the classifieds area saying you want one.


I will be sure to test these steps if my last step does not work or is producing the same results.


From what I am gathering, the monitor is ok. It does display minor differential results when adjusting dip #2 sw 7 and 8 to off, but it is very similar to the default "on" position that I received it in.


When the mpu is unplugged and tested with power, the screen lights up and has a solid white screen aside from the burn-in on the screen, so this is proving that there is a signal going to the crt when the mpu is plugged in. To me, it appears when powered up the mpu is stuck in a "boot loop", the screen has a flicker about every 1 second.


I am uncertain if a test eprom would be able to be read on the screen if the board itself is being prevented from booting in it's current state. Difficult to say without having a verified mpu to first test with.


If I am really lucky, performing the more thorough cleaning may free up or remove any residue that has been causing a grounding problem. Time will tell.


As far as what I have found so far online, "as-is" 903 boards are selling anywhere from $20-30 +an average of $30+ shipping in "untested" condition. I have seen it mentioned that board repair/replacement is ranging from $70-120


As with all electronics, they are usually able to be repaired. Maybe swapping all the caps is the right way to go as recommended earlier in the thread, but I am feeling it may be unlikely to resolve the issue at hand.


Parting it out and selling it in "tested as-is condition" may be the most viable way to go and potentially converting it to a dedicated 7.6 poker mame cabinet with an old laptop I have here and interface the buttons to work as original.


I'll keep everyone posted either way.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 04:26:33 PM
After cleaning and letting the board thoroughly dry I am getting the same results.


I'll post back later with the voltage readings that rokgpsman requested me to double check.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 04:50:51 PM
Double checked the voltages with the same results:


R16 = 13.8-13.9vdc on one end and 8.4-8.5vdc on the other end.

Measuring across CR10-CR11 = 4.1vdc

Had to edit the font size. Did a copy paste from the original size and everything posted very tiny.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
I am not educated on these machines at all. This is my first and only cntact I have had since I played them when I drove a tractor trailer in the south back in the mid 1980's
I think he said he has a 903 board. I dont know if the pinout is the same for the 904. If you feel that the turbo board you have will plug and play in a 904 cabinet, I could be interested in it. I also would like to get the sound to work in mine. I guess I will just poke around and check the PS and speaker before I do anything else.
Dave F

Dave- did you get your sound problem figured out? If not and you want to check some things on it we'll give it a try. Would probably be best to start a new thread, if you already have I missed it, let me know.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 22, 2015, 06:43:40 PM
Not yet ... thanks for thinking about it. A new thread would be best. I will start it tomorrow. I did see the post you had made and I did check the VR and no sound at all. Thinking it is the chip or my luck, I will replace all of that and find the speaker being bad. I will let you know and thanks again for helping.
Dave f
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
Not yet ... thanks for thinking about it. A new thread would be best. I will start it tomorrow. I did see the post you had made and I did check the VR and no sound at all. Thinking it is the chip or my luck, I will replace all of that and find the speaker being bad. I will let you know and thanks again for helping.
Dave f
ok, I'll be watching for it, from reading over the drawings trying to help RPM I got somewhat familiar with the sound circuit, have some ideas about what to check.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: The Fatman on November 22, 2015, 06:53:57 PM
Thanks ...
Dave F
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 07:01:04 PM
Double checked the voltages with the same results:

R16 = 13.8-13.9vdc on one end and 8.4-8.5vdc on the other end.

Measuring across CR10-CR11 = 4.1vdc

Had to edit the font size. Did a copy paste from the original size and everything posted very tiny.

Yeah, sometimes the forum software editor mis-interprets something we enter, like maybe we hit a special keyboard character, cursor movement key, etc, and thinks we are entering a change font command.

That reading on R16 is bothering me. A day or two ago you measured the +12vdc regulated on the backplane/motherboard and it was great, right on +12vdc. That was the 3 terminal regulator with "7812" written on it, mounted above C3 on the backplane. Anyway, since it was 12vdc I expected the voltage on mpu R16 to be +12vdc. And even if the high side of R16 is nearly 14 vdc the other side should still be 5.6vdc because of CR64. If you look at CR64 diode can you read the part number that is written on it by any chance?  I think I'll check on this a little.

OK- another place to measure this 12vdc is on U78 pin 8.  This is an ic that I think is located near your sound chip not far from R12. The sound chip has "Sound" written on top.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 09:06:28 PM
U78 measures 13.8vdc


Weird thing powering up the machine this time though, the screen was displaying something a little different this time. Still no image or sounds but the flickering appeared different. Nothing to get too excited about, just figured I would make mention of it.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 09:15:59 PM
CR64 is unclear but from what I can make out there is a letter H on the outside glass and I seen a number three on the inside. Does this make sense?


I had to use a 10x jewellers loop to make it out.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 09:42:12 PM
CR64 is unclear but from what I can make out there is a letter H on the outside glass and I seen a number three on the inside. Does this make sense?

I had to use a 10x jewellers loop to make it out.
Sometimes they are hard to read, and that may be the date of manufacture code you are seeing, the part number might be on the underside. The actual part number shown on the drawing is "1N4734A" and that is a standard part number, we used them a lot where I used to work. If the soldering on CR64 legs looks original then it is probably the right part, if the soldering looks like someone worked on it later then it might have been changed.
 
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 22, 2015, 09:46:18 PM
U78 measures 13.8vdc

Weird thing powering up the machine this time though, the screen was displaying something a little different this time. Still no image or sounds but the flickering appeared different. Nothing to get too excited about, just figured I would make mention of it.

I wonder if that display difference might be due to your cleaning efforts on the board?? Earlier when you were lightly sanding the legs on various ic's did you see any corrosion that looked like water damage, or was it just tarnish from all the years?

The schematic shows U78-8 getting 12vdc power, same for R16, I thought it would be the 12vdc regulated you measured on the backplane/motherboard 7812 part, which was right on the money at 12vdc. If you want to you can go back and double-check the 12vdc regulated on the backplane, see if it has changed, it was the 3 legged part marked with "7812", in upper left corner of that board, above C3.

Does you machine have a "Test" button or switch somewhere inside, with the door open, maybe behind the upper door? I've been reading some about that, it may not be in your machine. On machines that have a "Test" button it will put the mpu into a test mode and you have to hit a certain button combination on the player buttons to exit it and resume normal game play.


Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 09:59:35 PM
CR64 is unclear but from what I can make out there is a letter H on the outside glass and I seen a number three on the inside. Does this make sense?

I had to use a 10x jewellers loop to make it out.
Sometimes they are hard to read, and that may be the date of manufacture code you are seeing, the part number might be on the underside. The actual part number shown on the drawing is "1N4734A" and that is a standard part number, we used them a lot where I used to work. If the soldering on CR64 legs looks original then it is probably the right part, if the soldering looks like someone worked on it later then it might have been changed.


Looks to be original joints.


Just finished swapping out the 16v 10uf cap beside the sound chip with the same results. After removing the lead to U78 pin 8 the screen reverted to it's previous state.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 22, 2015, 10:50:48 PM
I located this power supply schematic during some internet searching just now. It is from a 1981 Omega Products Derringer Cabinet but I would assume it would be close to most arcade motherboards from the era.


Hopefully this helps us or someone else out.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 23, 2015, 12:17:42 AM
ok, thanks! There sure are a lot of variations on these Cal Omega/CEI machines.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 23, 2015, 09:47:11 AM
Can you post a photo of the backside of the mpu board showing the solder pads and board traces for CR10 and CR11?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
Can you post a photo of the backside of the mpu board showing the solder pads and board traces for CR10 and CR11?


My apologize, I meant to take that photo a day or two back for you.


Here is the original and edited photo as well as the entire back side of the mpu.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 10:44:19 AM
More mpu photos:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 23, 2015, 01:18:06 PM
Ok, thanks, I'll give them a look. I'm wondering about some of the readings you got, like the one across CR10-CR11. And those R16 voltages too.

Also, can you confirm if you have that "Test" button inside the machine? Something I read said it was behind "the upper door"?? But it might be in lower cabinet or elsewhere.

That voltage across CR10 and CR11 looks wrong. It should be 5vdc, I think you measured less than that the other day but I don't know how critical the value is. I've put notes on your photo below, plus posted a portion of the hard to read 903 mpu schematic showing CR10 and CR11. The schematic is grainy. CR11 is a zener diode, that is a type of diode that holds a constant voltage on its cathode. By connecting CR10 to the top of it the way they did that adds another .7vdc, giving a total regulated 5vdc source across both CR10 and CR11 for powering the mpu video circuits. (a conducting diode will have a constant voltage drop of .7 volts). I don't think this is keeping your mpu from working, not really sure, but it could cause the video image to be weak or poor quality. You have already measured across CR11 by itself, it should have been 4.3vdc. So CR11 might be bad. You can also check the 2 resistors (R37, R38) connected to CR10, CR11, I think they are 47 ohms but it is hard to read. Your meter should have a resistance measuring feature to check resistors. You can try measuring the resistors while installed in the board but the most accurate measurement method is to desolder one end of a resistor and lift that leg from the board to isolate the part while measuring it.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
Ok, thanks, I'll give them a look. I'm wondering about some of the readings you got, like the one across CR10-CR11. And those R16 voltages too.

Also, can you confirm if you have that "Test" button inside the machine? Something I read said it was behind "the upper door"?? But it might be in lower cabinet or elsewhere.

That voltage across CR10 and CR11 looks wrong. It should be 5vdc, I think you measured less than that the other day but I don't know how critical the value is. I've put notes on your photo below, plus posted a portion of the hard to read 903 mpu schematic showing CR10 and CR11. The schematic is grainy. CR11 is a zener diode, that is a type of diode that holds a constant voltage on its cathode. By connecting CR10 to the top of it the way they did that adds another .7vdc, giving a total regulated 5vdc source across both CR10 and CR11 for powering the mpu video circuits. (a conducting diode will have a constant voltage drop of .7 volts). I don't think this is keeping your mpu from working, not really sure, but it could cause the video image to be weak or poor quality. You have already measured across CR11 by itself, it should have been 4.3vdc. So CR11 might be bad. You can also check the 2 resistors (R37, R38) connected to CR10, CR11, I think they are 47 ohms but it is hard to read. Your meter should have a resistance measuring feature to check resistors. You can try measuring the resistors while installed in the board but the most accurate measurement method is to desolder one end of a resistor and lift that leg from the board to isolate the part while measuring it.


I seen this post prior to the edit. I'll have to read and go through the info and get back to you asap.


I spent a little bit of time working on some other aspects of the system today mainly focusing on the front panel lights as they were/are dim and inconsistent. Maybe relating to a power supply issue. Additional info may help to determine this machines problem (maybe).


I posted this in the FAQ What Is a KAR board in hopes that someone can help with a cross reference:


"Can someone out there with a KAR board help me out with measuring the DC Voltage? I have been troubleshooting a machine that has one and all of the button lights are dim.

The resistors all have continuity but two of them are missing most of the ceramic coating from time and heat. If I bypass the resistor with a line of solder some of the lights work nice and bright as I assume they should.

My KAR board measures 9.0vdc

If someone out there could help me to cross reference, it would be greatly appreciated."
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 05:57:11 PM
CR11 measures 3.52vdc


Previous measurement for CR10 and CR11 together was 4.1vdc the measurement was double checked


From the measurements, it would indicate a discrepancy of -0.78vdc +/- on the zener diode.


A question though, even with lower than normal power between CR10-CR11 in theory, the game board "should" still power up with at least audio of some sort (coin-op). There is a buzzing coming from the audio when the machine is powered up, when adjusting the audio pot to off the sound goes away.


I do have the test switch located in the lower half of the cabinet but it appears to have no functionality at the moment.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 23, 2015, 06:31:20 PM
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 07:19:43 PM
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.


I certainly appreciate the offer but as far as I am aware the 906 mpu boards will not work on the older motherboards but the older mpu boards will work with the newer motherboards . I recall seeing this somewhere on this forum.


I did find a 904 mpu on the bay in untested condition tonight with the same 7.6 eprom game on board as what my machine was designed for. Kinda sitting on the fence about it though. Untested is still a gamble but I might be able to make one good mpu out of the two..?


Really appreciate the offer though.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 23, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
I'm gonna dig back to the archive site and see exactly what board I used to have in mine. I could have sworn it was a 904 and was replaced with a 906. Hang on! Well it might be a while... gotta eat dinner and watch a movie!
 :Eating_Popcorn:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 23, 2015, 07:42:32 PM
CR11 measures 3.52vdc

Previous measurement for CR10 and CR11 together was 4.1vdc the measurement was double checked

From the measurements, it would indicate a discrepancy of -0.78vdc +/- on the zener diode.

A question though, even with lower than normal power between CR10-CR11 in theory, the game board "should" still power up with at least audio of some sort (coin-op). There is a buzzing coming from the audio when the machine is powered up, when adjusting the audio pot to off the sound goes away.

I do have the test switch located in the lower half of the cabinet but it appears to have no functionality at the moment.

I agree, the voltage across CR10-CR11 is likely low due to a weak CR11. A zener diode can fade this way after several years. The CR11 part number looks like it is 1N4731A, hard to read but that would be a 4.3v zener.  I don't know if I'd bother to replace it at this point unless you have a handy electronics store. The 5vdc that CR10-CR11 along with R37, R38 make is called the Vvid power, as far as I can tell Vvid is only used by the Red, Green, Blue video drive circuit. This voltage could affect picture quality but I don't see how it would keep your machine from running. If you do replace CR11 sometime you'll want to first make sure R37, R38 are correct 47 ohm, if they have increased much in resistance over the years they could "starve" the CR10-CR11 circuit and it would measure lower.

It is interesting to note that this CR10-CR11, R37, R38 circuit is not present on the 904 mpu board drawing. The 904 video output Red, Grn, Blue circuit uses normal 5vdc instead of this special Vvid 5vdc. Maybe on the early 903 boards they worried about the picture getting interference noise so they ran the Red,Grn,Blue circuit off its own little power supply. Just a guess.

That is a nice offer from Shortrackskater, I recommend you take him up on it. His mpu is a known good board, that way you'd know if your mpu is the problem or not. 
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 23, 2015, 07:45:37 PM
Crap! Well I found it right away... it looks like I may have always had a 906III (non turbo) board in my machine. It was made in 1985. But I can plug in a much newer 906 turbo board and the poker games work but the buttons aren't matched exactly with the video display.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 23, 2015, 07:48:24 PM
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.

I certainly appreciate the offer but as far as I am aware the 906 mpu boards will not work on the older motherboards but the older mpu boards will work with the newer motherboards . I recall seeing this somewhere on this forum.

I did find a 904 mpu on the bay in untested condition tonight with the same 7.6 eprom game on board as what my machine was designed for. Kinda sitting on the fence about it though. Untested is still a gamble but I might be able to make one good mpu out of the two..?

Really appreciate the offer though.

Dang- too bad your setup is not compatible with a 906 mpu. I'd be careful about getting an untested mpu and hoping for the best, you may end up with 2 headaches. Might contact the seller and see if he can tell you anything about it. I suppose if the price is low enough it is worth a shot though.

If I understand right, you would need either another 903 or a 904 mpu?

My knowledge on this is poor, but I saw it mentioned that the Test switch in the machine invokes special diagnostic software present in the eprom game software. It lets you test many operating functions and also do a screen alignment by throwing up a test pattern. Then to exit this Test mode you press buttons 1,3,5 at the same time, or something like that. Below is a Cal Omega manual, starting on page 7 is a description of Test mode.

This builtin Test mode is different from the Test Prom, which is a special eprom you install on the mpu. I guess it does more involved testing or perhaps lets you see stuff when the mpu isn't working right. The Test Prom is installed at board eprom location U9, you set dipswitch #2 position 6 to on and power up the machine. The Test Prom runs instead of game software and you get a technical display showing certain things. Attached below is a guide for using the Test Prom.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 23, 2015, 08:16:36 PM
.....I spent a little bit of time working on some other aspects of the system today mainly focusing on the front panel lights as they were/are dim and inconsistent. Maybe relating to a power supply issue. Additional info may help to determine this machines problem (maybe).....

From what I understand the machine will work ok with the KAR board removed, it was just added to lengthen the life of the pushbutton lamps. When the lamp is supposed to be ON the KAR board is bypassed. When the lamp is supposed to be OFF the KAR board resistors are connected in such a way that the lamps get a small amount of electricity, enough they will lightly glow, in order to keep them from going completely off and getting cold. You can try removing the KAR board and see if the button lamps work better or not. I don't think it affects the lamps when they are ON, but I might be mistaken.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 11:14:04 PM
Crap! Well I found it right away... it looks like I may have always had a 906III (non turbo) board in my machine. It was made in 1985. But I can plug in a much newer 906 turbo board and the poker games work but the buttons aren't matched exactly with the video display.


Mark,


Thanks a lot for taking the time to see what board you have, and for the offer. I'll have to check and see if the board is compatible or not, but I do not believe it is. I am sure SolidSilver made note of this somewhere.


Rick.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 23, 2015, 11:28:20 PM
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.

I certainly appreciate the offer but as far as I am aware the 906 mpu boards will not work on the older motherboards but the older mpu boards will work with the newer motherboards . I recall seeing this somewhere on this forum.

I did find a 904 mpu on the bay in untested condition tonight with the same 7.6 eprom game on board as what my machine was designed for. Kinda sitting on the fence about it though. Untested is still a gamble but I might be able to make one good mpu out of the two..?

Really appreciate the offer though.

Dang- too bad your setup is not compatible with a 906 mpu. I'd be careful about getting an untested mpu and hoping for the best, you may end up with 2 headaches. Might contact the seller and see if he can tell you anything about it. I suppose if the price is low enough it is worth a shot though.

If I understand right, you would need either another 903 or a 904 mpu?

My knowledge on this is poor, but I saw it mentioned that the Test switch in the machine invokes special diagnostic software present in the eprom game software. It lets you test many operating functions and also do a screen alignment by throwing up a test pattern. Then to exit this Test mode you press buttons 1,3,5 at the same time, or something like that. Below is a Cal Omega manual, starting on page 7 is a description of Test mode.

This builtin Test mode is different from the Test Prom, which is a special eprom you install on the mpu. I guess it does more involved testing or perhaps lets you see stuff when the mpu isn't working right. The Test Prom is installed at board eprom location U9, you set dipswitch #2 position 6 to on and power up the machine. The Test Prom runs instead of game software and you get a technical display showing certain things. Attached below is a guide for using the Test Prom.


I read through the attached pdf's that you posted, some good information there that I will be double checking tomorrow (technically later today for me).


I pulled CR10 and CR11 earlier and found another zener diode that measures 5.8vdc, I know it's not quite the 5vdc that it is suppose to be, but it is close enough that it should not hurt anything. Set dip #2 sw6 to ON and still have the same results. Nothing blew up at least!


I replaced CR11 with the new zener diode and just bridged the gap for CR10.


More testing tomorrow.


By the way, thanks for checking into the KAR board. I should post a pic of mine in the FAQ for reference. The revision is the same but my resistor set is only 6 total and are different ohms.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 24, 2015, 09:41:25 AM
Crap! Well I found it right away... it looks like I may have always had a 906III (non turbo) board in my machine. It was made in 1985. But I can plug in a much newer 906 turbo board and the poker games work but the buttons aren't matched exactly with the video display.

Mark,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to see what board you have, and for the offer. I'll have to check and see if the board is compatible or not, but I do not believe it is. I am sure SolidSilver made note of this somewhere.
Rick.

I just PM's member "doyson" who also helped with the CEI. I always forget if it was him or "dormi" who send me the board. I think I'm losing my mind. Hopefully one or both of them will chime in.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 24, 2015, 09:41:49 AM
From reading some of the stuff I've found I believe the dipswitch 2, position #6 switch is for troubleshooting use, like when the Test Prom is installed, maybe otherwise too. It disables the Reset circuit U34. The Test Prom guide refers to it at the top of page 1.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 24, 2015, 01:57:40 PM
.....By the way, thanks for checking into the KAR board. I should post a pic of mine in the FAQ for reference. The revision is the same but my resistor set is only 6 total and are different ohms.

What are your KAR board resistor values, did you check them with a meter and did that match the color banding? Can you post a photo of your KAR, looking straight at the resistors? Thanks.

Also, did you remeasure the lamp power on the KAR board, is it really only 9vdc? The lamp power voltage is on the board trace that connects to all of the resistors on one side of the board. I believe the lamp power comes to the KAR board on your motherboard KAR board connector J103 pin 12. Even though this lamp power voltage is DC it is isolated from the normal DC ground return. So to get an accurate measurement your meter black lead will have to be on the lamp voltage return line, which is the negative end of that big black cap (I think it is C4, 2200 uf, 25v on your motherboard) mounted near the fuses. When you checked the voltage across motherboard C4 a few days ago I think it was close to 18vdc. That is the lamp power.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 24, 2015, 04:06:43 PM
.....By the way, thanks for checking into the KAR board. I should post a pic of mine in the FAQ for reference. The revision is the same but my resistor set is only 6 total and are different ohms.

What are your KAR board resistor values, did you check them with a meter and did that match the color banding? Can you post a photo of your KAR, looking straight at the resistors? Thanks.

Also, did you remeasure the lamp power on the KAR board, is it really only 9vdc? The lamp power voltage is on the board trace that connects to all of the resistors on one side of the board. I believe the lamp power comes to the KAR board on your motherboard KAR board connector J103 pin 12. Even though this lamp power voltage is DC it is isolated from the normal DC ground return. So to get an accurate measurement your meter black lead will have to be on the lamp voltage return line, which is the negative end of that big black cap (I think it is C4, 2200 uf, 25v on your motherboard) mounted near the fuses. When you checked the voltage across motherboard C4 a few days ago I think it was close to 18vdc. That is the lamp power.


C4 measures 14.1vdc


Verified the KAR board is measuring at 9vdc


I'll have to go through the thread to find the first test settings and report back.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 24, 2015, 04:12:49 PM
In post #69 these were the voltages measured:


C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc


Would it be safe to assume that C4 is failing if today's measurement is only 14.1vdc??
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 24, 2015, 04:51:43 PM
In post #69 these were the voltages measured:

C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc

Would it be safe to assume that C4 is failing if today's measurement is only 14.1vdc??

Possibly, it isn't hard to change if you want to. It measured almost 18vdc the other day, now it is about 14vdc. Does it look leaky, bulging on the ends or around the middle? But before you replace it we can make other checks. For one thing you can measure it again but with the KAR board removed in case the KAR is loading it down. You don't need that KAR board in there for the machine to operate, I'd take it out until you get the machine running, eliminate one potential source of a problem.

If the drawings I have are similar to what your machine is the lamp voltage on motherboard capacitor C4 is created by the rectifier part CR3, located in the upper corner of the motherboard. It has a black metal heatsink covering the part so you won't be able to measure directly on it. There is a fuse mounted just below it, I'd assume it is part of that circuit but I didn't see a F# next to it in your photo. You could measure the voltage on that fuse, it may be a dc voltage if it is on the output of CR3, or it may be ac voltage if in the input side of CR3. My drawing is for a different motherboard than yours, not quite the same. Any measurements you make on the lamp voltage will need to have your meter black lead connected to the neg leg of motherboard C4, that is the low side (return side) of that circuit, it is isolated from the other voltages. Anyway, the amount of dc voltage coming out of CR3 will determine how much voltage is on capacitor C4. What's the situation with your button lamps now, do they switch on and off as you press them? This button problem may not matter until the machine is operating.

What is the link to that ebay 904 (903?) mpu you mentioned, I'd like to take a closer look at it. This thread is now so long I'm having trouble remembering details from earlier. sigh.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 24, 2015, 05:32:38 PM
In post #69 these were the voltages measured:

C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc

Would it be safe to assume that C4 is failing if today's measurement is only 14.1vdc??


Possibly, it isn't hard to change if you want to. It measured almost 18vdc the other day, now it is about 14vdc. Does it look leaky, bulging on the ends or around the middle? But before you replace it we can make other checks. For one thing you can measure it again but with the KAR board removed in case the KAR is loading it down. You don't need that KAR board in there for the machine to operate, I'd take it out until you get the machine running, eliminate one potential source of a problem.

If the drawings I have are similar to what your machine is the lamp voltage on motherboard capacitor C4 is created by the rectifier part CR3, located in the upper corner of the motherboard. It has a black metal heatsink covering the part so you won't be able to measure directly on it. There is a fuse mounted just below it, I'd assume it is part of that circuit but I didn't see a F# next to it in your photo. You could measure the voltage on that fuse, it may be a dc voltage if it is on the output of CR3, or it may be ac voltage if in the input side of CR3. My drawing is for a different motherboard than yours, not quite the same. Any measurements you make on the lamp voltage will need to have your meter black lead connected to the neg leg of motherboard C4, that is the low side (return side) of that circuit, it is isolated from the other voltages. Anyway, the amount of dc voltage coming out of CR3 will determine how much voltage is on capacitor C4. What's the situation with your button lamps now, do they switch on and off as you press them? This button problem may not matter until the machine is operating.

What is the link to that ebay 904 (903?) mpu you mentioned, I'd like to take a closer look at it. This thread is now so long I'm having trouble remembering details from earlier. sigh.



Without the KAR board plugged in C4 measures 14.8vdc. C4 appears to be in good physical condition, no bulging or leaking.


With the KAR board removed, the buttons do not light up at all. I believe the KAR only has functionality for the lights.


I'll try to get the rest of the measurements by the end of the night or sooner if possible.


Both of the following boards that I linked to have obvious problems and would only be for parts. Shipping is $45 to Canada. I really can't foresee myself purchasing either of them.


Link for a 903 board:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Untested-Arcade-Game-Board-Omega-See-Photos/131648568301?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D84c877fcac8d4a6f9801ce59f58c4bc1%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131655578752 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Untested-Arcade-Game-Board-Omega-See-Photos/131648568301?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D84c877fcac8d4a6f9801ce59f58c4bc1%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131655578752)


Link for 904 mpu:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omega-904-Arcade-Game-Boards-See-Photos/131655578752?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D84c877fcac8d4a6f9801ce59f58c4bc1%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131655578752 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omega-904-Arcade-Game-Boards-See-Photos/131655578752?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D84c877fcac8d4a6f9801ce59f58c4bc1%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131655578752)
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 24, 2015, 05:49:24 PM
Sheesh... A little steep on shipping for those boards. :(
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 24, 2015, 06:12:15 PM
Sheesh... A little steep on shipping for those boards. :(

yeah, I forgot that RPM was up in Canada and the high shipping costs have been mentioned many times here in the past by other folks from up there. Some are lucky and live close enough to the US border that they used to have stuff sent to a PO box or other convenient place on the US side, then just drive over. I don't know if that has changed nowadays.

That guy has "Make Offer" on the 903 board, there may not be much interest in it, so he might take a lot less for it. But if it's a dud then there you are. 

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 24, 2015, 11:34:00 PM
.....With the KAR board removed, the buttons do not light up at all. I believe the KAR only has functionality for the lights......

yes, the KAR is only for the button lamps, and that is only when the lamps are off. The KAR is bypassed when the button lamps are on, they are controlled by the mpu board when on. The mpu sends full lamp voltage to the button lamps to turn them on. The reason your buttons are not lighting up correctly is probably because your mpu isn't running, not because of the KAR board.

Checkout this post, Shortrackskater has a CEI/Cal Omega machine that works fine but does not have a KAR board installed. Your machine is older and different from his in some ways, but doesn't seem likely the KAR board function would be much different. But I wish we had better manuals or drawings to know more.

Okay as you all know...or not... I have a perfectly functioning CEI Video Poker game. Just noticed a connector on the back panel that says "KAR BOARD."
What does the KAR board do?  :Scratch-Head:

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1673.msg8473#msg8473 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1673.msg8473#msg8473)
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 25, 2015, 12:49:37 AM
Since we are running out of ideas you might consider replacing the LM311 chip U37. It is located on the mpu board near adjustment pot R33. It is only 8 legs, maybe not too hard to replace and Amechanic reports that replacing it fixed his machine.

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2562.msg13710#msg13710 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2562.msg13710#msg13710)

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 25, 2015, 04:06:03 AM
It sure did!! I think I mentioned this earlier in this post. My machine also did not have the KAR board. From what I have read or heard about them is that they kept a small amout of voltage running thru the deck button bulb circuit. It was used to extend the life of the bulbs from constant on/off of casino life. I believe that I may still have a few of the U37 LM311 chips here. My board had a socket already installed, so it make you think it could be a problem spot on these MPU boards..

Gary
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 08:58:57 AM
Since we are running out of ideas you might consider replacing the LM311 chip U37. It is located on the mpu board near adjustment pot R33. It is only 8 legs, maybe not too hard to replace and Amechanic reports that replacing it fixed his machine.

[url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2562.msg13710#msg13710[/url] ([url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2562.msg13710#msg13710[/url])



I am getting the same feeling. I did read through Gary's post and it looked promising for a potential fix for this machine.


It sure did!! I think I mentioned this earlier in this post. My machine also did not have the KAR board. From what I have read or heard about them is that they kept a small amout of voltage running thru the deck button bulb circuit. It was used to extend the life of the bulbs from constant on/off of casino life. I believe that I may still have a few of the U37 LM311 chips here. My board had a socket already installed, so it make you think it could be a problem spot on these MPU boards..

Gary



Gary, if you happen to have a spare LM311, would you consider selling one to me?


My board does not have the socket style but I am sure I can make it work. Or can someone post a link to where I might be able to purchase a compatible LM311 for my mpu?


I did run the machine last night without the game eprom and sound chip installed and had the exact same issue, scrolling screen with a flash every second or so with buzzing sound. I did this with a combination of chips and had some varying results.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 25, 2015, 09:52:01 AM
.....My board does not have the socket style but I am sure I can make it work. Or can someone post a link to where I might be able to purchase a compatible LM311 for my mpu?

The LM311 chip is available from many sources, but some of them may have a minimum order amount, plus shipping cost to Canada might be higher than reasonable. eBay may have the best price, not sure, and there is an eBay Canada, there might be sellers there located in Canada so wouldn't have international shipping. Also, you may have electronics stores in Canada that you can get it from. Amateur radio stores also carry electronic parts. And someone here on NLG might have one they could mail to you.

Here is what you are looking for. You will want the DIP style, not SOIC. DIP style has legs long enough to insert thru the board for soldering, on the SOIC style the legs are made for surface mount soldering, they lay flat on top of the board.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM311N-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rM8pMfn3Xc4QRfg1fRY5SUbY%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM311N-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rM8pMfn3Xc4QRfg1fRY5SUbY%3d)

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_23528_-1 (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_23528_-1)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=LM311&_sop=15 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=LM311&_sop=15)


Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 09:55:56 AM
.....My board does not have the socket style but I am sure I can make it work. Or can someone post a link to where I might be able to purchase a compatible LM311 for my mpu?


The LM311 chip is available from many sources, but some of them may have a minimum order amount, plus shipping cost to Canada might be higher than reasonable. eBay may have the best price, not sure. But here is what you are looking for. You will want the DIP style, not SOIC. DIP style has legs long enough to insert thru the board for soldering, on the SOIC style the legs are made for surface mount soldering, they lay flat on top of the board.

[url]http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM311N-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rM8pMfn3Xc4QRfg1fRY5SUbY%3d[/url] ([url]http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM311N-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rM8pMfn3Xc4QRfg1fRY5SUbY%3d[/url])

[url]http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_23528_-1[/url] ([url]http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_23528_-1[/url])

[url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=LM311&_sop=15[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=LM311&_sop=15[/url])



Thanks for the links! The LM311 for my 903 mpu would be the SOIC SMT.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on November 25, 2015, 09:57:26 AM
.....Thanks for the links! The LM311 for my 903 mpu would be the SOIC SMT.

Are you sure about it being surface mount? That 903 board was made back in the early 1980's??

Here is a photo from earlier in the thread, the LM311 looks to be a DIP. Check on back of board, see if there aren't LM311 legs sticking thru back there.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 25, 2015, 10:43:39 AM
The LM311 shouldn't be a surface mount but thru the board. If I can locate where I put the extra I bought your welcome to it. I just finished looking in one of my storage places, but no luck yet. I bought mine off Ebay when I did my repair.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 25, 2015, 11:11:49 AM
WooHoo.. Look what I just found. I can send you one if you give me your address..

Gary
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 11:45:19 AM
.....Thanks for the links! The LM311 for my 903 mpu would be the SOIC SMT.

Are you sure about it being surface mount? That 903 board was made back in the early 1980's??

Here is a photo from earlier in the thread, the LM311 looks to be a DIP. Check on back of board, see if there aren't LM311 legs sticking thru back there.


Ah yes, you are absolutely correct! I was thinking back to the other day when I had to solder the lead to pin 7 but did it from the top side of the board and in retrospect found it would have been easier to join the lead to the underside.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 11:49:37 AM
WooHoo.. Look what I just found. I can send you one if you give me your address..

Gary


That would be fantastic! I'll send you a pm with my address. Let me know what I owe you for the part and I will send the money  :dancing_2:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 12:23:32 PM
Gary, I sent you my address via pm.


I have one other thought prior to sending the LM311.


Would it be worth while testing the LM311 on your board with continuity having the mpu removed but chip on board and I do the same with mine at this end and make a measurement comparison?


Would this be a reliable/logical way to proceed?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 25, 2015, 01:13:44 PM
I would but that machine was sold last year.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on November 25, 2015, 05:33:56 PM
I would but that machine was sold last year.


Gary do you remember what kind of board I sent you a while back? Was it a 904  or 906?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 25, 2015, 08:32:18 PM
I think it was a 906.  I'd have to go out and check in my parts cabinet.

Richard.. Your LM311 chip is in the mail heading your way. I put an 8 leg socket in with the chip. Let me know when they get there. Hopefully they don't get held up in customs.

Gary
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 09:29:03 PM
I think it was a 906.  I'd have to go out and check in my parts cabinet.

Richard.. Your LM311 chip is in the mail heading your way. I put an 8 leg socket in with the chip. Let me know when they get there. Hopefully they don't get held up in customs.

Gary


Thanks a bunch Gary! Here's to hoping it will bring this old machine back to functional life! You guys are really going the extra mile here to get this ol'girl up and running  :cool_thumb_up:


I have been reviewing schematics and am wondering if it might be worth while to check the voltage of CR61 zener diode. Schematics show it is suppose to supply 5.6v (not sure if it is ac or dc though) and it connects to U37 pin 2  (LM311). If the zener diode is not supplying 5.6v would lm311 still have some function, or erratic function e.g. send voltage through pin 7 on u37 butt may not be enough  voltage) making lm311 turn on and off randomly??? This could explain the flicker on the screen every second or two.?


When we measured U37 (LM311) pin 7 the voltage was 2.8-2.9vdc and the CR61 zener diode is suppose to supply 5.6v to lm311 pin 2 which then switches to pin 7 on lm311.


Should the output on U37 pin 7 be the same as the output of CR61?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
CR61 measures 4.5vdc


Schematics show it is suppose to produce 5.6vdc which likely explains the low measurement on U37 pin 7.


I may switching the zener diode to a 5.8v that I have here and see what happens.




Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on November 25, 2015, 10:21:29 PM
Be careful..  :burningresistor: :burningresistor:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on November 25, 2015, 10:58:37 PM
Be careful..  :burningresistor: :burningresistor:


Just performed the swap of the zener diode. Although the machine is not operational (same as before, more or less), there is less noise on the screen and the flicker is about every two seconds now instead of every second. Could just be one more step in the right direction. I am getting the feeling that it is now narrowed down to the LM311 (hopefully).


I felt that +0.2vdc (5.6vdc vs. 5.8vdc) for the new zener diode was only 4% (rounded) over the stock value and was worth the test if nothing else. From how the machine is "acting" upon power up, what I am thinking is happening, is the voltage is triggering the LM311 switch (causing the screen flicker) but the current LM311 may have already served it's life (burnt out, non functional). The newer MPU (904 and greater) revisions that have the socket vs hard-wired, like Gary's board that he repaired successfully by replacing LM311 (via socket vs hard-wired/soldered) was becoming a common failure point and needed a simpler solution for fixing. PnP vs re-working the board would have definitely saved a lot of time for on-site service call's, down time and made for better profit. Just a thought.


Had to edit multiple parts of my sentence structure for it to all make sense.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: dormi on December 01, 2015, 06:12:12 PM
If all else fails I can repair your board for a very reasonable flat rate charge send a PM for details
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Yoeddy1 on December 01, 2015, 06:29:14 PM
Take my advice, send dormi a PM.  He will take REALLY good care of you and is ultra knowledgeable about CEI machines.  One of the most honest guys out here.  He fixed my CEI years ago and it ran perfectly when I got it back.

Thanks,
Jason
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: SolidSilver on December 05, 2015, 01:35:42 PM
Yes indeed, most highly recommend Dave Ormiston (dormi).
Most of what little I know of CEI stuff came from him, and he's the most prompt,
highest quality, and least expensive board guy around.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on December 09, 2015, 04:15:19 AM
Quick update, I received the LM311 that Gary sent to me yesterday with the socket and performed the replacement with the same results. Kind of a bummer, but I'll keep plugging away. Have been spending time getting some outdoor gear up and running for the winter months and have not really spent any additional time troubleshooting the machine. I may try swapping some capacitors over the next few days and send Dormi a pm to see if he can provide some further insight.


Hope all is well with everyone.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on December 09, 2015, 08:20:06 AM
Good to see you sticking with it, some problems are harder than others. It was mentioned in another repair thread that the sockets on the board for the eproms sometimes cause intermittent connections. You might examine them carefully to see if they show signs of tarnish or corroding, not shiny.

Over the years the metal socket contacts can tarnish. Some brands of sockets use tin contacts and the finish on them can fade after a many years. That's a bigger job to replace a socket, but you can take your time to replace them and not damage the board. After removing the solder I like to take tweezers and wiggle the leg on the back of the board to make sure it is loose and not stuck in the board thru-hole. That prevents tearing up the board when lifting out and removing the old socket.

Also, after you replaced the LM311 did you try setting the adjustment pot all the way in the other direction, just in case that's where it needs to be?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on December 21, 2015, 05:53:31 PM
(http://newlifegames.com/nlg/webkit-fake-url://56a4cd9a-76e6-4c0e-90a5-eab67c0406cc/imagegif)

Any news on the CEI ?
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on December 21, 2015, 10:20:03 PM
([url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/webkit-fake-url://56a4cd9a-76e6-4c0e-90a5-eab67c0406cc/imagegif[/url])

Any news on the CEI ?



There is news. I had listed my machine for sale... There is an interested buyer who needs a working screen which I am sure mine is working (locally). I am not able to get my machine going and someone else can get theirs working, all the power to us. He has the identical machine but with a bad screen/tube monitor. Disappointing I am sure, considering all of the work we have put into it, but it is what it is without knowing better.


There is nothing for sure as of yet, waiting for the sale tomorrow afternoon. Either way though, someone is going to get their old cei back up and running.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on December 21, 2015, 10:28:28 PM
Good luck with the sale. I know when you bought it you had hopes to get it running but sometimes these older machines can be tough, especially for anyone new to them or without resources nearby to cut down on costs. If you look into getting another used machine sometime it would probably help for you to show photos of it here and ask for comments, things to check and so forth before you buy it. And you can figure there is almost always going to be unknown problems and associated costs, that's just part of this hobby.

After the new owner gets his other machine working he may then work on the one you sell him. He'll have his other machine as an aid for troubleshooting, that is very helpful.

Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on December 21, 2015, 10:59:37 PM
Good luck with the sale. I know when you bought it you had hopes to get it running but sometimes these older machines can be tough, especially for anyone new to them or without resources nearby to cut down on costs. If you look into getting another used machine sometime it would probably help for you to show photos of it here and ask for comments, things to check and so forth before you buy it. And you can figure there is almost always going to be unknown problems and associated costs, that's just part of this hobby.

After the new owner gets his other machine working he may then work on the one you sell him. He'll have his other machine as an aid for troubleshooting, that is very helpful.


After all is said and done it would have been "cool" to have met up to troubleshoot our machines together. It is quite coincidental to have met up with someone around this area to have the identical machine that needs the working parts from my machine to replace from his non working parts. Hope this is all describable. What a bummer in a way, but in another, cool for the other guy. Really had hoped to get this ol' girl up and running for Christmas and all.


20 years+ in the hardware industry and still finding things I can't repair.........
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: rokgpsman on December 22, 2015, 09:10:53 AM
He might be agreeable to give you a call or an email, if you ask him to, to let you know if he does get your old machine fixed and what the problem was. If yours is in better condition appearance-wise than his he may decide to fix it first rather than his.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on December 22, 2015, 01:13:21 PM
It would be nice to know what the problem was. I had on old "Status" video poker machine (look it up here... LONG thread as well). I was about to give up and sell after leaving it sit covered for a month. Another NLG member posted a suggestion for me to look again at my mpu. So, for the zillionth time I looked, but this time I decided to "feel it out." There were 3 or 4 voltage regulators with the heat sink on them. All were warm, except for one! I checked the voltage in, which was 12vdc. It was supposed to have 5 on the output but it measured 0. I drove to my local electronics store, found the proper part and replaced the other. Switched on the power and ... got a deck of cards and a working machine, once I adjusted the video settings.
Soooooooooooooooo food for thought in case you don't sell it.

Well my reply just made your thread TEN pages long.  Keep the machine! Keep the machine!  :hissyfit:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: Amechanic on December 22, 2015, 01:40:57 PM
I've had a CEI here for about 6 months now. It has a bad picture, all washed out and shifted to one side. I recently was doing a repair on one similar to mine. I pulled my monitor assembly out and put it in the repair job to see if my problem moved with the monitor, and it did. So now I knows problem lays in the CRT chassis. I'll give it the once over for any obvious problem, if none seen ill try new caps. I hate giving up on a machine. Sometimes the best thing to do is walk away from it for a while and clear your head..
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on December 22, 2015, 01:57:50 PM
I know I will probably regret it, but the guy is suppose to be here within an hour for pickup...
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: RPMcKenna1976 on December 22, 2015, 03:03:10 PM
Ok, so the machine is sold and out the door, BUT, he will test the machine with his mpu and let me know the results over the next week or two when he gets around to testing it. I'll update everyone then. He may end up just keeping the machine I sold him with the swapped game board.


Sorry if anyone out there is feeling let down but at least there will be one good machine out of the two at the end of it all.
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on December 23, 2015, 05:45:52 PM
So if you had only one good kidney, would you sell it? That way there would also be one good machine. :rotfl:
Kidding!
Keep us posted if you find out. I hope the new owner will join NLG and try fixing it !  :applause:
Title: Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
Post by: shortrackskater on February 02, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
Ok, so the machine is sold and out the door, BUT, he will test the machine with his mpu and let me know the results over the next week or two when he gets around to testing it. I'll update everyone then. He may end up just keeping the machine I sold him with the swapped game board.


Sorry if anyone out there is feeling let down but at least there will be one good machine out of the two at the end of it all.


Been a week ... Month... ?
We'd love to know what happened.