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Author Topic: 955 Low Boy Major Short  (Read 13825 times)

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Offline Jon

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2017, 08:04:04 AM »
Mark you better go recheck yellow to Blue

Offline capt7310

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2017, 08:13:58 AM »
Funny you should say that but last night I thought he same. I went to yellow wires now and I'm now looking for any issues with those wires. I removed all the bulbs and checked the sockets and wires to the posts. So with the pending snowstorm on the way I'll have plenty of time to continue this adventure.


Nice to hear from Jon. Hope your feeling better I'll call you later


Thanks Paul

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2017, 02:00:19 PM »
So I think it's the hopper here maybe why. I started to test the yellow wires on the hopper and the relays again.the payout relay was only showing 5.9 ohms so...............


With the toggle switch for power in the OFF position I put the hopper in and the power to the door and coin mech came on.....and the toggle switch is in the OFF position.


I removed the hopper everything went dead and now I flip on the toggle switch to the ON position without the hopper and everything went on placed the hopper in and everything still stayed on...placed the reels in and the fuse popped with the hopper in.


What's the thoughts other than an exorcism ...

Offline DavidLee

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2017, 03:24:37 PM »
Okay, making some progress. Here is how to narrow this down by the process of elimination.
It's going to be a little time consuming, but it might reveal a suspect right away.

The payout relay on the hopper maybe the easiest place to start.
Using copy paper, make some strips that will lay between the contacts.
Big enough to cover the two contacts on each horizontal row and wide enough not to fall out.
Insulate all the contacts with the paper. Replace mechanisms and flip switch in the same sequence.
If the fuse doesn't pop, start removing the paper one row at a time until it does.
In theory this should narrow down the fault.


The same elimination process can be done with the reel mechanism A - B - C switches
Just have to be a little creative on how to keep the paper between the vertical contacts.

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2017, 04:03:46 PM »
Thank Dave that sounds great and I'll try that with the other relay contacts also ,,if the payout comes up a bust.. I'll get to it sometime tommorow or the next day and keep you posted.

Offline DavidLee

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2017, 07:36:41 PM »
Paul,

The payout relay on the hopper and the coin relay on the reel mechanism would be good starting points.
Keep us posted on your progress, will be courious to know what you find.


****************** NOTE of CAUTION **********************


When obstructing the normal path of electricity is a machine. There is a possibility that the current may want to take an alternative route. So use extreme caution when touching a machine while it is turned on.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 05:50:52 AM by DavidLee »

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2017, 06:28:18 AM »
Paul,


I realize some of the contacts may be in the open position. But I would isolate them all just to have 100%
Process of elimination. Ruling out any possibility of a malfunction or piece of debris etc. If the fuse still blows out at least the switches were not the problem.

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2017, 03:48:13 AM »
Dave,


Obviously once I isolate all the contacts I will place the hopper in and power it up. Then remove each paper 1 at a time and keep pulling the hopper in and out to test each contact correct.
I will do this for all the contacts in the hopper. If I come up with no issues then I will move onto the reel bundle and apply the same right.


I will keep all posted. 

Offline DavidLee

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2017, 10:23:36 AM »
Paul,

This post is a little mixed up as I thought of something to try before Isolating the Reels and Hopper.
Read through it and hopefully it will make sense.

Yes, if the contacts are isolated the machine will not recognize the hopper and or reels.
When you pull the papers one at a time it should reveal the problem area. (In Theory)
Not sure which would be the best to start with the reels, hopper or both.
The reels kind of control the machine, coin in and payout wise. It tells the hopper when to pay, so the hopper is sitting idle until a payout.
With the machines short condition its going to be a coin toss where to start. Might isolate both reels and hopper, if the fuse still blows.
It may be a mechanical situation when inserting the reels or hopper.
                               

**********************TRY THIS FIRST, before the isolation process.**********************************
 Try pushing the reels and hopper in slowly until the beau plug first make contact. If the fuse doesn't blow.
Then ease them in the rest of the way. There is a possibility that a wire is moving and causing the short.
If the fuse blows as you push them in further it could be a wire shorting.

If this doesn't pan out, then try the isolation process.
     

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2017, 01:53:27 PM »
A most excellent way to find shorts is to clip one lead of your meter (on ohms) to the frame of your subunit and then touch the other lead to each & every switch & contact on the unit. You can also slowly rake the probe accross your male beau plug pins.
At no time should you get a reading or continuity beep. The bally is designed to have all circuits isolated from case.
If you can't find it in subunits then it's in the cabinet, either case itself or the door. If so then unplug door to further isolate it.
I'm working on a short in a 5l xx machine now, that i suspect is in top unit.
Always look for 'new' added wiring as a first cause. Hope that helps
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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2017, 05:33:14 PM »
Tried the paper method and on the slow push in it pop the fuse. But is this strange or normal After the fuse blew I put a meter on the hopper and it showed 120v now here's what's crazy. I touched the top contact of the payout relay and the hopper started spinning ( with a blown fuse).


Now with the blown fuse,  I started touching the case and all the metal parts and the meter beep.

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2017, 06:12:34 PM »
Making progress!
Sounds like the fuse is bypassed at some point or a crossed wire.
Can you post a photo of the 110 volt wires coming into the machine including the fuse holders.


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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2017, 06:42:24 PM »
I keep going back to the on/off switch that is wired into that machine.. Like I said before, I received a EM years back that someone had removed the reset lock and wired in a on/off toggle switch.. I had to remove that switch and rewire the power cord, because I was getting shocked.. If I remember correct, they had put the on/off switch on the common wire of the power cord only.. They didn't split both the hot, and common wires.. I would consider trying to wire your machine back to it's normal state...

Gary
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If it's jammed, force it.. If it breaks, it needed to be replaced anyways...

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2017, 09:00:23 PM »
Paul,


I see the meter reading in photo 2. Wow, pull all the fuses, curious to see if you still get that reading from the contacts to the hopper frame.
Also looked at an earlier photo of the fuse holder and the power cord. It wasn't real clear, but it appeared the cord did not go directly to the fuse holders. Or where the ground was connected.
If you get a chance post a close up of that area.


Try Mr. Reno's suggestion, clip one side of the meter to the case or unit frame and skip the other end over every exposed beau plug pin, contact blades and coil connection. See if you get a beep. Should be no beep.


I imagine this was a big safety concern as not to fry any customers while they were on a machine!


I do this with the little light tester when tracing out wires, works great and it's easy to do.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 04:02:22 PM by DavidLee »

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2017, 04:02:35 PM »
Dave,

Yes WOW, I removed all the fuses and the switch in the off position put the hopper in I could hear the machine with a slight hum. Put the meter on and got 120.4v. Removed 3 fuses looking left to rt at the fuse block no power put the hopper in fuse blew. First fuse out again looking left to rt put hopper in fuse blew.
I can take a screwdriver place it on the contact from the payout relay with a blown fuse and the power switch off and the hopper will spin.
I have only one wire on the last fuse which is black wire and the 3rd from left to rt has 2 wires, a red wire and the other is a white wire with a blue tracer the 2nd fuse is 1 solid orange and 2 orange with a red tracer and the first is blue wires.
I'm ready to remove the whole fuse block and start over.

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2017, 04:09:18 PM »
Dave


Just saw your post is it possible that the fuse block is wired wrong from your pic. I think you have a 3 block fuse panel while mine is 4.


Always hoping for that simply find. I know Jon had mentioned several times that it's going to be right there and had did I miss that. LMK

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2017, 04:23:27 PM »
Paul,

Wiring doesn't look right on the fuses. See attached photo.
The other side of the black 110 fuse has the White Blue wire.
Same wire that goes to the payout relay to run hopper motor I believe.

White neutral 110 volt wire connects to red. Check the red wire on that fuse to see if it leads to the service outlet top left near the hinge or right rear above fuses. If you get a beep from that red wire to one side of the service outlet, Then that is a good indication it should be connected to the white neutral.

The other two fuses protect the 6 volt blue and 50 volt orange.

Need to sort out the wiring on your fuses.

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2017, 04:26:20 PM »
What is the White cord wire connected to?

Looks like you need to move the white blue wire over to the right fuse holder with the black wire.

If the red checks out, then most likely should be connected to the white neutral wire.

The other 2 fuses look right, but I'll take another look at your photos.

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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2017, 05:33:54 PM »
Does it only blow fuse when there is a pay?
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Re: 955 Low Boy Major Short
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2017, 05:40:00 PM »
Dave,
The white wire coming off the power cord is connected to one white lead off the molex connector and a white jumper off the on/off switch.The red is connected to the black wires.

 

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