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Author Topic: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!  (Read 57548 times)

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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #120 on: November 22, 2015, 09:06:28 PM »
U78 measures 13.8vdc


Weird thing powering up the machine this time though, the screen was displaying something a little different this time. Still no image or sounds but the flickering appeared different. Nothing to get too excited about, just figured I would make mention of it.
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #121 on: November 22, 2015, 09:15:59 PM »
CR64 is unclear but from what I can make out there is a letter H on the outside glass and I seen a number three on the inside. Does this make sense?


I had to use a 10x jewellers loop to make it out.
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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #122 on: November 22, 2015, 09:42:12 PM »
CR64 is unclear but from what I can make out there is a letter H on the outside glass and I seen a number three on the inside. Does this make sense?

I had to use a 10x jewellers loop to make it out.
Sometimes they are hard to read, and that may be the date of manufacture code you are seeing, the part number might be on the underside. The actual part number shown on the drawing is "1N4734A" and that is a standard part number, we used them a lot where I used to work. If the soldering on CR64 legs looks original then it is probably the right part, if the soldering looks like someone worked on it later then it might have been changed.
 
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #123 on: November 22, 2015, 09:46:18 PM »
U78 measures 13.8vdc

Weird thing powering up the machine this time though, the screen was displaying something a little different this time. Still no image or sounds but the flickering appeared different. Nothing to get too excited about, just figured I would make mention of it.

I wonder if that display difference might be due to your cleaning efforts on the board?? Earlier when you were lightly sanding the legs on various ic's did you see any corrosion that looked like water damage, or was it just tarnish from all the years?

The schematic shows U78-8 getting 12vdc power, same for R16, I thought it would be the 12vdc regulated you measured on the backplane/motherboard 7812 part, which was right on the money at 12vdc. If you want to you can go back and double-check the 12vdc regulated on the backplane, see if it has changed, it was the 3 legged part marked with "7812", in upper left corner of that board, above C3.

Does you machine have a "Test" button or switch somewhere inside, with the door open, maybe behind the upper door? I've been reading some about that, it may not be in your machine. On machines that have a "Test" button it will put the mpu into a test mode and you have to hit a certain button combination on the player buttons to exit it and resume normal game play.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 09:43:36 AM by rokgpsman »
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2015, 09:59:35 PM »
CR64 is unclear but from what I can make out there is a letter H on the outside glass and I seen a number three on the inside. Does this make sense?

I had to use a 10x jewellers loop to make it out.
Sometimes they are hard to read, and that may be the date of manufacture code you are seeing, the part number might be on the underside. The actual part number shown on the drawing is "1N4734A" and that is a standard part number, we used them a lot where I used to work. If the soldering on CR64 legs looks original then it is probably the right part, if the soldering looks like someone worked on it later then it might have been changed.


Looks to be original joints.


Just finished swapping out the 16v 10uf cap beside the sound chip with the same results. After removing the lead to U78 pin 8 the screen reverted to it's previous state.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2015, 10:50:48 PM »
I located this power supply schematic during some internet searching just now. It is from a 1981 Omega Products Derringer Cabinet but I would assume it would be close to most arcade motherboards from the era.


Hopefully this helps us or someone else out.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #126 on: November 23, 2015, 12:17:42 AM »
ok, thanks! There sure are a lot of variations on these Cal Omega/CEI machines.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2015, 09:47:11 AM »
Can you post a photo of the backside of the mpu board showing the solder pads and board traces for CR10 and CR11?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 10:02:42 AM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2015, 10:42:40 AM »
Can you post a photo of the backside of the mpu board showing the solder pads and board traces for CR10 and CR11?


My apologize, I meant to take that photo a day or two back for you.


Here is the original and edited photo as well as the entire back side of the mpu.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2015, 10:44:19 AM »
More mpu photos:
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2015, 01:18:06 PM »
Ok, thanks, I'll give them a look. I'm wondering about some of the readings you got, like the one across CR10-CR11. And those R16 voltages too.

Also, can you confirm if you have that "Test" button inside the machine? Something I read said it was behind "the upper door"?? But it might be in lower cabinet or elsewhere.

That voltage across CR10 and CR11 looks wrong. It should be 5vdc, I think you measured less than that the other day but I don't know how critical the value is. I've put notes on your photo below, plus posted a portion of the hard to read 903 mpu schematic showing CR10 and CR11. The schematic is grainy. CR11 is a zener diode, that is a type of diode that holds a constant voltage on its cathode. By connecting CR10 to the top of it the way they did that adds another .7vdc, giving a total regulated 5vdc source across both CR10 and CR11 for powering the mpu video circuits. (a conducting diode will have a constant voltage drop of .7 volts). I don't think this is keeping your mpu from working, not really sure, but it could cause the video image to be weak or poor quality. You have already measured across CR11 by itself, it should have been 4.3vdc. So CR11 might be bad. You can also check the 2 resistors (R37, R38) connected to CR10, CR11, I think they are 47 ohms but it is hard to read. Your meter should have a resistance measuring feature to check resistors. You can try measuring the resistors while installed in the board but the most accurate measurement method is to desolder one end of a resistor and lift that leg from the board to isolate the part while measuring it.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 02:13:41 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2015, 05:19:42 PM »
Ok, thanks, I'll give them a look. I'm wondering about some of the readings you got, like the one across CR10-CR11. And those R16 voltages too.

Also, can you confirm if you have that "Test" button inside the machine? Something I read said it was behind "the upper door"?? But it might be in lower cabinet or elsewhere.

That voltage across CR10 and CR11 looks wrong. It should be 5vdc, I think you measured less than that the other day but I don't know how critical the value is. I've put notes on your photo below, plus posted a portion of the hard to read 903 mpu schematic showing CR10 and CR11. The schematic is grainy. CR11 is a zener diode, that is a type of diode that holds a constant voltage on its cathode. By connecting CR10 to the top of it the way they did that adds another .7vdc, giving a total regulated 5vdc source across both CR10 and CR11 for powering the mpu video circuits. (a conducting diode will have a constant voltage drop of .7 volts). I don't think this is keeping your mpu from working, not really sure, but it could cause the video image to be weak or poor quality. You have already measured across CR11 by itself, it should have been 4.3vdc. So CR11 might be bad. You can also check the 2 resistors (R37, R38) connected to CR10, CR11, I think they are 47 ohms but it is hard to read. Your meter should have a resistance measuring feature to check resistors. You can try measuring the resistors while installed in the board but the most accurate measurement method is to desolder one end of a resistor and lift that leg from the board to isolate the part while measuring it.


I seen this post prior to the edit. I'll have to read and go through the info and get back to you asap.


I spent a little bit of time working on some other aspects of the system today mainly focusing on the front panel lights as they were/are dim and inconsistent. Maybe relating to a power supply issue. Additional info may help to determine this machines problem (maybe).


I posted this in the FAQ What Is a KAR board in hopes that someone can help with a cross reference:


"Can someone out there with a KAR board help me out with measuring the DC Voltage? I have been troubleshooting a machine that has one and all of the button lights are dim.

The resistors all have continuity but two of them are missing most of the ceramic coating from time and heat. If I bypass the resistor with a line of solder some of the lights work nice and bright as I assume they should.

My KAR board measures 9.0vdc

If someone out there could help me to cross reference, it would be greatly appreciated."
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2015, 05:57:11 PM »
CR11 measures 3.52vdc


Previous measurement for CR10 and CR11 together was 4.1vdc the measurement was double checked


From the measurements, it would indicate a discrepancy of -0.78vdc +/- on the zener diode.


A question though, even with lower than normal power between CR10-CR11 in theory, the game board "should" still power up with at least audio of some sort (coin-op). There is a buzzing coming from the audio when the machine is powered up, when adjusting the audio pot to off the sound goes away.


I do have the test switch located in the lower half of the cabinet but it appears to have no functionality at the moment.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2015, 06:31:20 PM »
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2015, 07:19:43 PM »
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.


I certainly appreciate the offer but as far as I am aware the 906 mpu boards will not work on the older motherboards but the older mpu boards will work with the newer motherboards . I recall seeing this somewhere on this forum.


I did find a 904 mpu on the bay in untested condition tonight with the same 7.6 eprom game on board as what my machine was designed for. Kinda sitting on the fence about it though. Untested is still a gamble but I might be able to make one good mpu out of the two..?


Really appreciate the offer though.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2015, 07:36:08 PM »
I'm gonna dig back to the archive site and see exactly what board I used to have in mine. I could have sworn it was a 904 and was replaced with a 906. Hang on! Well it might be a while... gotta eat dinner and watch a movie!
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #136 on: November 23, 2015, 07:42:32 PM »
CR11 measures 3.52vdc

Previous measurement for CR10 and CR11 together was 4.1vdc the measurement was double checked

From the measurements, it would indicate a discrepancy of -0.78vdc +/- on the zener diode.

A question though, even with lower than normal power between CR10-CR11 in theory, the game board "should" still power up with at least audio of some sort (coin-op). There is a buzzing coming from the audio when the machine is powered up, when adjusting the audio pot to off the sound goes away.

I do have the test switch located in the lower half of the cabinet but it appears to have no functionality at the moment.

I agree, the voltage across CR10-CR11 is likely low due to a weak CR11. A zener diode can fade this way after several years. The CR11 part number looks like it is 1N4731A, hard to read but that would be a 4.3v zener.  I don't know if I'd bother to replace it at this point unless you have a handy electronics store. The 5vdc that CR10-CR11 along with R37, R38 make is called the Vvid power, as far as I can tell Vvid is only used by the Red, Green, Blue video drive circuit. This voltage could affect picture quality but I don't see how it would keep your machine from running. If you do replace CR11 sometime you'll want to first make sure R37, R38 are correct 47 ohm, if they have increased much in resistance over the years they could "starve" the CR10-CR11 circuit and it would measure lower.

It is interesting to note that this CR10-CR11, R37, R38 circuit is not present on the 904 mpu board drawing. The 904 video output Red, Grn, Blue circuit uses normal 5vdc instead of this special Vvid 5vdc. Maybe on the early 903 boards they worried about the picture getting interference noise so they ran the Red,Grn,Blue circuit off its own little power supply. Just a guess.

That is a nice offer from Shortrackskater, I recommend you take him up on it. His mpu is a known good board, that way you'd know if your mpu is the problem or not. 
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2015, 07:45:37 PM »
Crap! Well I found it right away... it looks like I may have always had a 906III (non turbo) board in my machine. It was made in 1985. But I can plug in a much newer 906 turbo board and the poker games work but the buttons aren't matched exactly with the video display.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #138 on: November 23, 2015, 07:48:24 PM »
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.

I certainly appreciate the offer but as far as I am aware the 906 mpu boards will not work on the older motherboards but the older mpu boards will work with the newer motherboards . I recall seeing this somewhere on this forum.

I did find a 904 mpu on the bay in untested condition tonight with the same 7.6 eprom game on board as what my machine was designed for. Kinda sitting on the fence about it though. Untested is still a gamble but I might be able to make one good mpu out of the two..?

Really appreciate the offer though.

Dang- too bad your setup is not compatible with a 906 mpu. I'd be careful about getting an untested mpu and hoping for the best, you may end up with 2 headaches. Might contact the seller and see if he can tell you anything about it. I suppose if the price is low enough it is worth a shot though.

If I understand right, you would need either another 903 or a 904 mpu?

My knowledge on this is poor, but I saw it mentioned that the Test switch in the machine invokes special diagnostic software present in the eprom game software. It lets you test many operating functions and also do a screen alignment by throwing up a test pattern. Then to exit this Test mode you press buttons 1,3,5 at the same time, or something like that. Below is a Cal Omega manual, starting on page 7 is a description of Test mode.

This builtin Test mode is different from the Test Prom, which is a special eprom you install on the mpu. I guess it does more involved testing or perhaps lets you see stuff when the mpu isn't working right. The Test Prom is installed at board eprom location U9, you set dipswitch #2 position 6 to on and power up the machine. The Test Prom runs instead of game software and you get a technical display showing certain things. Attached below is a guide for using the Test Prom.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 08:07:20 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #139 on: November 23, 2015, 08:16:36 PM »
.....I spent a little bit of time working on some other aspects of the system today mainly focusing on the front panel lights as they were/are dim and inconsistent. Maybe relating to a power supply issue. Additional info may help to determine this machines problem (maybe).....

From what I understand the machine will work ok with the KAR board removed, it was just added to lengthen the life of the pushbutton lamps. When the lamp is supposed to be ON the KAR board is bypassed. When the lamp is supposed to be OFF the KAR board resistors are connected in such a way that the lamps get a small amount of electricity, enough they will lightly glow, in order to keep them from going completely off and getting cold. You can try removing the KAR board and see if the button lamps work better or not. I don't think it affects the lamps when they are ON, but I might be mistaken.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 12:07:42 AM by rokgpsman »
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