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Author Topic: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!  (Read 57617 times)

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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #140 on: November 23, 2015, 11:14:04 PM »
Crap! Well I found it right away... it looks like I may have always had a 906III (non turbo) board in my machine. It was made in 1985. But I can plug in a much newer 906 turbo board and the poker games work but the buttons aren't matched exactly with the video display.


Mark,


Thanks a lot for taking the time to see what board you have, and for the offer. I'll have to check and see if the board is compatible or not, but I do not believe it is. I am sure SolidSilver made note of this somewhere.


Rick.
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #141 on: November 23, 2015, 11:28:20 PM »
Want me to mail you my 906 turbo board? I think it should work sort of...at least the poker game should. I don't know where you live though but you're welcome to borrow it...just pay shipping up and back.

I certainly appreciate the offer but as far as I am aware the 906 mpu boards will not work on the older motherboards but the older mpu boards will work with the newer motherboards . I recall seeing this somewhere on this forum.

I did find a 904 mpu on the bay in untested condition tonight with the same 7.6 eprom game on board as what my machine was designed for. Kinda sitting on the fence about it though. Untested is still a gamble but I might be able to make one good mpu out of the two..?

Really appreciate the offer though.

Dang- too bad your setup is not compatible with a 906 mpu. I'd be careful about getting an untested mpu and hoping for the best, you may end up with 2 headaches. Might contact the seller and see if he can tell you anything about it. I suppose if the price is low enough it is worth a shot though.

If I understand right, you would need either another 903 or a 904 mpu?

My knowledge on this is poor, but I saw it mentioned that the Test switch in the machine invokes special diagnostic software present in the eprom game software. It lets you test many operating functions and also do a screen alignment by throwing up a test pattern. Then to exit this Test mode you press buttons 1,3,5 at the same time, or something like that. Below is a Cal Omega manual, starting on page 7 is a description of Test mode.

This builtin Test mode is different from the Test Prom, which is a special eprom you install on the mpu. I guess it does more involved testing or perhaps lets you see stuff when the mpu isn't working right. The Test Prom is installed at board eprom location U9, you set dipswitch #2 position 6 to on and power up the machine. The Test Prom runs instead of game software and you get a technical display showing certain things. Attached below is a guide for using the Test Prom.


I read through the attached pdf's that you posted, some good information there that I will be double checking tomorrow (technically later today for me).


I pulled CR10 and CR11 earlier and found another zener diode that measures 5.8vdc, I know it's not quite the 5vdc that it is suppose to be, but it is close enough that it should not hurt anything. Set dip #2 sw6 to ON and still have the same results. Nothing blew up at least!


I replaced CR11 with the new zener diode and just bridged the gap for CR10.


More testing tomorrow.


By the way, thanks for checking into the KAR board. I should post a pic of mine in the FAQ for reference. The revision is the same but my resistor set is only 6 total and are different ohms.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #142 on: November 24, 2015, 09:41:25 AM »
Crap! Well I found it right away... it looks like I may have always had a 906III (non turbo) board in my machine. It was made in 1985. But I can plug in a much newer 906 turbo board and the poker games work but the buttons aren't matched exactly with the video display.

Mark,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to see what board you have, and for the offer. I'll have to check and see if the board is compatible or not, but I do not believe it is. I am sure SolidSilver made note of this somewhere.
Rick.

I just PM's member "doyson" who also helped with the CEI. I always forget if it was him or "dormi" who send me the board. I think I'm losing my mind. Hopefully one or both of them will chime in.
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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #143 on: November 24, 2015, 09:41:49 AM »
From reading some of the stuff I've found I believe the dipswitch 2, position #6 switch is for troubleshooting use, like when the Test Prom is installed, maybe otherwise too. It disables the Reset circuit U34. The Test Prom guide refers to it at the top of page 1.
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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #144 on: November 24, 2015, 01:57:40 PM »
.....By the way, thanks for checking into the KAR board. I should post a pic of mine in the FAQ for reference. The revision is the same but my resistor set is only 6 total and are different ohms.

What are your KAR board resistor values, did you check them with a meter and did that match the color banding? Can you post a photo of your KAR, looking straight at the resistors? Thanks.

Also, did you remeasure the lamp power on the KAR board, is it really only 9vdc? The lamp power voltage is on the board trace that connects to all of the resistors on one side of the board. I believe the lamp power comes to the KAR board on your motherboard KAR board connector J103 pin 12. Even though this lamp power voltage is DC it is isolated from the normal DC ground return. So to get an accurate measurement your meter black lead will have to be on the lamp voltage return line, which is the negative end of that big black cap (I think it is C4, 2200 uf, 25v on your motherboard) mounted near the fuses. When you checked the voltage across motherboard C4 a few days ago I think it was close to 18vdc. That is the lamp power.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 02:16:03 PM by rokgpsman »
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #145 on: November 24, 2015, 04:06:43 PM »
.....By the way, thanks for checking into the KAR board. I should post a pic of mine in the FAQ for reference. The revision is the same but my resistor set is only 6 total and are different ohms.

What are your KAR board resistor values, did you check them with a meter and did that match the color banding? Can you post a photo of your KAR, looking straight at the resistors? Thanks.

Also, did you remeasure the lamp power on the KAR board, is it really only 9vdc? The lamp power voltage is on the board trace that connects to all of the resistors on one side of the board. I believe the lamp power comes to the KAR board on your motherboard KAR board connector J103 pin 12. Even though this lamp power voltage is DC it is isolated from the normal DC ground return. So to get an accurate measurement your meter black lead will have to be on the lamp voltage return line, which is the negative end of that big black cap (I think it is C4, 2200 uf, 25v on your motherboard) mounted near the fuses. When you checked the voltage across motherboard C4 a few days ago I think it was close to 18vdc. That is the lamp power.


C4 measures 14.1vdc


Verified the KAR board is measuring at 9vdc


I'll have to go through the thread to find the first test settings and report back.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #146 on: November 24, 2015, 04:12:49 PM »
In post #69 these were the voltages measured:


C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc


Would it be safe to assume that C4 is failing if today's measurement is only 14.1vdc??
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 05:03:58 PM by RPMcKenna1976 »
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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #147 on: November 24, 2015, 04:51:43 PM »
In post #69 these were the voltages measured:

C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc

Would it be safe to assume that C4 is failing if today's measurement is only 14.1vdc??

Possibly, it isn't hard to change if you want to. It measured almost 18vdc the other day, now it is about 14vdc. Does it look leaky, bulging on the ends or around the middle? But before you replace it we can make other checks. For one thing you can measure it again but with the KAR board removed in case the KAR is loading it down. You don't need that KAR board in there for the machine to operate, I'd take it out until you get the machine running, eliminate one potential source of a problem.

If the drawings I have are similar to what your machine is the lamp voltage on motherboard capacitor C4 is created by the rectifier part CR3, located in the upper corner of the motherboard. It has a black metal heatsink covering the part so you won't be able to measure directly on it. There is a fuse mounted just below it, I'd assume it is part of that circuit but I didn't see a F# next to it in your photo. You could measure the voltage on that fuse, it may be a dc voltage if it is on the output of CR3, or it may be ac voltage if in the input side of CR3. My drawing is for a different motherboard than yours, not quite the same. Any measurements you make on the lamp voltage will need to have your meter black lead connected to the neg leg of motherboard C4, that is the low side (return side) of that circuit, it is isolated from the other voltages. Anyway, the amount of dc voltage coming out of CR3 will determine how much voltage is on capacitor C4. What's the situation with your button lamps now, do they switch on and off as you press them? This button problem may not matter until the machine is operating.

What is the link to that ebay 904 (903?) mpu you mentioned, I'd like to take a closer look at it. This thread is now so long I'm having trouble remembering details from earlier. sigh.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 05:13:49 PM by rokgpsman »
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #148 on: November 24, 2015, 05:32:38 PM »
In post #69 these were the voltages measured:

C5 Capacitor = 13.7vdc
Regulator to C5 ground = 0 (no reading, double checked)
C4 Capacitor = 17.75vdc
VR1 (above C3) = 12.06vdc

Would it be safe to assume that C4 is failing if today's measurement is only 14.1vdc??


Possibly, it isn't hard to change if you want to. It measured almost 18vdc the other day, now it is about 14vdc. Does it look leaky, bulging on the ends or around the middle? But before you replace it we can make other checks. For one thing you can measure it again but with the KAR board removed in case the KAR is loading it down. You don't need that KAR board in there for the machine to operate, I'd take it out until you get the machine running, eliminate one potential source of a problem.

If the drawings I have are similar to what your machine is the lamp voltage on motherboard capacitor C4 is created by the rectifier part CR3, located in the upper corner of the motherboard. It has a black metal heatsink covering the part so you won't be able to measure directly on it. There is a fuse mounted just below it, I'd assume it is part of that circuit but I didn't see a F# next to it in your photo. You could measure the voltage on that fuse, it may be a dc voltage if it is on the output of CR3, or it may be ac voltage if in the input side of CR3. My drawing is for a different motherboard than yours, not quite the same. Any measurements you make on the lamp voltage will need to have your meter black lead connected to the neg leg of motherboard C4, that is the low side (return side) of that circuit, it is isolated from the other voltages. Anyway, the amount of dc voltage coming out of CR3 will determine how much voltage is on capacitor C4. What's the situation with your button lamps now, do they switch on and off as you press them? This button problem may not matter until the machine is operating.

What is the link to that ebay 904 (903?) mpu you mentioned, I'd like to take a closer look at it. This thread is now so long I'm having trouble remembering details from earlier. sigh.



Without the KAR board plugged in C4 measures 14.8vdc. C4 appears to be in good physical condition, no bulging or leaking.


With the KAR board removed, the buttons do not light up at all. I believe the KAR only has functionality for the lights.


I'll try to get the rest of the measurements by the end of the night or sooner if possible.


Both of the following boards that I linked to have obvious problems and would only be for parts. Shipping is $45 to Canada. I really can't foresee myself purchasing either of them.


Link for a 903 board:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Untested-Arcade-Game-Board-Omega-See-Photos/131648568301?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D84c877fcac8d4a6f9801ce59f58c4bc1%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131655578752


Link for 904 mpu:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omega-904-Arcade-Game-Boards-See-Photos/131655578752?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D84c877fcac8d4a6f9801ce59f58c4bc1%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131655578752
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Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #149 on: November 24, 2015, 05:49:24 PM »
Sheesh... A little steep on shipping for those boards. :(
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #150 on: November 24, 2015, 06:12:15 PM »
Sheesh... A little steep on shipping for those boards. :(

yeah, I forgot that RPM was up in Canada and the high shipping costs have been mentioned many times here in the past by other folks from up there. Some are lucky and live close enough to the US border that they used to have stuff sent to a PO box or other convenient place on the US side, then just drive over. I don't know if that has changed nowadays.

That guy has "Make Offer" on the 903 board, there may not be much interest in it, so he might take a lot less for it. But if it's a dud then there you are. 

« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 07:33:54 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #151 on: November 24, 2015, 11:34:00 PM »
.....With the KAR board removed, the buttons do not light up at all. I believe the KAR only has functionality for the lights......

yes, the KAR is only for the button lamps, and that is only when the lamps are off. The KAR is bypassed when the button lamps are on, they are controlled by the mpu board when on. The mpu sends full lamp voltage to the button lamps to turn them on. The reason your buttons are not lighting up correctly is probably because your mpu isn't running, not because of the KAR board.

Checkout this post, Shortrackskater has a CEI/Cal Omega machine that works fine but does not have a KAR board installed. Your machine is older and different from his in some ways, but doesn't seem likely the KAR board function would be much different. But I wish we had better manuals or drawings to know more.

Okay as you all know...or not... I have a perfectly functioning CEI Video Poker game. Just noticed a connector on the back panel that says "KAR BOARD."
What does the KAR board do?  :Scratch-Head:

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=1673.msg8473#msg8473
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 09:35:28 AM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #152 on: November 25, 2015, 12:49:37 AM »
Since we are running out of ideas you might consider replacing the LM311 chip U37. It is located on the mpu board near adjustment pot R33. It is only 8 legs, maybe not too hard to replace and Amechanic reports that replacing it fixed his machine.

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2562.msg13710#msg13710

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #153 on: November 25, 2015, 04:06:03 AM »
It sure did!! I think I mentioned this earlier in this post. My machine also did not have the KAR board. From what I have read or heard about them is that they kept a small amout of voltage running thru the deck button bulb circuit. It was used to extend the life of the bulbs from constant on/off of casino life. I believe that I may still have a few of the U37 LM311 chips here. My board had a socket already installed, so it make you think it could be a problem spot on these MPU boards..

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #154 on: November 25, 2015, 08:58:57 AM »
Since we are running out of ideas you might consider replacing the LM311 chip U37. It is located on the mpu board near adjustment pot R33. It is only 8 legs, maybe not too hard to replace and Amechanic reports that replacing it fixed his machine.

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2562.msg13710#msg13710



I am getting the same feeling. I did read through Gary's post and it looked promising for a potential fix for this machine.


It sure did!! I think I mentioned this earlier in this post. My machine also did not have the KAR board. From what I have read or heard about them is that they kept a small amout of voltage running thru the deck button bulb circuit. It was used to extend the life of the bulbs from constant on/off of casino life. I believe that I may still have a few of the U37 LM311 chips here. My board had a socket already installed, so it make you think it could be a problem spot on these MPU boards..

Gary



Gary, if you happen to have a spare LM311, would you consider selling one to me?


My board does not have the socket style but I am sure I can make it work. Or can someone post a link to where I might be able to purchase a compatible LM311 for my mpu?


I did run the machine last night without the game eprom and sound chip installed and had the exact same issue, scrolling screen with a flash every second or so with buzzing sound. I did this with a combination of chips and had some varying results.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #155 on: November 25, 2015, 09:52:01 AM »
.....My board does not have the socket style but I am sure I can make it work. Or can someone post a link to where I might be able to purchase a compatible LM311 for my mpu?

The LM311 chip is available from many sources, but some of them may have a minimum order amount, plus shipping cost to Canada might be higher than reasonable. eBay may have the best price, not sure, and there is an eBay Canada, there might be sellers there located in Canada so wouldn't have international shipping. Also, you may have electronics stores in Canada that you can get it from. Amateur radio stores also carry electronic parts. And someone here on NLG might have one they could mail to you.

Here is what you are looking for. You will want the DIP style, not SOIC. DIP style has legs long enough to insert thru the board for soldering, on the SOIC style the legs are made for surface mount soldering, they lay flat on top of the board.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM311N-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rM8pMfn3Xc4QRfg1fRY5SUbY%3d

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_23528_-1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=LM311&_sop=15


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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #156 on: November 25, 2015, 09:55:56 AM »
.....My board does not have the socket style but I am sure I can make it work. Or can someone post a link to where I might be able to purchase a compatible LM311 for my mpu?


The LM311 chip is available from many sources, but some of them may have a minimum order amount, plus shipping cost to Canada might be higher than reasonable. eBay may have the best price, not sure. But here is what you are looking for. You will want the DIP style, not SOIC. DIP style has legs long enough to insert thru the board for soldering, on the SOIC style the legs are made for surface mount soldering, they lay flat on top of the board.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM311N-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtOXy69nW9rM8pMfn3Xc4QRfg1fRY5SUbY%3d

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_23528_-1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=LM311&_sop=15



Thanks for the links! The LM311 for my 903 mpu would be the SOIC SMT.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #157 on: November 25, 2015, 09:57:26 AM »
.....Thanks for the links! The LM311 for my 903 mpu would be the SOIC SMT.

Are you sure about it being surface mount? That 903 board was made back in the early 1980's??

Here is a photo from earlier in the thread, the LM311 looks to be a DIP. Check on back of board, see if there aren't LM311 legs sticking thru back there.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #158 on: November 25, 2015, 10:43:39 AM »
The LM311 shouldn't be a surface mount but thru the board. If I can locate where I put the extra I bought your welcome to it. I just finished looking in one of my storage places, but no luck yet. I bought mine off Ebay when I did my repair.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #159 on: November 25, 2015, 11:11:49 AM »
WooHoo.. Look what I just found. I can send you one if you give me your address..

Gary
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