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Author Topic: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!  (Read 57559 times)

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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #160 on: November 25, 2015, 11:45:19 AM »
.....Thanks for the links! The LM311 for my 903 mpu would be the SOIC SMT.

Are you sure about it being surface mount? That 903 board was made back in the early 1980's??

Here is a photo from earlier in the thread, the LM311 looks to be a DIP. Check on back of board, see if there aren't LM311 legs sticking thru back there.


Ah yes, you are absolutely correct! I was thinking back to the other day when I had to solder the lead to pin 7 but did it from the top side of the board and in retrospect found it would have been easier to join the lead to the underside.
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #161 on: November 25, 2015, 11:49:37 AM »
WooHoo.. Look what I just found. I can send you one if you give me your address..

Gary


That would be fantastic! I'll send you a pm with my address. Let me know what I owe you for the part and I will send the money  :dancing_2:
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #162 on: November 25, 2015, 12:23:32 PM »
Gary, I sent you my address via pm.


I have one other thought prior to sending the LM311.


Would it be worth while testing the LM311 on your board with continuity having the mpu removed but chip on board and I do the same with mine at this end and make a measurement comparison?


Would this be a reliable/logical way to proceed?
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Offline Amechanic

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #163 on: November 25, 2015, 01:13:44 PM »
I would but that machine was sold last year.
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Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #164 on: November 25, 2015, 05:33:56 PM »
I would but that machine was sold last year.


Gary do you remember what kind of board I sent you a while back? Was it a 904  or 906?
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Offline Amechanic

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #165 on: November 25, 2015, 08:32:18 PM »
I think it was a 906.  I'd have to go out and check in my parts cabinet.

Richard.. Your LM311 chip is in the mail heading your way. I put an 8 leg socket in with the chip. Let me know when they get there. Hopefully they don't get held up in customs.

Gary
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #166 on: November 25, 2015, 09:29:03 PM »
I think it was a 906.  I'd have to go out and check in my parts cabinet.

Richard.. Your LM311 chip is in the mail heading your way. I put an 8 leg socket in with the chip. Let me know when they get there. Hopefully they don't get held up in customs.

Gary


Thanks a bunch Gary! Here's to hoping it will bring this old machine back to functional life! You guys are really going the extra mile here to get this ol'girl up and running  :cool_thumb_up:


I have been reviewing schematics and am wondering if it might be worth while to check the voltage of CR61 zener diode. Schematics show it is suppose to supply 5.6v (not sure if it is ac or dc though) and it connects to U37 pin 2  (LM311). If the zener diode is not supplying 5.6v would lm311 still have some function, or erratic function e.g. send voltage through pin 7 on u37 butt may not be enough  voltage) making lm311 turn on and off randomly??? This could explain the flicker on the screen every second or two.?


When we measured U37 (LM311) pin 7 the voltage was 2.8-2.9vdc and the CR61 zener diode is suppose to supply 5.6v to lm311 pin 2 which then switches to pin 7 on lm311.


Should the output on U37 pin 7 be the same as the output of CR61?
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #167 on: November 25, 2015, 09:58:21 PM »
CR61 measures 4.5vdc


Schematics show it is suppose to produce 5.6vdc which likely explains the low measurement on U37 pin 7.


I may switching the zener diode to a 5.8v that I have here and see what happens.




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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #168 on: November 25, 2015, 10:21:29 PM »
Be careful..  :burningresistor: :burningresistor:
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Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #169 on: November 25, 2015, 10:58:37 PM »
Be careful..  :burningresistor: :burningresistor:


Just performed the swap of the zener diode. Although the machine is not operational (same as before, more or less), there is less noise on the screen and the flicker is about every two seconds now instead of every second. Could just be one more step in the right direction. I am getting the feeling that it is now narrowed down to the LM311 (hopefully).


I felt that +0.2vdc (5.6vdc vs. 5.8vdc) for the new zener diode was only 4% (rounded) over the stock value and was worth the test if nothing else. From how the machine is "acting" upon power up, what I am thinking is happening, is the voltage is triggering the LM311 switch (causing the screen flicker) but the current LM311 may have already served it's life (burnt out, non functional). The newer MPU (904 and greater) revisions that have the socket vs hard-wired, like Gary's board that he repaired successfully by replacing LM311 (via socket vs hard-wired/soldered) was becoming a common failure point and needed a simpler solution for fixing. PnP vs re-working the board would have definitely saved a lot of time for on-site service call's, down time and made for better profit. Just a thought.


Had to edit multiple parts of my sentence structure for it to all make sense.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 02:36:49 AM by RPMcKenna1976 »
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Offline dormi

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #170 on: December 01, 2015, 06:12:12 PM »
If all else fails I can repair your board for a very reasonable flat rate charge send a PM for details

Offline Yoeddy1

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #171 on: December 01, 2015, 06:29:14 PM »
Take my advice, send dormi a PM.  He will take REALLY good care of you and is ultra knowledgeable about CEI machines.  One of the most honest guys out here.  He fixed my CEI years ago and it ran perfectly when I got it back.

Thanks,
Jason


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Offline SolidSilver

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #172 on: December 05, 2015, 01:35:42 PM »
Yes indeed, most highly recommend Dave Ormiston (dormi).
Most of what little I know of CEI stuff came from him, and he's the most prompt,
highest quality, and least expensive board guy around.

Offline RPMcKenna1976

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #173 on: December 09, 2015, 04:15:19 AM »
Quick update, I received the LM311 that Gary sent to me yesterday with the socket and performed the replacement with the same results. Kind of a bummer, but I'll keep plugging away. Have been spending time getting some outdoor gear up and running for the winter months and have not really spent any additional time troubleshooting the machine. I may try swapping some capacitors over the next few days and send Dormi a pm to see if he can provide some further insight.


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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #174 on: December 09, 2015, 08:20:06 AM »
Good to see you sticking with it, some problems are harder than others. It was mentioned in another repair thread that the sockets on the board for the eproms sometimes cause intermittent connections. You might examine them carefully to see if they show signs of tarnish or corroding, not shiny.

Over the years the metal socket contacts can tarnish. Some brands of sockets use tin contacts and the finish on them can fade after a many years. That's a bigger job to replace a socket, but you can take your time to replace them and not damage the board. After removing the solder I like to take tweezers and wiggle the leg on the back of the board to make sure it is loose and not stuck in the board thru-hole. That prevents tearing up the board when lifting out and removing the old socket.

Also, after you replaced the LM311 did you try setting the adjustment pot all the way in the other direction, just in case that's where it needs to be?
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #175 on: December 21, 2015, 05:53:31 PM »


Any news on the CEI ?
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #176 on: December 21, 2015, 10:20:03 PM »


Any news on the CEI ?



There is news. I had listed my machine for sale... There is an interested buyer who needs a working screen which I am sure mine is working (locally). I am not able to get my machine going and someone else can get theirs working, all the power to us. He has the identical machine but with a bad screen/tube monitor. Disappointing I am sure, considering all of the work we have put into it, but it is what it is without knowing better.


There is nothing for sure as of yet, waiting for the sale tomorrow afternoon. Either way though, someone is going to get their old cei back up and running.
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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #177 on: December 21, 2015, 10:28:28 PM »
Good luck with the sale. I know when you bought it you had hopes to get it running but sometimes these older machines can be tough, especially for anyone new to them or without resources nearby to cut down on costs. If you look into getting another used machine sometime it would probably help for you to show photos of it here and ask for comments, things to check and so forth before you buy it. And you can figure there is almost always going to be unknown problems and associated costs, that's just part of this hobby.

After the new owner gets his other machine working he may then work on the one you sell him. He'll have his other machine as an aid for troubleshooting, that is very helpful.

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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #178 on: December 21, 2015, 10:59:37 PM »
Good luck with the sale. I know when you bought it you had hopes to get it running but sometimes these older machines can be tough, especially for anyone new to them or without resources nearby to cut down on costs. If you look into getting another used machine sometime it would probably help for you to show photos of it here and ask for comments, things to check and so forth before you buy it. And you can figure there is almost always going to be unknown problems and associated costs, that's just part of this hobby.

After the new owner gets his other machine working he may then work on the one you sell him. He'll have his other machine as an aid for troubleshooting, that is very helpful.


After all is said and done it would have been "cool" to have met up to troubleshoot our machines together. It is quite coincidental to have met up with someone around this area to have the identical machine that needs the working parts from my machine to replace from his non working parts. Hope this is all describable. What a bummer in a way, but in another, cool for the other guy. Really had hoped to get this ol' girl up and running for Christmas and all.


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Re: Cal Omega CEI Double Up Poker 1982 Troubleshooting - Need Help!
« Reply #179 on: December 22, 2015, 09:10:53 AM »
He might be agreeable to give you a call or an email, if you ask him to, to let you know if he does get your old machine fixed and what the problem was. If yours is in better condition appearance-wise than his he may decide to fix it first rather than his.
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