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Author Topic: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light  (Read 12112 times)

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Offline tomco

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CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« on: November 17, 2015, 07:00:34 PM »
  :Scratch-Head: My machine works great except for the hold buttons 3,4 and 5 don't light. Hold buttons 1 and 2 work fine. The function of all the buttons work, except for the three not lighting. I've swapped the bulbs between the working and non-working, and all bulbs are good.
 The machine has a 904 board 8200080 rev. "E"  s/n L810 and the software is 24.01-.05. Not sure where the previous owner got that information from.
 As I said the machine works fine, but I would like to have everything operating if possible. So any help anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 07:30:08 AM »
If the bulbs and sockets are good, first place I would look is at the Molex plug on the door hinge side. Thats where all the wires from the front door go thru. I have more connection problems that I could have figured out earlier, if I just checked the Molex plugs first.
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 07:26:21 PM »
Thanks for the tip. I've been busy all day, but will start checking all molex connections tomorrow. Funny thing I forgot to mention in original post when I pulled the harness down and the lights from the sockets even though they did not light and flash I could see the element within the bulbs glow orange as if receiving low voltage. Whats up with that??????


Thanks
Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 08:39:16 PM »
I'm not a CEI/Cal Omega expert BUT,

Some machines have what is called a KAR board. It plugs into the backplane. It is a simple board with several resistors. The purpose of the KAR board is to always keep a small amount of electricity flowing thru the button lamps, so they will last much longer. When a lamp is suddenly turned on from being truly off the filament expands rapidly from the surge or inrush of current and fatigues it. After a while the bulb filament burns out. The KAR board helps with this problem. KAR stands for Keep Alive Resistor board. Machines with a KAR board will have the button lamps slightly on when in the OFF mode. When the lamp is switched on it works normally. This likely explains what you saw.

If you stand near a table lamp with a clear glass light bulb that is off, in a brightly lit room and turn on the lamp while your face is near the bulb you can watch the bulb filament bend or twitch when it first comes on. Not as exciting as watching Jurrasic World but it is neat. That stuff about metal expanding when it's temp rises is true. That's why some lamp filaments are wound in a spiral, to lessen this fatiguing due to expansion. The lamps used in high reliability circuits have filaments like that.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 12:39:44 AM by rokgpsman »
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Offline tomco

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 08:49:16 PM »
Thank you for the information on the KAR board. I'm learning as I continue to troubleshoot this issues with my machine.


Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 08:53:50 PM »
Thank you for the information on the KAR board. I'm learning as I continue to troubleshoot this issues with my machine.

Tom

So does your machine actually have the KAR board? I assume it does but many do not. If so it is something to check (along with the wiring and connectors) to figure out your button lamp problem. The KAR board can be easily unplugged from the backplane and looked at carefully to make sure it doesn't have any problem.
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 09:01:07 PM »
Heck .... I am learning too ... keep it up ... but not too long. I want to see your machine fixed.
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2015, 09:14:33 PM »
Yes it has a KAR board, and it appears it has some issues. One resistor looks cracked and the 75ohm square resister next to it has a loose solder joint. Time for a trip to the electronic's store. See attached pix.


Thanks again for everyone's help
Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 09:35:43 PM »
Yep, looks like time & heat have taken a toll. Since there is electricity flowing thru these resistors for a lot of the time they do get warm and cause discoloration to the circuit board. If possible you can reduce this by raising the resistors up off the board so that there is an air gap under them, especially the white rectangular resistors since they are higher wattage (heat). Even a small gap is better than having the resistor touching the board. Don't want to break the resistor doing this, so be gentle. The discoloration to the board is not a big problem for the board itself, but it blocks part of the heat trying to get off the resistor, making the resistor run hotter overall, plus it makes one side of the resistor hotter than the other. This can cause stress fractures to occur.

This KAR board may not be what's causing your button lamp problem but it is something needing repair. If you have a meter I'd measure each resistor and make sure they are ok. Some of them have been heated enough to make it hard to see the color bands. Let us know how it goes and we'll go from there.

Something to be aware of in case it is needed. Notice that all of the resistors on the side of the board away from the connector are connected to each other by a common board trace on the back of the board. If the old solder pads on that trace are not reliable you can run a wire on the component side from each resistor leg to the next one, looping it once around each resistor leg and then solder lightly. This will connect them reliably. Do this if you feel it is needed. My artwork in the photo below sucks but maybe you can see what I mean.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 12:42:16 AM by rokgpsman »
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 09:53:31 PM »
Thanks again for everyone's help and advise. I'll be chasing parts tomorrow, and if i complete the repair I will post the results. I also plan to contribute to the support of this forum, without it I have no idea where to start.


Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 12:52:23 PM »
 Okay, repaired KAR board and checked resistance, all is good. Re-installed and no change, lights still non operational. I did trace the green wire from the last three lights that don't flash to the molex connector on the back circuit board and with a jumper lead I jumped isolating the harness with no change. I then connected the brown wire which activates the first two lights to the green and all lights started flashing as they should. This makes me think (and I know how dangerous that is). Is there an IC on the mother board that is a driver for flashing lights? Or another thought would it overload the circuit if I jumpered from the brown to the green lead. I'm think'in there's a reason they didn't wire it that way when they designed the machine. I'm open for additional suggestions and comments.


Thanks in advance
Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 01:01:07 PM »
Did the lights used to work or have they ever worked?  Keep in mind that different game boards/software/firmware control and determine the outcome with game hardware functionality.  I'd be interested to know what a different board in that game would do.  I had a CEI game years ago, and while my board was being repaired, I had a loaner in my game that produced different behavior down to the buttons.

Jason


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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 01:30:48 PM »
Jason,


 The lights didn't work when I got the machine, and I don't have any history from previous owner. He got it at an auction and when he found it didn't work he sold it cheap. I picked it up needing a project like another hole in my head, but i'm having fun fooling with it.


Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2015, 01:37:43 PM »
Yeah, the fact that you have a small amount of voltage resident in the bulbs that aren't lighting up makes me think that all is well and that the bulbs are just waiting for the right commands to come down and light them up, which could very well happen with a different board.  Does that game have a diagnostics test menu?  Something that would trigger the lamps is what I'm getting at. 

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 01:59:42 PM »
 Not sure new to product and I don't have any manuals or schematics.

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 03:51:06 PM »
Another member sent me the schematics for the 904 board. I am pretty sure he wouldn't mind me forwarding on to you if you need. Thay arent the best clarity but better than zippo.
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2015, 04:27:48 PM »
Yes Dave,


 If it wouldn't be to much trouble. It could only help.


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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 10:03:21 PM »
Okay, not having much luck with the schematic really hard to read, and my eyes are no where near what they used to be. I'm still think'in there's an IC controlling the lights flashing, but I haven't the knowledge to trace it down or for that mater test it's operation if I did find it. So i'm a bit stumped at the moment.


Tom





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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2015, 07:59:35 AM »
I didn't see a circuit or ic on the motherboard schematic drawing that would flash the lights like that. But there are a lot of variations on these Col Omega/CEI machines and I'm not very familiar with them. Just to clarify, this is a video poker machine and your video poker game plays just fine on the screen, all of your buttons work when you press them to do something, the problem is just that those 3 buttons do not light up?

Oftentimes these kind of buttons are daisy-chained in series, if one wire connection is broken then a button and the others following it on the chain don't work. Did you make sure the lamp wires are ok going from the 2 buttons that work (#1 and #2) to button #3? And could the problem be a bad pushbutton #3 assembly, does the lamp voltage run thru the pushbutton internally? How hard is it to swap a couple of buttons around, like swap #1 with #3 to see what happens?
 
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2015, 10:40:10 AM »
Yes, everything else works fine. I can see the lights are wired in series, different color wires on the last three lamps than the first two, but have yet to try swapping the switches. I will get into this this afternoon and will respond with my results.
 I did use a temporary jumper on the positive leg between switch #2 and #3 which in turn lit #3,4 and 5 and flashed as required. So let me do some more checking. I want to re-trace the positive lead from the #3 switch back to the molex connector at the main board and check for voltage or at least continuity through the wire.

 

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