New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: CJOKKO@HOTMAIL.COM on February 05, 2018, 09:53:12 AM
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First off hope I am in the right place. I was recently talked into looking at non-working slot machine. I believe it is a 1996 IGT Dazzling Diamond. When you plug in the machine it goes thru some boot up, reels spin, makes noise then stops. Please insert coin light up, 25 cents light up, there is a 0 digit in the winner paid top line, no digit in the credits or coins played panel. If you open the door and look at cash comparitor, the red led is not lit, it won’t accept coins as they drop straight to the tray. If you hit the test button the bet 1 button lights up, if you hit the Bet 1 button the play max button lights up, if you hit the bet max button the reel spins as if working, if you continue to hit the play button more than a couple of times the reels spin on their own continuously without out any action from you, they spin stop, pause and spin again like they are working correctly but shows no credits in display. Sometimes the spin button light ups and will spin the reels if pressed. If you hit the switch on the optic sensor below cash comparitor it register's no credits. I inspected the comparitor there is a quarter in the correct place, I replaced it with another, removed and cleaned the optic sensors , tested voltages to the comparitor and I got 13 volts ac, but comparitor board states 24v ac. This machine looks fairly old, it appears it only has open door switch, no optic sensors for door, it also has no bill accept-er. I checked all the fuses, they appear to be ok. I do not have a JP Key but removed the glass panel and shorted the 2 wires on the JP Key switch with no results. "I’m assuming it just closes and opens the circuits as there is no continuity when wires are disconnected" The coin hopper/collector is empty, I’m not sure how it works, does it require coins to test? I see no optic sensor or weight sensor on hopper. "Maybe I’m just blind" Having a hard time finding Diagnostic information or schematics. This machine is for my sister in-law that loves to gamble but due to recent cancer diagnosis and chemo treatments won’t be able to get to a real casino in a while. If you think I am wasting my time on this machine and the cost of repairs will more than the machine is worth than that information will also be valuable.
This type of repair is new to me any help would be appreciated on where to start.
Once again sorry if I am in the wrong spot
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Welcome to NLG!
Don't worry if your post is in the right place or not, we can get it moved to the right forum if needed.
The machine resembles an IGT S+, it has "IGT made in Australia" right on the front so it may be a little different than the machines we typically see here. The reel strips remind me of a Double Diamond Deluxe S+ machine. Since you can press the pushbutton on the coin optics boards and the machine adds credits and you can then spin the reels that means a big part of the machine is working.
Can you post more photos showing the insides of the machine? Show us the inside of the door where the coin comparitor is located. The coin comparitor is the part that decides if the inserted coin matches the example coin that is installed into the coin comparitor. If they match, the coin drops thru the coin optics, you get a credit on the machine, and then the coin goes into the hopper. If the inserted coin does not match the example coin then the inserted coin is rejected and returned to the coin tray on front of machine.
The hopper does not need any coins for you to play or test the machine, except for doing a hopper test where the hopper will pay out coins.
Also helpful would be photos of the main logic circuit board (called the "mpu board). The mpu board is probably located in the lower part of the cabinet, behind the hopper on the back wall, or to the left side of the hopper on the side wall over there. The mpu board is mounted to a metal tray, there is a round knob for you to grasp and pull upward to remove the mpu.
You are correct about the jackpot reset switch. It is just 2 wires that you can connect manually when you want to do a reset function. You may be able to get a new key for it, the key that is typically used is called a "2341" key and they are available at many places for a low cost. Or you can replace the entire reset switch, there is one large nut on the inside of the machine that holds the reset switch.
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Thanks for the response, I will get you more photos by tomorrow. I know exactly where the board in question is. Would you like pictures of back of door, switches, hopper , wiring?
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The more photos the better, the most important areas are the inside of the main door showing the coin comparitor, the lower cabinet area showing hopper and mpu board location. Then remove the mpu board and post a photo of it, would be good to see the socketed chips on the mpu and read the labels on them. Does the machine use door optic sensors or does it use a large "Cherry" switch to detect door open and closed?
I think you can attach up to 5 photos to each message you post, but if you need to do several messages that is ok.
Do you have the upper glass, was it removed for troubleshooting?
Does the front display show any error messages?
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Ok sorry i did not read your response correctly. If I unplug the machine and reconnect it it goes thru boot up. Not touching the optic button , but only touching the test button
[size=0px]If you hit the test button the bet 1 button lights up, if you hit the Bet 1 button the play max button lights up, if you hit the bet max button the reel spins as if working, if you continue to hit the play button more than a couple of times the reels spin on their own continuously without out any action from you, they spin stop, pause and spin again like they are working correctly but shows no credits in display. Sometimes the spin button light ups and will spin the reels if pressed. This has nothing to do with the optic switch as it appear to do nothing, even if i never touch optic switch machine does the same thing.[/size]
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Yes has large door switch, no optics that i can see, I do Have the top glass, it was removed because I do not have a JP key and needed to access the JP key switch. I will get you the rest of the photos.
Thanks
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I not sure I can see any codes as only my top line winner paid shows a 0 digit, credits and coins played do not light up or have any digits in them.
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ok, so pressing the coin optic board pushbutton does not add a credit to the machine? If it doesn't then we will need the photos to decide what to do next. Have you looked at the mpu board, made sure there is no battery leakage damage to it? The mpu board plugs into a smaller interconnect board below it, this board is called the "motherboard". On the front edge of the motherboard is a wiring cable from the power supply. Inspect this connector to see if there are any browned or darkened areas. This is a problem sometimes. Look on the front and backside of the connector. You can also wiggle the connector while machine is powered up to see if the machines wakes up or if the connector has intermittent connection. Be careful with power on while doing this. The hopper can be removed to make this easier. See photo below.
The white TEST button inside the machine is for accessing the machines built-in diagnostic menus and for letting you set certain preference options. Each time you press the white TEST button inside the machine the display on the front of machine should step thru the various menu steps. They are numbered. Then to make changes (don't do this yet) you would either press a player button or turn the jackpot reset key.
-EDIT- if your machine is not an S+ then some of this post does not apply
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I will follow your instructions on inspecting the board. The optics button does not add credits that I can see as no digits show on the bottom 2 read outs.
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This machine looks like an early model S+ or possibly an S machine. I don't know if that game was available in the S machines. May explain a little of the confusion though. As S machines had no door optics. Only the big cherry switch for the door. Pics will certainly help.
Dave
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Ok got some pictures also did some testing whether relevant or not hope it helps.
1st I did remove the board as asked, I took some pictures of it but while out I inspected it, there was a battery soldered to the board that I have been reading about, while the board was out I measured the voltage, It was at 3.6 volts dc, while inspecting the board I noticed a diode appeared to have be very hot at one time and had some type of bypass wire solder from one side of the diode to 2 pins on the side electrical connector "2 pins at side of electrical board were solder together", I tested the diode with my DVOM and even though the diode looked burnt it did test ok. Next I reinstalled the board and restarted system, funny thing it started to act different, 1st all the buttons lit up, then wheels started to spin and then the hopper started to run continuously. Now if I unplug it and reconnect it follows the same scenario except no buttons light up just the wheels start to turn then the hopper runs for about 30- 60 seconds. I tested the door switch and it has 12 volts DC when open on both wires but when switch is applied it does loose connection to 1 side. Next I retested the power to the coin comparitor, with connector off there is only power to a yellow wire “13 volts ACâ€, I believe this is terminal 4, with it hooked up there is 13 volts AC to all terminals, I went ahead and grounded the bottom terminal “black wire†and the coin comparitor led lights up dim and it buzzes, I put my figure behind it and the buzzing is coming from the comparitor diversion bar, almost like the electro magnet is trying to work but voltage is too low. I can hold the diverter bar against the electro magnet but it is not strong enough to hold it.
Next I removed the hopper and retested the voltages “weird thing, maybe normal but the voltages to the coin comparitor dropped to 2.5 volts ACâ€
There is a 110 V AC cord that off course plugs into the wall outlet that goes to a transformer on the right bottom of cabinet. This transformer has 110-120 going in and 220-240 coming out; this appears to be working as designed as there is a label stating “be careful 240 volts throughout the cabinetâ€
There is another transformer on the left rear bottom of cabinet that has 240 volts in but has multiple wires coming out on the back side that all have different voltages. Starting with the top brown wire it has 0-88 volts AC “fluctuates back and forthâ€, next red wire has 2.7 volts AC, next black wire has 11.23 volts AC, next white red wire has0 volts “like a groundâ€, next white wire has 8.18 volts AC, next purple wire has 13.17 volts AC, next white and red wire has 0 volts, and finally orange wire has 13.19 volts AC. My coin comparitor states right on outside of its cover that it is a 24 volt AC device, I am wondering if while I manually ground the comparitor ground terminal and it actually had 24 volts would it work correctly.
I am not sure where the 24 volts AC voltage is supposed to come from, there is another transformer on the mother board that I did not test and I am not sure what is in the power switch box other than some fuses, speaker and a test switch.
None of the terminals coming out of the multi voltage transformer have 24 volts. Is it possible the coin comparitor is the wrong one? I have seen other documents stating that there is a 13 volt version.
Also of note everyone keeps asking if there are any codes but my numeric display only shows 1 digit of a 0 in the winner paid top portion “See pictureâ€, the middle “Credit Line†and the “coins Played†never lights up.
I do notice that most of the ballast lamps try to work and flicker but think this is related to bad bulbs or ballast
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More pictures
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Hopefully last pictures.
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I can confirm from your 4th picture that your machine is not a S+ as the location of your game/reel chips appear to be on a addon board, and there are two edge connectors vs one larger one.
I also note that from the last picture that you do not have a bill validator and the winner paid / credits are in a different spot on the glass than a S+
I would subsequently suspect this to be a IGT S (not S+) which is a generation older than originally thought.
I have never actually seen a S so I would need others familiar with the board to confirm.
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I would say this is an S machine. I'll add a pic of an S inside and you can see the similarity. And while they are not exactly the same, being made for the Australian market could explain differences.
Dave
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I found a picture of an S board insides. Other than the extra board. They look alike.
Dave
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Well now that it appears this is a very old machine and some of the members were able to find pictures, is there any suggestions on where to start or the next thing to test?
If you guys say it is junk I will just return it to the owner. If you think you have some things to try or need me to test something else just let me know.
If you believe it's just not worth repairing that information will also be acceptable. I have been trying to find wiring schematics and the correct diagnostic procedure to determine if this system truly uses is a 24 volt coin comparitor, as I only have 13 volts AC going to this one, this might be part of the problem.
Does anyone know where the voltage to the coin comparitor comes from, and if it is truly low could this be some of the problem?
Thanks
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Man I would love to tell you I know all those answers...........Yeah but I don't. Jim at Midwest slots knows a lot about these old machines and Ken at Ohio Gaming Slots may also. Sorry guys but I put the onus on you. I'll try to find some help but these dudes (the machine) are old. Now is it a lost cause? No, I don't think so. Some of the software is a little hard to find but the codes can be a bit different from newer ones. Takes a little bit to get things straightened out. Personally I'd love to have that machine. Let's see what pops up. Don't give up yet, let's see what we can find.
Dave
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Here's a post about an S having trouble.
Dave
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=18375.msg97349#msg97349 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=18375.msg97349#msg97349)
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Thanks for the link, I went thru it read everything but unfortunately I have no way to get any codes, as I only get 1 digit "0" in the winner paid window nothing comes up at all in the credit window or coins played. Anybody have anything else I can try?
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I'm guessing that's the test button under the power switch. Have you tried pushing it more than once to try to advance through the menu? If it continues on through different digits and then goes blank, try inserting a coin then. I wonder if it's just sitting on a test page.
Dave
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Typically the winner paid and credits is blank until coins are inserted & played..
On the newer S+ (sorry my only frame of reference) they have coin optics that have a very small button on them. This will add a credit to the machine when the door is open.
Coin in --> Coin Comparator --> Coin Optics --> Credit.
The comparator compares the coin dropped in with a sample coin to ensure it has all the right metal properties. The S may perhaps only have a mechanical coin mech as some of the early S+'s still had mechanical ones.
The Coin Optics have an A B C sensor. This ensures that coin passes only one way vs someone tie'ing a string to a coin and pulling it back and forth to generate more credits (known as stringing). I am pretty sure that the S had a coin optic but I don't think it was the secure ABC optic.
Ie a coin passing each of the three sensors A,B,C is different than going backwards as C,B,A.
Another form of cheating was to use a light pen to blind the optic sensor and then by flashing the light it would appear as a coin had been passing and it would generate a credit. The ABC sensor was immune to this.
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Thanks for the reply, but my problem is when hitting the coins optics credit button, nothing happens, also of note as mentioned earlier the led does not light up on the coin comparitor, I have 13 volts ac to the coin comparitor but the label on it states 24 volts dc, if I hook up a jumper wire from system ground to the ground terminal on coin comparitor the led will light up but is very dim, it also causes a buzzing that is coming from the coin diversion lever and electro magnet inside the coin comparitor, if I push the lever towards the electro magnet buzzing stops but the magnet is not strong enough to hold it. This to me means voltage is to low and could be part of the problem. Just for reverence I tested all voltages coming from the main multi voltage transformer as seen in the pictures and none of them produce 24 volts, so I believe I have a voltage problem or maybe system requires a 13 volt ac coin comparitor. One of the members ask me to remove and inspect the mother board , since then the machine acts a little different once I put the board back in, not sure if related or just coincidence. There is a picture of my mother board with some type of jumper wire soldered to board from connector to diode on the board, this appears to be some type of repair or bypass of a circuit. Does anyone know whether this machine truly is a 24 volts or 13 volts system? Would trying to apply 24 volts with an another source to the coin comparitor be a good test? Anyway thanks for all your help
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Are you running 110V or 220V for power to the machine? I don't know how or if the S model machine can be switched between voltages. Jim would probably know but I think hes on vacation.
LED on comparitor will not light up when door is open. The coin comparitor (CC16C or D) should be 24V for the S model machine.
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There is a 120 volt cord that plugs into regular outlet wall outlet , but that wiring goes to transformer inside the machine that jumps it up to 240 volts, there are stickers all over inside stating 240 volts, coin comparitor states on label CC-16E,24vac. As for coin comparitor not lighting up with door open, my machine has simple door switch , no optic sensors at all for knowing if the door is open. I can close the door switch but still no light, I did test the door switch with a DVOM and it works correclty
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First and foremost, QUIT grounding items trying to get the results you are looking for, you will only do more damage than good. What voltage is being produced where you live? 120 vac or 220 vac, if your wall socket is putting out 120 vac then the machine should be set up inside for 120 vac. here is how it typically works: machines were made to operate on an INPUT VOLTAGE of either 120vac or 220 vac, that input voltage was presented to the input transformer and depending which winding's were selected the output voltages WERE THE SAME. THE PURPOSE OF THE TRANSFORMER was to convert a high input voltage and step it down to a voltage the machine would use as its power source to run the machine, in this case, 120 vac would be stepped down to 24vac and 7vac and maybe 8vac. the AC voltages were then used to run the step down transformer on the board to provide a smaller ac voltage to be used to convert to a DC voltage to run all the digital logic. at some point the 120 vac should be used to run all the fluorescent lamps, the 7vac is used to run all the lamps (Insert coin, denom. etc.) the 24vac is for the CC-16 and powers the small transformer on the logic board. etc. looks like they moved the fuses up to the reel shelf assembly.
as for the machine, I believe you have an "S" model machine made for use outside the USA. the original "S" machine did not use a SP chip,so NO NUDGE GAMES COULD BE USED ON THAT MACHINE, only used one chip for the entire game. someone came up with an add on to use the SP chip and use a nudge game.
I would figure out the power input first, then figure out the output winding's and check all the voltages at that point, did this machine work according to the previous owner?? any history?? same country, same power sources??
If you could get schematics for the "S" machine, this may help you see what I was trying to layout. I'll check when I get back and see what I have.
Jim
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The cord on the machine is for 120 volts, this is what my house also supplies, that cord goes straight into the machine and hooks up to a very large transformer, voltage going in is 120 volts, but voltage coming out is 240 volts, this 240 voltage goes to another transformer that has different multiple voltage terminals that exit opposite side. This transformer sends different voltages to different circuits , 120 volts to the florescent lights, 8 volts to button and indicator lamps, multiple other voltages to other components, it only sends 13 vac to coin comparitor. I did find manufacturer connector identification and terminal description for the coin comparitor CC-16E 24 vac, it clearly states the mother board provides ground to terminal 6 on this module to allow activation, I'm not just sending power and grounds at random, I was advised from another site to ground this wire just to test coin comparitor. I apologize if this was the wrong procedure but this was done before I found you guys. There is no rush on this machine just trying to stay up to date. Thanks for everyone's help.
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looks like the center tap on the second output transformer is not in the circuit or some thing like that? looking at a S+ transformer output here are the connections. this is for reference:
input to the transformer:
pin 1=110/220 common
pin 2= 110 vac winding
pin3= 220 vac winding
output from the transformer:
pin 4=12vac
pin 5= center tap for 12vac
pin 6=12vac
pin 7=common for 7 & 8 vac
pin 8= 7vac
pin 9= 8vac
check the input voltage to the tray transformer, two black wires, should have 24vac there?
on the cc16 plug, yellow wire is labeled "lockout", black wire is labeled "24vac return " violet wire is output to the optic board. according to the schematics, it appears that 24vac hot should be on the yellow wire, when the machine is in the coin accept mode the 24vac wire (black) gets a ground from the logic board to apply power to the cc-16.
since the "S" model does not use door optics, it uses the white cherry switch as a door open and close indicator, that switch is typically a three way switch, when the door is open the switch is open, when you close the door it is closed, however with the door open you can pull the plunger out and it will now act as though the door is closed, you can then typically observe what is going on when the machine is operating.
Jim
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When you say tray transformer, do you mean the 5 wire one on motherboard , it has 2 black wires
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yes, that's the one! should be the last two pins, pins 5 & 6 . the other three coming out should have 16vac across the entire winding, or center tapped 8vac on each winding.
Jim
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Sorry for the late response but between valentines day and other stuff just got a chance to check out the voltages. So if I probe both the black wires at the on board transformer, I get 24 volts, if I probe the 2 wires next to the black ones I get approximately 16 volts if I probe them separately I get about 8 volts, on my board the last pin has been cut off, so from the black wires over I Have only 5 terminals, the 6th terminal has no wire in the connector, this board has been repaired as there is a different type of resistor replaced under the board and some type of bypass wire on the front, seems like everytime I touch the board "disconnect/reconnect" it acts differently when I turn it back on, now I have some type off diverter door behind optic sensor cycling " not the one on coin comparitor", now only have 4 volts to coin comparitor. Starting to look like loss cause. Not sure it means anything but when machine cycles up and reels spin they always stop exactly the same place.
Thanks and please advise
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just an opinion.....
Is there a nearby place to you that sells slot machines? Is so they would probably have a shop and maybe do repairs to this machine. That could be an option. Most any IGT S or S+ machine can be repaired with enough patience, parts and willingness to put in the effort and money. But honestly you can sometimes find a working S+ machine for sale for $200 or less, depending on location. Not trying to dissuade you, just wanting to say that not everyone wants to deal with repairing a difficult problem. For some it is real satisfaction, for others it is a frustrating process. If this were an S+ you could easily order and replace a part like the mpu board and that might fix it. And if that didn't do it you could try replacing the power supply or the motherboard. But if this is an S model the parts might be harder to obtain.
Is there a lot of rust inside the lower cabinet area that would indicate the machine was in a flood? That can really cause some flaky intermittent problems since every connector and electrical connection gets corroded. For a coastal flood where seawater is involved it gets even worse due to the saltwater.
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Thanks for you advice, there is no rust any wear, as for repair shops it's been to 3 of them, we were told its not worth repairing. Parts not easy to find i guess. Of course they could sell us another machine . Just thought i would give it a try.
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I've been thinking about this and it may be a moot point. I don't know how S machines work as opposed to S+ machines but in reply #27 Jim asked about the white door switch.
"Since the "S" model does not use door optics, it uses the white cherry switch as a door open and close indicator, that switch is typically a three way switch, when the door is open the switch is open, when you close the door it is closed, however with the door open you can pull the plunger out and it will now act as though the door is closed, you can then typically observe what is going on when the machine is operating."
Jim
Now Have you tried pulling that switch out? Could we be running into a switch not working or possibly wired wrong? If the machine doesn't see the door closed, it will never work correctly. If it doesn't pull out, it may be the wrong switch. And could be wired incorrectly. Try checking the switch for continuity between posts or try jumping between the wires and see if anything works differently. Most everything is kind of right but we might be missing something easy. Just thoughts about your machine.
Dave
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Here is one of his earlier photos of the main door Cherry switch. Looks like the 2 wires going to it are on terminals that are not adjacent to each other. Are they connected correctly? On my machine the Cherry switch wires are connected to adjacent terminals. Someone could have been messing around with this door switch wiring.
Also, he could move the wires to the terminals on the top half of the Cherry switch, in case the terminals in the lower half are rusted/bad.
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OK on the door switch, it was checked with DVOM
When closed "pushed in" and when pulled out continuity is identical when opened "door open" its the opposite, i tried all combinations in, out , pulled out, makes no difference
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Did you try pulling the Cherry switch plunger out while the machine is powered up? When the white plunger is pulled out the Cherry switch acts the same as when the door is closed. On a working machine you can play the machine with the door open when it has a Cherry switch and no door optics if you pull the Cherry switch plunger outward.
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Not sure it means anything but when machine cycles up and reels spin they always stop exactly the same place.
Thanks and please advise
When the machine boots up, the reels will return to their last stopped position. I've turned a reel with the machine off and when powered up, they go back to the original position. Have you traced the wires from the door switch back? Maybe one is broken or unplugged.
Dave
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Yeah , one of first things i did, even disconnected it and tried simulation by disconnecting and shorting terminals no difference . With DVOM switch test Good, like I mentioned when switch is pulled out continuity is the same as if you pushed in "door closed" while door is open continuity is different. It's either Open or closed contacts, switch seems to work fine