Little Help With a Bally 5500 Wild Rose. Not performing Ram Clear

[Ejohns10]

Good Morning,
I was hoping someone could give me a little help on a Bally 5500. I recently purchased a Bally Wild Rose from someone of craigslist. This is my first s5500 machine. I have a IGT and 2000 already and you all have helped me get all of them working thus far.


Background: Guy had the machine on Craigslist for a month or two and nobody was biting. I offered him 100 bucks and he took it. Machine is in great shape other than the belly glass. I mean this machine is clean, dust free, nice looking. I asked him if it worked and he said it worked great for him before they moved. Once he moved, the machine would no longer work. I figured it was stored for a little while and was most likely a batter issue. Sure enough, I get it home and it has the 81 code.


After doing some reading through the forum, I decide to install the remove batter pack with AA to allow a quick easy change as I read these machines like to eat batteries. I ran wire to the terminals on the board and out to the bottom of the box next to the hopper. I had to buy a 4 battery holder and solder an IN4001 in the first battery holder. Tested the pack and had 4.3V at the board.


Plugged the board back in, started it up. Cleared the code for open door when starting, and got the 83F code for the safe ram reset. I followed the directions and moved the jumper. Nothing happened. I did some more research on here and it looks like my U12 and U15 chips are dated 1999 although the game is 1995. Figured since it did not work I needed clear chips. I went and bought clear chips from JJslots. I installed them and tried to boot it up while holding in the psuedo and test. Nothing. The screen was completely blank and the red light was flashing on the MPU board. Looked over the chips and realized that the label on the chips was backwards and that I need to flip them around. I flipped them around and tried again with no luck. It would of been nice if there were some directions to point out that the chip as a small notch which help you orient it. I was just under the assumption the labels would be the same as the rest of the chips...New guy mistake I guess.


So, I contacted JJslots and he has me sending the chips back for testing.


So I was hoping someone could just confirm what I did, and let me know if there would be anything else that could be causing a problem with the machine. Once I put the old ram chips back in, it goes back to 83F. Do you think I could have bad mains, or do you think the problem might still be with the clear chips. Any helps would be great. I would like to get this thing back up and running before NYE. Thanks agiain!!

[Ejohns10]

HELP HELP, anyone out there??? I am trying to get this machine up and running for NYE. Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Sunrise Side]

The battery setup you have at 4.3 volts may be your problem. It should be 3.6 volts. You may have a over voltage fault. If you use a AA 3.6 volt lithium battery you won't have issues with the  battery failing. I have used it for 4 years with no issues. Fix your over voltage issue first and then try a clear. The chips you had in backwards may have been damaged.

[Ejohns10]

The battery setup you have at 4.3 volts may be your problem. It should be 3.6 volts. You may have a over voltage fault. If you use a AA 3.6 volt lithium battery you won't have issues with the  battery failing. I have used it for 4 years with no issues. Fix your over voltage issue first and then try a clear. The chips you had in backwards may have been damaged.

Thanks for the response.
I have no issues with the machine working with the original chips in and the voltage at 4.3 running from the battery pack. From what I have read on here, this external battery back has been used by different people with no problems. Granted the 83F code flashes, but the paid out lights up and the red light is not blinking on the MPU. When the new chips are in the board red light blinks and nothing lights up. I am thinking you are correct that maybe I fried the chips by installing them backwards.

Has anyone else had problems doing the battery pack with 3 AA batteries?

[Sunrise Side]

If it lights up with the originals , then it will work when you get a set of good clear chips. Try a clear again when you get your chips back..

[Badbaud]

I have ran into this problem in the past with the older software. Holding in test and pseudo and powering up machine did not clear it, with RAM clear jumper in place.
BUT if you wait for power up then tap the reset button and immediately hold in the test and pseudo button it will clear.
Another trick that has worked is to swap the RAM chips with each other and trying another clear.

One rookie mistake is when soldering the (-) side of the battery in the solder pad on the bottom of the board is a very thin PC trace on the bottom of the board gets ripped up and the minus of the battery does not make contact with ground of the board.
Get a volt meter and measuring DC voltage put the black lead on the lower left leg of one of the RAM chips and the red lead on the upper right lead of the same chip and see if your battery voltage is making it to the RAM chips.

[Ejohns10]

I have ran into this problem in the past with the older software. Holding in test and pseudo and powering up machine did not clear it, with RAM clear jumper in place.
BUT if you wait for power up then tap the reset button and immediately hold in the test and pseudo button it will clear.
Another trick that has worked is to swap the RAM chips with each other and trying another clear.

One rookie mistake is when soldering the (-) side of the battery in the solder pad on the bottom of the board is a very thin PC trace on the bottom of the board gets ripped up and the minus of the battery does not make contact with ground of the board.
Get a volt meter and measuring DC voltage put the black lead on the lower left leg of one of the RAM chips and the red lead on the upper right lead of the same chip and see if your battery voltage is making it to the RAM chips.

Thanks for the response. So I will try the trick you said, but to clarify when switching ram chips I should put the new chips in, but put 12 in 15 and 15 in 12? When I get the ram chips back, if they don't work in their respective spots I will try this.


I will check the voltage, do you see any problem using the 3AA with IN4001 setup as a problem. With the .6V loss from the diode, I really only have 3.9 Volts with fully charged batteries. The machine seem to work fine with that setup. I have had an error on my JVL vortex since I bought it, I took the same battery pack and jumped the battery in there and the error cleared and seems to run find that way. I thought about buying the 1/2AA holder, but hate the fact that the batteries are so damn expensive. I would rather stick with an easy AA setup if it isn't going to cause any damage to my games. I have three slots, a JVL, and a pinball machine that I would like to switch over.

[Kenokarz]

I just use a single AA battery holder from radio shack cost about 1.00 or so solder it right to the old term , on  the board  use a AA 3.6 volt lithium battery never had a problem
battery last 2 plus years , you need to get rid of all the extra stuff you put in there and do it the right way ,

[Ejohns10]

I just use a single AA battery holder from radio shack cost about 1.00 or so solder it right to the old term , on  the board  use a AA 3.6 volt lithium battery never had a problem
battery last 2 plus years , you need to get rid of all the extra stuff you put in there and do it the right way ,

I think the only difference between our two designs are that I can change the batteries with the machine on without pulling out the MPU and I have .3volts more from the 3 regular AA. The diode is not necessary, but more a safeguard to keep anything from back feeding the batteries. I am looking into just soldering the 1/2AA holders in instead. I will look at the AA option as well.

[Badbaud]

EPROM's are the ones with the labels on them with bally numbers (if original) and RAM chips are the two large chips to the right of the EPROM's.

[Kenokarz]

 

RadioShack AA Battery Holder
   
Catalog #: 2700401  its no big deal to pull mpu like I said the battery last 2 yrs plus or longer I get the batteries on ebay for about a 1buck or so each so why not do it the right way instead of all the messing  around , but hey its your machine do as you wish , only trying to help and this is the quick fast and easy way to get you machine up and running ,

[Ejohns10]

 

RadioShack AA Battery Holder
   
Catalog #: 2700401  its no big deal to pull mpu like I said the battery last 2 yrs plus or longer I get the batteries on ebay for about a 1buck or so each so why not do it the right way instead of all the messing  around , but hey its your machine do as you wish , only trying to help and this is the quick fast and easy way to get you machine up and running ,

I don't disagree, I just don't really see the difference between the way I am doing it and the way you are suggesting other than .3 volts. Both involve soldering a battery holder in. The only difference is my battery holder has three AA and a 40 cent diode mounted to the outside of the mpu.  I looked into the 3.6V AA and 1/2AA and don't feel that the Chinese made ones that are actually affordable are reliable enough. i read about 20 negative reviews on the Zeno and the SAFT. So If I was going to do it the right way, I would buy the more expensive 1/2AA and a holder and install it. If you can suggest the brand of the cheap dollar ones that last two years, I can easily cut off the 4 battery holder and solder in the single. 

[Badbaud]

When it comes to electronics the shorter the leads the better.
If you will notice any signal that comes on and off the board via the backplane board and wiring is buffered through special IC's to keep electrical noise from getting to the sensitive high speed electronics.
What you have made is two antenna leads tied to the most sensitive part of the design that incorporate the game memory and software.
NEVER a good idea.

[Ejohns10]

When it comes to electronics the shorter the leads the better.
If you will notice any signal that comes on and off the board via the backplane board and wiring is buffered through special IC's to keep electrical noise from getting to the sensitive high speed electronics.
What you have made is two antenna leads tied to the most sensitive part of the design that incorporate the game memory and software.
NEVER a good idea.

Thanks for the input. What batteries are you purchasing and having good luck with from Ebay?

[Ejohns10]

I have ran into this problem in the past with the older software. Holding in test and pseudo and powering up machine did not clear it, with RAM clear jumper in place.
BUT if you wait for power up then tap the reset button and immediately hold in the test and pseudo button it will clear.
Another trick that has worked is to swap the RAM chips with each other and trying another clear.

One rookie mistake is when soldering the (-) side of the battery in the solder pad on the bottom of the board is a very thin PC trace on the bottom of the board gets ripped up and the minus of the battery does not make contact with ground of the board.
Get a volt meter and measuring DC voltage put the black lead on the lower left leg of one of the RAM chips and the red lead on the upper right lead of the same chip and see if your battery voltage is making it to the RAM chips.

Steering this back on topic, I heard from JJslots yesterday that the clear chips were blown. He sent new ones out. I will update you all once I receive them and reset the machine. Thanks again for all the input. Let's hope this solves the issue!!

[Badbaud]

We get ours from All Electronics. Fresh 1/2 AA batteries with wire leads are $3.50 each rated at 1.5 Amps.
Also, in all of the boards I have worked on I have only encountered 4 that actually needed clear chips installed to clear.
In most cases the RAM clear jumper set was enough to effect a clear.

[Ejohns10]

We get ours from All Electronics. Fresh 1/2 AA batteries with wire leads are $3.50 each rated at 1.5 Amps.
Also, in all of the boards I have worked on I have only encountered 4 that actually needed clear chips installed to clear.
In most cases the RAM clear jumper set was enough to effect a clear.

I read there was a date that is used to determine if chips are needed or not. Does that hold any truth? The ram chips in the machine now show 1999. The game and reel show 1996 I believe.

[Badbaud]

I'm sure there is a date but I never got that technical. If the board didn't clear with the jumper then it needed clear chips.
Tried and true trial and error.

[Jim]

Mouser sells a battery holder for a 1/2AA battery  made by eagle plastics.  install this, put in a 1/2 AA battery,  usually good for 2/3years.    there is a set of mains that will not allow you to clear using the jumper method,   I believe the  the 92000 set of mains will allow you to clear using the J-10 jumper. 

you may have to get a different set of mains or get the right clear chips for the game.


Jim

[Ejohns10]

Mouser sells a battery holder for a 1/2AA battery  made by eagle plastics.  install this, put in a 1/2 AA battery,  usually good for 2/3years.    there is a set of mains that will not allow you to clear using the jumper method,   I believe the  the 92000 set of mains will allow you to clear using the J-10 jumper. 

you may have to get a different set of mains or get the right clear chips for the game.


Jim

Thanks Jim. I am hoping the ones coming now will do the trick. It has been a while. You last helped me with an IGT Red, white, and blue this time last year. I just fixed the DBV-200 last night on the machine. After buying this new machine and being in troubleshooting mode, I decided to look into the validator not working last night. Went back and read your recommendations and went up an down the machine looking for the cause. Finally found it. A pinched wire for the optical eye. The wire must of been pinched enough to break the connection, but not the wire. After some wiggling I noticed it would cycle the validator. Finally cut off the protective cover and the wire snapped. Repaired it and the validator works perfectly......What a pain in the ASS...Thanks again for your help.