New Life Games LLC
Monitor Repair Log and Database. **Arcade and Gaming** => LCD and CRT Monitor Repair Tech Support => Topic started by: skipjack on June 29, 2017, 09:42:02 PM
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Not sure where to start troubleshooting. Candle blinks slow on top light, and fast on the bottom light. I only get these lines on the monitor.
Any help would be appreciated!
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Make sure the plug on the monitor is in all of the way.
It looks like you are not getting the video signal from the game board.
The other end of the monitor cable plugs into the bottom board that the computer board is plugged into.
Attached is a layout of this board showing where the monitor cable is plugged in.
Make sure it is all of the way, even try un-plugging it and plugging it back in.
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Make sure the plug on the monitor is in all of the way.
It looks like you are not getting the video signal from the game board.
The other end of the monitor cable plugs into the bottom board that the computer board is plugged into.
Attached is a layout of this board showing where the monitor cable is plugged in.
Make sure it is all of the way, even try un-plugging it and plugging it back in.
Thanks for the info. Very nice illustration, where can I get more like that?
I checked the cable at J9, it looked good but I removed it and plugged it back in. Unfortunately no change in monitor.
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Besides being a bad monitor (we fix them by the way) there is a 6 pin plug that connects to the monitor board under the tube, on the front edge of the board, that could have fallen out or needs to be re-seated.
Worst case you could send the monitor to us for repair. PM me.
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Not sure where to start troubleshooting. Candle blinks slow on top light, and fast on the bottom light. I only get these lines on the monitor.
Any help would be appreciated!
I'm not a monitor tech, so this is just my thinking...
The screen is lit up, that's a good sign, usually means the high voltage is working. The scan lines you see mean the deflection yolk and crt guns are probably ok. The gray/whitish raster is fullsize on the screen, so horiz and vert drive circuits are ok. I assume it is a color monitor, and since there is no red, green or blue image on the screen then I'd think there is a total lack of video signal. So as mentioned earlier I'd be looking at stuff in the video circuit. But I'm not familiar with your particular monitor so I can't guess what parts to suspect or change, I don't even have a schematic drawing. Keep in mind that the video signal is made on the mpu board, so although it is likely that your monitor is the problem it is possible that the problem is on the mpu board. (the mpu is the main logic circuit board located in the machine separately from the monitor).
Somebody correct any of this if I have it wrong, I don't want to spread any "fake news". :garfield:
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Besides being a bad monitor (we fix them by the way) there is a 6 pin plug that connects to the monitor board under the tube, on the front edge of the board, that could have fallen out or needs to be reseated.
Worst case you could send the monitor to us for repair. PM me.
I went ahead and pulled out the monitor to check and reseat the plugs. I did see 2 plugs not connected to anything. I am not sure where they go, or if they are not used?
I would definitely be interested in a repair, once I am sure the monitor is the problem.
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Not sure where to start troubleshooting. Candle blinks slow on top light, and fast on the bottom light. I only get these lines on the monitor.
Any help would be appreciated!
I'm not a monitor tech, so this is just my thinking...
The screen is lit up, that's a good sign, usually means the high voltage is working. The scan lines you see mean the deflection yolk and crt guns are probably ok. The gray/whitish raster is fullsize on the screen, so horiz and vert drive circuits are ok. I assume it is a color monitor, and since there is no red, green or blue image on the screen then I'd think there is a total lack of video signal. So as mentioned earlier I'd be looking at stuff in the video circuit. But I'm not familiar with your particular monitor so I can't guess what parts to suspect or change, I don't even have a schematic drawing. Keep in mind that the video signal is made on the mpu board, so although it is likely that your monitor is the problem it is possible that the problem is on the mpu board. (the mpu is the main logic circuit board located in the machine separately from the monitor).
Somebody correct any of this if I have it wrong, I don't want to spread any "fake news". :garfield:
Thanks for the info.
I definitely agree with your logic, makes sense to me. Anyone who can help me diagnose the video signal circuit on the mpu? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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The MPU may not be getting power to produce the video signals.
Check the output of your power supply.
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Maybe your CAPX prom is in backwards or has a bent pin.
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The MPU may not be getting power to produce the video signals.
Check the output of your power supply.
I will check and report back.
Thanks.
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Maybe your CAPX prom is in backwards or has a bent pin.
Can you please help me to identify the location of this prom?
Thanks.
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The CAPX prom is one of the game chips on your mpu board, the game chips are the ones installed in sockets and they usually have a paper label on top. The CAPX is the smaller one. On the board it should be written near each socketed chip the name of the chip, so look for "CAPX" nearby. See photo below for where I think the CAPX prom is located.
These type of chips have 2 rows of legs, one row on each side. The legs push down into the socket to make contact with the metal connections in the socket. The top of the chip has a notch on one end so it won't get installed backwards. The socket usually has a corresponding notch so the person installing the chip knows to orient the chip the right way. Also, generally the notch on the chips nearby are on the same end so that is a good indication, but you can't always go by that. If the chip can be erased and reprogrammed with different software then it has a clear window on the top, these type chips are called eproms. If there is no window then they are called proms. The paper label usually covers the window, so it can't be seen without removing the label.
Your mpu board photo from the other discussion thread is below, I've circled what I think is the CAPX chip. I've also marked the 5 volt regulator in case you have a voltmeter and want to verify it is ok. And I circled in light blue where I think the video signal circuit is located, look for 3 transistors near each other, that is the red, green and blue video drivers. Near them there should be a video chip, maybe marked with an "HC574" number but I'm positive about that.
But honestly your video problem could be caused by several things, I wouldn't start replacing parts on the mpu board without a reason. One of your power supply voltages could be bad, one of the game chips on the mpu board could be bad, something on the monitor circuit board could be bad, etc. It would really be better if you could figure out if your machine's problem is caused by a bad monitor, or a bad mpu board and go from there. You can proceed different ways, such as by getting another mpu board and try it. If that fixes it then great, and you can then see about repairing the bad mpu. But if the machine does the same thing then the monitor is probably the problem and now you have 2 mpu boards. Or you can send in the monitor for repair. In the casino or a repair shop they would have good spare parts to try in the machine to figure out what is wrong quickly but we often don't have that so we have to make a guess.
Below is an example of chips and sockets showing the notch, also the circuit board has a white outline that shows the notch. All of this is to ensure that the chip gets installed properly.
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The MPU may not be getting power to produce the video signals.
Check the output of your power supply.
In the first post he mentioned that the candle lights are flashing when the machine is powered on, so I believe the MPU is getting power and is working.
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The game can also work without a display if the MG0-MX0 chips are not in the board.
Game software is ready to play the game - then it writes the video.
If the look up tables or graphics drivers, or both, are not there the game part of the software does not know it and proceeds as normal.
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The MPU may not be getting power to produce the video signals.
Check the output of your power supply.
In the first post he mentioned that the candle lights are flashing when the machine is powered on, so I believe the MPU is getting power and is working.
Would you then suspect the monitor is the problem and he should concentrate in that area?
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His monitor does power on by the picture. This makes me believe the CRT is operational.. Does it have a good picture, that's to be determined yet.
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Looks like I may be headed in the direction of picking up a second MPU board. Swapping out the board is looking like the only real way I am going to figure this out. The worst outcome is I will buy a part I don't need, but it never hurts to have a backup board.
I will report back.
Thanks
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Looks like I may be headed in the direction of picking up a second MPU board. Swapping out the board is looking like the only real way I am going to figure this out. The worst outcome is I will buy a part I don't need, but it never hurts to have a backup board.
I will report back.
Thanks
I've seen in a email that Spin now fixes all boards for a flat rate of $95.00 I believe. You might want to contact them.. They might even work on the monitors chassis? Your other option is K-Lar, They do board repairs too.. 702-363-9998, talk to Alan..
http://www.spininc.com/ (http://www.spininc.com/)
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I charge $75 for boards and $125 to $145 for monitors.
702-363-9998
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I appreciate all the great help everyone has given.
Ok, so I picked up another MPU. Exact same problem.
Then I noticed I did not plug in the tray transformer. Plugged it in, and still same screen. Only difference was the candle wasn't blinking until I plugged in the tray transformer.
So I know the MPU board is controlling the candle, so the MPU has power and is functioning.
I am thinking, if there is no difference on the CRT from two different MPU's and a MPU with the tray transformer unplugged, I am not getting any video signal to the monitor.
So until I can get the MPU to put out something that will make the CRT do something, should I be concentrating my efforts away from the monitor? Or does this make it more likely to be a monitor problem?
Thanks for all the help!
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We're down to only two CRTs at our property and other than swapping out a chassis board I personally haven't worked on these dinosaurs very much. But here's a few things I found that I hope end up being helpful:
Here is the Ceronix Service manual (http://slot-tech.com/interesting_stuff/ceronix/xx92%20series/XX92_Service_Manual.pdf) which has among other things... schematics, block diagrams, and a component list for your monitor.
Those retrace lines (https://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_monfaq9.html#MONFAQ_012) could be caused by bad caps, a faulty flyback transformer, the blanking circuit?, or if you're lucky just an incorrectly set (Voltage/Brightness too high?) or failing pot which you could try adjusting (https://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_monfaq3.html#MONFAQ_010).
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With power on run the back of your hand across the front of the monitor, do you feel static electricity from the high voltage?
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I appreciate all the great help everyone has given.
Ok, so I picked up another MPU. Exact same problem.
Then I noticed I did not plug in the tray transformer. Plugged it in, and still same screen. Only difference was the candle wasn't blinking until I plugged in the tray transformer.
So I know the MPU board is controlling the candle, so the MPU has power and is functioning.
I am thinking, if there is no difference on the CRT from two different MPU's and a MPU with the tray transformer unplugged, I am not getting any video signal to the monitor.
So until I can get the MPU to put out something that will make the CRT do something, should I be concentrating my efforts away from the monitor? Or does this make it more likely to be a monitor problem?
Thanks for all the help!
my 2 cents,,,,,
By installing another mpu (and installing it correctly by connecting its power transformer) and seeing that there is still no image on the monitor I think this proves that the problem is either the monitor or the cabling from the mpu to the monitor. If the cable from the mpu to the monitor is good then I'd see about getting the monitor repaired or replaced.
The mpu creates the video signal but it still has to get processed by the monitor's circuit board in order to be displayed onto the screen. You monitor's circuit board could have a problem.
Another way to prove that your mpu board is ok would be to install it into another PE+ machine or send it out to be checked. Not sure that is needed though if the 2nd mpu board you installed is known to be good.
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I have a couple different early IGT poker machines that I could test his monitor board in. All I ask is that shipping is paid round trip. If it's a 1492 Ceronix chassis I do have a couple working units setup for IGT.
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We're down to only two CRTs at our property and other than swapping out a chassis board I personally haven't worked on these dinosaurs very much. But here's a few things I found that I hope end up being helpful:
Here is the Ceronix Service manual ([url]http://slot-tech.com/interesting_stuff/ceronix/xx92%20series/XX92_Service_Manual.pdf[/url]) which has among other things... schematics, block diagrams, and a component list for your monitor.
Those retrace lines ([url]https://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_monfaq9.html#MONFAQ_012[/url]) could be caused by bad caps, a faulty flyback transformer, the blanking circuit?, or if you're lucky just an incorrectly set (Voltage/Brightness too high?) or failing pot which you could try adjusting ([url]https://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_monfaq3.html#MONFAQ_010[/url]).
Thanks for the info, very helpful!
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With power on run the back of your hand across the front of the monitor, do you feel static electricity from the high voltage?
No, I do not feel any static electricity.
Update, after leaving it on for awhile, I turned it off. Then I had a lot of static electricity.
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I have a couple different early IGT poker machines that I could test his monitor board in. All I ask is that shipping is paid round trip. If it's a 1492 Ceronix chassis I do have a couple working units setup for IGT.
Yes, it is a 1492. I appreciate the offer. I just might have to take you up on that. I am also waiting for a reply from Ceronix, I only live about 40 miles from their Auburn CA facility.
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Ceronix doesn't do repairs on the chassis any more. I bought up some of there spare parts about a year or so back.
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Does Ceronix offer an LCD replacement for their CRT displays?
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Yea if you want to spend $500. :hissyfit:
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Yea if you want to spend $500. :hissyfit:
Dang! Is there something special about it, can other LCD's of the correct size be installed? Or does the machine use a special type of video signal that most retail LCD's aren't setup for? If the mpu board puts out an RGB video then you'd think you could make a cable that would connect it to the LCD's RGB inputs.
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I stand corrected... They are $377.00. Last time I looked they were in the High $400 range.. The monitor comes with every thing you need to up grade to LCD, plug and play. Then change out the monitor bezel..
https://www.ceronix.com/113-15-players-edge-upright.html (https://www.ceronix.com/113-15-players-edge-upright.html)
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Not sure I'm thinking about this entirely right, but it would gripe me to pay more for the display than I did for the entire working machine. Seems like working PE+ machines are often under $200.
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Not sure I'm thinking about this entirely right, but it would gripe me to pay more for the display than I did for the entire working machine. Seems like working PE+ machines are often under $200.
Here they go for $400-$500. One reason is that they have coin handling. Not everyone likes $$ in and tickets out.
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...I am also waiting for a reply from Ceronix, I only live about 40 miles from their Auburn CA facility.
If you get the chance take a tour! They host the Auburn Bird Sanctuary amongst other wildlife at their facility, I went to a training there a few months back it was a blast. Well worth a day trip out there.
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Is there something special about it, can other LCD's of the correct size be installed? Or does the machine use a special type of video signal that most retail LCD's aren't setup for? If the mpu board puts out an RGB video then you'd think you could make a cable that would connect it to the LCD's RGB inputs.
The machine outputs CGA video, which is a minor pain to deal with in the modern age.
That said, over time, we did get documented how to put a standard VGA computer monitor (including LCD monitors with a VGA input) into a PE+. There is a sticky thread in the PE+ section for how to do the conversion:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=336.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=336.0)
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The machine outputs CGA video, which is a minor pain to deal with in the modern age.
That said, over time, we did get documented how to put a standard VGA computer monitor (including LCD monitors with a VGA input) into a PE+. There is a sticky thread in the PE+ section for how to do the conversion:
[url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=336.0[/url] ([url]http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=336.0[/url])
Thanks for the link, I read that thread and it was quite an investigation into different attempts, even involving international ideas. So the solution to adding a normal retail LCD screen is to build or buy a cga-to-vga converter so the horiz scan freq is doubled, and also modify the video signals from the PE+ mpu board so that they get inverted? And that the LCD replacement monitor offered by Ceronix contains these needed conversions if someone wants to go that way.
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Not sure I'm thinking about this entirely right, but it would gripe me to pay more for the display than I did for the entire working machine. Seems like working PE+ machines are often under $200.
Here they go for $400-$500. One reason is that they have coin handling. Not everyone likes $$ in and tickets out.
yeah, you're right, here they can sometimes be found for $250-$300, don't know why I thought they are under $200.
I hate getting older. :shower:
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Thanks for the link, I read that thread and it was quite an investigation into different attempts, even involving international ideas. So the solution to adding a normal retail LCD screen is to build or buy a cga-to-vga converter so the horiz scan freq is doubled, and also modify the video signals from the PE+ mpu board so that they get inverted? And that the LCD replacement monitor offered by Ceronix contains these needed conversions if someone wants to go that way.
Correct on all counts.