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Author Topic: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.  (Read 3034 times)

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Offline Melissarmdlm

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My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« on: January 12, 2018, 08:49:46 PM »
I am getting the message "Cabinet type not allowed for this game" on my conversion machine. There are several questionable components in my setup, so I thought I would seek some expertise.


1. I am using old green BB1 backplane, Is this compatible with my NXT3.2 at all or am I wasting time? At my point in the setup the OS/Logic hasn't listed any device errors
2. Maybe I am doing the emotive lighting bypass wrong(Seeing it wrong?), or the shown bypass doesn't work on the green backplane?
3. My -game- (Cool Jewels) excludes 22" monitors, despite the fact that we use these same Kristel 22" on numerous NXT3 conversions at work.
4. I am using a 22" NEC for top monitor.


Any ideas to get this rig running?


Offline Melissarmdlm

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 09:09:21 PM »
Some pics from the mess:

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 05:20:29 AM »
Can you post a pic of your emotive jumper? (4th pin in from the top right of J14 to the 4th diode in from the lower right of the diodes/thingys above.)

Does this game need the larger Blade monitors? and/or you are using DVI out to the top monitor?

Have you tried a different game set all together?

Offline idesign

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 07:04:50 AM »
The cabinet error on blade games is usually indicative of a emotive controller being missing.   Your last pic confirms it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 07:53:25 AM by idesign »
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 11:47:47 PM »
Okay updates: In short I have the game running! Thanks to Bpracer, and my local work friends, messing with our test machine.


And yet I still have a single hiccup...My Standard EBB button panel isn't working? ( nor my basic panel.) My OLED panel is out for repair at the moment. I'll be investigating this too with the test bed machine I have access to.


Pics show the emotive bypass, the cabinet ID jumper and the launched game.


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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 07:33:20 AM »
What is the cabinet I’d jumpervyou are referring to? I see the emotive jumper
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Offline Melissarmdlm

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 07:08:28 PM »

All going.



https://youtu.be/Fdx7QhfACIY




"What is the cabinet I’d jumpervyou are referring to? I see the emotive jumper."

In the backplane picture the cabinet jumpers are black and purple wire loops in the plug. That plug is above the emotive lighting jumper.

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2019, 09:32:16 PM »

All going.



https://youtu.be/Fdx7QhfACIY




"What is the cabinet I’d jumpervyou are referring to? I see the emotive jumper."

In the backplane picture the cabinet jumpers are black and purple wire loops in the plug. That plug is above the emotive lighting jumper.


Where in the world did you get the idea to make those wire jumpers?    What are the exact pin numbers?

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2019, 01:04:38 PM »
What are the pin numbers for the cabinet ID jumpers
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2019, 07:13:10 AM »
How exactly do the cabinet id jumpers help at all.  I have cool jewels running on my bb2 cabinet with just the emotive controller and the nxt3.2 mpu. 
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2019, 11:58:38 AM »
How exactly do the cabinet id jumpers help at all.  I have cool jewels running on my bb2 cabinet with just the emotive controller and the nxt3.2 mpu.
The reason I ask is I discovered that the newer games won't play on a BB2 with a BB3 CPU in it.  They error out looking for a Blade cabinet. I know for a fact that a Blade cabinet has a different harness connected to J10, with a different pinout.  I also heard from 2 different sources too that the 23" monitor in a Blade cabinet may be what the games are looking for, but I have no way to confirm this.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 02:14:31 PM by idesign »
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2019, 01:52:49 PM »
How exactly do the cabinet id jumpers help at all.  I have cool jewels running on my bb2 cabinet with just the emotive controller and the nxt3.2 mpu.
The reason I ask is I discovered that the newer games won't play on a BB2 with a BB3 CPU in it.  They error out looking for a Blade cabinet. I know for a fact that a Blade cabinet has a different harness connected to J21, with a different pinout.  I also heard from 2 different sources too that the 23" monitor in a Blade cabinet may be what the games are looking for, but I have no way to confirm this.

Did you try jumpering 9 to 11 on J10?

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2019, 02:23:03 PM »

Did you try jumpering 9 to 11 on J10?
No, does it fool the machine into thinking it a Blade?  If it does will have to try that but I see a black wire connected to 11 in your pic and neither of my BB2 machines have a connection to 11.  What machine is that out of?
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2019, 03:35:18 PM »

Did you try jumpering 9 to 11 on J10?
No, does it fool the machine into thinking it a Blade?  If it does will have to try that but I see a black wire connected to 11 in your pic and neither of my BB2 machines have a connection to 11.  What machine is that out of?

That was a BB2, I forget the error we were seeing but had to install the jumper in order to get it to play with the NXT 3.

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2019, 05:08:17 PM »
I spent last weekend on this..

Let's take a look at pins 9, 10, 11, 12 on J10.  Starting with pins 11 and 12, those are ground.  Pins 9 and 10 are SYSID0 and SYSID1  (bits 0 and 1).
Adding these bits together, we can get a value of 3, or 4 different combinations. 0 (gnd, gnd), 1 (gnd, open), 2 (open, gnd), 3 (open, open).    By default, the bits are HIGH, a 1 (open). 
When grounded they go to 0.

By looking at a boot log of a failed Blade check:
Cabinet Explicit Value:   0 = Cab_BBxD,  1 = Cab_BB2e, 2 = Cab_BBS, 3 = Cab_Error, 4 = Cab_GFxD, 5 = Cab_GFxDv1, 6 = Cab_GFxDv2,  7 = Cab_Blade1, 8 = Cab_Blade2, 9 = Cab_s320, 10 = s23 ..  Let me write it a different way
 BBxD = 0
 BB2e = 1
 BBS  = 2
 Error = 3
 GFxD = 4
 GFxDv1 = 5
 GFxDv2 = 6
 Blade1 = 7
 Blade2 = 8
 s320  = 9
 s23 = 10

......................................

That said, the cabinet I was looking at did not have a pin in pin 9 position of the connector on J10, so it is always open (bit 0 has a bit value of 1 when high/open).  Pin 10 (bit 1) was sent to pin 12 (ground)., this makes a bit value of 1.
The Blade connector going to J10 has no pins in 9, 10, 11, or 12.  so those are always going to be open (bit 0 and bit 1; bit 1 has a bit value of 2), this makes a bit value of 3.

For fun, added a pin to pin 9, retested with various bit settings to confirm this is indeed what is going on.

....................................

The game we were working with wants a value of 7 or 8 (blade1 or blade2).  There has to be a SYSID2 pin/bit somewhere.   With the SYSID2 pin, this would be bit 2, a value of 4.   It must currently be sent to ground.  If this bit was added to SYSID0 and SYSID1, we could get a value of 7.    Furthermore, if there is a SYSID3 pin,  THAT single pin would be bit4 and have a value of 8.    It seems logical they would have 4 bits.   Where are the other 2 bits?   Well, I know they are not pins 21, 22, (or 23 and 24 for that matter, they are ground).   

In the case of the game in this topic, I think it is Jewels or somethng, candy drops, whatever,  if putting pins 9 and 10 to ground (pins 11, 12 respectively) makes the game work, then I'd say the game was looking for a cabinet type of 0, BBxD.   Since both pins are grounded, it would make the bits 0.  Therefore, the check would be 0.

....................................

Conclusion, the SYSID check is either a 3 bit or 4 bit value.  Not just 2 pins/bits.    A pin, depending on which one, manipulates the bit value of the SYSID.
By manipulating the grounding of pins 9 and 10  (to pins 11, and 12 respectively) we manipulate the SYSID bit values to be 0, 1, 2, or 3.
Since there is a check (and table) for other cabinets in newer games, it is suspected there are 1 or 2 additional SYSID pins/bits that are sent to ground initially to only make values below 4.  By finding these bits and manipulating them, we have more values.

I will try to add attachment of a Blade J10 connector.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 07:26:43 PM by Eddiie »

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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2019, 04:09:07 PM »

The reason I ask is I discovered that the newer games won't play on a BB2 with a BB3 CPU in it.  They error out looking for a Blade cabinet. I know for a fact that a Blade cabinet has a different harness connected to J10, with a different pinout.  I also heard from 2 different sources too that the 23" monitor in a Blade cabinet may be what the games are looking for, but I have no way to confirm this.

Which games are these that don't work?  I have a blade cabinet now and can see what I can come up with.  On a CPUNXT3.5 the monitors work correctly with a blade, on a bb2 cabinet, I have to switch the top and bottom around to get it to work, but that has been the only thing I've found to be different between the two as far as functionality.   I have not loaded any games on the bb2 that are bb3 since I got my blade, but all the games I had until then had worked fine.
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »

The reason I ask is I discovered that the newer games won't play on a BB2 with a BB3 CPU in it.  They error out looking for a Blade cabinet. I know for a fact that a Blade cabinet has a different harness connected to J10, with a different pinout.  I also heard from 2 different sources too that the 23" monitor in a Blade cabinet may be what the games are looking for, but I have no way to confirm this.

Which games are these that don't work?  I have a blade cabinet now and can see what I can come up with.  On a CPUNXT3.5 the monitors work correctly with a blade, on a bb2 cabinet, I have to switch the top and bottom around to get it to work, but that has been the only thing I've found to be different between the two as far as functionality.   I have not loaded any games on the bb2 that are bb3 since I got my blade, but all the games I had until then had worked fine.
Life of Luxury Multi-Game.  It's a LAP game.  Works fine in a Blade but not in a BB2 with a BB3 CPU.  Pic below in a Blade.
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2019, 04:45:04 PM »
See pic below of what I get when I turn the key on this game.  Interesting message never seen before.
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2019, 08:12:05 PM »
I thought you needed extra hardware even on a blade to run these?  So these run on a blade stand-alone, without LAP hardware?  I think I can get a set of these for next to nothing, I just didn't bother because I thought it needed a lap server.
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Re: My own NXT1 to NXT3 conversion issues.
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2019, 06:14:24 AM »
I thought you needed extra hardware even on a blade to run these?  So these run on a blade stand-alone, without LAP hardware?  I think I can get a set of these for next to nothing, I just didn't bother because I thought it needed a lap server.
No, the game runs on a Blade but still needs the LAP controller.
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