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Author Topic: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light  (Read 12115 times)

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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2015, 11:36:20 AM »
Yes, everything else works fine. I can see the lights are wired in series, different color wires on the last three lamps than the first two, but have yet to try swapping the switches. I will get into this this afternoon and will respond with my results.
 I did use a temporary jumper on the positive leg between switch #2 and #3 which in turn lit #3,4 and 5 and flashed as required. So let me do some more checking. I want to re-trace the positive lead from the #3 switch back to the molex connector at the main board and check for voltage or at least continuity through the wire.

If I follow what you are saying the lamps for buttons 3,4,5 are wired in series with the lamps for buttons #1 and #2, it's just that the last 3 use a different color of wire? Or do you mean the last 3 button lamps are wired separately and not in series with buttons #1 and #2? Does it look like original wiring or do you suspect someone made changes to it in the past? If you leave that temporary jumper in place would buttons #3,4,5 work normally, same as buttons #1 and 2? If so you can try leaving the jumper there and test that all 5 buttons work properly to Hold or Cancel a card. Without knowing more at this time it sounds like button #2 or 3 may have a bad contact/terminal/connection internally and isn't passing the lamp voltage to the next button in series.

From looking at the schematic drawing I have for the mpu, which is for the 904 mpu, it looks like the button lamps are controlled by a couple of large 6520 ic's. On my schematic they are called U34 and U39 but on your board they be named/numbered different. They should be easy to find, they are about the largest ic's on the board, are in sockets, with a marking on the top that includes "6520" in it. These chips operate by control of the software, I'd think they are ok if all you have to do is add a jumper from pushbutton #2 to #3, but you could try switching the two 6520 ic's with each, they are identical. Be careful about bending any pins if you do swap them.

All 5 buttons are the Hold/Cancel buttons for video poker? If needed, maybe someone with a similar CEI/Cal Omega machine can post a photo of their button wiring for you to compare.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 12:03:51 PM by rokgpsman »
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Offline tomco

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2015, 12:23:44 PM »
Sorry if I confused you. Switches #1 & #2 are wired in series and #3,4 & 5 are in a separate series. It looks like all original wiring.
  I did leave the jumper in and checked the function of the machine and everything works as expected. I would leave it, but i'm concerned I might be overloading the circuit.
 I will check the board for the IC's you mentioned and attempt a swap to see if I can find one that follows the failure, and also check switches #2 & #3 for contact issues.

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 01:36:54 PM »
Sorry if I confused you. Switches #1 & #2 are wired in series and #3,4 & 5 are in a separate series. It looks like all original wiring.
Not to worry, some days it doesn't take too much to confuse me.

  I did leave the jumper in and checked the function of the machine and everything works as expected. I would leave it, but i'm concerned I might be overloading the circuit.
 I will check the board for the IC's you mentioned and attempt a swap to see if I can find one that follows the failure, and also check switches #2 & #3 for contact issues.

This is just a guess,,,,,
The schematic drawing is faint and hard to read in some places but it looks like there is a group of 5 button switch lamps controlled by one of the 6520 ic's, named U34 U54. It turns the lamps on and off by switching an SCR (sort of like a high current transistor or a gated diode, but different characteristics). Each lamp has its own SCR. The SCR for lamps #3, #4 and #5 are called CR19, CR20 and CR21 on my schematic and should be near ic's U55, U56 and U57. Keep in mind that your mpu board could use different parts designator names than the drawing I am using. EDIT- button lamps #3,4,5 are all operated by CR20. Thanks Doyle!

The SCR looks like a tall 3 legged flat transistor, metal fin on the top. They are usually soldered to the board and standing vertically. Would seem unlikely that 3 SCR's would be bad but maybe if you look around in that area closely you'll see something amiss, like maybe a circuit trace burned open or something since the SCR's all get their power from the same circuit trace.

Can you post a photo of your mpu board, camera angle looking at the front of the board so I can see the components? That would probably help others too, as there is little information on these machines and the variations on them.

The schematic shows that the other 6520 ic (called U34 U39) controls another group of 4 lamps in a similar way. I don't have a machine chassis wiring diagram so can't see how the button lamps get connected to the mpu. If you have the chassis wiring diagram please send it you me, my email address can be shown by clicking on the "Mail this user" link over to the left of this message. Or you can contact me with a private message (click PM, over on the left).
 
EDIT- corrected typos
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 12:04:39 AM by rokgpsman »
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Offline tomco

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 05:57:43 PM »
Pix of board

Offline rokgpsman

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 06:26:45 PM »
your 904 mpu photo with some notes.

EDIT- updated photo notes.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 12:01:50 AM by rokgpsman »
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2015, 06:55:14 PM »
Saw your notes U39 is right U34? is U54. U34 is small 14 pin IC located lower right of your box. So is it possible all three SCR's are bad or would I look to the IC???
Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2015, 07:43:41 PM »
Saw your notes U39 is right U34? is U54. U34 is small 14 pin IC located lower right of your box. So is it possible all three SCR's are bad or would I look to the IC???
Tom
thanks for the info about U54, I couldn't see the ic name written on the board in photo and the drawing is kinda fuzzy in that area!! I will correct my photo so someone doesn't get mislead later looking at it and not reading these comments.

It would seem unlikely that all 3 SCR's would be bad, they are rugged. That was why I mentioned that maybe a board trace (path) was burned open in the SCR area, that would explain all 3 not working. But I suppose a short in the button wiring harness might have zapped all 3 of them but I'd hate to see you change all 3 and still have the same problem. You could swap just one of them, say CR19, with one of the SCR's that is working, like CR17 or CR18 and see if that changes things. I don't have a Cal Omega machine to play with to see how it exactly works, so it is hard to advise on what to check or measure a certain voltage to figure out exact failure. Does both sides of the board look ok in that SCR area, no darkened parts or traces, no bubbled solder from overheating, no cracks on the SCR body, nothing suspicious?

Another question- I saw in your photo that Dipswitch #2 has positions 5 and 6 both set to ON (closed), I was under the impression that they are normally set to OFF (open) position for normal machine operation. #5 is an input to U54 and may affect its operation regarding the button #3,4,5 lamp switches. #6 affects how the master reset circuit works, is used for troubleshooting.

Try setting these switches to opposite position with machine turned off, one at a time, and see if there are any changes after powering back up.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 08:27:12 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2015, 08:45:22 PM »
Thanks for the tips, I will check the dipswitches as you suggest. Tomorrow when I have more light I will take a better look at the circuit board and the components. I already looked it over pretty well, but with your help I can focus on the area's and components you pointed out.


Thanks again
Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2015, 09:11:52 PM »
Discard lamps 3,4,5 come off the same driver CR20 and U57
CR 19 and U56 drives discard lamps 1,2 and cancel
on the game board the lamp are labeled as
L 1 Bet
L 2 Deal/Draw
L 3 Cancel and discard 1 , 2
L 4 Discard 3,4,5
L 7 Collect
L 9 Stand
 The lamp come off the mother board on J 203 discard 3,4,5 are on pin 6 green wire
doyle

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2015, 09:56:21 PM »
Thanks Doyle, appreciate your knowledge on this. This is good news, it means that one SCR (CR20) controls all 3 of the button lamps #3,4,5 so it could be causing the problem. And there is one wire from J203 that operates buttons #3,4,5 so it could be broken and causing the problem. I'd bet this wire is more likely to be bad than something on the mpu, we'll see what tomco finds out.

Also, if you have any wiring diagrams on the machine chassis cabinet showing push button wiring and the KAR board connection we'd appreciate getting them from you. Not sure the ones we are using apply to this machine.

Tomco- this information from Doyle points at CR20 or U57 as a possibility of being your problem. You could try replacing CR20 first as it is easier. But you should probably make sure the wiring is ok first, check on the motherboard at J203 pin 6 for a green wire and follow it to destination. Hopefully you'll find that the wire is broken somewhere. This is more likely your problem since the button #3,4,5 lamps worked ok when you added that jumper to the green wire from buttons #1,2.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 11:52:18 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2015, 10:07:27 PM »
Got it, thank you and Doyle for all your wealth of information. I'll keep you updated on my progress.


Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2015, 10:09:11 PM »
this information from Doyle points at CR20 or U57 as a possibility of being your problem. You could try replacing CR20 first as it is easier. But you should probably make sure the wiring is ok first, check on the motherboard at J203 pin 6 for a green wire and follow it to destination. Hopefully you'll find that the wire is broken somewhere. This is more likely your problem since the button #3,4,5 lamps worked ok when you added that jumper to the green wire from buttons #1,2.
 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 11:49:49 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2015, 10:06:40 PM »
Today's update: Checked continuity from molex for J203 connector pin #5 green wire (don't have 6 only 5) and wire is good to the switch. This makes me believe I need to start replacing components. Should I start with the SCR first ???? It would be the easiest of the two.



Tom

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2015, 10:22:37 PM »
Today's update: Checked continuity from molex for J203 connector pin #5 green wire (don't have 6 only 5) and wire is good to the switch. This makes me believe I need to start replacing components. Should I start with the SCR first ???? It would be the easiest of the two.

Tom

Hold on, don't start replacing mpu parts just yet. This sounds like a possible miswire to me. You are saying that the green wire from your Discard buttons #3,4,5 go to pin 5 of J203, instead of pin 6?  I think that is wrong, does it look like factory original connection? I think you should try moving that green wire from J203-5 to J203-6 as Doyle and the wiring diagram indicates.

 
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2015, 10:57:30 PM »
Yes, it looks as if it has never been touched. On the molex connector from right to left there are five wires next to each other, as in no open connections. Then there are two open connections with two wired connections and one open at the end. I will attach pix.

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2015, 11:03:10 PM »
I can't see how the connector J203 is numbered, is it 1 thru 10 from left to right, or vice-versa? If from right to left then the green wire is on pin 6???  Are there markings on the board showing connector pin numbers?


.....On the molex connector from right to left there are five wires next to each other, as in no open connections. Then there are two open connections with two wired connections and one open at the end. I will attach pix.

you meant to say from left to right there are 5 wires next to each other.... right?
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2015, 11:20:00 PM »
Yes, I see, I was counting left to right, but from right to left it is #6. I'll look to see if any numbering is on the connector or the board.

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2015, 11:23:45 PM »
Okay, after removing the connector there is a 1 on th right and a 10 on the left which would make the green wire at the #6 position.

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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2015, 11:30:24 PM »
Okay, after removing the connector there is a 1 on th right and a 10 on the left which would make the green wire at the #6 position.

it's funny and seems backward of them to number it that way. But if pin 1 is the first one on the right then the green wire is #6 and it matches the wiring diagram.

So that sounds like the wiring is the way it is supposed to be. And that green wire goes to the buttons #3,4,5? If so then maybe your mpu board does have a problem and I agree that changing the SCR CR20 would be a logical place to try.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 12:47:15 AM by rokgpsman »
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Re: CEI video poker hold lights 3,4 and 5 do not light
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2015, 12:48:09 AM »

Just to double-check this,

did you change dipswitch #2, positions 5 and 6 to OFF (open) and try the game? Both of those are normally in the OFF position. The #5 position affects how the lamps operate with some game software. I noticed in the photo of your mpu that they were ON.
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