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Author Topic: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...  (Read 38586 times)

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Offline Mk1Mod0

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Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« on: November 10, 2014, 02:16:19 PM »
Looking to see how deep the rabbit hole is on these things. From what I can deduce so far, parts are few and far between. Only one of them is complete and I am looking for base information. (Manual, troubleshooting tips, schematics, etc.) Info on anything WMS seems sketchy at best. The only good news is that I happen to have a good supply of 555 bulbs and TIP102s already. I have spent enough time under the hood of lots of EM and S/S games to get the basics down, but slots are new to me. Can't be that different, right? :duh:   Any and all help is greatly appreciated!  (Games are Jackpot Party, Stampede Deluxe and Perfect Match.)

Offline rickhunter

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2014, 03:12:58 PM »
The Dotmations are pretty much computers with stepper motors and displays, so other than tracing wires, your EM experience is not going to serve you all that well.  Does the "complete one" function?  If it does, it is a good place to start as you can then harness that to get the other ones working and to see which parts you need.  You CAN find parts for them if you look well enough, but some of the parts are going to pricey (like the plasma display).  I believe there's a full set of schematics in the download area, but you have to be a contributing member to get those.
If you find the site helpful, consider becoming a contributing member.  It pays for costs and keeps this site alive.  I do not respond to requests for private, one-on-one help. Your questions should be posted in the appropriate forum where they may help others as well.

Offline Tmmybahama

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 04:49:00 PM »
I had 20+ of these machines and just sold the final 9 to another member who is picking me up in a week or two.  I may be able to help u out with some questions n I will ask the client if he plans on selling any parts.  All of the machines are Winning Streaks, X Factors, and Jackpot Party machines, FYI.   Let me know what parts you need n see if we can help you out.
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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 07:04:19 PM »
Hi Mk1mod0,
I purchased 9 dotmation WMS games from Tmmybahama.
I'll be picking the games up this Monday in Salt Lake City UT then driving to Seattle WA area with them.
If your on the way I'd be happy to stop by your place and help you with parts, or I can pull the parts out and ship them to you when I get home.
Those are really fun machines, I know you'll enjoy them if ya get them running.
There are a couple mods like installing computer power supplies in them that makes the machines pretty dependable too, and it's an easy job!
 

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 07:22:49 PM »
I'm in Corpus Christi, TX, so not on the way. Thanks to everyone for quick replies. Right now I am just trying to figure out what may or may not be missing. I have read about transitioning them to an ATX power supply and will definitely do that.

Offline mustangjeep

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 07:31:11 PM »
If you find out what you need just let me know.
I'll be parting out at least 3 of the games to get some of mine running, everything I don't need can be sold of pretty reasonably.

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2014, 07:57:09 PM »
The only thing I know for certain at this point is that 2 of the 3 have neither of the two cards in the box holder of the lower section.  I do have 1 set of cards with the Jackpot Party game chips. Missing one reel and the upper glass from the Perfect Match. And for some reason, all of the hopper discs have gameroom tokens glued to them. Go figure.  Missing two coin outer hoppers and whatever holds all of the coins inside. I would hope those are universal to WMS machines and not specific to these models. Yeah, I'm a wishful thinker.

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 09:08:45 PM »
The only thing I know for certain at this point is that 2 of the 3 have neither of the two cards in the box holder of the lower section.  I do have 1 set of cards with the Jackpot Party game chips. Missing one reel and the upper glass from the Perfect Match. And for some reason, all of the hopper discs have gameroom tokens glued to them. Go figure.  Missing two coin outer hoppers and whatever holds all of the coins inside. I would hope those are universal to WMS machines and not specific to these models. Yeah, I'm a wishful thinker.

Welcome to the Williams dotmation world. Though perhaps not as plentiful or popular as IGT slots they are indeed fun machines and there are several people here familiar with them. Other than power supplies they are pretty dependable. I've attached the Williams manual for these machines below.

They are typically referred to as "WMS 40X" models since there were a few variations to the model number. The dotmation models are based on the previous WMS 400 models, which are a normal 3 reel slot. The dotmation feature was a way to add a bonus round for enhanced play.

There is an id plate mounted on the outside of the machine on the handle side, down near one corner, it will give the actual model number of the machine. The built in diagnostics and setup routines are good for adjusting personal preferences like volume sound, testing all of the machine lamps and digital displays, etc. The manual covers all of it, plus has part numbers for the major assemblies and hardware. The bill validator used in the machine was typically a JCM DBV-145 and DBV-200, but that can be upgraded to newer compatible models I believe. The usual bill validator comm protocol is ID-044 but there are variations to that.

The 2 circuit cards in the card cage are the CPU board and the I/O board. These boards are available but often the CPU is harder to find. The game software for a particular game is contained in eproms that plug into the CPU board, along with the corresponding game sound eproms. There is a companion pair of eproms for the particular game that plug into the dotmation controller board that is located behind the dot matrix screen in the upper part of the machine. The dot matrix screen is mounted to a metal box, inside the box is a +12vdc power supply board and the dotmation controller board. The main power supply for the machine is a large gray box mounted to the inside of the left wall of the lower area. You'll recognize it by the large red power switch mounted on the front end toward you.

Have fun!




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Offline Mk1Mod0

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2014, 11:17:15 PM »
Thanks for providing me a manual. That's a big help. Two of the three machines have PDUs but they both appear to be toast. Gonna have to do some ATX PSU hacking. All three of the DMDs appear to be in good condition. 1 is complete, 1 is missing the power supply board and the third is missing both boards and the backing box. Let the adventures begin.

Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 01:15:06 AM »
The power supply board inside the dot matrix box is simply a +12vdc supply, so there are many choices for a replacement. People often use an inexpensive pc computer power supply, it fits in the top cabinet and you can connect the +12vdc output and gnd wires to the cable that formerly came from the original dot matrix power supply board. That +12vdc is only used by the dotmation controller board and the dot matrix screen.

Alternatively, if you use a pc computer power supply to repair the lower power supply unit then you can run a couple of long wires from it carrying the +12vdc and gnd to the dot matrix box.

The dotmation controller card is available, I've seen them priced as low as $25, but prices on used parts can vary a lot depending on the seller. One place to try is Rudy's Deals, they often carry Williams parts. If you don't see it listed on their website you can message them on the website or call them, they often have stuff that isn't listed on the website, they part out machines that they buy at auction or wherever.

The lower power supply unit (aka the pdu) can also be repaired, there are replacement power supply boards that replace the bad board inside the pdu. Some people feel that replacing the power supply board with another similar one leads to another failure down the line since it is marginal designed power supply, that's why they suggest installing a pc power supply to provide the +5, +12 and -12  voltages. But there are newer after market replacement boards that claim to be better reliability. Each owner has to decide how he wants to handle it. If you want to replace the power supply board that's inside the lower power supply (main pdu) then different people sell these, one is an NLG user named tollguy316.

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=3812.msg19646#msg19646

The dot matrix enclosure box should be available although I've never looked for one. Since it isn't visible you could probably come up with a metal box that works made from sheet metal similar to the stuff they use for home ductwork until you locate the real enclosure. But if you ask around or post a WTB ad in the classifieds area listing all the items you want people will chime in letting you know they have one or where you might be able to get one. I would bet someone has that empty metal box left over from a parts machine. You might call or message Rudy's to see if they have one.


There's a lot of satisfaction in getting one of these oldies running. And if you get tired of it they can be sold to someone else.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 12:59:22 PM by rokgpsman »
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Offline Mk1Mod0

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 09:18:51 AM »
OK. I have digested the PDU schematic and found it to be a pretty simple thing to replace the transformer part with an ATX power supply. I may even have the correct size molex connector sitting in one of my pin part bins. (I throw away nothing!) I can also use it to power up the DMD up top. I really don't see the point in getting the same prone to fail card in the PDU. I am not a purist. I often double as the sheet metal guy at work so making a new box won't be a problem. I'll just dupe one of the two I have.

And now for some questions. These machines were probably all stripped to some degree to keep others up and running. There is no cord connecting the keypad, card reader and digital readout (for error codes and such) to anything else and no loose cords in any of the machines. I assume it's not magic and there is a cord of some kind that connects them to the CPU? Also, there is nothing providing power into the 12vdc card at the DMD. There is a plug of small wires going into the DMD control card and then larger power wires from that card to the 12vdc card. Where is that power coming from? Thanks for all your help so far. I may get a bong out of one of them yet!

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 10:03:55 AM »
Post some pics. They always seem to make troubleshooting easier. I've done the ATX power supply swap to replace the top and bottom supply. It was pretty easy.

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 10:38:55 AM »
OK. I have digested the PDU schematic and found it to be a pretty simple thing to replace the transformer part with an ATX power supply. I may even have the correct size molex connector sitting in one of my pin part bins. (I throw away nothing!) I can also use it to power up the DMD up top. I really don't see the point in getting the same prone to fail card in the PDU. I am not a purist. I often double as the sheet metal guy at work so making a new box won't be a problem. I'll just dupe one of the two I have.

And now for some questions. These machines were probably all stripped to some degree to keep others up and running. There is no cord connecting the keypad, card reader and digital readout (for error codes and such) to anything else and no loose cords in any of the machines. I assume it's not magic and there is a cord of some kind that connects them to the CPU? Also, there is nothing providing power into the 12vdc card at the DMD. There is a plug of small wires going into the DMD control card and then larger power wires from that card to the 12vdc card. Where is that power coming from? Thanks for all your help so far. I may get a bong out of one of them yet!


It does sound like parts here & there were taken out of the machines to repair other machines. The one that is most complete can be a partial guide to what is missing in the others. When you are working in a particular area like the top box or the bottom of cabinet I or others here can send pictures of what it looks like on a complete machine to give you an idea of what should be there.

Inside the dotmation metal box in the top part of cabinet there are 2 boards and the dot matrix screen attaches to the front. The board on the right is the +12vdc power supply. It gets 115vac from a cable that runs down to the main power supply, also called the lower power supply. There are 2 rows of connectors on the side of the lower power supply, the bottom row of connectors are all identical, they contain 115vac. Several cables connect here to this bottom row of 6 position connectors for the fluorescent lighting inside the machine and for power to the dotmation box in the upper part of machine. You can plug any of the 115vac cables into any of these bottom row connectors since they are all the same.

Keep in mind that the lower power supply contains 2 boards. One is the power supply board that makes the +12, -12 and 5vdc voltages. It is the board that often fails. But there is another board in there that is part of the power distribution and it also makes the +18vdc and the +5vi voltages. So when you add a new pc computer power supply it does not replace the lower power supply, it supplements it. As far as I know you have to leave the lower power supply unit in the machine, disconnect a couple of cables inside that go to the bad power supply board and then connect the additional wires from the pc computer power supply to bring in the +5, +12 and -12 vdc.

On the old NLG website that is being kept as an archive there is a lot of good info on repairing the dotmation machines. Here are some links to get you started:


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=346.0


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=27195.0


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=805.0



And here are some pictures that might be helpful:
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 09:11:48 PM by rokgpsman »
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Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 11:16:30 AM »
more pictures
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 12:46:27 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 01:05:58 PM »

And now for some questions. These machines were probably all stripped to some degree to keep others up and running. There is no cord connecting the keypad, card reader and digital readout (for error codes and such) to anything else and no loose cords in any of the machines. I assume it's not magic and there is a cord of some kind that connects them to the CPU? ...

This part of your question about the keypad and digital readout sounds like you are maybe referring to a player tracking panel located just above the door where you insert a player card. Most home machines don't use this panel, many don't even have it installed, there is a blank panel in its place. The missing cable and wiring probably connected back to a small comm board that was removed. The panel itself was probably left in place so there wouldn't be an empty space and spoil the appearance of the machine.

All of the wiring to that panel and the associated comm board can be removed. Not many people try to get that panel functioning for a home machine, it is just to track a persons play in the casino and connect back to the casino server. It wouldn't serve any purpose for the home user. But a picture of this area would help us to know for sure, just in case I am off in left field on my thinking.

As others have suggested, if you can post a few pictures of the machine, outside views and inside views, we can more easily spot things to tell you about. Otherwise we are just guessing and something could get overlooked that could cause a delay or wasted time for you later.
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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 01:36:07 PM »
Hello.


I have a beautiful, clean, immaculate  "Jackpot Limbo" dotmation game that I am willingto sell cheap.  It has a working BV, and coin in/out system. Takes bills and quarters.


I am in Dallas if you want to come get it..............


$500 takes it.


Steve
Steve

Offline Mk1Mod0

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 03:03:08 PM »
Third attempt...

Thanks, Steve, but where would be the fun in buying a working machine? I appreciate the kind offer.

Here is a pic of the panel I am referring to.

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2014, 03:05:00 PM »
Am troubleshooting the first power supply. When plugged in, I get power to where indicated but nowhere else.

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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2014, 03:22:02 PM »

Here is a pic of the panel I am referring to.

Yes, that's a players club tracking panel. [doesn't look like it came from the Venetian or Bellagio.  :)    These machines got passed around from one casino to another as they saw their casino life ending, often at smaller & less prosperous places so the in-house IT operation that made that tracking panel didn't have the resources of a Vegas strip property. But no doubt it served the same purpose & worked fine for them]

It would have been connected by cables & wires to a casino network comm board, usually inside the upper cabinet behind the dot matrix box. But the comm board may have been removed by the casino already since it could be reused on another machine when they got rid of this machine. Or a previous owner may have removed it. This player tracking panel doesn't have anything to do with the operation of the machine so it's ok if it isn't working or connected to anything. Most people disconnect and remove all the cables & wires going to the tracking panel, or tie them up in a neat little bundle out of the way.

It won't hurt anything to leave the tracking panel installed in the machine for appearance reasons so you won't have an empty space, or you can get a blanking panel to install there, different places sell them, some people make their own. The panel usually has some sort of channel or bracket to support the upper game artwork glass piece since it rests on the top edge of the panel. Williams made the machine cabinet with a space there for casinos to either install a blanking panel or a tracking panel.

Below are some dotmation machines showing the different ways of doing the blanking panel or tracking panel. Sometimes the panel has a black rubbery material glued to it, I've also seen a mirror glass piece glued there. You could remove the pushbuttons and digital readout from your panel and then cover it with something so it has a smooth blank finish.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 03:53:24 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Bought 3 dotmations, starting from scratch...
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2014, 04:27:32 PM »
Am troubleshooting the first power supply. When plugged in, I get power to where indicated but nowhere else.

It looks like the power supply is missing.......should be attached to the 4 screws.

 

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