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Author Topic: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only  (Read 11636 times)

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Offline DavidLee

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2016, 04:59:52 PM »
Photo of the coil.

Offline Amechanic

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2016, 05:10:08 PM »
The coil I'm wondering about is the odd relay not the stepper unit. Sounds like I have the wrong coil
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2016, 05:37:00 PM »
G31-1800 odds coil on this machine.

Offline Amechanic

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2016, 05:56:22 PM »
G31-1800 odds coil on this machine.

Time to do so digging, whats stronger the G31-1800, or the G31-2200 that I have.. Where are my manuals.. :Scratch-Head: :EmoticonHelp4:
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2016, 05:58:25 PM »
1800

Having phone and internet problems

Offline Amechanic

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2016, 07:02:14 PM »
Thanks Jon  :hail:  Give me a call when you can..  Gary
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2016, 07:21:23 PM »
David. Does your 809 have this JP Lock Up Relay in your feature unit? See Pic.. I was looking thru book and found this break down of the 809 feature unit. This one I have does not have that relay. Might explain the wire that were not connected..

Gary
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Offline DavidLee

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2016, 07:29:31 PM »
The one on the bench I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I have another 809 that had some additional parts in the top unit, but can't recall exactly what. Will check in the morning.

Offline Amechanic

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2016, 07:42:04 PM »
Just wondering.. I know its not my problem, but I've only seen the first multiplayer ever work in this feature unit. Didn't matter what jackpot I set it at?
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Offline Jim

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2016, 08:14:32 AM »
Gary, I'm a little confused!   in the first post you have four pictures of the feature unit,  the third picture shows the odds unit step up coil and reset coil.  it is the correct coil shown B-25-925.  it shows the correct wire on it  61 wire ( red with a black tracer) . if you do the OLD Reno test for coils and it energizes the coil, I think the coil is good. could be something mechanical with the operation of the coil (dirty sleeve or gunk in and around the operating parts)  I believe your problem has to be with the  odds unit E.O.S. switch or the odds unit step up relay switch contacts.  the 30 wire(yellow) goes through the eos ,comes out as a 27 wire( blue/ orange) to the odds step up relay switch, out of that switch as a 61 wire, which goes to the coil. 

the only conflict I see in the schematics is the listing of the switch contacts, in one area it shows it as the odds unit step up relay switch, and on the schematic it calls that switch  the " coin relay  switch contacts"

Jim   



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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2016, 08:57:21 AM »
Gary, Re: extra relay switch. I've attached a few photos of the other 809. Probably it will be like throwing gas on a fire to put it out.
I think you've narrowed it down to the Odds Relay and the particular switch with the Orange Green wire. The first coin in works fine, as the reset relay does the work for the first time if the unit needs to be reset. Its when the odds unit needs to advance via the Odds Relay that is causing the problem.  I'm just going over this in my own thought process as I'm sure you are well aware of the sequence. You mentioned, with a little assistance the switch would work. I'm sure you have cleaned between the coil and the metal armature and the armature moves freely.
In the past on a few occasions I've add the slightest bit of lubricant between the metal portion and the white plastic to reduce any friction on the armature.

Not sure why this other 809 has the extra parts in it, but will run it on the bench to see what happens. My first guess would be higher payouts, even though the glass indicates $10. Could be wrong glass. May someone could enlighten me on this extra equipment.   

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2016, 09:18:22 PM »
I too have an 809 with the extra odds unit on the right-hand side of the feature unit. This was the subject of a topic recently and after receiving input from forum members, I deduced that it was for counting jackpots.

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2016, 09:34:55 AM »
Thanks for the post.. I just wanted to see the other 809 feature unit with the extra parts. I have not had a chance to get back to my machine since Monday night. I came down sick with a stomach issue. I ate something for lunch on Monday that I should not have and my gallbladder threw a fit. I've been down for almost 40 hour. Need to get the dang thing removed, and have been working on loosing weight.
I think my next move is to try a different coil in the Odds relay. Mines a G31-2000 but Davids is and G31-1800. Now I just need to locate one. I looked in my books, but nothing shows what coins go in what relays? Even the schematic just shows coil and not values? Does anyone know what's the right size?

Gary
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2016, 12:18:49 PM »
Hi kids. Been unable to log in, forgot my log in name but called Joey at NLG and he found the problem. Thx Joey.
So be aware that there are 2 kinds of coin in switches, and the NO and NC contacts are reversed. Unplug your door molexes and ohm out the switch. The 74 wire should be to the NC side.   I know you have checked and rechecked but if you have solder iron handy try swapping those 2 wires just for giggles.
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2016, 08:19:01 PM »
Found myself a 31G-1800 coin in my shed today. I installed it but it didn't totally fix this problem.. I did play up to 15 coins at one time without a miss count. I went back and check relay gaps, even cleaned the handle release contacts again, still not corrected? Can someone give me a flow chart showing the coin up sequence? I know the down stroke of the coin switch closes the coin switches on the reels, then the handle release coil fires, that sends power to the relays that cycles the coil to reset the step up unit back to coin 1.. The upstroke of the coin switch is what powers the coil on the odds relay stack. When the lower contact closes that sends power to the step up unit to advance for coin 2-5.. I'm just not sure of the sequence of the up stroke of the coin switch. I do know that it flows thru the handle contacts to the odds coil, but what other switches or contact does it go thru before it gets to the odds coil? I just feel I'm missing a set of contacts some where.. I tried to read the schematic in my book, but I get confused following the flow, Never been my strong suit... 
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2016, 09:42:44 PM »
Dear Amechanic thanks for asking, I will do a post on coin switch down and upstroke in detail shortly, but here it is in a nutshell:   1st coin in downstroke trips the coin relay and also fires the odds unit reset relay (and reset solenoid ONLY if it needs it).  1st coin upstroke then fires handle release coil allowing for a play. That's basically all that happens on 1 coin in. 
2nd coin downstroke turns on odds unit step up relay forcing it into a holding circuit (getting ready for upstroke).
2nd coin upstroke now fires the odds unit step up solenoid (which in turn kills the holding circuit to the odds step up relay.) Same exact sequence for 3,4,5 coins in.   
If you open up top unit you can see this happen. Thanks for prompting me to do a post about this. Glad there is interest!!
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2016, 09:50:35 PM »
Here's a quicker explanation -- 1 coin downstroke resets odds and trips coin relay. Upstroke releases handle. Just like the Terminator, that's all it does.
2 coin downstroke turns on odds relay, upstroke fires odds step up solenoid. You now have 2 coins registered. Same with 3,4,5,6 coins
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2016, 01:51:32 PM »
expanding on renos points  and yours all is ok after the first coin then to make it work you must be pulsing the 74 wire orange/green this should go through a closed switch on the odds relay we know then it steps up to accept 2 3 4 and 5th coin
so logically
poor switch closing on the odds relay check with ohm meter
check with ohm meter coin switch both n/o and n/c to common
as last resort check your 5ov on coin in switch after you have played 1 coin to see what you have you should see 0v across n/c and 50v across the n/o then flick down switch and hold down whilst across the common and n/c you should see 50v and then 0v across the n/o
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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2016, 01:57:03 PM »
Lmao

Put it on Craigslist

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Re: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2016, 02:23:21 PM »
Thanks guys.. I will look it over one more time tomorrow.. It's too nasty in my garage today, humidity and dew point are both in the 70's.. It's like a sauna in there, all I have is a high speed box fan.. Trust me I wanted to give up on this thing days ago, but it's a customers machine not mine.. This thing was a mess when it came in, no dash pot contacts, just wires soldered together, lower door switch for the over flow coin switch were cut and untaped causing a short on the metal over flow chute and getting shocked when I closed the door. After fixing that it continued to blow fuses when the door closed, found that I had a short in the coin in meter circuit.. Removed the meter and the fuse blowing stopped, or I thought.. It still blew the 50V fuse when the door closed, but only when you pushed the lower coin in switch and held it in.. I removed that switch and now it does not blow the 50V fuse.. I have used my VOM to check the 50V wire to cabinet for a short, nothing.. Did the same with the 6.3 V circuit it was checked for a dead short using my VOM, nothing..
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