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Author Topic: S+ Credit Issue  (Read 5102 times)

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Offline knagl

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2017, 12:33:09 AM »
This whole thing is really odd.  Are you able to take a short video showing what is happening, and upload that to YouTube?

You're saying that the coins inserted after the first 14 go to the hopper, but you don't get credit for them (ie. the machine "eats" the coins)?

There's certainly no setting that would affect that.

My gut feeling is that there's a bad component in your machine (either on the MPU board or on the coin-in optics board) that is causing the credits to stop registering once it warms up.  When you power cycle the machine it cools off again and then works normally.
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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 12:57:34 PM »
Thanks Kevin


Here's a video.

! No longer available



It doesn't matter if I win credits or not , cash them out or not, or what happens in the game play. After 14 coins in (1 or 2 at a time), it stops giving me credits for the coins as seen in the video. The coins go to the hopper but no credit awarded.

Any other ideas?  It is really confusing...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 10:38:04 PM by knagl »

Offline Ken

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2017, 01:05:16 PM »
It's haunted. I would try a ram clear and reset the machine parameters back up.

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2017, 02:40:49 PM »

I somewhat misunderstood your original post. After watching your video, your coins are going to game play not to "credit". You are inserting only 1 or 2 coins at a time. I was under the assumption that you was inserting 10-14 coins at once. The third  & subsequent coins should be returned as Jim mentions. The SP1137 I spoke of allows additional cons to be counted on the credit meter (coins to credit). With that out of the way, I would definitely start with the coin optic board. It's the most obvious but still could be something with the comparator itself or even the mpu as knagl pointed out. With zero credits on the machine, open the door, power up, let it warm up a bit. Push the test button on the optic board repeatedly & see if it give credits for every button push or if it quits after 14. These test mode credits will disappear when the door is closed.
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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2017, 05:28:27 PM »
Thanks to all that have tried to help so far...


Here is a little update:


1- Today I tried to switch coin size.  The coin channel in the optics is larger so I thought maybe it's had enough of the smaller coin and just gives up.  I put in a two $CDN Coin, filled the hooper with them, changed the coin in the comparator, and no change.  After 14 coins in, it just stops crediting coins.


2- I took RB's suggestion and let the machine warm up first.  It sat for 20 minutes powered on before I started to play.  Same thing... 14 coins in and then no credit afterwards.


3- I can test the test credit button on the coin optics for one or two credits and spin as many times as I want.  There is no limit.


4- When I took out the hopper, I ended up reseating every cable into the MPU.  I also air cleaned every connector, the board etc, and reconnected everything.  Same thing.


Here's a couple of questions if anybody knows the answers:


1- Is there something that the bill validate can have an effect on?  I don't use it.  Can I turn it off completely to eliminate it and how?


2- Is there some sort of tournament mode that the machine can go into?  Like you get 14 coin-in credits and have to accumulate as many credits as possible through game play and thus my machine is somehow programmed for this?  I believe the answer is no, just confirming cause I have never seen an option like that...


I do not think changing the SP chip will work.  Perhaps a RAM Clear would work but I have no idea how to do it (and I think you need a chip for that too?).  It may be an MPU issue or a coin optics issue as well.  I will try to replace the coin optics with another machine to start... If not that, I do not think I want to buy and replace the entire MPU, do i?


Terrible that this is happening on my first machine, but I guess it is a great intro into troubleshooting and learning how everything works...


Thanks to all for your help so far...




Offline Shaggy

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2017, 06:04:24 PM »
The tournament option is something I thought about too. I looked at the PSR for the SP 1019, it doesn't list a tournament setting for that game chip. There are dip switches on the MPU board. Generally the first 4 are switched on and the last 4 off. This allows programmable credit limits, reel sounds,  game speed and no progressive. I can't see that it could cause this problem, but this is a real stumper. I'm thinking a corrupted chip or an MPU problem. The B/V shouldn't cause a problem with coin acceptance as it is independent. If it doesn't work already, it likely hasn't been enabled and the machine will work without it. The Ram clear may fix the issue. And yes, you will need a clear chip. I'll post the procedure for using the clear (IVC) 123 chip. Let's do that as a last resort, although it's beginning to look like an option. This is a way to learn about that new machine. Stick with it, you'll get it. Let's see if there are some more ideas before clearing.

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Offline Ken

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2017, 08:07:57 PM »
BV has nothing to do with this. If the unit is a DBV model there is a white connector on the left side .. disconnect it and that will eliminate the power to it. If you do a ram clear there wont be a com signal any longer with the BV -- but power to it will make it initialize. If it is a WBA unit .. two wire connector in the back of the BV frame is the power. Behind silver box on left side of BV. If you want the com signal back then you also need a set chip for that.

No tournament feature with your chips as you thought.

Changing the SP is unlikely to make any changes.

It's haunted .. I would do a ram clear then go from there. Someone on here will send you a message that will sell you a chip .. maybe instructions too .. but people here will help.

Could be a MPU issue.

Unlikely the coin in optics are causing this.

EDIT -- I know Shaggy just overlooked this since he is usually on top of this stuff ... your board won't have dip switches since it is a 16mHz board.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 08:48:03 PM by Ken »

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2017, 08:41:02 PM »

I just looked up the SP1019 PSR. I didn't realize we were dealing with a 16mhz mpu either. Here is a couple links explaining clear chip procedure. You will not need a set chip if you do not wish to enable the BV. I can send you a clear chip. PM me if interested.


http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=16134.msg86119#msg86119


http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=15747.msg84153#msg84153
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 09:11:01 PM by RB »
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Offline knagl

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2017, 10:40:09 PM »
Thanks for the video.

That is positively bizarre, especially with it being repeatable.

I concur with the others -- try doing a RAM clear with a clear chip -- not much to lose at this point, and I'm otherwise out of ideas.
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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2017, 06:47:29 AM »

EDIT -- I know Shaggy just overlooked this since he is usually on top of this stuff ... your board won't have dip switches since it is a 16mHz board.

Yep I dropped the ball there. Didn't even catch it. Thanks, Ken.
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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2017, 07:41:07 AM »
I missed the part where it was determined the mpu is a 16mhz board instead of a 10mhz, how do we know that without a photo of the mpu?

Also, aren't there sometimes weird problems that occur when SP or SS chips made for 10mhz bards are used in 16mhz boards, or vice-versa?

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2017, 08:07:20 AM »
Well I goofed up twice. The SP chip list in the S+ forum lists it as a 16 Mhz and the PSR also lists it right in  the first few lines. I was so wrapped up looking for a tournament option, I just went right by it. I've never swapped the 10s and 16s but I've always heard it won't work. Now there was no picture or anything so we're all going on the SP chip. Now if it is a 10 Mhz board..............like I said I've never done it so I don't know. He can check and see real quick if it has the volume knob or not. I've just always heard it won't work.

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2017, 08:32:03 AM »
Another cue that it is a 16 board .. listen to the reel sounds in the posted video .. won't hear those sounds on a 10

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2017, 08:37:35 AM »
Another cue that it is a 16 board .. listen to the reel sounds in the posted video .. won't hear those sounds on a 10

Does the 16mhz board has sound capability that the 10mhz board doesn't have? Can the Balloon Bars game (SS chip) be used on a 10hmz board with the proper 10mhz SP chip? This is just for my education, probably not related to the problem on this machine.

(when I watched his video earlier I had the sound turned off, cat was sleeping by the computer)  :garfield:
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Offline Ken

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2017, 08:58:40 AM »
Another cue that it is a 16 board .. listen to the reel sounds in the posted video .. won't hear those sounds on a 10

Does the 16mhz board has sound capability that the 10mhz board doesn't have? Can the Balloon Bars game (SS chip) be used on a 10hmz board with the proper 10mhz SP chip? This is just for my education, probably not related to the problem on this machine.

(when I watched his video earlier I had the sound turned off, cat was sleeping by the computer)  :garfield:

BTW -- his machine boots and play so it's not an issue with the chips on the board.

Hopefully this helps.

The 16 board I believe was designed for the S+ barcrest machines.

It has it's own dedicated sounds. The sound volume adjustment is done in the programming (3-x). Use the buttons to adjust the volume up and down. Usually 3-3 is good for most people.

I think you are headed in the right direction with your thoughts. A 10 board needs a SP that matches the board and game type and likewise for the 16 board. On a 10 board, the SP for a Double Diamond won't work with a Haywire game which needs a different SP type. The 16 board is the same. Have to have the matching SP to the game.  Either board can use the same SS chips to play the same game. I hope this is understandable.

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2017, 09:03:14 AM »
..... I think you are headed in the right direction with your thoughts. A 10 board needs a SP that matches the board and game type and likewise for the 16 board. On a 10 board, the SP for a Double Diamond won't work with a Haywire game which needs a different SP type. The 16 board is the same. Have to have the matching SP to the game.  Either board can use the same SS chips to play the same game. I hope this is understandable.

It is, thanks for explanation! If someone takes SP and SS chips from a working 10mhz board and installs them into a 16mhz board   and installs that 16mhz board into the machine what happens when they try to run the game? When the SP chip is mis-matched with the mpu board then the machine won't boot? (no weird problems, it just won't start up?)
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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2017, 09:20:49 AM »
Only if the memory was like getting back on a bike and being able to ride again. Probably been at least 10 years since I have done anything with a 16 board. I don't remember the exact symptoms. The machine will somehow let you know it doesn't like it and if it does try to play -- it's gonna be oh no F'n way am I going to like this -- you will have to get the right SP chip.

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2017, 09:48:36 AM »
one interesting item you posted in reply#24,  you can use the test button on the optic board and it works as many times ---no limit.   I would like you to wait until the machine is no longer accepting coins, no preform the coin optic test, 10_1. 11_1 and 12_1.  use a Popsicle stick or something to insert into the black encoder and block each optic and observe the display,  10_1 should change to a 10_0 when the stick is blocking one of the three optics,  11_1 will change to 11_0 with the stick and when the button is pressed, 12_1 should change to 12_0 with the stick, if 10_1 never changes,  remove Q-2 on the optic board, this will take a counter out of the circuit and remove a ground from Q-2 WHICH IS SHORTING OUT THE OPTIC signal.  since the button works with no limit, that tells me the rest of the machine is working as it should,  since the coins are being accepted and sent to the hopper tells me the cc- is doing what it should be doing, the optics are the only thing suspect at this time. 

I have tested optics available if you need them. also have any type encoder you might need.

hope this helps

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2017, 11:12:54 AM »
Thanks to everyone for input... I have RAM Clear chips coming (just had to pay a pal for shipping) and will try them on the weekend (I should get them on Friday).  I will let everyone know if that does it...

If it doesn't, I am swapping the MPU with another 16Mhz board.

Then, I'm out of ideas...

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Re: S+ Credit Issue
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 11:30:42 PM »
It is, thanks for explanation! If someone takes SP and SS chips from a working 10mhz board and installs them into a 16mhz board   and installs that 16mhz board into the machine what happens when they try to run the game? When the SP chip is mis-matched with the mpu board then the machine won't boot? (no weird problems, it just won't start up?)

Only if the memory was like getting back on a bike and being able to ride again. Probably been at least 10 years since I have done anything with a 16 board. I don't remember the exact symptoms. The machine will somehow let you know it doesn't like it and if it does try to play -- it's gonna be oh no F'n way am I going to like this -- you will have to get the right SP chip.

The reels get all funky and spin/vibrate very strangely.  You'd know if you had the wrong chips in.
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