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Author Topic: Need some guidance on testing S+  (Read 4826 times)

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Offline markb7605

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 11:48:58 AM »
ok to far im 45 miles east of dallas
Thank You
  Mark

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 06:15:37 AM »
That battery looks rough. Has it been replaced?

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 10:34:25 AM »
Battery was replaced when the PO bought it. It did read 3.9v at the pads. Last night, just because I believe I’m troubleshooting an mpu issue, I did resolder it. All they had to do is pull the old one off, bend the tabs and flow it on properly. I figure that if it was a battery/ram corruption issue, I should have a 12 error. But alas no love.


I have replacement game and reel chips on the way, as well as another mpu. I’ll begin again when those come in.

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 11:09:55 AM »
I think you're on the right track, let us know when you try the replacement mpu. Do you plan to reuse the damaged chip or wait for the replacement chips to arrive? If all that fixes the machine you can then test the old mpu with the new chips to see if it is good or bad.
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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2018, 11:34:56 AM »
I’m planning on testing with all the replacement parts first, since the game and reel chips are reflashed. I’ll probably just send the old board to Jim @ Midwest to test, if the new parts pan out and fix the machine. There’s definitely something funky on this one with voltage control. Jim PM’d me a test with the top 2 fuses and checking reel tension. The mpu is getting voltage to it, but the output on the top fuse seems to be suspect. Removing the top fuse, power on, the reels still have some power applied but the resistance is lower than with the top fuse in. Removing the middle fuse makes the reels go completely limp. I was told that removing either of these should make the reels go completely limp and they’re not doing that. I don’t have a full schematic so I am unsure if these are discrete circuits to the stepper motors in the reels, and getting backfed power, or just low voltage somewhere. I don’t have another machine to test the test.


I’m also getting random led digits coming up in the first display toward the hinge when powering down. That just looks to me like a capacitor discharging on the display and is probably nothing. Sometimes a 1, sometimes a 3, sometimes a 6. I know the panel is getting power at least.

Offline Jim

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2018, 02:48:28 PM »
the top fuse reaction  may not be as I described in relation the the reels, I was just looking for some change in the machine by undoing the fuses, the reason was to determine if the fuse caps were good.  they have been know to be defective even though the actual fuse was good.

by undoing each fuse, you should see or hear some noticeable difference, you said you heard popping and noises in the speaker, second fuse the reels went limp, and the bottom fuse should remove power completely.  so by doing this, if you didn't own a meter,you could determine that the fuses were good and in fact connected to something making a change.  seeing the denomination lamp on tells you the connector for the mother power is good for that voltage, if the display is on, it usually means the board is getting power and the +vb voltage is good.  I wanted you to measure the +vb voltage across the cap on the display board right in the area of the plug for the displays, if it is present, then your mpu board or some connection is not good.

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2018, 10:02:50 AM »
Update and info. I got it working but testing is incomplete. Here’s what happened.
My new mpu came in, and of course it was the wrong one. I got a 16mhz instead of a 10. Doh! But I’m going to keep it and convert over to a 10. I got most of the parts to do the conversion but this is on the back burner for now. I’ll explain.
Saturday, I bought another s+ with a 12 error on it. The machine is pretty rough but I couldn’t pass up the deal. I put a new battery in it, did a ram clear to get it going, and put it in my black tie machine, and it worked. Then the issue was that it had double diamond chips in it. I got new fresh flashed black tie chips, put them in, and it got weird on me. No errors but the bottom candle lamp would blink rapidly and that’s all, no errors. Thinking the new chips were bad, I pulled them and put the old ones in. Now I got the same issue as the original issue. No boot up reel spin, no errors, no candle. I put the new sp chip in, with the old ss chip. Got  a 61 loop. I ran another clear, and bingo. The machine is up and running. I’m now not convinced there’s anything wrong with the original board. Next, I’ll put the double diamond chips in the old board and see if it plays.

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2018, 10:10:41 AM »
One of two things is going on with that flashing candle......
Which bulb by the way - there are two.

1. There is a call attendant button. Try pressing that ?
2. Does it go away after the first game played ?
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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2018, 10:22:44 AM »
When I was testing it. The buttons did nothing. It’s the attendant light that was blinking on the candle (bottom one) and the change light would not light when that button was pressed. The machine would not go into a ready state. No reel movement, would not light up any of the led readouts, would not accept a coin. Reset button wouldn’t produce any result.

Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2018, 10:38:47 AM »
Update and info. I got it working but testing is incomplete. Here’s what happened.
My new mpu came in, and of course it was the wrong one. I got a 16mhz instead of a 10. Doh! But I’m going to keep it and convert over to a 10.

Why not leave the new mpu as 16mhz, you can order a pair of game and reel chips for it?
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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2018, 10:54:36 AM »
Of if your good enough to do board level changes ... then you likely have an Eprom burner laying around and can burn your own 16mhz compatible version ......
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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2018, 12:12:31 PM »
I could probably just leave it at this point. Only reason I didn’t send it back is that it looks brand new, never used. The battery on it was never changed and no screw marks on it.


I haven’t had my eprom writer or uv eraser since way back when and I was tuning gm TPI cars. I’m pretty sure I tossed it and would need a new usb model. I don’t have anything with a serial port on it, and the usb-rs232 converter drivers seem to rarely work properly.


If there is a repo somewhere that has all the roms, I’d be really tempted.

Offline rokgpsman

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2018, 01:11:07 PM »
The 2 chips you'd need for the 16mhz mpu (GAME and REEL chips, aka SP and SS chips) are low enough in cost I wouldn't go to the trouble of modding the 16mhz mpu, unless you can't get a 16mhz version of the chip you need. The Game chip (also known as the SP chip) can be any of several, you don't have to use an SP1048, so you shouldn't have any trouble finding a compatible 16mhz SP chip. When selecting a different SP chip you want to pick one that is compatible with the mpu board (10mhz vs 16 mhz) and also pick one that is the same game "Type" as the SS chip will be. Double Black Tie is a Type 0 game.

Or you could leave the working 10mhz mpu from the second S+ machine in this Dbl Black Tie machine. Then work on getting the 16mhz board to work in the second machine with whatever Game and Reel chips are needed.

Also, although the SP1048 chip from your original 10mhz mpu board is a 10mhz chip the SS chip may work ok in the 16mhz mpu you bought. In that case you'd just need an SP chip compatible with the 16mhz variety of mpu.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 01:39:18 PM by rokgpsman »
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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2018, 01:35:05 PM »
I wanted to expand on something I said earlier in this discussion about the SP chip. I said that if you get another SP chip you'd want to get one that uses ID-023 since that is what the SP1048 uses, so we know your bill validator in that Dbl Black Tie machine uses ID-023 comm protocol.

What I want to add is that if your bill validator is a DBV-200 model it has a dipswitch that will let you select whether the DBV-200 uses ID-022 or ID-023, your choice. And all SP chips are either ID-022 or ID-023. So you could put any SP chip in the machine (as long as it is compatible with the variety of mpu, 10mhz vs 16mhz) and setup the DBV-200 to work with the SP chip.



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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2018, 03:28:45 PM »
Your reel chip should work if it is fast enough, you would only need a new game chip for the 16mhz board.

Key difference between the two boards is that the 16mhz does not have a manual volume control like the 10mhz board and the 16hz game chip has a feature to adjust the volume so you can't just reburn the game binary onto a faster chip.

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2018, 04:14:29 PM »
This compatibility discussion is interesting. Let’s for a second think about this. Are there games that will only run on a 16mhz board? I have to imagine that there are, or why else change it? I would think that other than supporting a faster cpu, the only difference in chips would be the game settings for volume control. If that’s the only difference, it would be pretty easy to find the hex block containing the sound chip and volume jump points. Then you really could just inject that into the 10mhz game code. Secondly, in the conversion docs I found, there is no cpu change, just the oscillator so I guess you’re just underclocking at that point. Is that even necessary? Why couldn’t a hybrid board work? Sound chip, and volume control on the faster board, using the sound code from the 10mhz game chip. The only thing I see that isn’t going to work besides sound, is that  the 8 position dip switch isn’t there either. Is the payout jumper settings part of the game or reel routine? It would be kinda cool to do a dump on same chips and do a compare to find the setting addresses.

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2018, 04:26:29 PM »
I forgot to mention. This particular machine doesn’t have a BV in it currently. I can mess with this one and not worry about that for a while. I have another s+ that I borrowed the mpu from that has a BV, but it’s got a lot of rust and mouse mess that needs to be attended to before I work on that one.

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2018, 11:28:39 PM »
Just wanted to pop in and thank you all again for the info. I’m going to leave this machine as-is but I did pick up a round top double diamond round top to mess with, so that has turned into my project machine. It has some rust issues and was a mouse house for a bit, but it does fire up. Also picked up an eprom burner so I’ll look into the issues with my old ss chip and revive that. Does anyone want to share a repo for ss/sp roms? Pm me please if you do.


Also working on a s2000 that I picked up. I’m out of room with 4 machines!!

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Re: Need some guidance on testing S+
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2018, 08:43:21 AM »
The theme's are controlled by the Reel Chip. If its burnt onto a fast enough Eprom all themes are compaitable - no sound or other bits to bang.

Themes are broken into different "types" the type determines the feature set needed to support it. For instance Double Diamond Deluxe, Balloon Bars, Slam Dunk are nudge games. When a particular symbol hits the reel will move up or down. Double Diamond, Wild Cherry, Cats & Dogs, are type 0 games with no special features, Haywire, Spin to you win are another feature set.

The Game Chip is the one that supports the TYPE. This is also different between the 10mhz and the 16mhz games as the 10mhz doesn't have the sound control that the 16mhz chip does.
I think it would be easier to take the 16mhz chip and make it work on a 10mhz board than the other way around by editing the binary.  It would be a lot easier if someone would just give us the source code and a good complier - but I doubt that will ever happen.
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