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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: Samman on March 27, 2019, 07:13:22 PM
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Machine pays PERFECT with 1 or 2 coins played. On 3rd quarter, all payouts are DOUBLED. I have checked top multipliers and they seem clean and making contact. Any help appreciated.
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Hmmm, no replies as of yet. It appears that my issue may have stumped the forum members. By the way, it is an 809-ZT machine.
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Sam:
Do you have a set of test cables that you can put your multiplier unit on a bench and watch it operate in real time? I had the exact same problem with my 809 several years ago. In order to see the problem I remember using the cables that I bought from a member of NLG and wondering how I could have possibly fixed the game without them.
It has been about 5 years since I had this problem and honestly I DO NOT recall what the exact issue was. I DO recall that it was obvious what was wrong once the multiplier was on a stool that I use for testing.
Sorry I cant be of more help. The mind ain't what it used to be.
Ra
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there is an odds disc in feature unit - most likely sticking - not resetting
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Yes, the odds disc! IF you have the cables play 2 coins, set up a pay and see what happens. Then play 3 set up the same pay and see what happens. I think a screw driver and perhaps a little light oil did the trip for me.
Ra
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I took apart odds 3x unit on top. Properly greased and checked all contacts. Still have issue. Sad. I guess I'll have to pay tech to look at it.
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Sam
It could be a tooth not catching. Do you have the extension cables? They are worth their weight in gold in matters such as you are faced with.
Ra
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So, the extension cables are basically two insulated wires with alligator clips at each end? I need explicit instructions, as I'm not a tech. With the unit powered on and the top unit removed, I gather I'm able to power cycle the top unit with the aid of the extension cables and visually observe the actions of the upper unit. Where do I connect the wires? Not sure if this is something I could do without the expertise that someone like you has.
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thought i replied regarding the 3 multiplier being lubed and checked - not the stepup unit - attached is picture of a 809 feature - the stepup on the right side - handles the lights and how many coins played so that the correct mulipler unit is activated.
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Sam:
i am sorry that a I was not more specific. The extension cables are 24 or 30 individual wires at least 6' long with the appropriate beau plugs on the end. You remover your troubled head unit and set it on a bench or stool next to you game. Then you plug the appropriate end of the extension cable into the head unit and the other end into the beau plugs in you game cabinet. Now you can set up a 3 coin hit and watch what happens, or does not happen in real time.
I had a similar problem to yours on an 809 about 5 years back. It drove me crazy until I had the head unit out. Then what the issue was became perfectly clear.
I bought my cables form a guy on NLG named Jim. He was a gentleman and I bought his deluxe set with ALL of the cables needed for ANY Bally EM. He even made a special Molex extension for my Bally Arrowline since the hopper has an addition set of wires right from the factory.
I will try to post a picture of the cables if possible. MONEY WELL SPENT if you are going to keep these old machines happy.
My opinion is free and worth every penny :rotfl:
Ra
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thought i replied regarding the 3 multiplier being lubed and checked - not the stepup unit - attached is picture of a 809 feature - the stepup on the right side - handles the lights and how many coins played so that the correct mulipler unit is activated.
Yes, checked the step up unit on right and cleaned and oiled. But I also took apart the white odds unit (on left of picture with numbers on wheel) as well. Problem now worse. Getting 3 to 4 times normal 3 coin payout.
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Sam:
i am sorry that a I was not more specific. The extension cables are 24 or 30 individual wires at least 6' long with the appropriate beau plugs on the end. You remover your troubled head unit and set it on a bench or stool next to you game. Then you plug the appropriate end of the extension cable into the head unit and the other end into the beau plugs in you game cabinet. Now you can set up a 3 coin hit and watch what happens, or does not happen in real time.
I had a similar problem to yours on an 809 about 5 years back. It drove me crazy until I had the head unit out. Then what the issue was became perfectly clear.
I bought my cables form a guy on NLG named Jim. He was a gentleman and I bought his deluxe set with ALL of the cables needed for ANY Bally EM. He even made a special Molex extension for my Bally Arrowline since the hopper has an addition set of wires right from the factory.
I will try to post a picture of the cables if possible. MONEY WELL SPENT if you are going to keep these old machines happy.
My opinion is free and worth every penny :rotfl:
Ra
I’m sure the extension cable you describe is worth it. Let me run right down to the slot machine store and get it. Lol. Obviously, this is something I cannot make up or buy. I do appreciate your help though.
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The plugs to build the extension can be bought at K-Lar I believe. They did have both the 18 and 24 pin plugs, not sure if they have any of the 30’s.
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The plugs to build the extension can be bought at K-Lar I believe. They did have both the 18 and 24 pin plugs, not sure if they have any of the 30’s.
Outstanding! Now what is K-Lar ? Can you provide a link? I’m not getting any hits back from Google.
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They are located under Sponsors on the Home page. You need to go to the parts, Bally Electromechanical. Here’s the link to K-Lar..
https://www.slotmachinerepair.com (https://www.slotmachinerepair.com)
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Sounds to me like your 3X multiplier unit might be defective.
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They are located under Sponcers on the Home page. You need to go to the parts, Bally Electromechanical. Here’s the link to K-Lar..
https://www.slotmachinerepair.com (https://www.slotmachinerepair.com)
Thank you. I called and left a message with them.
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Sounds to me like your 3X multiplier unit might be defective.
Any idea on cost to replace one?
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They are located under Sponcers on the Home page. You need to go to the parts, Bally Electromechanical. Here’s the link to K-Lar..
https://www.slotmachinerepair.com (https://www.slotmachinerepair.com)
Thank you. I called and left a message with them.
You can order right off that web page.
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They are located under Sponcers on the Home page. You need to go to the parts, Bally Electromechanical. Here’s the link to K-Lar..
https://www.slotmachinerepair.com (https://www.slotmachinerepair.com)
Thank you. I called and left a message with them.
You can order right off that web page.
Site works EXCEPT for the Bally parts section. Anyway, I'll run this issue by Alan and see what his thoughts are. Maybe best to go with a new 3x multiplier instead of buying electrical plugs and then having to wire them up, only to find that the issue is a bad 3x multiplier.
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I don’t know if he has just one of the multipliers. They did have whole assemblies for sale at one time, but not sure if they still do or not? But remember that not every 809 top assembly will be a plug and play. They are not alway Wired the same at the beau plugs.
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Sam:
i am sorry that a I was not more specific. The extension cables are 24 or 30 individual wires at least 6' long with the appropriate beau plugs on the end. You remover your troubled head unit and set it on a bench or stool next to you game. Then you plug the appropriate end of the extension cable into the head unit and the other end into the beau plugs in you game cabinet. Now you can set up a 3 coin hit and watch what happens, or does not happen in real time.
I had a similar problem to yours on an 809 about 5 years back. It drove me crazy until I had the head unit out. Then what the issue was became perfectly clear.
I bought my cables form a guy on NLG named Jim. He was a gentleman and I bought his deluxe set with ALL of the cables needed for ANY Bally EM. He even made a special Molex extension for my Bally Arrowline since the hopper has an addition set of wires right from the factory.
I will try to post a picture of the cables if possible. MONEY WELL SPENT if you are going to keep these old machines happy.
My opinion is free and worth every penny :rotfl:
Ra
Ok. I made my own extension cable with two beau plugs that I got from Alan at K Lar. That was a lot of soldering! Put top unit on table and observed. First off the multiplier I thought was the 3x was actually the 2x. When the 3x was activated, it sparked and smoked a little. I took out that multiplier, removed the white plastic wheel and cleaned and gently oiled the board and contacts. Put back in properly and observed again. Now there's no multiplying and there's greater sparking and smoke. Go figure. Any thoughts from anyone. Wheel turning correctly but sparks flying from board. That can't be good.
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Okay, now the board is making better contact, thus making more of an electrical arc.
Coils will give off smoke. Check the coil ID wrapper for indication of excessive heat, compare with others.
Could be a relay stuck on or contacts to close that should be open.
Look closely to all wire connected to that Reel, possible solder or loose wire making contact where it shouldn't.
Also check the reels next to it for any abnormalities as I believe they are linked together.
Then trace wires back to the next termination point. If they come to an relay with contacts try this. Block the contacts with paper insulator.
Set up the problem and see what happens. If its okay remove insulators one at a time.
TEST CABLES, THE ONLY WAY TO FLY.
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Okay, now the board is making better contact, thus making more of an electrical arc.
Coils will give off smoke. Check the coil ID wrapper for indication of excessive heat, compare with others.
Could be a relay stuck on or contacts to close that should be open.
Look closely to all wire connected to that Reel, possible solder or loose wire making contact where it shouldn't.
Also check the reels next to it for any abnormalities as I believe they are linked together.
Then trace wires back to the next termination point. If they come to an relay with contacts try this. Block the contacts with paper insulator.
Set up the problem and see what happens. If its okay remove insulators one at a time.
TEST CABLES, THE ONLY WAY TO FLY.
Well, I'm getting there. Tested again and this time no smoke or major sparks. Must have been the fresh oil film on the board. Now on third coin it just pays as a single coin in. Let me slap my head. First it's way overpaying on third coin, and now I can't get close to the correct amount. Someone up there doesn't like me. 3x wheel moves freely. I therefore took the upper unit back to my workbench, removed the 3x odds unit. Made sure contacts are clean and bent contacts slightly to ensure good contact with board. Sprayed electrical contact cleaner on board and other switches to ensure all are clean. I will let dry and try again tomorrow. Checked all wires and solder joints and all seem tight. I WONT be checking those while the unit is plugged in. That's all I need to light up like a Christmas tree. Remember, I'm new at this boys. My wife and I bought this machine for my aunt, who now lives with us. She used to like to go to the casinos. She's turning 102 this July, but can still pull that handle from her wheelchair. Lol. She always played the maximum on slots when she was younger, so I can't get her to put in only 1 or 2 quarters. She has to play all 3. Hopefully, I can get this baby back up and running for her soon.
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Sounds like your aunt already hit the big one, hope to make to 100 myself.
Some electrical cleaners leave a slight film and some types will melt plastic parts.
Just a word of caution.
A real fine scotch type pad cleans contact boards without any residue.
If the third coin only pays like 1 coin, sounds like it’s not getting a signal to multiple.
At least the fireworks are over for now!
Please post a photo of the the front of the machine.
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there is a wiper board and wiper on the multiplier unit - there are 2 wipers on a plastic "cam" and then there is the wiper board itself - the wiper boards can get burn marks on them and will not register - if you use a continuity tester on the 3rd unit - there is a 'f' contact and then series of contacts linked together - i believe there is red/green/ wire - if you check continuity - just activate the plunger on the coil and see if you get a signal every 3rd time - if not then the circuit is not working. you cannot just replace a unit as each wiper board is wired differently and the cam is different as well.
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Are the wiper boards all the same on the multipliers?? I know I have some NOS boards here some where that I picked up a few years back.
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there are 2 different - they are wired differently and there are 2 different plastic cams with wiper
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there are 2 different - they are wired differently and there are 2 different plastic cams with wiper
Yes, that is true. The boards are of different sizes and the two plastic notched wheels under the large wheel are different sizes as well. Sooooo, if you can't just replace the boards, what does one do to fix them? Do I need to buy another complete 3x multiplier for an 809? Here are three pictures of my 809 ZT. I will post pictures of the upper odds unit when I get home later.
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Your cabinet tag may say it’s a 809, but that’s been rebuilt as a 831. It was a very common practice to convert this size cabinet into a different game. The 809 is a single line 5 coin machine, and a 831 is a single line game that can play 1 to 3 coins.
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Your cabinet tag may say it’s a 809, but that’s been rebuilt as a 831. It was a very common practice to convert this size cabinet into a different game. The 809 is a single line 5 coin machine, and a 831 is a single line game that can play 1 to 3 coins.
That's good to know. Thank you!
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Some additional photos of the odds unit. The issue is with the odds unit without numbers. As stated, it now only pays 1x instead of multiplying to 3x. Crazy.
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831 is a 3 LINE - this machine is a 1090 format machine - 1 to 3 coin
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831 is a 3 LINE - this machine is a 1090 format machine - 1 to 3 coin
You are correct. It’s a 1090 format in a smaller cabinet. My bad for missing the L-R and R-L pays and the fact that this is a single line and not a 3 line game. :hail:
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did you try using a multimeter attached to the "F" and to one of the other wired positions and do a continuity check while moving the plunger on the coil? you should get a beeb every third time!! if not then the multipler is not working/ not correct (did machine ever pay correctly). since this is a 3 coin and most players would play the 3rd coin - this unit would get a lot of action vs number 2. Also if you look at number 2 wiring you will see the wires are every other position - the 3rd would be every 3rd
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Give the odds step up unit a good cleaning.
The contact rivets appear to be a little dirty.
Best bet is to clean all contact points both sides.
On the rivets an oil base lubricant cleans the best.
Then a fine scotch pad will make them like new.
Also notice a Orange wire that appeared very close to the reel coil bracket.
Insulator could of slid down the wire.
Not to much can go wrong with those Bally score reels.
Have a Bally pinball machine from 1975 with the exact score reel and coil.
It’s seen a lot of action and still preforms perfectly.
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Give the odds step up unit a good cleaning.
The contact rivets appear to be a little dirty.
Best bet is to clean all contact points both sides.
On the rivets an oil base lubricant cleans the best.
Then a fine scotch pad will make them like new.
Also notice a Orange wire that appeared very close to the reel coil bracket.
Insulator could of slid down the wire.
Not to much can go wrong with those Bally score reels.
Have a Bally pinball machine from 1975 with the exact score reel and coil.
It’s seen a lot of action and still preforms perfectly.
Cleaned all contacts as you indicated. Don't let pic fool you, that area was in dark spot on pic. Re-cleaned odds unit. STILL now only paying 1x instead of 3x. Can't figure how it went from overpaying to underpaying. Damn frustrating.
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Sometimes it’s hard to see in photos in shadow.
Is the step up stepping?
Check out a video I posted on YouTube a while back.
This will give you something to compare.
Notice the middle relay in the for ground activating with the step unit.
Google or YouTube. Bally 809 step up, the video is 1:16 long.
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Sometimes it’s hard to see in photos in shadow.
Is the step up stepping?
Check out a video I posted on YouTube a while back.
This will give you something to compare.
Notice the middle relay in the for ground activating with the step unit.
Google or YouTube. Bally 809 step up, the video is 1:16 long.
Nice video. Yes, my step up unit is stepping fine. Works perfect with one or two quarters. However, I do notice that both odds unit wheels turn for 2x. On 3x, only that wheel turns. More sparks near center of 3x wheel near board. I'm trying to get the tech where I bought this to come over and observe.
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Tech came over today. He went through top section. All wires chrcked. All switches checked and cleaned. Proper spacing checked between switch points. May be issue with 3x odds unit circuit board as indicated by sparks and smoke near wiper contacts after each 3x activation. He spent over two hours troubleshooting. He unsoldered 3x unit and will replace circuit board as he indicated in no way should that amount of spark and smoke be present.
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Possibly picking up voltage from another source. I.e. contacts that are suppose to be open are closed or a wire is crossed with another. Just a thought.
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Did you smell smoke before you built the extention cables? It would take only one wire crossed to cause a problem. If you didn’t notice there are numbers on each the male and female plugs to indicate the proper mated connection. I’m not saying you did anything wrong, just asking a question.
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Did you smell smoke before you built the extention cables? It would take only one wire crossed to cause a problem. If you didn’t notice there are numbers on each the male and female plugs to indicate the proper mated connection. I’m not saying you did anything wrong, just asking a question.
I checked carefully. I don’t think it would work perfectly with one and two coins if a wire were crossed. Advances properly to 3x wheel as well. All lights work properly on front to correspond with coin in. Plus, the payout issue was the same with the unit in the machine without the extension cable in play. Smoke was minimal, but noticeable with the unit out. Don’t think it would have been detected with unit in machine. Wasn’t THAT much smoke.
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Just something I’ve been wondering.. Anytime I’ve ever seen a EM show smoke, was a burnt coil or over heated , melting wiring. I guess it could happen to a wiper board if it had a bad connection, or one failing to advance and getting hot.
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Next time you run the machine, compare the heat on the coils that operate the odds count up reels.
Do this carefully with a finger. Probably just need too set up a payout once or twice on 2 coins and then 3 coins.
Try manually advancing the 3 coin odds reel with the machine set in different configurations.
I.E. reels set up for a payout, no payout, small payout etc.
Two ways to set up a payout, 1 hold the clock fan and play the machine. The reels will spin free allowing you to set up a payout, hold the reels then release the clock.
Or play the machine, after the reels stop use a 1/4 dowel rod to push the stop arms back out of the slot.
Move the reel to a payout symbol release the stop arm.
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Update: My tech has found burn marks and areas of separation on the circuit board, which may be the cause of my issues. I have contacted Alan at K-Lar slot machines in the hopes that he can come across a new or used board. The serial number on the 3x Multiplier board I need is M.645.129. If anyone has one or knows where I can find one, please let me know. Thank you.
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Those gaps can be bridge with solder or a conductive type glue.
This would be a temporary fix, but could last a long time.
Check eBay for Bally pinball score reels, photo is one example.
Bought 3 of these somewhere around $20.00 including shipping.
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Update: My tech has found burn marks and areas of separation on the circuit board, which may be the cause of my issues. I have contacted Alan at K-Lar slot machines in the hopes that he can come across a new or used board. The serial number on the 3x Multiplier board I need is M.645.129. If anyone has one or knows where I can find one, please let me know. Thank you.
Let me know if Alan wasn’t able to help yet. I thought that maybe I had new Odds boards, but the two I have are the ones that end in 120.. I did find what looks like a good used odds assembly, see pics.
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Gary,
The bottom photo looks like the one he needs.
M-645-129
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Gary,
The bottom photo looks like the one he needs.
M-645-129
Both pics are of the same odds unit. Just slightly different angle for the parts number.
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The serial number on the 3x Multiplier board I need is M.645.129.
Quote from post 45.
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That is the number on the wiper board...
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BINGO!!!!
How much?? That's the one I need. Ill take the whole odds unit
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That is the number on the wiper board...
Check your private message. I corrected my email. Take out the “is†in front of it. I meant to type my email is ..... and the is got connected.
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Hello all. Problem solved! A big thank you goes out to Amechanic for selling me the 3x multiplier board. That was the problem, and all is working fine now on 3rd quarter selection. Thank you to all that responded. I'm learning so much from this forum. Now I have extension cables that I made for future troubleshooting.
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Glad I was able to help yea out.
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I am so glad that things worked out for you. NLG, and especially the men and women of the EM forum are the best!
Ra