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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: filounet on April 10, 2023, 11:50:35 PM
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Hello,
I have just bought a Bally slot of a size of a 742 but alas it does not have the glass, nor the bands on any of the 3 reels nor the identification plate.
There is no information inside the machine but just the metal rollers which are identified as B201, B202, B203.
Is it possible to know what are the models of bands but also the designs on the bands as well as the gains?
There may be a table or a file with its information for electromechanical as I have already seen for e-series machines
Thank you for your help :thank_you:
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A couple of photos might help identify the machine.
See attachment with related numbers containing basic machine information.
Hopefully it will load in the horizontal direction.
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the number stamped into the reel index disc are sometimes the number corresponding to the engineering drawing, other times it was game ID code. The game ID codes are not in the spreadsheet I made that David posted, but you can find them in documents in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_info/
I'm guessing your codes are B-2Q-[1-3]. They often left out the dashes.
if so, that'd make your game a 742A-114 - Bally "two for the money". Unfortunately, I don't have a schematic or a reel wiper wiring diagram for that game and don't know what a "two for the money" is. The only other one I have in the listing is a 742A-14A, tho my listing is not complete, so more may have been produced with model numbers higher than 742A-450
info I do have:
- reel tapes are m-220-[201-203]
- index discs are p-484-[314-316]
- payout counter - w-923-11
since the files are too big to post here, I put them in in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/742A-114/
without the reel wiper diagram or schematic, you'd need to reverse engineer the reels to figure out what made "two for the money" unique. Often on the 742A machines high resolution pictures of the reel wipers and the wiring on the reel wiper boards is good enough to figure it out. To get good pics of the reel wiper wiring requires unscrewing the mounting bracket from the reel mech frame so you can move the boards and see everything. I usually unscrew reel 2 and 3 boards and flip them out of the way, then you can take a good pic of reel 1 wiring. Then mount reel 2 board and take a pic of it, then reel 3 board.
if you want to email highest possible resolution pictures of as much of you game as you care to take to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them to the folder with the above drawings.
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Un grand merci à tous pour votre aide précieuse :thank_you: qui me permet de bien avancer, je vais regarder cela de plus prés
A big thank you to all for your precious help :thank_you: which allows me to progress well, I will take a closer look at this
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Vous avez complétement raison pour les numéros sur les disques 2 et 3, par contre le disque 1 n'est pas celui d'origine.
Donc avec cette information il n'y a toujours qu'une seule machine possible?
You are absolutely right about the numbers on discs 2 and 3, however disc 1 is not the original one.
So with this information there is still only one possible machine?
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Désolé je viens de regarder tous vos documents fort intéressant et j'ai bien vu qu'il y a deux machines différentes
Merci et bonne journée
Philip
Sorry I just looked at all your very interesting documents and I saw that there are two different machines
Thank you and good day
Philip
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Please edit your replies #3,4,5 and change to English. :yes:
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done
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done
Tu parles français! :propeller:
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Hello,
I do not understand the logic between the M-220-71 strip which must correspond to the second roll, for the moment I have only managed to find this one for purchase and the toothed wheel B.2Q2
I do not see the correlation between the drawings and the depth of the notches
thank you for your explanations
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As there is only one seven on each reel. Therefore there’s going to be ONE notch (index slot) cut into each reel disc that will be the same depth for the 7s. Most likely it will be the deepest cut slot.
After determining the one (7) slot on each reel, align the slot with the index arm.
Place the reel tape against the reel with the 7 in the center line position.
Mark the position, insert tapes in the right order 1-2-3.
Lightly crimp reel edges in one or two areas allowing for minor adjustments.
Finish crimping when all symbols align well with the center line.
Regarding the tapes, check eBay as there might be some re-manufactured tapes for that machine.
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Sorry but I have a problem of understanding, the locations at the level of the combs which are alone are: 2, 5, 6.7 and 8 and the drawings alone on this strip M-220-71 are an orange, a plum, TAC and 7 so it does not seem logical to me or it is that the machine is not a Tictactoe but another model with different bands such as the M-220-202 band for example in the file.
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Your machine is wonderful :hail:
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Thank you.
Can you take photos of the machine interior as to view the components in place.
Also the exterior might help.
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I do not understand the logic between the M-220-71 strip which must correspond to the second roll, for the moment I have only managed to find this one for purchase and the toothed wheel B.2Q2
I do not see the correlation between the drawings and the depth of the notches
thank you for your explanations
below is the complete index disc diagram.
at the top of the columns are "slot numbers" ... those are the same as the symbol positions ("Division numbers") on the reel tape definition document.
i'm not sure why you are looking at a reel tape for a tic-tac-toe machine (code S-TTT-x), so I'm going to stick with the B.2Q2 tape which is M-220-202 and use the 7 as an example.
per the M-220-202 definition, the only 7 is at tape division 10. That corresponds to index disc slot 10.
per the index disc diagram, slot 10 for disc p-484-315 is depth 8.
the depths are the measurement from the center of the disc to the bottom of the slot (R/radius), so depth 1 at radius 2.719 means the slot is very shallow. Depth 8 is 1.734, so david is right and the 7 on this game is the deepest slot on the index disc.
knowing that, you can do as david suggests and position the tape so the 7 is on the payline when the reel is indexed in the deepest slot.
afaik, the factory did it using the slot corresponding to the reference hole in the disc since the highest paying symbol is not always the deepest slot on the index disc. See the first three pics in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_info/reel_strip_positioning/
since it's extremely unlikely you are going to find the tapes for the game, you'll have to make some. What we really need is scans of all the tapes we can find so symbols can be cut-n-pasted onto homemade tapes. The only ones I have so far are in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/tape_symbol_scans/
I anyone has a drawer full of new tapes, hi-res (300 or 600dpi) scans of enough of them to get all the unique symbols would be great. A complicating factor is there's different width tapes.
maybe monte's slot shop has a bunch from the guy I knew in nevada that I could borrow to scan ...
in the meantime, making crude paper tapes with the symbol written per the M-220-20x definition would let you test the machine.
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Hello, thank you for your time and all your explanations which are very clear and allow me to better understand certain subtleties of these incredible machines.
I understand better why I can't find it.
Synthetic :
• Machine has no tape in place
• The machine has no original glass
• The machine does not have an external identification plate as usual nor even a machine number inside
• Two discs out of 3 seem to be original and the third is a homemade one which does not correspond to the original roll number 1 in terms of symbols for the depths.
In addition, I focused on a Tic Tac Toe but to find out what the model is it is necessary to do the reverse investigation by noting the depths of discs 2 and 3 and what will certainly give the symbols and therefore how should be the disc 1.
It is also possible that the reed is incorrectly adjusted in depth of the right roller.
So it gets a little complicated...
Thanks again for your valuable help.
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Here is the statement of the drawings and some photos of the machine
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Pictures
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Pictures
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Pictures
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the last
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Sorry I just realized that I forgot to count two symbols on the right wheel, the 2.Q3
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you're doing good.
if you want to make it like bally did it so you'd match bally documentation, below is an example of a reel wiper wiring diagram used on the 742A-118, 742A-2G and a few other models. They are oddball machines with operator adjustable payback percentage.
1] the columns of rivets marked 1-9 are the slot depths, where 9 is the deepest slot. The gotcha ...
2] the diagram is drawn looking at the wiring side, so the wiper arm represented by the dashed line can only move left. It's impossible for the wiper contacts to sit on the rightmost 4 columns of rivets on the diagram.
3] the way the wiper fingers are connected together is indicated by the sets of joined arrows to the right of the rivet columns. You'd want to redraw those like your game has.
4] the tape symbols corresponding to the slot depths are above the rivet columns. It's not always true that each symbol maps to only one column depth. On multiple line games, games with mystery pays, or games with scatter pays, a payline symbol may index into different slot depths depending on what symbol was above/below it on the tape.
so the J-M rivet columns in your picture are not used, and columns I-A are slot depths 1-9. In this case, you don't use depth 9 either.
you could load the diagram into a graphics program and erase the existing information to create a blank template, then fill in the wiring of your game. For the wire ids, you can look at the payout counter diagram and use those ... bally tended to use the same id's for the payouts (e.g. the wire on the 2 trace is 13, the 5 trace is 15, etc). If the same color wire was used between reels ... but is not the same wire connecting to multiple reels ... then the second use of the wire color would be something like 13-1)
742A afaik have the connections to the payout counter coming from the reel 1 wiper board, so some of the wires on the reel 1 board are going thru the plug connections to your m-645-96 board.
recreating the reel wiper wiring diagram is a bit of work, but it's the only way to determine how the game paid and how much it paid when you don't have all the paperwork or the glass ... or if it's a custom machine or just something assembled from random parts.
having said all that, if the goal is to make a working machine with bally original glass (rather than producing a custom glass), then you're probably starting with finding a glass to stick in the game that matches pays your payout counter disc supports (or replace the payout counter disc also), then you rewire the reels and make tapes so the index discs you have will produce what the glass says.
you may wind up using multiple slot depths for the same symbol to adjust the payback percentage or hit frequency, or you can do the mystery pay approach where the game makes a payout that is not on the glass
finally, if you want to figure out how the 742A-2G machine and it's variable payback worked, I think I have the schematic and some other docs for it ... but not the payout counter diagram.
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Hello, here is the statement of the cards but I admit that it does not necessarily speak to me...
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And the last
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great! I'll convert that info to a schematic representation and it'll be easier to see what the pays are once all the mistakes I'm going to make are fixed :-)
it'll take a few days tho ... have a few other projects to deal with first.
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it looks like your reel wipers/boards are from a 742A-29E - see attached w-1041-320-322 diagram. The matching reel index discs are P-484-[254, 255, 256] also attached.
so you have parts of a 742A-29E, 742A-114 and unknown index disc that could be either or something different.
the payout counter disc is the same for a 742A-29E and 742A-114, but the wiring may have been slightly different - depends on the payouts for each machine.
unfortunately, that means the reel wiper wiring can't be used to figure out what a "two for the money" machine was, so that will stay a mystery for now.
you can compare the below index disc definitions to what you have using your notes and the 742A-114 docs posted previously.
besides the glass, the hard part is usually the index discs. You can rewire the wiper boards to match the index discs, but in this case we don't have the documentation to figure out the original payouts of a 742A-114 (the basic stuff like cherry's and 3 of a kind you can assume ... it's scatter pays, wild symbols or whatever "two for the money" meant we don't know).
you may need to find a glass, then wire the reel index boards and make reel tapes to match the payouts. You'd have to decide which slot depths mapped to which symbols, and you could map more than one slot depth to the same symbol if you had more slots depths than symbols.
if you could make index discs, then you could make the machine any 742A model you wanted ... assuming you could make/find a glass/reel tapes and the documentation existed.
you could also make a completely custom game with any payback percentage you wanted if you can make a glass and tapes. Design a 200% payback machine and I'd still manage to lose all my money in it :-)
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Good morning,
Thank you for your time, your advice and your precious help, I will listen to you and redo a 742 machine with cherries and pears because I have a window and I will just have to redo the strips and for that I am currently missing the drawing pears so if someone has this in high definition I'm interested.
I also have to fill two slots on my disks and I will have a machine that will pay around 76%.
Have a nice day
Philip