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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: henko666 on May 17, 2023, 05:35:40 AM
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Hi,
I got a 856-1 which has a jackpot feature where for a fixed number of pulls (adjustable) a joker symbol on any reel should pay 20.
My problem is that the payouts are completely random on this feature, it can be anything from 1 to 20!
Even if I stop the same reel in the same position(with a joker symbol) the payout differs every time, this never happens on my 3 other machines which has the same feature.
I know there is a "joker" relay which activates the feature for a certain number of pulls and this works ok, but how does the "joker" symbol payout work, never really thought about that?
Best Regards, Henrik
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ok, now you need to post a picture of the front of the machine.
I have no info on an 856, so I assume it was made for non-usa markets - probably at the bally dublin plant.
do you have any paperwork for it?
the typical way the payout would work is the 20 trace on the payout counter disc is used, but instead of being fed by wire 90, it's fed from a normally open switch on the joker relay. When the joker relay powers, the joker circuit on the reel wipers have a path back to wire 30 and a joker symbol will connect that path to the 20 pay trace.
does a joker need to be on the payline?
the usually problem with flaky payout amounts is poor connection between the wiper and the pay trace on the payout counter. Dirty trace or poor wiper finger pressure. In this case, could also be a dirty/misadjusted switch on the joker relay.
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This is the same machine I posted about in Bally facebook group about one credit underpay. That is now fixed so the in none "joker" mode all pays are fine. The solution was (from fb) "No, the problem was not there. The fingers on the payboard are correct. But I found the problem. On the payout unit first step is ok but second step jumps two steps, directly to 4:th.. So the second step is grabbing two ratchet teeth. Fixed it, no problem no. Just turned the ratchet teeth wheel 90 degrees. Funny thing is that it was the wrong way, they had put a screw as stopper. So now when i turned the wheel the correct way I got brand new unused teeth"
So I think everything on hopper is ok, checked all the cables.
Also the Joker relay you see on the picture with a multimeter and everything there is ok.
But as you stated the feed to the 20 payout is interupted for some reason, and it could stop anytime. Seen the payoutbord wipers stop at like 7 where there is no payout at all regulary.
Beside the Joker relay the is a "regular jackpot relay" which is not activate with the Joker feature, could this be the problem? Dont think so, I think its a relay not used but not sure.
Best regards // Henrik
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if 3 queens always pays 20 correctly, then the problem shouldn't be on the payout counter. If 3 queens also has a problem, how bad are the burns/pits on the 20 trace? When a pay stops, you can try pushing down/wiggling the wiper finger to see if pay starts again ... if you can reach it.
if the regular jackpot relay is not powering for any 20 pay, then it's there for other 856 models. Without a schematic can't say for sure, but usually a problem with a switch on it would cause all pays to not work. JK-JK-JK in joker mode doesn't pay a jackpot of some kind?
if the joker needs to be on the payline, then the most common way bally wired the machine is using different wiper fingers on the reels to to connect to a joker relay switch, and when the joker relay was powered that switch closed to the 20 trace. A different way used diodes on the reel wiper boards and one extra wiper finger.
in either case, you'd be looking at the wiper fingers unique to the joker mode for poor connection to the rivets. If someone replaced a wiper and soldered fingers together, look for bad solder joints.
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I was absolutely sure 3 queens was paying out correctly but obviously I had missed testing that 😊
Well they didn’t anyway, so the problem is as you stated on the payout counter.
I connected the hopper outside the machine with an extension beau cable and slighty pressed the wiper on the 20 payout trace with my finger and sure enough it pays correct every time 😊
Tried cleaning the wiper and the payout board and adjusting the wiper but I cant get enough pressure on the wiper so the payout is not interrupted.
If this had been a normal coin payout machine I don’t think there would be a problem but since this is setup to give credits and the pivot arm is activated with a relay, I think the relay makes the trace to be interrupted because of the movements.
Problem is solved anyway, I just need to exchange the wiper arms or find a way to pressure the wiper arm on the 20 trace a little bit more.
Thank you for the help wolftalk, It’s always great to have someone to exchange thoughts with!
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the best way to increase the wiper pressure on the contact plate is remove the wipers and bend the fingers down a little. You want all the contacts to be at the same level.
if you bend them too much, then the unit will have trouble stepping up or resetting due to the pressure ... but it's easier to bend the wipers back up when they are installed.
on resettable stepper units (except payout counters with the spiral cam), hold onto the white plastic ratchet on the back of the unit when removing and especially installing the wipers.
if the ratchet moves away from the unit frame enough for the reset stop to disengage the tab on the unit frame, the torsion spring tension will unwind and you'll need to take off the spring, reset the ratchet against the stop, and reinstall the spring with roughly 2.5 turns of tension +/- 1/2 turn.
if it turns out the trace is damaged from arcing and you can't repair it, you can use any payout counter contact plate that has the trace lengths you need for your payouts. It's often possible to cut traces that are too long to match the payouts on your glass.
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Yeah, took it apart (done that before) and bent the wiper fingers down a little bit and everything is now working.
Its nearly impossible to bend the fingers when the wipers are at place and taking it apart is no big deal I think.
Maybe without noticing it I bent them a little uppwards when I took the assembly apart a couple of weeks ago to turn the ratchet teeth wheel 90 degrees.
Its amazing how little is needed sometimes for something to not function properly on an old em machine and at the same time its amzing when everything is setup correctly that these machines can function for ages without any kind of service :)
Thanks again wolftalk & have a nice day!