New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: fixinstuff on December 06, 2014, 02:06:20 AM
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Hi again guys. Found this on craigslist. I have had good luck with the wild cherry igt slot and am wondering if this is worth working on? I haven't talked to them yet about what the problem is. Is it a hard slot to work on? http://denver.craigslist.org/clt/4773685663.html (http://denver.craigslist.org/clt/4773685663.html)
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this is a E-series bally - has credit play feature - uses standard e-series boards - does have a credit board which are very reliable - may also have sound.
It is a VERY LARGE MACHINE - so be prepared to strain yourself moving it.
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OK. Thanks GOS. I'm going today to try and check it out. If I get it, I'm sure I'll be back here! John
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Well for better or worse, I got the slot. And or course it doesn''t work. Won't be doing much over Christmas/New Year but some pictures are attached; more if anyone asks later. It is a E2304-16...marked on the side name tag and on the game chip. Has a display board in the upper box and an unknown little board mounted on the bottom right side. This little board has two little round "windows" where maybe a light indicator or something might shine through? Have not taken it off to see whats on the back side! Look forward to working on it and with your help getting it going again. Have a Merry Christmas and thanks.
Seen ya all next year!!
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Well, guess it's time to get serious about getting this slot to work. I think it's close to working. I've checked/repaired all the ribbon cables. I've run the manual tests. Checked and cleaned all the connections. I have some of the manuals. All the manual tests seem to be OK. It does not have a tower light. There is no battery...does it need one? Here's the status... Plug into 110v, open door turn on...all reels index, door open buzzer is on, lights are on. Close/lock door, insert coin is ON, drop in coin and coin accepted is ON, door open buzzer is still on and buzzing. Pull handle, reels spin...and spin...and spin...do not index or stop at all. Kick switch and arm switch seem to be OK on the reel assembly. I checked the door open switch (cherry switch and it seems to be working OK. (it is hooked up so as to be closed when door is opened) Well, I'm thinking the door open buzzer being active whether the door is open or closed is a good clue, but don't know where else to look. Thanks to anyone available to work with me. And by the way, I'm John
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do a 5 test - most likely it will come up all zeroes - bad io board - reader control board.
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Thanks, GOS. I did a 5 test and it looks good to me. The display shows numbers that correspond to the symbols and the numb ers check out on all the reels. For example the "star" corresponds to the number 3 and 3 shows in the display (in the correct location) where ever the star is (payline or wheel) . During the test I can move the reels around and the correct numbers show for all the reels on all 3 paylines. The door open buzzer being on all the time I think is a problem. And what actually causes the wheels to index?
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check the kick switch
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The kick switch is closed at rest and opens when the handle is pulled. It measures no voltage at rest, then has 4.9vdc when the handle is pulled. Measured between the 2 switch contacts.
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check the wiring from the kick switch to the IO board Check the ARM switch too.
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Have you checked your power supply voltages and the soldering of the pin connectors on the same board? Couple other thing to try is cleaning the pin connections on your I/O board. A pink eraser works great. I would also look at your molex plug connections at the reels to cabinet connection. I have found broken and or bad connections there.
Gary
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GOS and Amechanic. The power supply voltages are within .2 volts of desired so I'm thinking they are OK. The voltage to the I/O board is 4.9vdc. When checking the wires, I found one of the molex connections was broken in the white plug on the reel mech. I could just jumper around the plug for that wire to see what difference it will make, but I want to find some molex connections to fix it right. The broken one is a double blue (or green) and doesn't look like it is involved with the kick or arm. I did clean up the connections on the kick and arm switches so they both have good tight connectrions now. Gotta go eat now and will get back on later (tonight or tomorrow). Thanks, John PS: GOS you were right on...I did not have continuity from the kick and arm to the molex plugs...I had checked the switches and they were OK, but had not checked for continuity...my bad!
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well I got the molex connector fixed. And this is where I'm at. The buzzer still is on all the time so I unpluged it because it was getting hot. I tried the manual tests again. I can't run #5. All I get is "5 0 0 0 0 0" when I press the test switch 5 times and hold it down on the 5th press. When I release the test switch, I get "0 0 0 0 0 5" and nothing else happens. I push the coin switch wire and nothing happens.
**#2 seems to work OK...everything seems to work as supposed to except the buzzer isn't indexed and there isn't any tower light to turn on. All 5 reel sol are indexed in test #2.
**#3. I'm not sure about.
coin switch: when pressed displays 3_ _001 and 3_ _120 when released
door hinge switch: when pressed display doesn't change
hopper level switch: when pressed displays 300004 and 300000 when released
start to pull handle switch: when pressed displays 3_0204 and 300000 when released
hopper switch: when pressed displays 300000 and 3_ _002 when released
kick switch: when pressed displays 300000 and 3_ _010 when released
arm switch: when pressed displays 300000 and 3_ 0000 when released
loser "key reset" when pressed displays 300000 and 3_ 0220 when released
**#4 hopper pays out 10 coins and display displays 4_ _ 010
**#5 while holding test switch down on 5th push displays 000005 and 00000_ when released (cannot do any more in #5)
**#6 when released, shows 551383 (the number on the IC)
**#7 displays 17, 18, 19, 20, and then 50_ 0000
**#8 displays 000008 and 800000 when released
After #8 close and lock door displays 50_000 with insert coin light on
Insert 1 coin and accept is on and insert is also on (if insert 2 more coins then insert light goes off)
pull handle, reels spin and displays _0_000
reels do not stop...nothing else happens...payline 1 is still on, but cannot pull handle again.
Power supply voltages are 4.88, 6.99, and 9.44
Don't know where else to go next? Thanks, thanks, thanks. John
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A follow up to my last post. I checked test #8 further. During #8 test I can push the coin switch 1, 2, or three times and then pull the handle and the reels will index (stop). and displays 830000 (after pushing coinswitch 3 times). Don't know what that means, but maybe is a good sign? John
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If your machine has 5V reel reader boards they have led admitters. You won't see them light up. In test 5 you want to unlatch your reels so you can rotate them and watch for your win meter display to change as the symbols change on each reel. Have you checked your connections of the plugs on the reel reader as well as the control board located in the inside front wall of the reel carrier? Your power supply voltages seem a bit low. I know if they drop too much, your machine will not operate correctly.
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Thanks, amechnic. I know the power supply is low, but I think within the acceptable range. Yes it uses the 5v LEDs. Couple of days ago, test #5 worked great. But since then, I've (1)fixed the broken wire on the reel mech white molex connection, (2)reset all the ICs on the MPU, (3)checked and re plugged all the ribbon connections/pins, (4)removed, checked pins and reset the two little boards on the I/O board. Everything seems to go back together OK...maybe I should cut that wire again on the molex connection! :) PS: I did release all the reels for the #5 test and it appears that there is no voltage to the LEDs (haven't checked for voltgage yet at the reel boards or the reel mech board) I need to study the schematics to see where the boards get power. I've checked the 6 fuses on the fuse block and the fuses are OK. Possibly the connection on the power supply board isn't sending any voltage to the boards.
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My friend here Dan Ellis is the expert on these boards and voltages. He goes by the name of dhellis here. I'm surprised he has not chummed in on your problem? It's possible because your header doesn't say it's an E-Series, just a 5 reel. You could try to send him a PM to see if he could read your post and ask his advice.
He could explain the power supply's voltages.
Gary
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That's a really good idea. I'll PM him. Is there any way to change the title of this thread? I was wondering why there were no e-series people . Thanks
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I just sent a message to the moderator to list this under the Bally E2000 section. If you look at the bottom of any post there is a link to them.. Hopefully we can get this corrected.
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I have this board on notify but did not get any messages about a new topic, that is why I didn't jump in.
Fixingstuff, you mentioned trying to figure out how the reel reader get turned on. There are 2 things that
need to happen. First Q32 on the IO board needs to turn on to supply voltage, the boards are turned on when
pin 11 of the boards is biased low. I have found that placing a 3K ohm resistor between pin 11 and pin 14 of
the reel reader card is sufficient to turn on the IR Emitters. If you have a 5 volt DC source you can apply
the 5 volts to pin 16 (positive) and pin 14 (ground) then attach the 3K resistor between pin 11 and ground. This
will turn on all of the emitters. You can then measure the voltage of each of the emitters on pins 1,3,5,7 and 9
You should read somewhere around 3.0 volts. As you measure each emitter, block the light and voltage should
drop to near 0 volts.
You power supply has 3 voltages UR, ZC and 5 volts. UR has to be above 8 volts since this is the input for
the 5 volt regulator and that requires at least 8 volts in order to maintain regulation. ZC will be close to 10 volts
but only at full load (drawing 1 amp) When I test these I use resistors to produce load so when drawing 1/2
amp I see ZC down around 8.5 volts but at near 10 volts when drawing a full amp.
The 5 volt regulators have a spec of 4.75 to 5.2 volts and logic chips will operate at 4.5 volts. I personally do not like to
cut it that close so if the voltage is low suspect the 2 mfd cap on the output of the regulator and if UR looks to be about
half of normal check the 4 individual diodes, very low UR then the bridge rectifier or 11.5K capacitor could be at fault.
I wrote up some test procedures for testing reel readers and power supplies and they are sitting at
http://www.coinslots.com/tips/bally-e-series/ (http://www.coinslots.com/tips/bally-e-series/) That website is owned by another NLG member.
All 0's on test 5 can be the reel reader decoder board or U8 on the IO board
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dhellis, thanks for helping so late tonight. Actually my user id should be "tryingtofix stuff" :) The supply voltages read +5=4.88, ZC=6.99, and UR=9.44. I'll check tomorrow and post results. Something went wrong because #5 test worked a couple days ago and all reels wore OK. The display showed the correct symbols/positions. No I only get 00000 in the display. You might not have read all of my posts on this slot. It was not working at all when I got it. I've cleaned the connections and repaired/checked the ribbon cables. It does concern me that the door open buzzer is always on.
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I just sent a message to the moderator to list this under the Bally E2000 section.
I guess I'm not seeing the Bally E2000 section. As far as I can tell this topic is already in the correct place, the Bally Reel Games category. If you think that it belongs somewhere else, please let me know...
I did re-name the title of the first post to include mention of the fact that it's an E-2000 machine.
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The board states Bally Reel games and lists the 1000 and 2000 machines so I also believe that it is in
the correct place. Thanks for changing the first post name, that should get the rest of the Bally E experts
to notice.
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If you scroll back to my post - I indicated that the problem is the IO BOARD or contol board - obviously - my answer was not acceptable. Why can't you accept the right answer?
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do a 5 test - most likely it will come up all zeroes - bad io board - reader control board.
CORRECT ANSWER!!! applause!!!!! thank you very much.
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do a 5 test - most likely it will come up all zeroes - bad io board - reader control board.
CORRECT ANSWER!!! applause!!!!! thank you very much.
Yes.. Yes you did.. :applause: At that time I do believe the person said the win meter was showing different numbers for the different reel symbols.. Sounds like its time to regroup and look at all the information we now have..
Question.. Would the machine operate correctly in test 8, if the IO had a problem?
Gary
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Not sure if this effects anything, but OP mentions the door buzzer does not turn off when the door is closed. The switch behind the door hinge needs adjusted or replaced or wires are not connected properly.
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^^ What Sunrise said. Also, there is a short pigtail on one of the IO board connectors, with a fork terminal, connected to the ground.
You should cut that wire. Once you do, the machine will function with the door open, for testing purposes. I think that wire was part of a circuit that was necessary to appease the gaming commission. Cutting it disables the feature.
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machine is NOT READING READERS so the machine will not run - 8 test is allows game to run with door open - you need to fix the reader problem - otherwise you are just wasting time.
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Well, I learned one thing...at least...to make sure the post thread is named correctly! Happy to hear from all of you. :applause: To be clear, couple days ago, the reel readers were working and display showed all symbols/positions correctly. Test #8 (with door open) works as far as it accepts coins and lets the handle pull, reels spin and index (stop in correct order)...I've never hit a win during test #8 so there is no indication that the readers are working during test#8. What I'm going to do today is trace voltages...I'm still hoping it's just connection problem somewhere. And GOS is probably right...the I/O or reel board could have gone bad since I've been messing with the connections. The info from dhellis will help me. To address the other comments: I've checked the door hinge and the switch is OK, and it will cause the machine to reset when the door is closed, so I think it is adjusted OK. Be back later, thanks
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OK. dhellis, do I connect the 5v directly to one of the reel reader boards? and connect the 3ohm also to the same reel reader board? Should I remove the reel mech (disconnect the two molex connectors?) I guess I should remove the reels to better get to the readers? Does it make any difference which reader gets the 5v and resister?
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The reel readers should be removed from the machine and tested individually.
Connect 5 volts to pin 16 (positive) and pin 14 (ground)
The 3,000 ohm resistor is connected to pin 11 and pin 14, this will turn on all of the IR Emitters. A voltage reading
of around 3 volts should be at pins 1,3,5,7 and 9. If those readings are not there then the likely cause is the
small transistor that is also located on the reel reader board
**** Added info ****
If you split the cards you can see that the IR emitters are lit if you view them with a digital camera. This works
best in a low light area
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wow, this is a slot with some serious problems!! I tested each of the reel readers and they are all OK. I only had a 3.4K res and a cheap ac adapter (5vdc). But they all tested out OK, all leds were between 2.5 and 3.5vdc. Most were pretty close to 3vdc. Well then I put it all back together and sure enough test #5 still shows 0000. And now #8 test won't release the handle. I hate to quit, but ...
Well, no I won't give up yet. The handle release sol is pulsed in #2. If I leave the inside on/off switch ON, then shut the door and lock it, then plug it into 110, the slot goes through some sort of initial auto testing, displays 000017, 000018, etc and then says insert coin. It accepts coins, but can't pull handle. Test #8 (with door open) displays insert coin and accepts coin, but NOW can't pull handle. Maybe back to GOS's advice...I/O or reel mech board! BTW, there are 2 key switches on the handle side: one above the handle and one below the handle...what are they for? the top one doesn't seem to do anything, the bottom one sometimes will reset the slot. ??? dhellis, I haven't checked the I/O board yet...I need to go back to the schematics I guess.
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May want to double check the pins on the ribbon cables and the items that were reseated and check for a bent pin?
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I will.....tomorrow. Thanks PS: I have some ribbon connectors so I might replace all the original connectors. Can't hurt , the new connectors have better pins. This may be silly, but am I right that the red "key" on the ribbon goes to pin 1 on both ends, and that pin 1 on the board connector is the corner that is angled ? Sometimes there is a white spot marked on the board to indicate pin 1...right? The white dots that I can see all match the angle corner on the female connectors.
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I think what I might do is pull all the boards and send them to dhellis to have him check them on his board tester.
I know you said that you checked fuses, but did you pull the fuse holders and inspect them? I have found a lot of those old fuse holder cracked, or they are just in poor condition. I resently bought two machines. The one that powered on but that was about it. I opened it up and got to looking around I found duct tape every where. Holding the power supply board plug in place and you couldn't see the fuses due to duct tape holding the caps on. Once I went through the basic wiring problems including a shredded cord the machine came to life. Have you looked around and under things for loose change? I have found money behind IO and MPU boards as well as under the transformer and in behind the hopper boards.
I'm sure that these are not your problems, but just some I've found. I alway start from the plug and work my self inside. It can save you headaches later on..
So I'm thinking if you don't see any other bad plug connections any where, then I would get the boards tested to eliminate them.
Gary
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I just looked at one of my machines. The ribbon cable between the IO & MPU doesn't have the red edge. Mine has a white dot or arrow. The mark on my MPU ribbon cable is towards the back right side and looks like its on the top of the plug. The IO end is again on the right end of the plug on the bottom.
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Amechanic, I'll check both boards to make sure the ribbon cables are correct. I've been thinking that I should replace the connection on the power supply too. It does have a burned contact on the female connector. The pins look OK, but I haven't been able to clean that burned contact. It is pin #9. I'll also take out the fuse board so as to check it better. Thanks
Oh, and I agree that I probably will end up sending dhellis the boards.
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That burnt pin could be a big problem. Those plugs use the connector that only contacts the pin on one side.. Very bad design and not meant to last 35+ years I'm guessing. Did you remove the power supply board and check that pin headers solder joints for cracks? That's another problem with these power supply's.
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yea, I had the PS out and didn't find anything bad on the board itself. But the voltages at the test points are a little low so the PS is getting weak. I'll check and fix that bad contact tomorrow. #9 looks like an output so if I should be able to test continuity at the fuse block. Don't know why I haven't checked it before...or, wait...maybe I did? :duh: :Scratch-Head: At my age...anything can happen. :>)
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BTW, the MPU has NO battery. Does it need one?
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The battery is not really needed, it only maintains data in memory and that data consists mostly of
accounting stuff the casinos and gaming commission needed.
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From my understanding no it doesn't. It was used for holding the book keeping information and had nothing to do with game play. If you do install one, it was a Ni-cad 3.6V AA.. You can install a lithium but only if you do a small Mod to the MPU to disable the charging circuit. You can get that information from dhellis.. He can also give you a few places on the MPU to check for bad solder joints due to the chips heating up.
Gary
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Well since Gary mentioned it I might as well post it so others will know. If you are going to use a lithium or other
non-rechargable battery then you need to remove 1 resistor and replace it with a diode such as a 1N4001. The resistor
is R56 on an E2000 board or R1 on the small ram board used on the E1000. The band on the diode should face away
from the battery.
Where I have found most bad connections is under the devices that generate the most heat. These would be the 8T28
chips U7 and U8 on an E1000 or U5 and U6 on the E2000, the bipolar proms U21,U25 and U26 on the E1000 U8, U17 and
U19 on the E2000 also the MPU chip
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Well since Gary mentioned it I might as well post it so others will know. If you are going to use a lithium or other
non-rechargable battery then you need to remove 1 resistor and replace it with a diode such as a 1N4001. The resistor
is R56 on an E2000 board or R1 on the small ram board used on the E1000. The band on the diode should face away
from the battery.
Where I have found most bad connections is under the devices that generate the most heat. These would be the 8T28
chips U7 and U8 on an E1000 or U5 and U6 on the E2000, the bipolar proms U21,U25 and U26 on the E1000 U8, U17 and
U19 on the E2000 also the MPU chip
I need to print this out, write it down, or get it tattooed so I don't have to keep asking you this... :fryingpan:
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Good morning to all that are trying to help me. Well, I feel better today. In the middle of the night it came to me that maybe I hooked up the kick/arm wires wrong after checking the reel readers. Soooo, I got up and sure enough one wire was wrong. Now i'm back to where I was. #8 test now will spin the reels and index the reels. All other tests are the same except #5 still gives 0000. Today I'll check ribbon connections and check some more with the PS connection. I'll also remove the MPU and I/O boards to check for cold solder joints. PS: in the meantime, are there any write-ups on how to change the reel strips. My strips don't line up with the paylines like they should. Anyway, Thanks for not giving up on me.
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Good morning... See your not going crazy.. :hissyfit:
Donner or GOS would be the best to help with the reel strips, but I would work one getting operating before that. You could check the screws that hold the reel tins to the hubs and the indexing cam screws. If those are loose, then the reels won't line up. The strip are just crimped to the reel tins. They do and will come loose and more over the years.
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Hey I'm back. Sorry for being so slow...just old. Well, I cleaned up the PS and fuse block and connections there seem to be OK. The ribbon cable from the MPU to the I/O board has good pins and coninuity. But I have a question and maybe a problem. I'm assuming that the red side of the cable should go to #1 pin jacks on both boards? The way the ends are installed on the cable, I can't connect it correctly. If anyone has an original Bally flat cable, can you verify whether the ends on installed on the same side of the cable OR are the ends on opposite sides. My cable has ends that don't match which makes me think they have been repaired at some point and maybe the ends are not correctly installed. Does this question make sense? If not let me know. John
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This might help:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fribbon_cables_E2000.jpg&hash=095900dd97ef483c4459df89a8181e7f29c241b2)
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It sure does help...Thanks.
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well. After more tinkering, maybe I have found the problem. The ribbon cables have different ends and the ends don't match. I know, I'm probably wrong and I can't believe the connectors are made diferent, but I can't match the wires on the I/O and MPU boards with the ribbon. Also the cable from the display board to the "credit display" has mis-matched ends. I'm posting pics : The black connectors are the original and they were put on just like you would computer cables (the key triangle pointing in the same direction as in the pic) The blue connector is what I got to replace the black one and notice that the rows are shifted differently which changes the pin connections. If the blue connections should work, what am I missing? So...who sells the correct ends? Thanks
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Best bet is to check it with an ohmmeter. All pins must match equal numbers, 1 thru 16 from one end to the other. It might be deceiving looking at the cable, but the red stripe is always pin No. 1.
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Thats how I found the problem. with the ohm meter. The red wire goes to different pins on the blue and black plugs. I can probably find the right plugs at digikey or mouser. But wanted to support anyone on nlg that might be selling them. I know one vender is selling complete cables, but I read someplace that the pins are too short to make good connections. Maybe I'll get this slot going next week :banghead:
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Those 16 pin ribbon jumpers are available at Digikey. Length is not critical, so if they're too long, no problem.
Or, foxslots has it on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALLY-SLOT-MACHINE-E-SERIES-RIBBON-CABLE-/350123645320?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5184fed988 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALLY-SLOT-MACHINE-E-SERIES-RIBBON-CABLE-/350123645320?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5184fed988)
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Hey, to all the good folks helping me thanks, and hello again. :wave: I've been gone, but am now back to the slot. And, hey GOS, if I had just followed your advise and replaced the reel control board, the slot might be fixed today. But....it had other problems so I kept looking at everything. So....here is where I am today. I re-read all the posts and double checked everything again. Voltages at PS: +5_=4.88, ZC=7.0, and +UR=9.36. at the I/O 4.9, and at the reel readers and reel control board 4.8. I have all the ribbon cables fixed and correct. (I still find it hard to believe that my first connectors were configured wrong!) I checked the reel readers (out of the reel basket ) using dhellis's method and they all checked OK. Then, I also checked them in the slot with power on....well....#1 LEDs lit up good (I used an IR detector card that I use for testing remote controls). But the other 4 reader boards DID NOT light up. So...I took them all out and tested (with power) each one in position #1 and they all lit up good in that position. So, GOS, I guess that means "replace the reel control board"...right? I checked everything on the board except the 3 ICs. I might just replace them if I can find them locally. I looked around and didn't find any boards for sale. And, dhellis, if I can't repair it, I will PM you about sending it to you. I'm not sure I can find the exact replacement ICs. PS: I have no idea at this point why test #5 worked so well a few days ago. :Scratch-Head:
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if the readers are not lighting - then check the connections to the readers. the contacts do go bad.
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GOS is right on the money, the connectors for these reel readers do go bad, or maybe just a broken wire on pin
pairs 15/16 and 13/14
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Hi GOS and dhellis. I did check those connections (J2 and J1) on the control board and the connection on each reel reader. Also checked the two large (red and white) MOLEX connections on the reel basket and they all are OK.
Also, as suggested, I checked the arm/kick wires all the way back to the I/O board. dhellis, what part numbers do you use for the ICs on the reel control board?
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I use the 7417,
74146 74145 (fat fingers) and rather than using the 74C14 I use a CD40106.
Don't use a 74S or 74LS14, they won't work, a 74C14 (CMOS) or the CMOS CD40106 have the
faster switching times needed to read the codes.
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Good. Thanks, dhellis. Do you routinely replace all 3? I don't have any way of checking each IC.
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I find it easier to replace all 3 and there is an error, one device should be [blink]74145[/blink], not 146
sorry about that.
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I have all the ribbon cables fixed and correct. (I still find it hard to believe that my first connectors were configured wrong!)
Where did you find the correct ribbon cable ends? I bought some but the pins are shorter then the original ones..
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amechanic, actually, the new pins I used are a little shorter too. But the pin configuration is correct. I got them from www.jameco.com (http://www.jameco.com) in Belmont, CA. I think the exact size etc can be ordered from Digikey or Mouser. I checked the continuity after I plugged the ribbons in and they did make contact OK. dhellis, I didn't find the CD40106 IC locally so I have to order...it'll be a few days...I'll be back.
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I also bought mine through Jameco, dhellis helped me find those. I was a little disappointed to find the pin were shorter. I never measured the old ones against the replacement. I just assumed it was a standard length..live and learn, because you know what they say when you assume something!! :banghead: :fryingpan: I'll have to go search Mouser to see what they have.
Gary
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It might be easier to just replace the 16 pin DIP socket with a standard IC socket. Then, any jumper will work.
They probably used popular components back in the 80's when the boards were made, but a lot of that stuff has gone away. Hard to find thru-hole parts any more.
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i have the original augut thru hole on ebay item
151529858747
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ramegroom, that's a great. I'll do that if the new ones fail to keep contact. I'm sure that should be checked after moving the slot. I'm actually putting IC sockets on the reel control board when replacing the 3 ICs. Probably sockets are not used on the reel control board because of the reel basket gets quite a bit of vibration and shakeing, but I think the ICs will be tight enough in sockets to hold.
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Well, OK...I'm about to give up now and send in the boards to dhellis. But first, I guess one last question. I've tried to read the schematics , but it makes no sense...to me. I repaired the reel control board (replaced the 3 ICs), but no improvement. WITHOUT the reel board, NONE of the reel reader's LEDs light up. WITH the board installed #1 light's up good, the others don't. If I remove all readers and try each one in position #1, each one will light up. With all the readers installed and the board installed, there is 5.88 vdc to each reader and gnd is continuous all the way back to the I/O board. (I would say they are "daisy chained"?) According to the schem...the way I understand it...the circuit for the LEDs actually by-passes the control board so all the LEDs on each board should light up with or without the board...but they don't. (without the board even #1 doesn't light up). So why is the board required to light up the LEDs and why is only #1 lighting (with the board)? This beats me. What am I missing? John
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This may be a bit difficult to explain but here goes anyway.
The reel readers require the decoder board because though the voltage is on each pin, they are actuated
by pulling pin 11 of each card low. This is the reason my repair instructions state to tie a 3K resistor to ground.
When pin 11 of the card is pulled low (Logic low) it enables the small transistor turning it on and supplying
voltage to the other emitters.
To get a better understanding, download the PDF file for the 74145 IC, you will see that the inputs are tied to
reel control 0,1 & 2 on J4 coming from the IO board. The 74145 is a BCD to decimal conveter and reading the truth
table will show when each line would be at a logic 0 level.
I know that when I built my reader card tester, I made an assumption that the 5 volt cards worked the same as the
50 volt cards and then we all know what happens when we assume. It took me a bit of digging into the schematics
and reading the truth tables to realize that I needed to have a bias on that transistor before the card would turn on.
Without the bias, only the first emitter would ever turn on.
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dhellis. Yep, I assumed too. Thanks for the explanation. So I'm sort of back to square 1. With the slot locked up, it accepts coins, displays "coin accepted", lights up correct pay-lines, reels spin, reels still won't index. Door open buzzer is still on with door closed. Test #5 is still all zeros. Other tests seem to be OK. It actually accepts more than 3 coins and the credit display stays at zero (but I think that's a problem to address later). Test #8 accepts coins and reels will spin ( after pulling handle, it locks and you have to insert another coin in order to pull handle again (normal I think)). Sounds like bad connections somewhere OR bad logic somewhere! I'll try replacing U8 on the I/O board, to see if that makes any difference.
I've:
1. replaced the 3 ICs on the reel control board...didn't make any difference
2. dis-connected the door open buzzer...made no difference
3. cleaned all connections...made no difference
4. removed and reset all game chips...made no difference
5. tested all reel readers...all are good...made no difference
6. tested and repaired ribbon cables...made no difference (actually did help because there were no displays before)
7. replaced R8 and Q1 on MPU...they run hot so changed to be sure...made no difference
PS: I didn't use IC sockets on the reel control board since it is 2-sided. (a little harder to insure good solder joints)
I'll be back....
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Q1 is a darlington transistor so hope you ordered the D40K3 or found a substitute.
U8 on the IO board uses an 8T98 and you can use a 74368 (74LS368) as a replacement.
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Right. I used a NTE268 and will use SN74368AN for the 8T98.
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Well, that didn't fix it either...so time to PM dhellis about checking the boards....be back soon....stand by...I'll post when it is working...promise
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FIXINSTUFF,
Just got your PM and though I would answer my issue in the public section so others could benefit.
So my sad story was I bounced a coin into the payout control board and burned up some stuff,
I sent my board to Dan H and he found a couple of bad IC's but the mistake I made was not sending him my ribbon cables. So when I got the boards back I broke a pin on the MPU to IO board. So I found a guy online that was selling cables and purchased two from him just incase. Wouldn't you know that the first one I pulled out of the box and put it in my system the pin's on it were about 1 mm shorter than the original cable (I did not notice for several days) It was a late night when I got the idea to swap it out to the 2nd cable, then TA-DAAA the thing started working.
So the issues I saw with the disconnected (or improperly connected MPU to IO) was erratic IO operations for all devices. When the sequence test (#2) would lockup on the first or second operation, also the sound board would not correctly work.
You may want to give Test #2 a run and watch the machine as it will give you a hint based on the output sequence.
Dan H did save me a bunch of time by testing but be sure to send your MPU to IO cable with your boards.
- Joe[size=78%] [/size]
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Jpduffy, Thanks for reply on this board for all to see. I'll be sending my boards and ribbons to Dellis also, but first I want to fix some bad connections that I found...including some ribbon connections that have short pins. Thanks for your info.
Dhellis, Well, I guess I'm not giving up yet. I replaced the female ribbon connector on the IO "slot id" board with an IC socket and got a much better contact. But then when I tried to run the tests, I got no low voltage power. Checked the PS and no output. Wiggled the PS connector and got power back and could run the tests. So I need to replace the PS connector and I think I will replace ALL the green ribbon connectors because the new ribbon connector I have all have short pins. After correcting the connectors (again), I'll see how the tests look. Then send you the boards if necessary. Thanks to all for sticking with me. Be back later. :stirthepot: I'm still stirring this pot...I mean slot!
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:applause: I'm back. And happy. With the help of all on here and especially RAMEGOOM we have a working slot. Well, almost. With the gracious help of RAMEGOOM and his boards, we were able to swap boards and decide that the problem with my reels not indexing is my I/O board. RIGHT ON, GOS! and DHELLIS. (and others). So now I know for sure that my I/O board needs a fix. The slot plays good, smooth, all lights work, reels symbols are correct, pays are correct, door open buzzer works correctly. So what's my problem now? Well, the credit function isn't working right. If I should, I'll start a new post. I'll wait for the moderator to tell me which way to go. Thanks again to all on this first problem of non-indexing reels. The problem is the I/O board which dhellis can fix.
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Glad to hear it's up and running. I'm not sure about the credit play, but I would think it's controller is remote, rather than with the CPU. Tracing those indicator lamps to another source might be in order.
And it's good you were in close proximity to my slot stash...sure made things simpler.
John
>>
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OK. I'm going to wrap this topic up. I sent the boards to dhellis and he got the machine working. :applause: The MPU was OK. The IO board had a bad capacitor (C4), and 2 bad ICs (U8 and U12). The machine now plays correctly, the reels index and all symbols are correct (test #5), wins are paid in credits, (winner paid amount is correct), credits can be played or cashed out OR coins can be used and winning credits will accumulate. The "winner paid" amount is correct when the credits are cashed out. So the original problem with this topic was that the reels didn't index and reel readers didn't read the reels. And that problem was the bad IO board. So, thanks to all for helping me. :thank_you: I do have one problem left to fix. Now the credit display LED isn't lighting up. :Scratch-Head: Everything is working correctly, there just isn't any display to show how many credits there are. This problem is being addressed in another post of mine:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=5232.new;topicseen#new (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=5232.new;topicseen#new)
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Yea! :propeller: Working machine is much more fun to have in the house!
- Joe
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Hi Joe. I'm glad you replied. Yeah, it feels good to be getting close. If I can just get the credit thing working right, it'll be good. I've started a new post to discuss the credit display problem now. Please join me there. John
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This is the new topic: http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=5232.new;topicseen#new (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=5232.new;topicseen#new)