New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: nauseous on January 08, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
-
Picked up a Bally 1071-3.
Fluro lights come on when i flick the power switch to on.
The RED Pilot light never comes on. I have checked the bank of fuses behind the hopper and none are blown.
I am currently tracing the wiring to try figure out where everything is running. I haven't taken any voltage measurements on the transformer (Not sure which terminals are primary yet). The transformer appears to be in relatively good condition.
Has anyone seen this before? Have I missed something simple?
The reset button on the timer is pushed in.
-
Check the plug and the wire where it enters the machine underneath. I have seen intermittent problems there. Otherwise, I check the voltage from the bottom of the fuses or just check the continuity of each fuse in the holders. They do become bad from time to time. Then I will go back top the transformer if I dont see a problem there.
Dave F
-
OK my mistake. I have traced the circuit further..
When the reset switch is in the off position the red pilot light comes on; the machine is then in shutdown. No line voltage allowed past reset switch.
Hitting the reset switch brings 240v back and the machine turns on again (and the pilot light off)..
-
Can anyone point me towards a pinout for the transformer terminals and what voltages they are meant to be?
It is running on 240v.
-
a picture of the transformer would be nice and I will tell you what wires are what voltages
-
Your output voltages should be coming from the secondary of the transformer:
solid blue, and solid yellow 6VAC
solid orange and solid yellow 50VAC
The EM's do not have a Ground, the ground is considered the return or solid yellow wire at the center output of the transformer. None of your voltages should go to case ground, all circuits should be isolated from case ground. The only ground you should have to case is the green ground wire from your line voltage coming in.
If your output voltages 6 and 50V are either half that, or double that (12V for blue and 110V for orange), then you will need to change the input wiring to your transformer. You should find that in the free download EM manual at the bottom of ovenguy10's posts. Nauseous, Love the name, been there often. Are you out of country in a 240V environment?
-
See attached photos of transformer and wiring diagram.
Hope this helps.
-
That is awesome, thank you all very much for the information!
I am in Australia; so yep 240v is our standard for power transmission.
Will be back with an update soon.
-
OK I am getting ~59v AC and ~6.9v AC on the secondaries. So that's a good start. I suspect an older machine like this is pretty tolerant so unless someone says otherwise those voltages aren't a major cause for concern.
I think the machine has been setup to not payout; ultimately I want to get it accepting slugs and paying out again. The hopper was included with the machine when i purchased it but it wasn't installed (sitting beside it).
The few things I can see straight away from looking at it:
1 - Slug mechanism removed and slug chute missing.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FDnqsuo0&hash=93900d8865857e3754f7db52d65be6123fd0558b)(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDnqsuo0.jpg&hash=abcbdaa807333fb19ff8196d1d257eec8bff008a)
2 - Plunger removed from coil making in-operative.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FwJP6Zvr&hash=c4cdb0664163a3fc6367dba9752870d325a35421)(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwJP6Zvr.jpg&hash=a4a9a4cf7edbae84678c621a7fce49dc3a19b196)
3 - Wiring on reel mech...
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FOorMErr&hash=6518ebc234dc3bb49f07e72690de5b3c74290c93)(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOorMErr.jpg&hash=5b1110ccccf6e456dac16c6b893d9179f46086f0)
When powering the machine up it doesn't do anything from what I can see (apart from fluro's) no insert coin lights etc. I have yet to power up with the hopper installed (waiting rebuild).
What do you guys think, has it been setup for free spins without payout perhaps? Or do I need the hopper installed for all the circuits to be completed.
I haven't tried to engage the handle and trigger the reel mechanism as yet. According to the manual I should see the coin input light up, which I'm not getting. But that could be as simple as a blown bulb..
Back with more soon.
-
the voltage is fine and yes you need a new aremature for the handle release the wires on the real machine go to the counter coin counters
would be nice if I knew what to 1071 was post a picture look for the machine
-
I should be able to scavenge an armature for it from some pinball parts i have here. Could you perhaps post a photo or two of how the armature is held in place so I can replicate something.
As for the machine; I found it on the east coast of Australia by chance. The seller had it for at least 20 years (so he said) - OK condition I guess it didn't see much rain or moisture which is good.
It is plated as being made in Dublin.
Once I get it working internally I will clean up and restore it as best possible.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLkka2YT.jpg&hash=39b43089edacea3535e76f935d4c0b02dbad8ad3)
-
The manual gives an exploded view. A photo of how it looks would also be handy.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F98ENrzq.jpg&hash=eaefe3eba8902eaa1262482234cbf2be699620c0)
-
Pic1
-
yes the manual is a must have if you don't have one on the bottom of my post is a place to look and they have them for free to download
-
How about getting parts for one of these guys. Sure would make life a lot easier if i could source an armature + related parts and a coin chute.
-
I have a lot of all of those parts but I am in the process of moving 2500 miles at everything is boxed up you might try CV slots I know he has a lot of EM parts and there are several other vendors on the vendor list that do carry some Em parts
-
I went out to the shop I have for 5 more of those here if you need one I don't know how to send it to Europe but I can figure it out
-
if you look at the diagram you posted on the right side part number 22 with the real machine in the hopper in if you lift up on part number 22 and see if the Insert Coin light comes on
-
Thanks for the help ovenguy. Certainly interested. I am in Australia; have used USPS in the past without hassle.
I will send you a PM.
-
I suspect something else has been removed from the handle mechanism because at the moment the handle is not locked by default (I can pull the handle freely with the machine turned off).
What should i be checking for now, a stopper arm or something has been removed perhaps ?
-
the armature is what holds the arm up so they handle machine will not go in till the solenoid is activated
-
Setting the handle to home position i can pull it down to engage the reel mechanism with the power turned off. Whatever stopper the solenoid was attracting has been removed i suspect?
-
on the diagram you posted from the manual part number 22 is hold in the up pecision on the very most forword part of it what is up there's a wall lever coming off of the you have a machine that catches it and stops it from allowing to handle be pulled if you look at the picture I posted off the handle really cylinoide it shows it in the opposition if you like I will go out to the shop release the cylinoide and take a picture of the doubt position maybe I can look tomorrow my missions and take a picture of them in the dell position and show you the difference
-
imposition with no coin added handle lock
-
n position one coin
voice recognition software sucks
-
Pic 2
-
Hrmmmm. Part 22 is engaged, I can see the stopper arm you are referring to and it's in the "locked" position, lifting it up doesn't make any difference. I can still pull the handle regardless of that being in locked position. I suspect something further inside the handle mech has been removed. I will post some photos shortly once i open it up.
-
be very careful it will fall apart on you there are a lot of springs and parts in the handle machine you need to take it off to open it up
-
OK so with that stopper in the position as per your photo I can pull the arm down.
Arm pulled 1/2 of distance:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fv2Oo9RA.jpg&hash=199e82439865492ce434063fa7cb4442ff6c8358)
The part circled in red in the below photo is what lifts part 22 about 1/2 way through the arm stroke. Not the solenoid...?
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FG8hnYmL.jpg&hash=eaaf4321d161b695fe01f1246399a398587f1c36)
-
yes that is about right if you hold that arm up with the machine plugged in and everything installed check and see if the insert coin light comes on
-
Thanks for the reply.
Having only ever worked on Aristocrat machines in the past, I was expecting it was a lockout solenoid on the handle mech that should have been stopping it from being pulled...
-
What stopped people from walking along and pulling the handle if they hadn't inserted a coin?
Would it still spin but just not payout?
-
when lever 22 is up the handle should not pull far enough to release the reels
you may need to oil the handle machine so it functions properly if they have had it on free play too long it could be gummed up
-
It appears the the handle lock out / release has been bypassed. Thus the handle can be pulled anytime.
Will be able to send more information tomorrow.
-
hey david I haven't had time to go to storage and dig out that piece of glass for your 809 yet sorry I'll get there this week maybe
-
Thanks David, that would really help me out right now.
-
Thanks John,
As I mentioned in the phone message. The 809 reels and the mechanism are a match set. Completed the "Plums" circuit from the reels beau plug to the payout step up unit payout board and it works perfect. Just need to do the rest. The only other problem is the hopper runs on cherries, but no payout as the wiring is not complete to the step up yet. Somehow the hopper motor is getting power when the 1st cherry stops on the pay line. Going to isolate the wipers from the wiper fingers to see what happens and go from there.
May start a new topic to get a little help on the cherry / hopper situation.
Dave
-
Daniel,[/size]Yes, I have a couple of machines similar to yours. Both Bally's, one is a 1088 and the other is 1090 quarter machines. Tomorrow (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/x-apple-data-detectors://0) I will be able to compare your photos to how it is suppose to be. Will send photos to help. In the meantime try lifting the handle release armature part #22 and push the vertical lever that goes into the handle mechanism to the back of the machine. This should cause the handle to be locked out. Now try pulling the handle.Dave
-
Spot on David, if i lift the handle release armature manually (part #22) and do nothing more the handle mechanism is now locked. It appears that vertical lever is what is stopping the mechanism from moving when armature 22 is lifted.
-
the post office is closed tomorrow will mail it out on Tuesday morning if that works for you
-
Part # 37 above is why you have free handle pull. Lift that up (put something under it) far enough and your free handle will go away. You will be able to figure out why you get free handle when you lift that up, and you should be able to discern why the coil in the back allows handle pull (it lets your lever drop, releasing handle).
Read some of my troubleshooting stuff and you can get more info on handle releases.
-
Well I see I missed all of page 2 comments, so my above comment is pretty redundant now. Yes, part 22 (or 37) or whatever keeps the handle from being pulled and also allows it to pull if it drops.
Nuff said about that.
-
Thanks OldReno, that makes sense now. Exactly what Ovenguy was trying to tell me all along....
@Ovenguy: Whenever you have time and can post that would be great. No major rush.
-
Here are a couple of photos, hope they help out.
John, looks like he will need part # 12 the latch plate that's activated by the magnetic coil.
-
Thanks again for all the help everyone.
I suspect the door is missing maybe one or two more parts (plus a coin mech).
Questions:
1. Screw holes marked in Red: Am I missing something here?
2. Screw hole marked in Orange: Coin chute as per what ovenguy has posted photos of earlier.
3. Blue Circled Connector: Something missing here...?
4. Coin mech: Is this a standard coin mech as per most other coin operated machines? I have nothing like it on hand to check with but see many available on ebay.com.au that look like they will work fine.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdDWu7qr.jpg&hash=e8f58e7404b8ed03dad9634cd4cb4dfa2af444ac)
And the Hopper:
5. Where does this single wire plug go? Am I missing something here as well ?
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5aUndRQ.jpg&hash=bdb435d13ab528bc913c4454a1692e699fb5a0d2)
The reel mech. and bell system are intact and everything else looks pretty complete...
I am yet to rebuild the hopper. Turning the motor spindle by hand the gearbox looks fine and i can see some play on the output shaft - but i suspect the payout disc maybe gummed up. I put very light pressure on the motor spindle while turning, didnt want to give it any 'elbow' till i know more. I suspect one can't check the insert coin light without the hopper inserted? (Ovenguy hinted towards this)
-
question number 1 the holes are for wire ties question number 2 yes question number 3 coin out display good luck finding one that works question number 4 you need the right coin rejector for the coins it was made to take I'm guessing that is the to OC that is written in permanent marker on that housing you know what a 200cc coin is in Australia I do not question number 5 you need to look where that wire goes Bally's would not have put a molex connector on one wireand yes you need to have the hopper installed lift up on lever 22 to see if the coin insert light comes on all parts must be installed for that light to work
-
Yep I'm aware coin mech will need to take correct denomination.
Do all coin mechs fit? Like this one for example:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINBALL-ARCADE-MACHINE-10c-COIN-MECH-LQQK-/321975024514?hash=item4af734fb82:g:k9QAAOSwJkJWjQrT (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINBALL-ARCADE-MACHINE-10c-COIN-MECH-LQQK-/321975024514?hash=item4af734fb82:g:k9QAAOSwJkJWjQrT)
Or does it require something special.
-
yes that would be the correct style coin machine for the machine and wow I should sell the hundred I have if they're that expensive that is crazy
-
yep some stuff goes for an absolute premium here in Australia, doesn't mean anyone purchases it tho.
-
Attached inside door photos, the 1088 is the cleanest one with less wiring. The other is a 1090 machine.
If you're into pinball machines, you might want to find someone that restores them for you parts.
-
Forgot to mention, I did a couple of modifications to the 1090 machine. So if you are looking closely you'll see I added 3 relays one is solid state and the other two are 48 volt contact type. I used the solid state to control the coin lock out coil due to some conflicting wiring issues I needed to bypass.
The other two relays control the electronic winner paid meter I built and added for aesthetics. Even though the old machine has a tough time counting coins correctly it's nice to have the meter instead of black tape.
-
Awesome guys, thanks heaps. Nice mod Dave!
Sorry for all the questions but I have no other Bally to compare this guy with... A couple more...
The Orange wire leading from molex plug goes to a payout switch on the back of the hopper...? (couldn't find this one in your tutorials oldreno - i must apologise if i missed it)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F75drJl3.jpg&hash=64de48a414986e3159861e81ee6f4b39064ae47c)
And lastly:
The reason why the hopper was out of the unit when i purchased it:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoAfjVto.jpg&hash=c39311af7f66eb22c69ec0755c9c92d66e265fe4)
How is this guy attached to the hopper?
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLTXTOZn.jpg&hash=06cce3699bd59b51aa4c64caaecbf7c0e9770260)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F003Ub18.jpg&hash=a5a894e370410dc744c1cf7f3fd9cc4e6077f316)
It's been pretty beaten up, is it worth trying to save and re-use or source a replacement?
-
And another update on the hopper for those following:
The hopper is setup for 5c coins.
Plate Mark:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxPQDhKs.jpg&hash=3d3d513a5e96bca840983823130764cadf6ac747)
5c Coins:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcUIejr6.jpg&hash=783988ec714ac448186339521f773d6e33db4a1a)
No idea why someone looks to have written 20c behind what was the coin mech. It's a 5c machine, confirmed.
The coin input on the door won't accept a 20c piece, it's too big to fit.
-
I have a couple of hoppers in the garage I will put a coin in one and take a picture of it to when the Sun comes up another couple hours
this is a picture of what the plug should look like
-
this is how the coin should look in the hopper I think you're Harper has been modified
-
Regarding the Cinch-Jones plug better known as the beau plug. It sould look like the one in the attached photo. Looks like someone bent the tabs back on the one in your machine. Try fixing and straighten the prongs first. I wouldn't unsolder it only as a last resort. Installing is easy, remove the four screws on the sides. The tabs will be between the frame and the outer clamps. The plug should have free movement as to align its self with the socket.
-
David its not that bad to replace them and if you look at his picture the plug is actually broken it only takes about 20 minutes to solder a new one in
-
and I'm guessing the spare orange wire goes to the broken plug
-
You are right John. Doesn't take long to replace a plug or socket. If his is broke, most likely it will need replacing. Thanks again for the plug and socket I got from you. Made a real nice 6 foot extension cable.
I made it for the 1090, but it also worked on the 809 when I was inspecting the odds unit. That is the only way you can see the odds unit working outside of the cabinet.
-
that looks really nice Dave mine are all only three feet long if I want to put it on the bench I have to hook to up together maybe if I can find some 30 connector wire like that I will make some six footers
I made all of mine out of old slot machine wires
-
Thanks John, the photo loaded upside down. The next time I'm near the electronic surplus I'll get you some cable. Hopefully they still have it, it was on a spool probably 100s of feet and has 30 wires.
-
Using that multi-strand wire cable looks like it makes an easy job of making an extention cable. I bought a bunch of 18 gauge wire when I built mine. Made mine all 6ft long. I still need to make a couple 30 cords
-
Checked the female side of the cinch plug and it looks to be fine.
But in the process I have realised more parts are missing from the door. Argh...
The latching mech has been removed (not overly concerned about replacing, would be nice).
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfnIewXy.jpg&hash=8ec3cbf9e1c30383280de2ee8b24467f441d5a14)
And the coin reject switch has been removed as well. (looks like the wires are still in harness)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjEcrfUs.jpg&hash=70ab4a76aecd30e6277a1975b4da59ce287540d8)
-
Found a Aussie 5c coin mech one of my local suppliers had stashed away!
Until I get the hopper cinch-plug this project will have to be on hold. A massive thanks must go out to all that have contributed on the forum. Especially Jon (ovenguy10) who has been awesome, I can't thank him enough, without his help this project would have sat idle for a lot longer. Thanks Jon.
I will be back with some updates once the parts have arrived.
And for anyone interested. My background is in PCB repairs as a hobbyist (pinball, arcade and anything in-between). This is the first Bally machine I have ever worked on; done a few aristocrats, but this older tech I must admit is a lot more fun, some really clever stuff the designers have done. (I was born around the time intel released the 80286, so a lot of this is new to me)
-
Wow you're just a kid I was born when we had vacuum tubes and more vacuum tubes
-
Hey All,
Parts arrived (Thanks Jon!). The gearbox is now free on hopper and the new cinch connector is installed.
Some progress at least...
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fr2IoVrU&hash=7c7cf46c19c2790c3aef3453fc2ca23255f94ffe)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fr2IoVrU&hash=7c7cf46c19c2790c3aef3453fc2ca23255f94ffe)(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fr2IoVrU&hash=7c7cf46c19c2790c3aef3453fc2ca23255f94ffe) (http://imgur.com/r2IoVrU)
-
Making progress, that's good. What's next?
-
Got these today. Need one for under the lowest coin chute. Need to install and mark throw, then bend accordingly. Quick and easy one really.
After that just need to install the lockout armature (thanks jon) under coil.
Then it's time to fire it up with all the parts installed. Have rebuilt reel mechanism and hopper, so everything should be happy days (in that regard).
-
Wiring Question:
The other side of the molex plug shown earlier. Orange wire is 50V and brown wire goes to lower coin switch on front door.
Orange wire runs to switch on rear of hopper - what is the name of this switch so i can ID in schematic? I assume this is the 50v input for the hopper?
-
the switch on the hopper is the zero set switch
the molex plug goes to the coin to cash box meter on your schematic
-
ok the molex connector in your hand goes to a meter like the one circled in this picture of which would mount to the bracket circled in the other part of the picture your meter is missing on the machine does not matter...
I will go up to the shop when the rain breaks and look at the schematic I believe that one is like an 8 91 and I will talk you through wear that red black wire goes it goes up to the real machine
the black white wire on that switch should go to a solenoid almost directly behind it. Also has a 70 orange wire going to it
-
take the schematic down and have it printed it will be much easier
I believe this is what you're looking for on the schematic I will get the original out and see what that wire is supposed to be
-
Thanks Jon; this was the molex connector that runs to the set zero pay switch.
I have now terminated it onto the cinch plug. Alas couldn't find the other end, ID'ing the switch for me in that schematic is a good help.
-
I have seen wires in the harness shorted and people put wires and Molex connectors like that this is where it goes to on the real machine
-
Unfortunately the reel unit wiring looks a little different to the one in your photo... I don't have a common wire between all 3 switch banks.
And it seems to have an extra switch in position B..?
-
yes but knowing the wiring that orange black wire at the hopper goes to that orange black wire on the real machine Chase it down it is cut off somewhere or disconnected somewhere for some reason between the real machine and the hopper that is where the wire goes right there to the B switch
-
You don't need a common wire between all switch banks. They each have their own functions.
Also, the extra stack on your 'B' switch I would bet goes to a resettable win meter, probably somewhere on the door so it can be seen by customer.
-
OK so tracing the orange/black wire from reel through harness it runs to the credit board (100 terminal) on hopper..
-
Use your meter, don't just use your eyes, sometimes the same color wire is used twice in the machine.
I recall the 100 pay wire being a black/red trace....????
It makes little sense having the 100 pay wire go through the hopper reset B switch, as pays are disabled during reel spin, which is when that switch closes.
-
Yeah i buzzed it out with a multimeter.
I still suspect the hopper is from a different machine.
So where should the 100 pay wire terminate on the reel ?
-
Set up a 100 payout on the reels. The reel payout wipers will be covering the contacts. This should give you continuity from the 100 solder lug all the way to the reel wiper boards. Continuity should run across all the boards and exit on the 90 wire (solid gray). Actually the power comes from the 90 wire and makes it way to the payout step unit. I've looked at two schematics and the 100 wire is marked 81 ( black red).
-
Thanks David. Thats most helpful.
Is a schematic with wire colours available anywhere on the net?
-
I've attached a schematic for a 809 machine. Its not exactly what you need, but it will help with the wire colors, switches and coils. Hope it comes alone with this message.
-
Probably it comes from the #1 reel board, direct to hopper. You may want to look at cabinet hopper plug to see if wires match to hopper or not.
-
OK that's enough for tonight. Will come back to this tomorrow. Starting to understand whats going on here.
Payout disks and how they work are a bit of a mystery still.
Also I have my own numbering and ID scheme going on here so will need to post photos to correlate. Tomorrow..
And thanks for the schematics, between those and the repair manual it's sure making things easier..
REEL MECH:
Left Cinch: Right Cinch:
| | | | | | | | | | | |
| x | | x | | x | | x |
- - - - - - - - - - - -
1 4 7 10 13 16 1 4 7 10 13 16
2 5 8 11 14 17 2 5 8 11 14 17
3 6 9 12 15 18 3 6 9 12 15 18
Left:
1 - NC
2 - NC
3 - NC
4 - Switch E, Term H
5 - Pay Disk C, Term 2
6 - NC
7 - Switch D, Terminal E
8 - Coin Meter Wire
9 - Switch A, Term B
10 - Coin Accepted Light
11 - Pay Disk A, Term 11
12 - Coin Meter Wire
13 - Pay Disk A, Term 5
14 - Switch D, Terminal D
15 - Switch D, Terminal I -> Door Coin Mech Lockout (Top Wire)
16 - Pay Disk A, Term 30
17 - Pay Disk B, Term 2
18 - Switch D, Terminal A -> Upper Coin Switch NO (Middle Wire)
Right:
1 - NC
2 - NC
3 - NC
4 - Switch C, Term C
5 - Switch C, Term A
6 - NC
7 - Handle Relay Switch (Confirm) -> Switch B Terminal A -> Switch B Terminal B -> Switch D Terminal C
8 - Orange Pwr Wire
9 - Switch C, Term B
10 - Switch B, Term C
11 - Switch B, Terminal F -> Switch B Terminal E -> Switch D, Terminal F
12 - Switch E, Term E
13 - Switch D, Terminal H -> Yellow Wire ??Suspect Power??
14 - NC
15 - Pay Disk, Term 8
16 - Pay Disk A & B, Term 3
17 - Switch D, Terminal G -> Insert Coin Light
18 - Switch E, Term B
**Switch D Terminal B -> Coin Relay Coil
-
Nice tracing, good work.
The payout disc is like a rotary switch. The center of the board is the (F)eed wire, which is in constant contact with your wiper fingers all the time -- it is a circle of contact.
The other fingers contact to the different pay segments, which are 'powered' or turned on by the correct signal from the reel mech wiper boards when a winning sequence happens.
Once the payout relay turns on and the machine starts to pay, it will continue to pay as long as the wiper fingers are hitting on a hot pay segment.
As soon as they step off the hot segment, e.g. 10 pay for oranges, then the feed wire loses its power, and the pay is over.
Does that help?
Good to see you tracking down those wires. That's how I learned.
Note, the bottom of your large schematic shows the pin outs of your Beau plugs...write down the color code number to color translation, you may find it helps if you don't have it memorized when changing wire numbers to wire colors. I use them so often I automatically change number to color in my head, and forget other people don't do that.
-
Great job tracing and identifying the wiring.
Please remind me of the objective you are trying to achieve.
-
Hi David,
The overall aim is to get it running.
Am wanting to confirm that the hopper is wired correctly. At the moment I'm not sure if the reel harness matches up with the hopper; it certainly doesn't appear too.
-
Let me try explain more. Maybe someone can point me in the correct direction here...
Photo 1: This was the cinch plug i removed from the unit. You can see all terminals have wires connected. You can also see where that orange/black wire with molex connector originally went. So orange/black wire is now terminated to pin 20 and not to the molex connector.
So now to the machine side of the harness.
Photo 3 and 4: Shows pin 20 and 5 have nothing connected on machine side. As well as two other pins. So in total I have 4 wires missing in the harness and one (orange/black) is clearly required.
I was hoping to troubleshoot this without asking a bunch of questions, but at this point maybe someone can give me a push. Otherwise I will continue tracing out the harness/connectors.
Thanks again everyone. I couldn't have got this far without the help so far.
-
Scrap the above... Always make sure you look things over carefully and don't just assume. It just bit me.
How do I move forward now. The hopper is 24 pins while the machine is 30...
Can i bring the hopper up to 30 pin, it has a machined plate screwed over top 1/4 of hole for cinch plug (to allow for 30 pin I assume)..
-
If you remove one of the 2 guide pins, then your plugs should be able to seat and then you can wire accordingly.
Make sure you get the right one, I think it would be the top pin, as the bottom should be standard to all machines.
REmove the guide pin on the right as per your photo.
Or you can get the right plug, me, however, I wouldn't wait probably.
Some where there is a 24 pin hopper missing its machine.
Make very sure your 24 pinner has enough spots for all the wiring before you do anything.
-
I am going to go up to the shop drink some beer build a 30-pin Hopper just to see if that'll work
-
All 24 wires are populated. Unfortunately if i remove pin as suggested i will be 1 wire short. Would like to keep wires in harness and not break one out.
-
Couple of photos of the beau plugs on a 1090 reel mechanism, year 1975.
Not real clear, but may help you.
-
Thanks guys for the help. I will have to put this one on hold again till parts arrive. Arghh.
As eager as I am to see it going again happy to wait for the correct part and sort it out once and for all.
Gives me time to invest in other projects while i wait for parts, that is an upside.
-
Okay, have six photos of the beau plugs from two more reel mechanisms. Not sure of the model numbers, but they are the wide reel type. Let me know if you need me to trace a wire on my machine to compare while your waiting for parts. Only thing is, it might take awhile to get to it.
-
Making any progress on your machine?
-
Just waiting on parts to arrive from Jon. Hopefully this week with luck.
Hasn't been all bad, have had a chance to finish some other projects but yeah time to get this one done.
-
Parts arrived this week. Put a bit of time into it tonight.
Fixed the 18 pin beau plug on the reel mech. I got really lucky with this fix. Had to drill and recess circlips in but has worked a treat.
Will install the new 30pin on the hopper next; will follow jon's advice and wire colour for colour on the harness.
Back soon with more...
-
OK got the 30 pin connected.
Onto a problem on the reel now. I'm not sure if the lever is meant to be in front or behind in this case.
2 are behind and this one is in front... I'm sure it's a problem but was hoping someone could confirm. (Disregard arm being in wrong position beside, i removed the circlip/pin)
-
you are correct, that link is out of place..
-
To fix that, pull your reel mech out, give it a half cock with the pump arm, and put a screwdriver blade in between your two half gears to hold it cocked. Then you can remove the reels, and pull your wiper arm forward all the way;. Then you will be able to push that toggle back into place where it goes behind the tab. Or you can remove the reels first, that might make it easier.
-
Moved link back into correct position and everything is now playing nicely on the reel. The variator mechanism was totally gummed up - something I missed originally when going over the unit.
So this is where I am at now; the 30 pin is installed - I matched colour for colour on each side of the wiring harness. I have 4 wires on the hopper side that don't match any colours on the machine side that for now remain disconnected. I have powered it up and after replacing the coin insert switch the machine now:
1. Activates the divertor coil at power on.
2. Turns on insert coin light
3. When coin switch toggled the coin lockout coil engages and turns off insert coin light
And that's it.
The handle mech coil doesn't trigger, nor does the 'coin inserted' light come on. I'm just trying to figure out why now. It appears to be a problem with the common side of the circuit - I can buzz the circuit out from the handle release coil to the reel mechanism switch - but i can't find the common end yet..
-
Have you thought of jumping a good common to the handle lock release coil? This may help narrow down the problem. Just a suggestion, be safe.
Post the color code of the 4 vacant wires, I'll compare them to what I have.
-
It is possible that you wired your coin in switch backwards. Not all of them have the same pinouts. I have also done this before, only to discover that I did it wrong. Your switch should be stamped or marked with Common, NC and NO. Go back and verify that your old switch is marked the same as your new switch. A common problem, most of us assume the switches are all the same. Not so.
-
Thanks guys, coil works fine when jumpered to common. And double checked coin input switch, all good with no and nc.
The colours that don't match are shown in photo. Those that match both sides are listed below. I will update with the colour codes for the machine side shortly.
HOPPER 30 PIN (Hopper Side)
1 2 3 | | |
4 5 6 | x |
7 8 9 | | |
10 11 12 | | |
13 14 15 | | |
16 17 18 | | |
19 20 21 | | |
22 23 24 | | |
25 26 27 | x |
28 29 30 | | |
1 - Blue\Yellow
2 - Red\White
3 - Red\Yellow
4 - Yellow
5 - NC
6 - Blue\Orange
7 - Green\Red
8 - Green
9 - Yellow\Brown
10 - Green\Black
11 - Green\White
12 - Green\Yellow
13 - White\Green
14 - White\Red
15 - White
16 -
17 - Brown\Yellow
18 -
19 - Orange\Black
20 -
21 - Orange
22 -
23 -
24 -
25 -
26 - NC
27 -
28 -
29 -
30 -
-
Even though you have the newer plugs and sockets installed, there might be a weak pin connection.
Try this with the machine on and warned up. Activate the coin switch, then apply some movement to the hopper in all directions. From side to side within the guide track limits. Also in and out about 1/8 of an inch.
Listening for any sounds of activity at the handle release coil. This unconventional method can also be applied to the reel mechanism as well.
On a few occasions after maintenance on a machine, and then reinstalling these units the handle release or the lights will not be working due to a poor pin connection.
-
OK well the next problem was the reel mech.
I started tracing circuits following a couple of schematics i have now and yep nothing matched up. Non matching colours on both sides of the reel harness plugs - wires crossed everywhere. Boy did I get lucky to not blow anything when i powered it on. I have almost finished re-wiring the loom to match both sides.
Back with an update again soon.
The hopper, reel and artwork match - but the machine housing is certainly different. Perhaps someone has been sneaky and re-plated another machine and swapped guts + artwork - only to realise the hopper wasn't going to fit in... It would explain a hell of a lot.. No way was this machine going to work even with the correct hopper.
-
This switch has been removed from the harness both ends. (Yellow/Brown and Brown/Red wires)
The front switch is NO and connects to the payout counter reset coil.
The rear switch i am pointing to is NC. First step of payout disk and they both toggle.
Yellow/Brown used to run up to the reel mech but it had been left disconnected from the rear of the cinch plug, with no obvious partner on the other side (all wires are accounted for).
Brown/Red is one of the 4 wires from the hopper that have no match on the machine side to wire too.
Would anyone know what this might have been used for?
-
Are there numeric counters/meters located under the reels at the front of the reel mechanism? These wires might of be used for the purpose of counting coins in, out and drop box.
I'll take a look at the 1090 machine In the morning to compare the wire color use.
Have you tried setting up a payout to see what happens?
-
Haven't had a chance to open up a machine yet, but did attach some photos that might help.
-
Thanks David, those schematics might be just what i needed.
How does Double Jackpot Time work ? I suspect if you hit the jackpot it lets you take a second spin before paying out perhaps?
The plaque on the machine says:
"Double Jackpot Time"
3 Triple lamp = 20 Bonus
2 Double lamp = 10 Bonus
All Pays on Win Line
-
You'll have to check with Mr. Reno on the double jackpot bonus. From what you discribed, when this feature is lite up there is a bonus involved.
Haven't had a chance to physically trace out 61 and 36 wires.
Hope you make some progress, keep us posted.
-
I am not sure if this feature was originally installed on this machine or if someone has added it at a later stage. From what I can see there is no feature to light up that indicates you are playing a second jackpot...
Lots of time spent on this machine over the weekend. Really all i need now is to find out a bit more about the above feature. Very close to getting this guy operational i suspect.
-
Okay, went back to the photo of your machine.
The little engraved sign double bonus time was as you said added on later.
I wouldn't be concerned about that at this time. Most likely the machine was modified to multiple the payout on the 3 and 2 lamp payoffs.
-
Well this is where I am at..
Any ideas where I should wire the handle release coil to (RHS Pin 10 Machine Side)?
-
Hi All,
Got the remaining wires connected and the machine is working fine now. Only remaining problem is the payouts being mixed up and no jackpot bell.
So I have started drawing out a schema for the paydisks (attached). Hopefully this thread might just help someone out in the future.
Regarding the Double Jackpot Feature, this was something the venue offered. So the operator would yell out "Double Jackpot Time" and for the duration of that time if you hit a jackpot feature the operator would pay out the extra bonus (not the machine). So that makes it easy.
Thanks again
-
The original Hey hey hey, it's double jackpot time was one of Karl Bergie's brainstorms. He owned the Silver Club in Sparks way back whenever, and he was a real promoter. He used to give out chips, and do other whacky stuff. I think gorilla suits, too. I worked for Silver a couple of times after he lost the club (hi interest rates caused his failure when he took out some loans).
You need to tell us just what pays correctly and what does not pay.
One of the duties of a slot mechanic was to check ALL pays before putting machine of floor. You can diagnose a lot by doing this and finding out what works and what doesn't. Go through them all, and if it starts to pay, then coin it and go to the next pay. You know that the signal is getting from reels to hopper. You can do final counts later after you see what pays and what does not.
-
The problem only appears to be with the symbols. So what is the 50, 100 and 200 pays via the Bars Match Relay.
-
Are all the symbols payouts mixed up? Like Reno mentioned, set up the pays and see if they pay correctly. Or trace them out. The signal leaves the reel contact board and makes its way to to the payout set up unit. As you know. There are quite a few soldering joints in between the reels and the payout unit. There could be a couple of wires on the wrong beau plug lugs. As careful as one can be it happens sometimes.
Glad you have the machine running. This is an interesting situation, keep us informed.
-
Hey All,
So I have everything working apart from the 50 payout now. The hopper payout board has a 50 terminal and a 50 CO terminal. Currently it's paying out 200 coins for whatever reason when you hit single symbols on the bars match (should be 50). I read Old Reno's post about this 50CO being for getting a better count on 50 coin payout but not sure on wiring just yet. It will become evident soon.
Bell not working was a dirty contact on the payout relay and a wiring miss-configuration.
The bell runs for the duration of the jackpot payout which is a bit much for my liking. I can build in a timer circuit to shut it down after 5 seconds - jon made the suggestion to silence the bell via a plastic cap on the ringing mechanism; which i did, but still it's a bit more than I personally like. 200 coin payout takes a decent amount of time, the bell ringing for the entire is rather annoying.
Is there an alternative wiring I can use on the bell without adapting in timer units ?
-
Try using an insulator between the the 200 payout board contact and the copper fingers on the payout step up unit. Same with the 50 payout as a way to narrow down the problem. As for the 6 volt bell, they can be annoying, specially with the door open. I haven't tried this yet, but was thinking of making a metal box to cover the front and two sides of the bell and attaching it with some wood screws. Or squeezing some foam rubber behind the bell.
By the way you've done a great job bringing this machine back to life!
-
How is your machine doing?
-
Long time between replies.
Machine has had a complete tear-down and restore... All the chrome parts on front door are too far gone and need to be replaced, I always knew this was going to be an issue but went ahead regardless.
So question is, where can I get good condition chrome replacement parts for this machine; years ago you used to see the occasional item pop up on eBay - but not so much lately.
Can anyone help me out? I am happy to trade parts from this machine (+ cash) to anyone who maybe able to help me out.
Thanks
-
Got this piece, it might clean up okay.
It’s 21 inches across.
-
Got this piece, it might clean up okay.
It’s 21 inches across.
Here is a close up.