New Life Games LLC
**Video Poker, Keno, Slots, 21** Gaming machines => IGT PE and PE Plus Poker Games => Topic started by: ghostassassin on February 07, 2016, 09:11:18 PM
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Hi everyone
First of all thanks to all the people that have given so much advice to this site, I have spent hours reading posts and trying to get information on my PE+ game.
In saying that, I am far from being an expert on electronic poker machines and have only ever rebuilt/repaired a few mechanical ones. I have recently bought a Players Edge Draw poker machine and thought I would make a nice addition to my collection. I do only buy machines that I know are not working and spend months and huge dollars stripping and rebuild them back to original (I do not paint or gloss them up cosmetically only the mechanicals) as it’s a hobby and love the workings.
Ok here is my problem, I have a PE+ poker machine that is currently not working “the screen does not light up†but in saying that when I turn off the power it gets a flat white line flash across the screen and if I put the back of my hand on the screen I can feel the static on the screen.
I have notice that the battery is dead flat (tested with Muliti meter) could the battery be the problem? Or what else should I check?
I have already check the fuses and all the cable connections ( to the best of my ability)
Is there a quick test for the monitor or PCB board? That anyone can help me out on.
I ahve also notice that candle is flashing fast on the top and slower on the bottom (Not sure if thats a sign of anything)
Thanks
Jim
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Welcome to NLG, glad to see you here!
I'm not an expert on these machines but the static feeling on the back on your hand is a good sign, I think it means the high voltage power supply on the video monitor board is probably working. This could point to something wrong on your mpu board not sending the video drive signals to the monitor. I don't think a bad battery will cause the screen to go blank, it usually causes a fault message saying something like "Call attendant" to show on the screen.
I would pull the mpu board out of the machine and carefully look it over, make sure the old battery has not leaked and caused damage to the board. Look at the pins on the mpu board edge connectors and make sure none are bent over. If you have another similar machine you can swap in another mpu to see if that fixes it. Also there may be some voltages made by the power supply that are used by the mpu board for display drive signals. Do you have another similar machine that you can borrow parts from for troubleshooting?
There is a white "Test" or diagnostic pushbutton inside the machine. When you press it the screen will cycle thru different displays (on a working machine), some of the tests will show test patterns on the screen to check the monitor display, such as primary color drive level (red, green, blue), convergence and other display stuff. But if your display is blank you may not see anything on the screen when pressing the white button.
Also inside the machine, usually near the crt, is a set of adjustment pots. One of them should be for brightness. You can try moving it slightly left or right in case it has a bad wiper arm and isn't making good connection. Notice where it is set before you mess with it so you can put it back there if moving it doesn't help. If you turn the brightness up enough to get a white or gray raster, maybe with retrace lines in the display, that could mean the crt and high voltage are ok, and the problem is lack of video drive signals. I think they originate on the mpu board and then get sent to the monitor board.
Keep in mind that around the crt and its circuit board there are high voltages, so be careful when reaching in and touching things there. I'm not exactly sure, but there's probably around 12,000 volts in some areas and that voltage can still be there even if the machine is turned off and unplugged due to storage ability of the crt itself, like a giant capacitor.
Just to make sure we don't accidentally go down the wrong road, can you post a photo of your machine or mpu board so we can be sure it is a PE+ ? I'm sure you are right about it being a PE+, but there are other similar machines and we sometimes waste time with advice and suggestions, then find out we are talking about a different model of machine.
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Hi rokgpsman
Thanks for replying, I have read a lot of your post already.
Please see attached photos of the poker machine I hope you can make some sence of them, as I siad I am not a electronic guy at all.
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Main Board
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Screen
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Thanks for the photos, it does look like a PE+ to me but the others here will confirm it when they get a chance. Since the machine has an embedded bill validator (paper money acceptor) and the main board (called an "mpu") has white edge connectors that plug into a backplane (motherboard) on the back wall of the machine that tells me it is a PE+ model. But as I said earlier I'm not expert.
Your mpu board looks clean in the battery area from what I can see. I've noted on your photo below that the round blue adjustment pot near the mpu battery is the sound volume control, you probably already knew this but just in case. On the PE+ models the eight-position blue dipswitch is not used, the settings are done in software by use of the white Test/Diag pushbutton switch, except for dipswitch #1 which is used to select the power input line voltage frequency, choice of 60 hz or 50 hz.
The 7 chips on the mpu that have a sticker label on them are your game eproms. They contain whatever game software your machine has.
From looking at the coin comparitor it appears this machine was or is in use in Australia, is that where you are now? The only real difference as far as I know is the input voltage will be 220 vac instead of the 115 vac we use in US. The main power transformer can be strapped so it will work with either line voltage.
On the mpu tray there is a power transformer connected to the mpu, you can check the connector for burned spots on the plastic housing which would indicate a bad connection. The output of that transformer should be 16 vac measured at connector J3 from pins (contacts) 3 to 4 with meter. The transformer input voltage is 24 vac measured at J3 from pins 5 to 6. The 16 vac is sent over to U7 to make the 5 vdc that the mpu uses to power most of it chips. This 5 vdc can be measured at mpu test point 3.
Even though the display does not appear can you hear sounds as if the game is running? Do the player button lights come on and make a sound if you press them? Do you have a way to confirm the power supply voltages are ok and getting to the mpu board? Do you have another similar machine that you can swap mpu boards?
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Hi
Yes the board is very clean and I can not see and damage from the battery or from and other issues. Yes I am in Australia and that alone makes things a little more difficult as the gaming industry here is very tight and getting parts and information is tough.
I will test the voltage when I get home from work tonight and could have something to report tomorrow. There is no sound or lights on the buttons but I did not know the "blue" dial was for the sound so will play with that tonight as well as the screen adjusters.
One thing did strike me was the very loud mumming/buzzing form the transformer. The main game lights come on and work but do not thik that is anything speical as its basicly hard wired anyway.
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Your machine looks very clean, do you know anything about its history? Did the previous owner indicate it had worked recently or anything that might give a clue?
Just to confirm, my info says that Australia uses 50 Hz power, is that right? The reason I ask is that I think dipswitch #1 should be set to ON for 50 Hz power, and set to OFF for 60 Hz. In your photo it looks like all of the dipswitches are OFF. Someone here will correct me if I am remembering this wrong. You could try changing dipswitch #1 to ON, then switch on the machine for a brief time to see if it makes any difference on the display. Just a thought.
I think a certain amount of hum is normal for the main power transformer, but not excessive. After it has been on for a while you can turn off the machine AND unplug it, then feel the transformer to see if it is overly hot. I didn't see any signs of overheating or oozing of the transformer wax running out, you can check more closely. But the main transformers rarely cause a problem unless someone has rewired them wrong. If you know that the machine was in use in Australia and working ok at one time before you got it then it is likely wired ok (instead of being imported from USA and never being restrapped for 220 vac power). This is all probably all ok since you said the general illumination lighting works ok, and you are right, they are connected more or less directly to the input power. But if the humming is overly loud compared to other machines you are familiar with then this might be something to run down.
One last thought, sometimes the fuses are ok but the fuseholder cap itself is a problem. They can become worn or cracked and not fit to the top of the fuse tightly.
I'm ready for some snooze time, it is about 2:30am here. I'll check back when I can and others here will be responding shortly, hopefully someone can add an idea or two.
Below is a photo of a similar PE+ machine (I think) with some notes in case they are helpful. However, I've read that the mpu can be mounted in different locations on Player's Edge machines. And IGT may have used different vendor monitors over time, so your monitor adjustment pots may not be in the same place as the photo.
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Hi
Yes in Australia we have 50Hz on our equipment, I was not able to test much last night as when I got home the misses has loads of other things for me to do. But I did manage to check the transformer and it came up ok. I did play around with the sound dial and could not hear any sound or noise. Unforgently I do not have a second machine that I can use for a test as this is my first full electronic machine. I will try the #1 dip switch when I gety home this afternoon, and will also check the little transformer on the "mpu" board.
You say to check the power "On the mpu tray there is a power transformer connected to the mpu, you can check the connector for burned spots on the plastic housing which would indicate a bad connection. The output of that transformer should be 16 vac measured at connector J3 from pins (contacts) 3 to 4 with meter. The transformer input voltage is 24 vac measured at J3 from pins 5 to 6. The 16 vac is sent over to U7 to make the 5 vdc that the mpu uses to power most of it chips. This 5 vdc can be measured at mpu test point 3."Do you by some chance a photo or drawing of J3 conector and the 3 to 4 (16vac) and the J3 conector to the 5 to 6 (24vac) and the U7 to test point 3 (5vac). As I have no idea where the test points are.
Thanks Jim
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Below is your mpu photo with notes about where the voltages can be checked. I'd check the 5vdc first, if it is ok then the upstream voltages are most like likely ok.
The transformer connects to mpu board J3. It is a 6 pin connector with pin 1 empty. The transformer input power is 24 vac applied to J3 pins 5 & 6. There is a black wire on pin 6 and a white wire on pin 5. You might be able to push your meter leads into J3 connector housing enough to touch the contacts to get a reading. Or if the other voltages listed below (like the 5 vdc) are ok then you can assume the transformer voltages are ok.
The output of the transformer is connected to J3 pins 2,3,4. J3 pin 2 is ground but it is an isolated ground, can't be used as a dc ground. Pins 3 and 4 should have 16 vac or a little higher when measured between them. This voltage can also be measured on the anodes of nearby diodes CR31 and CR32 if that is easier to get to. These 2 diodes rectify the 16 vac and change it to approx 10.5 vdc which can be measured at the band end of either CR31 or CR32, with the black meter lead on a dc ground reference, the mpu metal tray will probably work. This 10.5 vdc is sent to U7 which regulates it to 5 vdc for use by all the ic's on the mpu board.
The 5 vdc test point is a pad located near one end of C11 and close to the band end of diode D2. Be careful if probing here, things are close and you don't want you meter lead to slip and short something. You also should be able to measure the 5 vdc on any of the power pins of ic's on the board. The power pin is usually the highest numbered pin on an eprom or processor ic. I've noted one of the large ic's (U57) and where you can check the 5 vdc.
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The first thing I would check is the fuses.
The give away is that you don't have any other lights.
The power supply has 4 or 5 of them.
You simply take the fuse out and check it with a multi-meter if you have continuity its good.
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He mentioned in his original post that he had checked all the fuses but maybe he missed one.
Jim- just to double-check, there are 3 fuses in the machine you should check:
F1 is on the 24vac power line.
F2 is on the 7vac power line.
F3 is on the 115/220 vac power line.
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Thanks guys, I will doubble check the fuses tonight when I get home from work. And thanks for the photo and the testing points I will also check that out as well and give you some feed back in the mornig.
Jim
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Hi Guys
I rechecked the fuses and they all came up good I payed speical attention to see if I could see any cracks in the tops and they also looked ok. I removed the whole main power transformer to check the voltage comming out, (In doing so I found 2x 1/2 sliver dollars and 1x 1/4 dollar coin stuck behind the transformer I guess this could have been the reason for the extra lound transformer.) So in checking I was only able to find 1 socket that has 24vac and I think it goes to the cooler fan, This fan also is not working but I am unsure if it is controled by sensor or is ment to run constently?????
Is there a test procedure or what sockets points to check to ensure I am testing the socket correctly, I would like to know that I have 24vac comming out of the main socket to the mpu before I start playing around with the smaller transformer. I did remove the smaller tansformer but only to inspect it.
Thanks
Jim
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I would check the fuses with a multimeter for continuity. A visual check may not show a faulty fuse (yes I have been burnt by this).
.... if your checking voltages I am sure you have one.
The connector I would be most concerned about is the one that goes to the motherboard. The mother board is the small board that the MPU (removeable board with the transformer) plugs into. Looked for scorched or damaged pins - perhaps shine them up with a white eraser.
I have attached an electronic repair manual that has many voltages etc. PE+ starts about page 75
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Hi Jay
Thank you for the manual, I did test the fusses with a multimeter and it can up good. I also found the 24vac socket and have power there, I will test the little transformer next and see if I am getting the correct volts out of that first before I start testing the board.
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did you check the battery voltage? if its bad ,replace the battery. now fire up the machine, press and hold the white test button, see if you here a ding, if you do , close the door and latch, turn the jackpot reset key one time, this in theory should have cleared the bad battery and put the game in a play mode. try and put credits on the machine using the small white push button mounted on the optic board. if the board is good, you should be able to play the game, even if nothing is displayed on the screen. if you can get the game to play , then your problem is with the 1492 chassis, you will have to have it repaired.
Hope this helps
Jim
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Each time I get a machine, I use this before I power it up, and look behind everything I can't see.
Frequently, coins gets stuck behind little things, like mother boards!
And it's fun to find money too.
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Hi Jim and shortrackskater
Yes I tested the battery and it is deffently dead, I have not soldered the new one in yet because I wanted to make sure all the power is getting to the right places first. But I will take your advice and solder it in when I get home tonight and do as you have surgested and see if that fixes the issue. Just one question the 1492 chassis what is that? Is it the smaller mother board that mpu plugs into? Do you have a picture by some chance as I am more of a visual guy......
Thanks
Jim
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Just one question the 1492 chassis what is that? Is it the smaller mother board that mpu plugs into?
Nope, the two boards that belong to the machine are the MPU board (the removable board with the EPROM chips and battery) and the motherboard, which is the fixed board in the machine which the MPU board plugs into.
The 1492 chassis is the circuit board for the Ceronix monitor assembly, which looks similar to this:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F264qmmb.jpg&hash=08aab1532171c1746ec1b8c49513b073e41eecab)
For the record, I believe there's a problem with your monitor -- based on what you said in your first post about the candle flashing, I think the machine is working okay, but you're not seeing anything on the monitor due to a problem with it. It's either the connection between the motherboard and the monitor chassis, or a problem with the monitor chassis and/or screen.
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.....So in checking I was only able to find 1 socket that has 24vac and I think it goes to the cooler fan, This fan also is not working but I am unsure if it is controled by sensor or is ment to run constently?????
I think the cooling fan is made and wired to run continuously when the machine is turned on, there is not a sensor that turns it on or off. But it's ok if the fan does not work or is disconnected, in a home environment your machine won't over heat and you might appreciate the lowered noise level with the fan off.
If you do want to have the fan working you can check it to see if the blades will spin easily when you turn them with your finger (power off to the machine). They are low torque fans and it doesn't take much to keep them from spinning. Sometimes the fan gets gunked up with dirt and grime from dust and casino cigarette smoke over the years. There is usually a round sticker over the hub in the center of the fan, you can pull it off and clean the fan axle and bearing, then lightly oil it to see if you can get it working again. If not the fan can be replaced, just note the size of the fan and its voltage (written on the hub sticker) to order another one.
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The fan type are 2 wire 80mm 24v not the 12v that are common for PC case fans. I have no connection with the seller but here is an eBay auction of what you're looking for:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121885114605 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121885114605)
Hope that helps.
BrianT
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The fan type are 2 wire 80mm 24v not the 12v that are common for PC case fans. I have no connection with the seller but here is an eBay auction of what you're looking for:
[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/121885114605[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/121885114605[/url])
Hope that helps.
BrianT
Thanks Brian!
just want to add,
that ebay seller is Spin Inc,
they are a reliable source of slot parts.
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The reel question. Is the part bad or is it not getting power.
It would be best to try and connect your fan to a known good 24v source to test.
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The reel question. Is the part bad or is it not getting power.
It would be best to try and connect your fan to a known good 24v source to test.
Or measure the power connected to the fan with a meter and see if it is 24v.
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Hi
Ok a little more progress development. I did as surgested and replaced the battery (and checked the battery is the right way around), held the white test button in heard a "dong" sound and the candle lights went off, the little play buttons on the front lit up for the fist time. I shut the door and then used the reset the key. and still nothing I can not hear any noise or see anything on the screen. I did try to add tokins but they fell streight through. I did notice two extra cables not going anywhere on the screen chassie and can not find any empty slots on the PCB. Has anyone any ideas?
Thanks
Jim
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The ding says your working. :cool_thumb_up:
This is major progress.
The major concern about bad power supply or dead mpu is behind us.
There is likely some error that is preventing the game from playing.
You can deal with this later once you get an image on the screen.
You mentioned before you get static when touching the screen so it is likely a connection issue.
I defer to Kevin's post
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Hi Jay
Yeah I was very impressed when all the little button lights came on for the firts time, and thought its working, but some more testing to go yet......Love this hobbie gives a good sence of acheivement.
Yes I feel static on the screen and get a white line flash up on the screen when I shut her down. I will check the conections going to the CRT and from the mother board when I get home tonight. I will try and get some photos of teh CRT and what I am testing. As I said there is 2 cables floating around (not conected to any scokets) on the CRT main board I will try to get some Photos of them, they may be someting and may be not.
Thanks
Jim
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I was rereading the thread, noticed that your photo of the coins you found inside the machine are American coins, a Kennedy half dollar and a quarter, even though the machine is located in Australia. Do you think the machine was formerly on a US military base there in Australia and accepted US coins then, or it was imported some time ago from USA and these coins have been in there for years? If the machine was in an Australian casino and American tourists tried inserting US coins I'd think they would have been rejected back to the coin tray on the front, not dropped inside the machine. An interesting finding.
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Hi Yes the machine did come from the good old USA as for how it come to Australia I do not know. I would be surprised that the Australian gaming commision would allow the military to improt a poker machine into Australia but in saying that if you set your mind to it you can make it happen. I woud more say it came over when someone imigrated here and it was in there house hold goods and slipped through the costums cracks.
I bought it from a guy who says he does not know the history, the front on the machine has the name of the casino on a sticker I will look tonight. The coins are usless to me so if you want them they are yours, proberly cost more to send them than they are worth.....
Thanks
Jim
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If you're seeing a white line collapse when you turn it off then you are getting high voltage and the filiments in the neck of the tube are lighting. There's a pair of adjustment knobs on the flyback, big transformer with a heavy wire going to a cup on the picture tube. One is screen, or brightness, and the other is focus. You can turn the screen control up to see if the whole picture gets bright or not. Whether it's actually getting video or not won't matter. You do this just to make sure you have full vertical and horizontal spread on the screen and rule out a problem in the vertical circuit. A straight line across the middle would indicate a vertical circuit issue. The fact that you have static on the screen and can see the line when you shut it off proves the horizontal circuit is working. If all this checks out then you likely aren't getting video feed from the MPU to the CRT modual
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Hi Yes the machine did come from the good old USA as for how it come to Australia I do not know. I would be surprised that the Australian gaming commision would allow the military to improt a poker machine into Australia but in saying that if you set your mind to it you can make it happen. I woud more say it came over when someone imigrated here and it was in there house hold goods and slipped through the costums cracks.
I bought it from a guy who says he does not know the history, the front on the machine has the name of the casino on a sticker I will look tonight. The coins are usless to me so if you want them they are yours, proberly cost more to send them than they are worth.....
Thanks
Jim
Thanks for the offer, but as you say the postage would likely cancel the value. Most larger cities have banks that can do currency conversion, if you are a customer they may not charge for this since it is a small amount but I'm not familiar with how Australian banks operate. American tourists probably exchange their US money somewhere there, like at the hotel or elsewhere, you might get it changed there, or work out something with a visiting US tourist. When I was in Italy they had small Cambio shops all over, you could exchange US money for Italian currency easily and vice versa, although it wasn't the best exchange rate.
May not be worth much trouble, not sure what $1.25 USD would get you there, maybe a coffee and a pastry?
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Most banks won't exchange foreign coins.
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Hi Guys
Sorry for the time delay, looks like work has blocked the site but did manage to get back in. Ok I have tested all the power and looking like thge fault is in the CRT board. Is their any test I can do to help me find a fault. I have not done much in the way of testing CRTs before. Is their anyone in Australia that can fix/repair or does anyone one have one for sale that is working? I have read a few post saying that you can buy or mod a LCD computer screen to work does anyone know if that is possiable? and if so how to do it.
Thanks
Jim
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How about trying my earlier post that got stepped on with the thing about the coins? I fixed TV's for almost 20 years and you have to take steps to narrow problems down. Start there...
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The PE+ uses inverted video (and no this is not the start of a joke about auz). To date no one seems to have found an inexpensive way to mod a regular LCD. Happ and Certronix both have LCD drop ins.
You can google both those companies and see if they have local offices. Alternatively someone who does TV repair might be of assistance.
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I have read a few post saying that you can buy or mod a LCD computer screen to work does anyone know if that is possiable? and if so how to do it.
There's a sticky thread right here near the top of the PE+ section that has step-by-step instructions on how to convert the video to use a standard VGA LCD monitor. It requires some parts and a bit of electronics savvy, but it can be done.
Here's a direct link: http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=336.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=336.0)
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Hi CowboyGames I will give your surgestion a shot when I get home tonight and give feed back tomorrow. To be honset I was a bit worred about sticking my hands in there with all the horror stories you hear about CRT repairs and high voltage.
Thanks Jim
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Respect it like you would any live circuit board. The 25k volts coming from the flyback is harmless unless you start messing with the anode lead where it goes into the picture tube
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Hi guys
Well some big developments, turned the game on and heard a bang/crackle. So I removed the monster again and looked for the where the noise came from.
I found a burnt mark that was not there before. Can anyone let me know if it is at all repairable or I should just look for another one.
Thanks
Jim
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That's unfortunate...
At this point I would start looking for someone with a good working board. It will be a lot of work to locate and replace the bad parts plus making sure all carbon residue is cleaned from the board so nothing shorts out again. You also don't know at this point if the damage is the origional cause of your issue or a victim of a different problem. It's not often you see resistors blow up like that
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at this point you have two options: try and find a repaired chassis or replace the tube and chassis with a factory LCD. I know its a lot of money ,but if you intend to keep the machine you would be better off going that route. with the new battery, and a new LCD, you should get many years of enjoyment from the machine. Crt tubes are hard to come by, getting the chassis repaired is not difficult, however, I don't know how long Ceronix will continue to repair these chassis? Last time I sent in chassis for repair Lisa told me they were out of subs. meaning if the chassis you sent in was not repairable, they would send you a substitute repaired chassis. Call them and find out the story.
Hope this helps.
Jim
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Hi Guys
Ok will do that, I do plan on keeping the machine and as I orignaly said I do this as a hobby and chacing up information and parts is all apart of the fun. If you know or hear of anyone selling either a LCD or CRT chassie please let me know more so if its in Australia. I will start to hunt one down on all the usual sites.
I would like to thank all the people that spent time in giving me information and help on this. when its up and going in will let you all know.
Thanks
Jim