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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: Lake Dude on April 16, 2022, 11:05:50 AM
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Just picked up a Bally EM 3- coin, one line, dollar slot. Previous owner said it was blowing fuses.
There are 4 fuse holders. 2x 5A are for AC in, one 10A is for for solenoid circuit and the last is 15A. Are these the correct values?
As for finding the short, I deposit a coin, the handle lock solenoid pulls in tailgating the handle. I pull the handle (lose/win same results) and when the reels settle, it no longer accepts coins and eventually blows the door solenoid fuse. I notice the transformer getting very hot to the point of overheating. I've pulled the hopper, the reel deck, checked for obvious pinches or shorts and the lighting sockets for shorts to the chassis.
I'd send machine part info but, don't know how to tell.
Call anyone help me with a different perspective?
TIA
Topic moved to Bally Electromechanical
~moderator
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there should be a model/serial number plate on the cabinet below the handle.
if it's gone, look for numbers written on the reel unit and hopper. Typical 3 coin $1 machines were the 1088, 1089, 1090, and 1091.
a picture of the entire front of the machine would help identify it.
the fuse values should be on a piece of paper near the fuses. The usual thing was 15A for the 6V circuit and 5A everywhere else.
is the coin relay (left side of hopper) and the handle release relay getting reset when pull the handle and the spin completes?
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Inspect the coin in relay/ switches for continuity.
Do this manually in the latched and unlatched positions.
Separate from that.
Possibly there’s a wire crossed and or a switch that stays in the wrong position.
Posting high quality photos helps in finding problems.
A photo of the coin in relay could be helpful.
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Thank you for weighing in on my issue!
Boy, do I feel stupid. I looked everywhere inside the machine, but not under the handle. It is a 1088. Apparently, it was a training machine.
In an effort to redeem my stupidity. I stated unplugging connectors until the current draw went away. Turns out when I unplugged the 12 pin molex connector just above the bottom left hinge it went to normal. Knowing that it controls the solenoids on the door, I started with what I think is an interlock and removed one of its leads. I removed the white wire with the black tracer and it stopped blowing fuses.
So, here is where I'm at currently. It does not register when a coin is dropped or the switch activated. If I manually operate the handle solenoid, it works, I can pull the handle and it pays out according to the single coin table.
I'm left trying to figure out why it won't register coins.
As an aside, it was not paying correctly, until I disassembled the hopper and cleaned and lubed it well. Now, that is correct.
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just a 1088, or a 1088-something? The top number on the plate is the model number.
the first coin trips the coin relay on the left side of the reel mech, and that in turn trips the handle release relay.
The next two coins step up the coin unit which is inside the top compartment.
if you're a schematic reader, the paperwork for some 1088 models in on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/
first step is getting the coin relay to trip ... got a voltemter?
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Thanks for your reply!
Under the handle is a metal tag with 2 lines. First just days "1088" the second days "1088-####" which I thought was a serial number. I can get that code if it helps?
Based upon your previous suggestion, I poked around a little. I found if I manually set the solenoid on the left side of the reel deck, when inserted it will trip the handle coil. It still will not register any coins that trip the switch. Payout is still based on the single coin payout.
I measured the resistance (yes, I have a DVM) and got 48 Ohms +/-.
I did stop the fuse from blowing by pulling the white wire with what I believe is black tracer (though could be blue) as I have a tough time with colors. I attached a photo, but it was from the 12 pin connector just above the bottom hinge.
I can read the schematics of an average circuit board, but am EM schematic presents difficulties.
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1088 is good ... that's the first machine of the series.
the wire you took out of the connector is 58-4 (see the schematic for plug charts ... the schem is the w-1046-1828... file in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1088/
58 is the color code for white/black, and the -4 means it's the 5th time that color wire was used in the machine. 58, 58-1, etc. all look the same, but aren't connected together.
so ya hunt around the schem for 58-4 ... and it's not there. Oops. There is a 58-3 which is in the circuit to the coin scavenger coil, and that's on the front door so it's a good bet that's the wire you disconnected.
afaik, the scavenger coil is hanging off the right side of the coin mech bracket. Part #59 on page 83 of the bally 2400 manual (https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/)
when you push the coin reject button next to the coin entry chute on a scavenger game, it closes a switch and powers the scavenger coil. Most games the reject button mechanically operated the mech to reject coins.
the game powers the scavenger coil at other times so when the game isn't ready to accept a coin, it will dump back to the tray.
to get your game to accept coins, you need the coil plunger to be out of the coil If the coil is fried, the plunger may be stuck.
the coil part number is CD-29-1600 if it is shot. Should be around 28.5 ohms.
oops ... 58-4 is on the terminal strip for the electronic door lock coil.
the coin relay should not trip until the coin switch tripwire is pushed down. On the tripwire switch, the yellow wire is common and should connect to the orange/green wire (74-1) when the tripwire is up, and to blue/yellow wire 23-1 when the tripwire is depressed.
is the tripwire stuck down?
got a pic of the entire inside of the front door?
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Hi Wolftalk,
Thank you for the very helpful info.
As if it wasn't confusing enough, they use the same color wire multiple times! I'm glad you brought that up, as I would have assumed they were all the same. That would have been messy.
So, this scavenger cool strangely enough has a momentary ON push button someone installed at the top right of the cabinet. When I push it, it energizes the scavenger relay, which AFAIK seems to be operating correctly, mechanically. I wondered why would someone go through the bother of installing this button when the coin return button works fine... I assumed it was something to do with it being a training machine.
You are correct, the club relay is not tripping when the trip wire is activated. The wire is not stuck and I hear a distinct "click" when I press it with my fingers. I manually activated the coin relay by depressing the "paddle" and it locked into position. I can't reach it when the reel assembly is in, but when I reinsert it, the handle solenoid activates.
When I first got the machine, it was taking a hiatus on blowing fuses, and the coin in part was working correctly. Since the fuse blowing began again, and I took out the 58-4 wire, coins stopped working. I'm going to try and trace that wire again, this morning. I thought it connected to what I call an interlock on the door. It seems to push a rod into the door latch to prevent it from operating. What ever that wire goes to, I'm fairly certain that is the cause of the fuses blowing, as the machine has been powered on since Friday night, with no blown fuses.
I've attached a photo of the inside of the door. I tried using a flash, but it washed out the wire colors. I've also had to lower the resolution to get it to upload because of the size.
Again, thanks so much for your help. I'd be lost like a golf ball in tall grass without it
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After all that, the picture didn't go...
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Since the fuse blowing began again, and I took out the 58-4 wire, coins stopped working. I'm going to try and trace that wire again, this morning. I thought it connected to what I call an interlock on the door. It seems to push a rod into the door latch to prevent it from operating.
and there is wire 58-4 on the schem. It's on the terminal strip and connects the electronic door lock coil.
either your door lock coil is bad, or there's a short on the wiring.
the momentary switch could be the reset button sw. Got yellow (30) and grey/orange (97) wires on it?
the scavenger coil powering could be a side effect of the payout relay powering if that is the reset button.
the 50VAC power wire is wire 70 ... solid orange. You'll see it on lots of coils. Stick a voltmeter probe on that and poke the coin switch terminals with the other probe. You should not see 50V on 23-1 unless the tripwire is down.
if you want to send highest possible resolution pics to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them to the info with the game paperwork. Stuff like:
- entire front of game
- the door pic
- inside cabinet
- reel mech all sides
- hopper
- insert inside top compartment from various angles so the parts on it can be seen.
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Working on it now. Will send shortly. Thank you! :thank_you:
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Bit of trouble with my email sending so many large photos, even broken into several emails. Here's a share to all of them: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1J44LYN0bhJDI9crbN3DGr_LTnFqh-wY3
Let me know when I can delete the photos.
More looking around today. Found a melted coil in the upper cabinet. Near as I can tell, it keeps track of how many coins are deposited. The mechanism was frozen solid, as the plumber could not advance the nylon wheel. Manually advancing the wheel advanced the coin in payout table. Still do not have the coin switch functioning. I found two wires (orange with white trace and green with white trace) buried under the coin mechanism that look to be unused. Perhaps for a payout meter?
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Bit of trouble with my email sending so many large photos, even broken into several emails. Here's a share to all of them: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1J44LYN0bhJDI9crbN3DGr_LTnFqh-wY3
Let me know when I can delete the photos.
More looking around today. Found a melted coil in the upper cabinet. Near as I can tell, it keeps track of how many coins are deposited. The mechanism was frozen solid, as the plumber could not advance the nylon wheel. Manually advancing the wheel advanced the coin in payout table. Still do not have the coin switch functioning. I found two wires (orange with white trace and green with white trace) buried under the coin mechanism that look to be unused. Perhaps for a payout meter?
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the pics came thru on email ... but your right that sticking stuff on a cloud drive is probably easier. I don't have small limits on incoming file sizes, but some sending mail services might. Pics + others of a 1088 are on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1088/pics/
fried coil is the step-up coil on the coin unit. First coin should trip coin relay and handle release relays and reset the coin unit. Reset position = 1 coin played. The next two coins should step up the coin unit once per coin. At 2nd/top step, the scavenger coil powers to reject coins. The coin switch is still not tripping the coin relay? If no, you can briefly jumper/short the yellow and blue/yellow wires on the coin switch and the coin relay should trip. If it does, the coil switch is bad or the coin is not pushing down the tripwire far enough.
if the coin switch isn't working and you can't source a replacement easily, sometimes you can squirt a solvent like electrical parts cleaner/mass airflow sensor cleaner into the microswitch and shake it around to clean the contacts. Good idea to shake it out and give it time to evaporate tho. May be easier to drill out the rivets, clean it up and use whatever to hold the case halves together again. The mounting screws will hold it together, so you just need it to not fall apart until mounted.
there's youtube vids on "bally stepper units" that go into details on cleaning the units and checking them. Same units were used in EM pinball machines, so the coils are easy to find at pinball parts suppliers and probably ebay.
stepper units need to step up easily and wipers/ratchet whizz back to reset when the reset plunger pushed in.
if you want to test the coin relay another way, you can briefly jumper yellow wire 30 to blue/yellow wire
is the plunger on the scavenger moving freely in the coil?
since I did such a great job finding 58-4 previously (cough), I looked for your unattached wires on the schem/plug chart. I think you've got 65-2 (brown/white) and 43 (green/yellow) which went to a ramp switch that you don't have - along with the ramp that directs coins to a coin box instead of the hopper.
65-2 was for a cash box meter. which counted coins diverted to the cash box.
43 was in the level relay hold circuit. When the hopper level switch closed, the level relay is powered indicating the hopper is full and coin should divert to the cash box. To prevent the level relay from chattering if the hopper level switch is closing/opening when the hopper is barely full, the circuit is keeping the level relay powered (after it powers) at least until the next coin operated the ramp switch.
since you don't have all the ramp parts, I'd tape off 65-2 and 43 and leave them tucked away someplace.
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Coin counter drop box and door lock.
Photo of each, wires correlate.
If the odds unit step up froze in one position, this might of caused the damage to coil.
In rare cases the nylon insert can be replaced and the coil will operate as normal.
Best to replace with a good coil an monitor the operation for a few days.
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This thing is like a bag of worms!
I did actually stumble across the hopper full relay in the top cabinet. I noticed a clipped wire that when connected released the coin diverter. (Where did that horrible buzzing go!) I think when I get this going in going to tie that diverter in and disco the coil!
So the scavenger cool is going in/out very easily, Ohms out fine, as well. The step up unit is a bit sluggish. I'm going to photograph well and disassemble to clean, well be sure to watch a couple of YouTube videos, but have rebuilt my spider wheels on my pin before. The grease looks like it has hardened over the years. Interestingly enough, I noticed the similarity but never drew the connection. I have ordered a replacement coil for the step up unit (Same coil as on my pinball flippers) , now have to try and retrieve the frozen plunger that seems melted in. Any suggestions?
I played with the step up unit... manually pulling in the pawl that "steps" the gear. I do see the respective coin#2 and coin#3 payout sections now illuminating. Still no changes on coin#1 being recognized. When I pull in the step up reset coil it sluggishly resets.
I looked at jumping 30 and 23 which I think is simulating the coin in? I checked the coin switch with an old analog meter, and it is properly working. Is there any kind of set up or pure requisite I need to know that makes for the coin in to register? Or does the switch simply provide voltage to a matching relay? I also notice there are caps randomly in the slot. Would a failure cause the coins not to register?
I'm traveling the next 5 days, if I need more parts I can order then to be here when I get home.
By the way, thank you so much for hanging in there helping me. I'd be lost without your help!
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The nylon insert is melted around the plunger applying pressure and or the plunger has partially melted through the nylon.
Best to wash out excessive dirt and grime with a cleaning solvent.
Fit the coil over a block of wood with the appropriate size hole drilled into it.
Lightly tap in both directions. If it doesn’t move try a slight twist and tap.
Next would be to place it in the freezer overnight and repeat the process.
The density of the two different materials might cause it to break apart.
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Hi DavidLee,
Thanks for the advice. That makes sense, the step up unit is definitely sticky. I can see how that would cause the coil to over heat and melt. I can't get the plunger out of the coil. It sounds now, but won't pull out. I tried heading out to remelt the the sleeve, but it wouldn't budge. Unless anyone has a better suggestion, I was going to deploy BFM. (Brute Force Method) and whack it with a hammer to try and drive it out. I hate to, as the coil still appears to be good.
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Ha! DavidLee,
Your a step and a half ahead of me. :rotfl:
Will try the wood block.
Just noticed a few typos in my last post. Meant to say it now spins and I tried Heating it up.
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the step up unit is definitely sticky. I can see how that would cause the coil to over heat and melt.
maybe ...
the ratchet moves when the plunger is being pulled out of the coil by the springs on the pawl arms. The circuit sequence is:
- first coin in
1] coin switch tripwire down
2] coin relay trips, coin unit resets
3] coin tripwire up, handle release relay trips
- 2nd and 3rd coin in
1] coin unit step-up relay powers
2] coin unit step-up coil powers
3] when plunger pulls in, the coin unit step-up relay loses power
4] coin unit step-up coil loses power
5] springs pull step-up arm back, which pulls plunger out of the coil and the pawl pushes the ratchet around.
the reason for the relay is the tripwire activation is too short to reliably power a solenoid ... so a relay is powered and held powered until the solenoid fires and releases it. It's a common "hold" circuit in pinballs.
as long as the step-up arm switch opens, worst that can happen with a gunky unit is it won't step. If for whatever reason the step-up coil stays powered, then you have coil meltdown. Common problem would be the step-up arm is frozen on its pivot so the plunger didn't pull into the coil.
when the plunger and/or sleeve is stuck in a solenoid coil, the coil is shot. Even if the wire survived, the spool will be distorted so a new sleeve wouldn't go in. Might as well whack the plunger out with a hammer or cut the coil off the plunger.
there is a nylon collar around the coil stop end of the plunger. If that melted, you need to replace that also. Part number is C-342.
collar and plunger are the same as used on bally EM pinballs. Plunger is part S-496-100 ... but you should be able to get the plastic off the one you have.
I looked at jumping 30 and 23 which I think is simulating the coin in? I checked the coin switch with an old analog meter, and it is properly working. Is there any kind of set up or pure requisite I need to know that makes for the coin in to register? Or does the switch simply provide voltage to a matching relay? I also notice there are caps randomly in the slot. Would a failure cause the coins not to register?
the circuit goes from yellow wire 30 on the coin switch to:
- blue/yellow wire on the coin switch when tripwire down to handle release relay switch (handle release relay reset/untripped)
- grey/blue wire on mating blade of the handle release relay to 1st reel snap switch (look for the grey/blue wire at top of left side of reel mech for the snap switch)
- blue/red wire on mating blade on snap switch to coin relay switch
- mating blade on coin relay switch to coin relay coil. Could be a white wire or a jumper wire of any color - usually black tho.
if the coin switch works, then the handle release switch, snap switch, coin relay switch or plug connections could be the problem. You can use a voltmeter or jumper wire to find out where the issue is.
e.g. jumper wire 30 (yellow wire on coin switch) to any of the wires in the above and the coin relay should trip. Jumping the wires on the coin switch is the easiest, then it's more effort to attach a jumper where you want. I usually attach a jumper, shove the reel mech back in and either touch the other end of the jumper to wire 30 or attach a voltmeter on the jumper and put the other meter probe on orange wire 70 on any handy coil looking for 50V when the coin tripwire is down.
the caps being bad would only effect payout ... possibly shutting the machine down. Resetting and coining is just the coin switch and three other switches bolded above.
below is what all that verbage above looks like on the schem.
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Okay,
If the plunger can spin, but won’t pull out. Most likely the nylon sleeve is deformed.
With caution insert the plunger into a drill press or motor.
Drill press would work the best as for control. Drill motor might be safer due to very varying speed.
Which ever way suits your situation, apply some cutting oil and or penetrating oil.
With caution hold the coil with a glove spin the plunger, apply slight up and down movement.
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Should have been packing. But noooo... I'm screwing around with the slot machine!
So, I was looking at a fried step up coil, a coin switch that was not registering and a scavenger cool that I thought worked. But was not. While poking around, the scavenger coil energized and released, but was not working when I pressed the button. A little tug on the coil wire 31 and I found a broken solder connection. When I reattached the wire. The scavenger coil energized and stayed in. I'm guessing that is not good, and perhaps why the coins are not registering?
I followed 31 all the way to the top cabinet looking for a short. I could not find one. It has to have a short, as it is causing the solenoid to pull in. ] I've got the schematic to read on my journey and try and figure out the short. I am wondering if the wire I pulled might be part of the problem?
As for the coil :I_agree_: is going to be destructive. I'm going to try and save it, but have one on order, just in case.
I am hoping I'm close to solving this mystery.
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Well your making progress, but not in the travel packing department.
Scavenger coil may need to stay energized, Wolftalk will know.
I shy away from $ machines for the lack of coins.
When working in certain areas / units, it’s a good practice the closely observed all pertaining connections and mechanical parts.
Schematic for the 1088 quarter machine will have the basic wiring, your machine may vary slightly due to the scavenger set up.
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I followed 31 all the way to the top cabinet looking for a short. I could not find one. It has to have a short, as it is causing the solenoid to pull in. ] I've got the schematic to read on my journey and try and figure out the short. I am wondering if the wire I pulled might be part of the problem?
the scavenger coil is designed to allow it to stay powered forever. If someone deposited three coins and didn't spin for a long time or jammed the coin return button down, it'd be someone inconvenient for the coil to keep burning up :-)
there's 5 reasons the scavenger coil should energize:
- handle is pulled
- coin reject button pushed
- reels are spinning
- payout is happening
- you've deposited three coins
when the game is ready to accept a coin, the scavenger coil is unpowered. This is the opposite of how the coin lockout magnet worked on most games ... that thing needed to be powered to allow a coin to pass thru the mech to the tripwire exit.
so you need to check the five places and see which one is causing the coil to power. Schem chunk is below.
if you had to push the reset button and then the scavenger coil powered, that implies the payout relay powered and your hopper shoulda turned on.
not sure if it was clear, but dropping a coin in the entry can have three outcomes:
1] it makes it thru the mech and depresses the coin switch tripwire briefly
2] it dumps back to the tray
3] it gets jammed in the mech
I've been assuming it's correctly operating the trip wire when you've been having issues with the coin relay tripping. If it's just getting dumped to the tray, that can be the scavenger coil being energized at the wrong time or the mech itself not routing the coin to the correct outlet due to crud or adjustment.
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I replaced the burned out/ melted coil on the step up unit. I think I've made progress. I've looked at the switch contacts and they certainly have seen their share of adjustments over the years. I've attached a photo.
I've got the mechanical part working (I think) if I press the step up coil once, coin 2 payout window lights, again and coin 3 payout also lights. Interestingly enough, the handle release solenoid energizes and the machine plays. Most times, it does not reset the handle and you can keep pulling. It does not seem to be resetting the step up unit by energizing the new coil. The scavenger coil does energize now and stays energized until the handle decides to lock, then the scavenger releases.
I'm working on trying to understand the schematics so thankfully provided, but still unsure I'm reading correctly. Does the switches look correct for the step up unit?
I kind of think I'm working backwards towards the solution. I have cleaned the connectors on the back of the reel unit, but not sure how to clean the sockets. I brushed them with a small brass parts cleaning brush, but not sure how to clean the mating socket part.
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One thing to check is the mechanical portion of the handle release.
Possibly it is a little sluggish and or sticking some how.
Also the little drop back mechanism that allows the handle release to function.
It could be stuck.
Try adding a little pressure on the handle release bar, then add a coin.
Could indicate contacts out of adjustment.
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I've got the mechanical part working (I think) if I press the step up coil once, coin 2 payout window lights, again and coin 3 payout also lights. Interestingly enough, the handle release solenoid energizes and the machine plays. Most times, it does not reset the handle and you can keep pulling. It does not seem to be resetting the step up unit by energizing the new coil. The scavenger coil does energize now and stays energized until the handle decides to lock, then the scavenger releases.
the new coil is the step-up coil. The other solenoid coil on the unit is the reset coil.
the switches look correct. The white peg operates the two left switches and opens both at zero (unit reset). The brass peg operates the two switches on the right at top (step 2 of the unit when 3rd coin played).
when you pull the handle, the coin relay on the lower/left side of the reel mech needs to reset/latch. If it stays tripped, the handle release will not latch and lock the handle.
if the handle release is not locked, then the coin unit won't reset and the scavenger will stay powered.
if the coin relay is resetting/latching, then per david the handle release mechanism probably has a mechanical issue. Look for crud on the armature plate sticking the plate to the coil top. If it's not crud, then rarely it can be a dimple worn in the plate with a burred edge or residual magnetism.
I have cleaned the connectors on the back of the reel unit, but not sure how to clean the sockets. I brushed them with a small brass parts cleaning brush, but not sure how to clean the mating socket part.
I wouldn't worry about the socket unless you have heavy corrosion or oxidation and cleaning the male pins doesn't fix it. When the pins go into the socket, it tends to scrub the socket well enough to make a reliable connection.
if you do have heavy oxidation, then there are small round wire "tube" cleaning brushes that can be used
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As Wolftalk stated about the female plug pin sockets a small wire cleaner would work.
Something like a welding nozzle tip brush possibly.
If there’s a connection problem between pin and socket.
Inspect it closely as be sure the assembly is in tack and solder joints are good.
I do this sometimes, but don’t recommend it.
Twist the suspected pin very slightly.
As it will ride the edges and hopefully make contact.
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To all those that have helped thus far... :thank_you:
Progress has been made I've actually gotten the coins to be registered! The exact cause remains a mystery, but cleaning the switch contacts on the fan side of the reel assembly helped tremendously.
It now takes coins, registers #1, #2 & #3. Dropping a coin unlocks the handle. Pulling the handle sounds the wheels, which lock into place and pay correctly. It does not reset. The step up relay stays latched, which I'm sure is why the previous coil melted. (See photo)
I can manually release the coil to go another round.
Does anyone know why this coil would not release?
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Check the step up unit switches, possibly a switch that supposed to open after the reset is out of adjustment.
Without taking to much time while the coil is energized, insert a non-metallic strip between any closed switch on the unit.
No guarantees this is the source, but it will give direction / indication.
Will review the schematic a little later for a better understanding of the situation.
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I don't understand what "The step up relay stays latched" means. Something is staying powered or not powering?
there's the step-up solenoid coil ("new coil" in post 24 pic), and there's a step-up relay that has a switch that powers the step-up solenoid.
if the step-up relay wasn't unpowering after the step-up solenoid plunger pulled in, the solenoid would stay powered and the coin unit wouldn't step. Eventually the solenoid coil would burn up.
do you mean you play three coins and the lights move correctly (coin unit steps up), spin, then when you play a coin the coin unit does not reset?
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Wolftalk,
After stepping up to the 3rd coin. The coil is staying energized.
I believe this is the situation.
Most likely a switch in the circuit is not opening.
Or contacts are on the wrong side of a control pin that actually moves the points open or closed.
Would like to see straight on photos of the unit switches open then closed.
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Hi guys,
I believe DavidLee is correct. I just tested what happens on each coin. Starting from home position on the step up unit.
1st coin
Scavenger coil engages
Handle unlocks
Pull handle works
Reels spin and lock
Handle locks
2nd and 3rd coin
Scavenger coil remains engaged from coin 1
Step up relay energizes
Step up coil clicks in and stays in
2nd/3rd coin payouts options light appropriately for coin deposited
Handle stays unlocked
Pull handle works
Reels spin and lock
Handle locks
Step up coil remains energized and at this point, quite hot.
If I open the step up relay by hand, the step up coil de-energizes.
2nd/3rd payout options stay lit (step up does not reset)
Pic 086451 and 206193 home starting position
Pic 316065 and 376387 second coin deposited
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if the coin unit step-up solenoid coil is staying powered, the coin unit won't step and the lights will not advance to the 2nd and 3rd column of payouts.
the unit steps up when the solenoid coil loses power.
if the step-up solenoid loses power correctly after a coin is deposited ... which it must be ... then is the problem that the step-up relay is powering after the handle release relay is reset?
if yes, then your coin switch isn't working properly or you have a short.
check the state of the step -up relay and the coin unit step-up solenoid before you pull the handle.
the sequence is:
1] 1st coin, the coin unit resets. Coin unit step up relay and step-up solenoid do nothing. Coin relay and handle release relays trip.
2] second coin depress/release the coin switch, the coin unit step-up relay powers and stays powered
3] coin unit step-up solenoid powers
4] when the plunger pulls in, the coin unit step-up arm switch with yellow and blue/orange wires opens and coin relay loses power
5] coin unit step up solenoid loses power and as the spring pulls the arm and plunger out of the coil, the ratchet turns the wipers
third coin does the same thing starting at [2].
if your coin unit step-up arm switch doesn't work, then the coin relay will stay powered ... which keeps the solenoid powered. However, unless it's intermittent, you'd see that issue on the second coin and the lights wouldn't advance.
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Regarding photo 3, all contacts should be open when the coil is not energized.
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Glad to see the site back up again!
I've made considerable progress!
Machine is mostly working. That is it plays and pays (most times payout=payout+1), but does not take coins when dropped. I can flip the coin switch and it applies correct credit. When first coin is deposited, the scavenger coil energizes and remains energized until spin completion.
Turns out, t hat I needed to burnish and adjust the connections that DavidLee contented on.
:thank_you:
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WOW! Thank you for the detailed explanation.
I've gotten so much progress thanks to help from you and David Lee. I'm 99% there to a working machine. I'm wrestling with the step up relay now thinking it might be dirty contact on the middle contact. If I adjust the connection ever so slightly it works a few times. Then becomes problematic until I play with it again. I'm going to burnish them and see if it makes a difference. Still wrestling with why the scavenger coil stays energized after coin 1. I guess worse comes to worse, I can just forget about the scavenger coil and disconnect it.
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Regarding step up relay contacts.
They look a little abused. Possibly one of the blades is broken between the insulators.
Also check the wires as in broken under the insulation near the solder joint.
Photos of the scavenger / coin mechanism might be helpful.
Could be a small mechanical adjustment if the coins are not registering and or dropping to the tray.
Great that you’re making good progress.
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the scavenger coil is powering when the coin relay trips because your coin unit close-at-top switch is stuck closed ... at least, it looks like it is in your 4th pic in post 32.
when the coin unit has stepped up once, the brass peg should be close to or barely touching the long switch blades, but should not be changing the switch state. At reset and step 1, the switch with the white/black and yellow/red wires should be open and the rightmost switch in the stack should be closed.
when the unit steps again on for the 3rd coin, then the brass peg pushes the long blades enough to change the switch state.
when adjusting the relay switches, make sure the long blade deflects the short blade visibly after the contacts touch. That "overtravel" causes the contacts to slide across each other a little which helps create a good connection.
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These two photos might help.
First photo.
Second photo on page 3.
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Second photo.