New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: antichrist on June 27, 2014, 08:27:04 AM
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Hello !
I´m new to this forum and new to slots. Need help.
Last weekend I got an Bally E 1235 Slot but when I switch it on, I get an 100002 on the winmeter.
Manual push of the Coin Switch does nothing and i look out for the Test / Reset buttons, but cannot find it.
Only on the right side next to the Reel Block there is a sticker: test Plug
and you can see 2 pcs of Molex 3x4 Pin Female connectors. thats all.
on the Hopper there are no switches ....
What can I do now ?
I have no schematic and no manual with this machine and unable to download it :-(
Marcus
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That error code would seem to indicate that the M1 Eprom is bad. I would pull that out and make sure
that you don't have a bent pin.
As for the test switch, these are located on the hopper control board. There are two small buttons that
stick up from the top, one is reset the other is the test button
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I will check this out,
which one is the M1 Rom ? next to the 2650 IC or opositte ?
I hope that you are right and there is only a pin bend , because if the rom is bad i´m out of luck here...
Thank you for your help !
M.
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To the right of the 2650 there are 4 chips M1 is the first one in that row, it is also marked M1 M2 M3 etc..
on the circuit board.
I do offer repair services for these boards if it isn't a bent pin and you want to have the board repaired.
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Thank you, I wasn´t able to remove the PCB board because I can´t remove the Reel Block at the moment.
You told me I should look out for the test switches but there are no test switches in this machine ?!
I think something is missing ... please look at the pictures and tell me what should plug in here
http://imgur.com/a/RRU9X (http://imgur.com/a/RRU9X)
This was the left side in the cabinet next to the "reel block"
some more pictures here:
http://imgur.com/a/0iw05 (http://imgur.com/a/0iw05)
very strange machine ... Hopefully not a garbage box with full of damaged pieces :(
Maybe you can tell me where to plug in the loose cable ?
M.
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Your coin mech is missing. You need a mechanical coin mechanism in order for it to count coins and coin up the machine to play. Need a picture of your coin hopper. The coin hopper is the assembly in the bottom of the cabinet. The hopper has a circuit board with the reset and test switches. The extra connections on the switches with no wires attached is correct and normal. The test plugs are correct with nothing connected to them.
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(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewlifegames.net%2Fnlg%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D1667.0%3Battach%3D5595%3Bimage&hash=f7a3b6701dc226996cdb0f3026655d5903eab201) I copied this pic from another post but you can see the red buttons on the left side. The left hand button is the reset . Tap it with your finger 4-5 times to make sure the contacts get a good connection then Push and hold for 3 seconds and release. Close the door and see if you get a different code in the display.
Also you will most likely have to remove the reel assembly and lubricate it in order for the machine to work properly without errors.
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I just went through this with a clients machine (E series) and it was a pain in the butt!.....But, with the help from Dan "Dhellis" :thank_you: I was finally able to get it up and running...I highly recommend his services!!!...He is the man :cool_thumb_up: !...He has probably the only tester out there to test boards!...After getting all my boards checked and repaired by him, I had to continue with finding out the mechanical problems which still existed-Lubing everything and I mean every moving part!...Get yourself the manual, it does help if your really interested in getting the machine working...Make sure EVERY wire is where is should be...Looks like your missing one wire to the coin counter switch on the hopper...I had bad wiring, hardened grease, bad Eproms, burned connectors, etc...I have about 45 hours in mine of which 43 hours where a labor of love to get it working because of my fedish to get machines working :Crazy: ...The more information and pictures you can post the better for everyone on the forum to be able to help you...Good luck,
Jimmy
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Sunrise has already told you that the coin mechanism is missing so you will need that before the machine will work.
The switches are designed so that they can be wired as a normally open or normally closed switch. This means that
when the plunger is pushed the connection will either make or break the circuit. The plug in near the bottom of
the case (2 pin Molex) may not be used in your machine. The wiring harness is pretty generic so finding additional
unused connectors is not unusual. The fuse block is also rather generic, yours may cause you to think something
is missing when in fact that particular circuit isn't used.
The reel block has levers on each side, when in the up position the reel block is locked into place, pull them down
and you should be able to slide the entire mechanism out.
One thing that I find rather curious and that is that there is a label that says '2DM" to me this would indicate
that the machine was set up for the German 2DM coin. This coin is a bit more than 1 inch in diameter and is
likely the reason that the coin mechanism is missing. You can replace it with a $.25 mechanism but I would
suspect that you will have to adjust the knife blade on the hopper (if there is one) to get it to dispense coins
during payouts.
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Thank you all for the tips. :thank_you:
I was finally able to find the testswitches[big] IN ![/big] the hopper unit.
After that I disconnect the 2 Molex plugs from the wheel block and lift it from the machine.
Next I unplug the cables and damn I killed the pins (2) of the dil16 plug - flatcable to the driverboard :duh:
now i cannot test the machine via Testswitch. funny. I bend the pins while I was lift the plug, but not parallel...
Here new photos from the MPU pcb:
http://imgur.com/a/mVduh (http://imgur.com/a/mVduh)
Its a E2000 pcb and made in 1991 (!) some bad solderpoints (heat) are there but I don´t have my solderstation at hand, so I have to wait till I´m back in office again
I post this for everbody who has the same problems like me.
Details from DIP switch settings, Eprom Labels , NiCd battery and you can even see all components clearly.
@dinoman: what coinswitch wire from hopper you are refering ? and congrats to you for not give up - so many problems at once ? hmm
@sunrise: there is no picture within your reply ! - I try to find an suitable mechanism. cannot use test switch at the moment, I have to find a new flatcable ...
@dhellis: hope I can fix the pcb, if not I have to purchase the eproms/proms from you. Sending the pcb to usa and back is not cheap and yes, it´s a german machine.
the hopper will be tested when I have the new flatcable.
I´m not shure if the NiCd battery is leaking, but on the left pin it seems like leaking.
Which solvent are you using to remove the dirt/flux from pcb ? I try isoprophylene alcohol with minimal effect.
Which kind of lube are you using for the mechanic parts ?
greetings
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In your first set of photo's, the first photo shows a red circle...There should be two wires connected to that switch...I believe they are hooked up for Normally open...It is the switch that counts the coins as they pass though the hopper and out into the tray...FYI...I had to adjust mine a little bit because the coin would not trigger the lever switch...
Jimmy
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The battery does look to be corroded, though not necessary to operate the machine it can be replaced. NiCad batteries are
difficult to find in the US so I replace them with NiMH but also will remove the 100 ohm resistor (R62) and replace it with a
diode. The band of the diode should be facing towards the marking for J4. This is diode is to prevent the battery from getting
voltage and thus overheating.
The flat ribbon cables are wired 1 to 1. I don't know where in Germany you live but these IDC connectors can be found
all over the place and are press on so not to difficult to cut off the old one and replace.
Some people like to use WD40, that is good for getting stuff loose but for lubrication it is better to use something light such
as 3 in 1 or the same oil that is used in sewing machines. For grease I use a light synthetic on the only machine that I own
which happens to be 92 years old.
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Found that IDC connector and replace the bad one :)
Where can I compare my EPROM checksums against others to verify my roms are ok ?
Which kind of checksum algo (crc16, Motorola ...) I should use ?
I´m still need a schematic of the E2000 MPU board , need to know how the reset generator and the interrupt prom works
Thanks for the sewing oil , got one :)
cheers,
m.
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The check sum should be calculated as the "Sum" of the data.
Here are the checksums that I have
M1 E755-16 8000
M2 E755-17 C400
M3 E755-18 1000
If you want to use CRC-16 then those would be
M1 F304
M2 8813
M3 17B6
Normally I would see the manuals in the download section but seems that I do not have permission to do
so at the moment so there is either some problem or maybe you have to be a contributing member or
something else is wrong.
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Thats true I have to be a contributin member with a monthly subscription. Sad
Strange checksums !! so Clean 8000,C400,1000 maybe they filled in special byte to get such a clean checksum code ?
Never saw this ....
thank you dhellis ! i will check this
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It is strange that the M-x chips all end with 00 and all of the game chips end with xx56 :Scratch-Head:
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so here are the checksums (sum) for E2000 Series PCB: m1,m2,m3 and p1 rom
typ: d2716 intel
name checks Label
m1 8000 e755-16 m1 2-21
m2 c400 e755-17 m2 2-21
m3 6000 e755-18 m3 2-21
p1 3b56 e2212-17 656088 M4
p2 no prom inserted
seems my M3 is corrupt ?
your checksum is 1000 and I get 6000 ?
The next task is to swap the two ram chips and see what´ll be happen.
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I rechecked the checksum on M3 E755-18 and found that I fat fingered the number yours is correct
at 6000
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I swapped the rams 5101 u23 u24 with no result.
Then i pull out p1 Personality chip:
After switch in the display shows
6. . . .. . . .
After 1 sec.
6 . . . . . . 7
Pull out m1
. . . . . . . .
Pull m2
6 . . . . . . after one sec
0 . . . . .. .
Pull m3
6 . . . . . after 1 sec
100002 same error AS usual ! Very Interresting
If you pull the rams i get immediately 100002
With rams: 000000 with flashing points after 1 sec 100002
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I have gone thru dozens of surplus E2000 MPU boards a few months ago. Most of them had software on them so I extracted the data and saved them all. I don't have much for the E1000 machines though.
All P1's checksum to xx56.
All P2's checksum to xx00 Along with all M chips.
In the code, there is a series of data before and after the copyright text, and I believe Bally manipulated this data to satisfy the last two digits of the checksum. I played around with changing some of this data along with the copyright text to equal the original checksum and had no issues - on the P1 chips.
If you still experience errors after verifying checksums, possibly a bad EPROM or RAM socket? The chip sockets are first suspect on these kinds of boards, especially given the age of them. Very similar to pinball machine boards when it comes to chip sockets.
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:thank_you:
yeah , tomorrow I check the cpu socket and all (e)prom sockets again.
maybe I forget one pin ?
for checksum reasons you have to modify just only one byte of eprom.
With an 2650 disassembler you can check the routine for counting bytes and make some changes in the Bin file.
Did you find differences when You compare one Personal Binaryfile with another one ?
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I compared two P1 chips which were very similar, but a 1% difference between the payout percentages. Chip part numbers 550287 and 550288, both checksum to 9056. They are used on E2000 machines and can be interchanged.
The chip's part number for all P1 chips can be found at hex location 0062 thru 0064. This data is displayed in the readout during the machine test procedure, i.e. 55 02 87
HEX Location 550287 550288
0064 87 88
0067 33 16
0120 04 05
0121 06 10
0123 04 05
0124 00 10
These five bit changes apparently equate to the 1% payout difference. Using a dis-asembler, you would likely be able to annotate the data.
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very interresting your investigations :cool_thumb_up:
they change the checksum to the same value 9056.
did you change the bytes to a other payoutratio and burn a new prom with those and test it ?
maybe the checksum have to be corrected maybe someone has written a small calculator for that.
I wish I could test this by myself but I wait for the softwareupdate to read the 82s123 roms for my prommer to check if they are correct.
at the moment 100002 error is up and I clean and test all cpu , ram , rom sockets pin by pin everything is fine :(
next I change the 5101 with an 6264 sram because I don´t have these 5101 here..
the Adress/Datalines goes to socket p2 and this should be easy to connect
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A quick look tells me that hex location 0067 is a flexible bit, not related to any equations. This data must be what was used to achieve the necessary checksum after the other locations were modified. Then, the percentage difference is likely modified by data in 0120, 0121, 0123 and 0124.
So, the hack would be to change these four bits of data to see if it significantly affects the payout percentage, but I'm not sure how you'd test the changes.
What we need here is someone experienced in assembly language to chime in, where this could be a classroom experiment....
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there are some eprom simulators (Pic processor with sram and outputbuffers) . unfortunately my one is very old with dos software and serial cable
I can´t remember where to find the disk (arround 1992) and have no dos computer anymore...
but there are 28c256 or something, you can burn with an eprom burner and plug in instead of P1 and then look what happend
correct 0067 is the checksum patch
0000-07ff m1
0800-0fff m2
1000-17ff m2
1800-1fff P1
2000-27ff P2
1e00-1eff RAM 5101 (lower and upper ram as 8bit device)
Interesting places in the P1 Chip:
Payout Table at P1:
18b0 00 00 00 20 00 20 00 20 00 50 01 00 00 00 00 00
18c0 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 05 00 20 00 10 00 14 00 18
18d0 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 04 08 10 20 01 02 04 08
18e0 10 20 01 02 04 08 00 00 01 02 04 08
X1868:
; Spule 0
; from bottom to top (glue is begining and End marking)
; Cherry = 0a
; Plum =12
; Bell =13
; Bar =24
; Orange =11
; Seven =85
db H'85', H'12' ; REEL 1 Decoded bottom to top (85not used , start with plum /12 =2 = Plum)
db H'13', H'12', H'13', H'12' ; 2,3,2,3,2,3,2,3,0,3,2,4,3,2,3,1..
db H'13', H'12', H'13', H'0A' ;
db H'13', H'12', H'24', H'13' ; 22 Symbols 85,13,0a,13,12,13,11,13..
db H'12', H'13', H'11', H'13'
db H'12', H'13', H'0A', H'13'
db H'85', H'12' ; 85 Seven = END 12 = not on the wheel
X1880:
db H'85', H'11', H'24', H'13' ; reel 2 1,4,3,4,2,4,1,4,0
db H'24', H'12', H'24', H'11'
db H'24', H'0A', H'24', H'11'
db H'13', H'24', H'11', H'24'
db H'11', H'24', H'0A', H'24'
db H'11', H'24', H'85', H'11' ; 85 =seven und End
X1898:
db H'85', H'12', H'11', H'12' ; reel 3 : 5,1,2,0,1,2,1,2,3,1
db H'11', H'0A', H'12', H'11'
db H'24', H'11', H'12', H'11'
db H'12', H'11', H'13', H'12'
db H'11', H'12', H'11', H'0A'
db H'12', H'11', H'85', H'12' ; 85 = end 3
yes its a classproject , a lot of work. In germany at the humbold university they have a" introducing to microprocessing" at the media class with an signetics2650 Emulator, they write games for a Interton Game Console during the semester.
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not much at the moment as I´m waiting for my prom programmer...
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@ramegoom
This mistery 56 will be asked here:
00C1 0C 18 00 LODA R0 1800 56 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 42 01 00 00 00 00 05
00C4 1A 04 BCTR N 00CA 56 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 42 01 00 00 00 00 05
00C6 E4 56 COMI R0 56 56 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 02 01 00 00 00 00 05
00C8 98 73 BCFR Z 00BD 56 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 02 01 00 00 00 00 05
00CA 04 D6 LODI R0 D6 D6 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 82 01 00 00 00 00 05
00CC B0 WRTC R0 D6 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 82 01 00 00 00 00 05
00CD F0 WRTD R0 D6 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 82 01 00 00 00 00 06
00CE 3F 04 F6 BSTA UN 04F6 D6 00 00 00 00 00 00 21 82 01 00 00 00 00 06
04F6 20 EORZ R0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 21 02 01 00 00 00 00 06
04F7 CC 1E 16 STRA R0 1E16 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 21 02 01 00 00 00 00 06
04FA CC 1E 17 STRA R0 1E17 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 21 02 01 00 00 00 00 06
you can clearly see, memory location c6 (m1 Prom) compare the Register 0 with with 56
and jumps when happen or not.
This codeline prevents you from alter a personal rom ....
so here you can change something and then you can begin to alter the perso prom and look whats happen ...
at the moment I try to build an prom adapter since I have no 82s123 proms ...
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I try to get an cc16 compatible coinmech (MC16) and I cannot see the 24 VDC Connector in my slot ?.
Can somebody please explain , where to find the Coinmech connector ?
Is there a wire loom or something ?
Where did you usually connect the coinmech ?
:hail:
http://i.imgur.com/t0rv2js.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/t0rv2js.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/vhsEWiY.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vhsEWiY.jpg)
b)
Is it true I have to modify the Hopper when I want other coins than Quarters or DM to spit out ?
if yes what part has to be modify and how ?
Cheers
..:: my slot is an bermudatriangle ::..
One solution found many new problems came up
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Don't know if this will help, but here's the connector for the comparitor on an E2000 machine. It simply supplies voltage to two of the six terminals, the red LED lights on the comparitor, and the coin passes thru. The logic in the CPU will either power it up when it's ready to accept a coin. Also, to use a different coin in the comparitor, you put a sample coin in the slot (brass token is in there now) so the comparitor will automatically acccept only that type of coin.
If you need to change coin types on the hopper, it involves a coin shelf and coin wheel change to match the particular size of coin.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fcomparitor_connector.jpg&hash=1416bfc673239af39e7f7b3ea9c966091aa97347)
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thank you ramegoom, you save my day !!
my is looking like that: http://i.imgur.com/F2WSlCY.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/F2WSlCY.jpg)
Could you be so nice and tell me where did the red / Black wire going to ?
is the 2nd connector to the brass sensor comming with the comparitor or is this cable from the slot machine ??
cannot see this on the pic.
I don´t have this cable in my door :soapbox_3: ???
Hopper: where can I get those wheel part for ? want to use it with euro coins ...#
btw: interresting, brass is not magnetically working as I know :no:
maybe it changes AC frequency components.... hmmm
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If you don't have the connector, you can probably fabricate one, wire it to 12 volts (assuming the comparitor is a 12 volt unit) and keep it on all the time that the machine is running. It will then allow the coin you are using to work for the machine. You might have to modify the coin slot to make the newer coin work.
For the coin wheels, look on Ebay. There should be Bally coin shelves and wheels there. What size is the coin you are trying to use? If it's close to the US quarter (24,19mm, 0.950 in.) the hopper you have should work - you would need to adjust the coin knife and the payout switch to make it compatible.
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You can use a mechanical coin mech. such as this one...Used on arcades and pinball machines and older slots...
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^^What Mr. Dinoman said...yep that's the alternative. Wonder if it had a mechanical acceptor originally?
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Pretty sure it had mechanical coin mech as it has the diverter mechanism in the holder. If you use a comparitor , you will not use the divert mechanism in the holder currently as the comparitor has it's own. you will use those diverter coil wires but I will have to take a look at which pins on the comparitor you use for the voltage that is supplied to that divert coil. The comparitor has multiple voltage choices.
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at the moment I validate which coinmech needed.
option a) the Comparitor mc16
this one needs 24 VDC supply but I don´t find any wires at this voltage in my slot ??
but the fist E1000/2000 slots should be runnung with 24vdc here (cc-16 comparitor) if I´m right ?!
Terminals:
http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/xhp-6/steckergehaeuse-6kont/dp/1516269?CMP=KNC-GAT-FAT-GEN-KWL-OTH-JST (http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/xhp-6/steckergehaeuse-6kont/dp/1516269?CMP=KNC-GAT-FAT-GEN-KWL-OTH-JST)
http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/bxh-001t-p0-6/crimp-terminal-xh-28-22awg/dp/1516301?MER=en-me-pd-r2-acce-con (http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/bxh-001t-p0-6/crimp-terminal-xh-28-22awg/dp/1516301?MER=en-me-pd-r2-acce-con)
http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/wc-110/hand-tool-crimp/dp/1516302?MER=en-me-pd-r2-acce-con (http://uk.farnell.com/jst-japan-solderless-terminals/wc-110/hand-tool-crimp/dp/1516302?MER=en-me-pd-r2-acce-con)
but unfortunately the costs for the crimp tool is higher that the whole slotmachine *sick*
option b) a cheapy mechanical one ...
the coins I want to use are euro coins since i live in europe.
1 Euro Diameter: 23,25 mm (0,915354331 inches)
thickness: 2,33 mm (0,0917322835 inches)
weight: 7,50 g = 0.26 oz
I don´t know if knives and wheels exists for that ...
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The US quarter hopper will work for your coin. You would need to adjust the payout switch because the coin is slightly smaller in diameter, so the switch would need to actuate at the 11 o'clock position on the coin (where the coin passes thru the roller at that point). Otherwise that will work fine.
The coin mechanism wires can be soldered directly to the pins if you don't have the mating connector. Look for the voltage in the machine to power it up. Although, a mechanical acceptor would work, you might not be able to find one that will pass your coins properly, so the CC16 is more desirable since it senses the actual coin that you insert in the slide.
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thank you. thats nice , just modify the microswitch :applause:
my progress on my pcb :
u17 and U19 are bad (proms) so I try an prom replacement socket:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkkKrsGR.jpg&hash=bf4d6204a336fb55f768791b08070f6af373d4d6)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fzf3QFdM.jpg&hash=182aca15a3a9b1ccc05de924f9230abc7c526450)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fr4SIIDz.jpg&hash=cab1d874214144c4bc0e166e770a47e82725036e)
at the moment I :banghead: because my cheap china chip programmer cccp ( product TOP2011) doesn´t burn the GAL chip correctly ..
very sad :hissyfit: If you follow me, don´t do it , its not worth the money ! get a real chip prommer !
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to ramegoom:
so if you wish to alter the Roms (m1,m2,m3) you have to switch off the ROMCHECK routine.
the easiest is to alter the M1 rom at adress 00ce from 3f 04 f6 to:
00ce c0
00cf c0
00d0 c0
you can do this with your eprom burner built in memory editor
after you put in the 3 c0 codes, no rommemory check (100006) again
so you can alter all Roms without tilting :dancing_2:
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Good info! This makes hacking much easier, especially using a ROM emulator. I have an old Dataman S4 that works nicely for emulating on the fly.
Now if you can figure out how to increase the payout odds to say, 98% - that would be the icing on the cake.
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Took a look at the M1 chip (E755-79) for an E1000. The data string 3f 04 F6 is at location 00F1
Looked at the M1 chip (E755-80)for an E2000, same data is found at 00ED.
By changing these three bytes to C0, does this bypass the checksum check for all program chips, or only the M1? EPROMs M1, M2, M3, and P2 all have checksums xx00, and all P1 checksums have xx56, so I'm thinking the bypass mod will ignore checksums from every EPROM?
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ok thats seems crazy. so they do a lot different M1 versions by the way ....
I can only talk about mine Rom Version 755-16 2-21
look at following code:
00CA 04 D6 LODI R0 D6 Load 6 in Register0
00CC B0 WRTC R0 write this to the display (winmeter) : 100006
00CD F0 WRTD R0 write this to the Debuggerconsole
00CE 3F 04 F6 BSTA UN 04F6 jump to the memory test Subroutine
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
00F6 ......
0567 77 02 PPSL 02 1D 01 FE 00 00 00 22 63 01 00 00 00 00 06
056D DB 78 BIRR R3 0567 01 1D 01 FF 00 00 00 22 63 01 00 00 00 00 06
0567 77 02 PPSL 01 1D 01 FF 00 00 00 22 63 01 00 00 00 00 06
0569 8F FE 16 ADDA R3 1DFF * # 00 1D 01 FF 00 00 00 22 23 01 00 00 00 00 06
056D DB 78 BIRR R3 0567 00 1D 01 00 00 00 00 22 23 01 00 00 00 00 06
056F 75 09 CPSL 00 1D 01 00 00 00 00 22 22 01 00 00 00 00 06
0579 FA 6C BDRR R2 0567 00 1E 00 00 00 00 00 22 42 01 00 00 00 00 06
057B 17 RETC UN ; this returns from subroutine to the calling part from 00CE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
00D1 20 EORZ R0 ; Clear Reg0
00D2 CC 1E 2F STRA R0 1E2F ;write 0 to 1e2f (ram)
This memorycheck goes from 0000-1dff all M1,m2,m3 and P1 but not the rams , the rams will be tested at 100002
Thats all at the moment I can see in my Debugger.
So if you look at the sequence:
04 D6 B0 XX 3F AA BB
then you look at the command to write 6 to the display and call romcheck.
xx something (F0 ... write to debugger)
AA 04
BB F6
AA BB is the adress to jump to the romcheck and 3F means JUMP to Subroutine
whenever you see this sequence you found the romcheck in your M1 rom
we change here 3F AA BB to C0,C0,C0
this means No Operation (NOP) if the microprocessor see this 3 Nops he does exactly Nothing ( so it will *NOT* check the ROMs)
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:me_too: Could somebody confirm my findings please ? :me_too: :me_too:
My machine is still not running. Proms are rebuilt and 100% working after I recode the Gal equations manually.
Still debugging the TTL stuff.. (very boring..)
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Sent you a PM.
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So its wintertime and I have more time to debug the summerproject again.
I forgot to check the Powersupply because i was naiv and think "when the MPU is booting.. power has to be ok" but this is unlogical, especially
with this grandfather of CPU technologies.
so I connect the scope on c9 (smoothing cap) on the e2000 MPU
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9Qd9Gic.jpg&hash=935d12f5ef6932f3ffc38d207e335aa62be779b4)
C9 Capacitor in front of Power Regulator
Here I measure the voltage to the mpu board
so its 12 V dc with an 2 volt ripple overlayed (Sawtooth waveform)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUbnOQxB.jpg&hash=7b05d4c669dffae8182daf0b09019c4a6ab2059a)
AC Coupling shows the 2 Volt ripple on the supply.
I think its too much for a cpu System, what you think ?
has anybody same measurement on the E2000 MPU ?
Question 2:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbUsL1wZ.jpg&hash=0d25c3daae79b56b4cf6d0af99361dff9ffebedf)
what does it mean if half of the connector J2 is cut off (upper aera in the middle)
and for what is the greeen Dil 16 Connector (lower right corner)
So *please help my* (and others with similar problems with my experience)
cheers
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I checked my E2000 MPU board and found 0.818 volts of ripple @120 hz. 2 volts ripple is to much as that would
be almost 50% of the 5 volt supply.
The missing wires do not appear to be cut off just missing and this could be because your machine does not use
any of the bits on this particular IO port (input port 0)
The other socket is for other options such as a sound card.
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thank you Dan !
0.8v seems ok with the bridge diode forward voltage.
time to rip up the supply pcb.
cheers
Could you be so nice and send me a picture of a bally Soundcard please ?
if I had one could I plug it in and it playing melodies or do I need additional Eprom swap with sound progam inside ?
Do you know why I get this message when I click NLG File System?
"You are not allowed to view the Downloads"
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I will have to see if I have a picture of a sound card but someone on this forum must have one. I also don't
think you would be able to use if even if you had it because your game does not support it and you need a
P1 and P2 chip that would support it.
The message you are seeing stating that you are not allowed to view the download area is because
that board is reserved for members that have donated or are paying. I'm not certain if donations alone
will open up the access so perhaps one of the moderators can tell you for sure.
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Here is what the sound system looks like:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fsound_board_components.jpg&hash=f04d64f6132a964c74c9d46704b359b5cf12f398)
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sound is provided by the P1 only - P2 is not for sound. The P1 has to have the ES option.
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sound is provided by the P1 only - P2 is not for sound. The P1 has to have the ES option.
Good info, thanks.
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wow thank you very much Ramegoom and Gos
So finally i measure the voltages :
ZC (zerodetect) goes from 0-12V that makes perfekt sense, cause MPU can detect Low voltage and 60Hz frequency (mains)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fi5S8BCw.jpg&hash=c44e352523e2ead2229f4105ab6f4e53325da288)
Next the UR voltage (unregulated)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FABPr8ME.jpg&hash=7e8b9463774ab9db6323a121abd28a76673bbda0)
The ripple 2V is really hard on top of the 12Volt approx.
The 5 Volt Testpoint in´t better, here the ripple Voltage is 0.8V and thats not perfect too, expecially if you look at the waveform,
the voltage regulator isn´t working correct (should be a line in theory and almost in reality)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyEiNI80.jpg&hash=aacf745dc85f4416e7980abe68b1bf91a35072ae)
finally a pticture of my supply pcb:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpHqqFyV.jpg&hash=a096cf707cbc8d486f28db1716a4a6ba8fedd820)
11700 uF is really a big can !
[blink]Are you measure the same like me on your pcb ?[/blink]
I´ve got the feeling that the bridge recifier is damaged ...
Cheers
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I have several of these machines, and the power supplies on many of them have given me all kinds of problems, but it seems mostly related to the solder joints on the pin connectors. These factory pc boards are single-sided, and are pretty unreliable because of that.
Although it's not too big of a deal to refurbish the original supplies, I found it was better to re-design the board, so I stepped up and replaced all of them on the machines I own. Also, the 2.2uF cap has been replaced with a higher value cap, bridge rec has been replaced with a larger, 25 amp part, and the big electrolytics have a higher temperature rating on the new design. Added an LED for good measure. Also, plated-thru holes were a big improvement to reliability.
Anyway, check the solder joints first, and check the full wave rectifier for leakage - or better yet, replace it. I believe it's an 8 amp part. Current rating doesn't really matter, they all run about the same temperature regardless of current rating, so use a good heatsink with silicone paste.
Old:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fpowersupply01.jpg&hash=08c6bc7debc61ca6a38520cea4c3ecf7844f3bb7)
and new:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramegoom.com%2Fjohn%2FE2000%2Fpower_supply_bally01-1200.jpg&hash=e7ff08a62fd923fda5fc74f48b5f76bb68c7039f)
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Ramegoom
You left out a couple of features of your board. First though not visible in the picture due the 5 volt regulator
heat sink is a small bridge rectifier that replaces then 4 single diodes. Should that part need replacing or if
the owner wishes he can use individual diode as you have already allowed for this. Next is that you have the
ability to use 2 large capacitors in parallel. 11,200 Mfd is somewhat hard to find but finding 2 6,000 Mfd is not
that difficult at all. Personally I like the flexibility of your design.
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Ha! Yeah, you're right Dan. I couldn't decide on the diodes, DIP or individual, so I put them both on it.
And the big cap, yeah, they're not so popular these days, so two smaller ones will work just fine.
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BJUTIFUL
really nice work Ramegoom.
the pcb looks perfect.
My pcb has dual bridge recifier, one with the heatsink (you can use an NTE53000 bridge) for the main power supply of the Mpu and other pcbs.
and 4 diodes forming an discrete bridge rec. for the ZC function.
unfortunately my multimeter are diying so I can´t ohm the diodes out. very sad.
I follow your hint and re- solder the Bridge and Connector. after that I put it back in the machine.
now I get the following after Switch on:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fh3ZkKUB.jpg&hash=25b491f0257c9d1db49053263e50c3480638132d)
so I switch off and after 2 seconds , on again,
now:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwfpmLV9.jpg&hash=73b518c8ae3447d8229d5244d28a0337545b73b8)
wow ! the 100002 Error seems gone :-))
enough for today, I rip the pcb out of the machine and will check all components tomorrow , with another multimeter...
think I get RANDOM results here on the Winmeter. They make no sense to me (compared with the manual)
@GOS
What and where can I choose to have an "ES" Option in the P1 ROM (jumper? )
Cheers
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the P1 program has the sound built in - what is the P1 number i can check and see if it has es. program 6 digit code written on the p1 label or do a test 6 and it will display on the win meter.
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I have about 20 E-series machines, and I know one of these machines has the sound system. The P1 is 585490 on an E-2090 machine. There is no P2 chip, and the M1, M2 and M3 chip part numbers are -80, -47, and -133 respectively.
Since you're into disassembling the chip data, I can send the binary for you to dissect, maybe find the ES data and graft it into your current P1 program. This could be an interesting project...
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the P1 you mention 585490 does not have sound - requires a P2 and uses reel strips 241-13,14,15
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Thanks for the lookup, GOS. I got these machines from a defunct casino, after being in storage for 15 years, and it may have a mix-and-match set of PC boards in it. When I boot the machine up, I get the alarm for the first five seconds (door open alarm), but no error codes present and the game plays normally, along with the reel spin sound and the win sound when it pays. Once it's booted up, it plays normally as far as I can see.
Do you know what P2 chip should be in it to match the P1 585490?
I have dozens of P1 chips and several P2 chips, maybe 6 different ones used between the other machines. All these different machines follow some sort of pattern for the M chips - mostly the same between them - but once you get to the higher M3 part numbers, seems to have use of both P1 and P2 chips.
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the M1 2 and 3 are reel spin and error handling - the higher numbers are only new versions replacing others - have nothing to do with P2 (these are for special options - progressives etc). if you post a list of the P1 I will tell you what strips they use and p2 etc. looks like a 701 p2 will work - 2401 too.
The M1 80 replaced the standard 46 for added security and eliminate 7X tilts M2 47 original - M3 133 eliminates 9X errors.
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Ah, good info. I just looked in my spreadsheet, and it appears the 585490 uses the 3701 P2 chip, which must be MIA on my machine. I'll have to take another look....!
Anyway, I have the following P1 chips, many of which I pulled of of a surplus lot of E2000 CPU's:
4A9483
1A9195
1A9091
1A6885
1A3090
655482
596394
585490
583784
568279
554190
550287
550288
540789
540090
485493
568177
450489
203279
183486
177589
162183
158483
155189
149085
147184
491986
455189
448390
Also have a number of P2 chips, seems the 3701 was most prevalent within the various machines I have.
Within this thread, there is a good deal of disassembly data starting to form. This could be a good info thread for understanding the programming.
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Upon further checking, the E2090-253 does indeed have the P2 chip. And I did a meter check on the P1, it comes up as a 585490. And the sound does work, coin-in, reel spin, win, and door open. It might be a freak combination?
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Ah, good info. I just looked in my spreadsheet, and it appears the 585490 uses the 3701 P2 chip, which must be MIA on my machine. I'll have to take another look....!
Anyway, I have the following P1 chips, many of which I pulled of of a surplus lot of E2000 CPU's:
4A9483
1A9195
1A9091
1A6885
1A3090
655482 225-371,2,3 3lp
596394 ?
585490
583784 239-136,7,8 es e2272-41
568279 234-321,2,3 3cm numerous P2 double progressive
554190 231-339,40,41 239-753,4,5 2cm e2090-128
550287 234-138,9,40 3cm e2090-120
550288 234-138,9,40 241-188,8,90 3cm e2090-119 es
540789 239-696,7,8 4coin other strips e2296
540090 3cm triple bar numerous strip es
485493 e2090-244
568177 234-318,9,20 3lp p2 numerous progressive
450489 241-188,9,90 3lp
203279 ??? ???
183486 ?
177589 ?
162183 239-765,6,7 5cm
158483 225-295,6,7,8 5cm
155189 234-183,4,5 3cm
149085 225-169,70,69,70 6cm p2 3701
147184 ?
491986 ?
455189 234-222,3,4 3cm
448390 234-219,220,221 more strips
the p1 with ? either are modified p1 (renumbered by someone - i do the same when I modify one) or later than my documentation.
the p1 with a letter imbedded are usually games with CREDIT meter. I have no doc on them.
the ones that are BOLD I could use copies for my use. (if you have a programmer - you can create bin files).
best i can do
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so I change the bridge recitifer, the 5V cap and add 2x 100nF ceramic caps around the IC to help
minimize HF oscillations.
This is recommended by the manufacturer of this voltage regulator.
if this board is´nt running, the big blue cap will fly away next :-)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLEvPjkR.jpg&hash=82dbe0650799f01eceaf2f42edf41b79e059dbca)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0DUtSvu.jpg&hash=82432efc2748a5afa1eb7ddd56b84d0ee68b5763)
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Now I track down my problem. The CPU is constanly reseting (with mains frequency)
On Pin 15 of J1, I get 12V with an 2V Ripple.
on CR4 Zener I measure 12v with 2v ripple on the left side, on the right side i get 5V with 2Vripple (the ripple is 2V and rides on the 3V line)
so the Transistor U21 Pin9 switches on and off with mains frequency.
so the same for U21 pin 14 transistor switchs the whole CPU Reset unit on/off with 20ms period (mains)
and the same for Q1 the Delay driver Transistor goes on and off with mains frequency.
The CPU is constantly resetet so it can never pass the memorytest program because in the middle it resets and begins
again. stupid.
The delayrelais never click because its cleared via pin 4 J1 before it make contact.
So now I´m out of strategy. I tested the power supply, but the (sawtooth) ripple cames from the Big blue C1 cap (powersupply) and I don´t know why.
the diodes are new, the recifier is new, the cap c2 and q1 of the powersupply.
So its time to replace the big blue cap on the power supply.
What did you measure on Pin15/j1 (MPU Board) ??
or C9 if you prefer (+ side) ??
Did you have ac or dc 10v ??
Cheers
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Did you check the two power supply regulators (and capacitors) on the MPU board? Those are responsible for the CPU and other components there.
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On my E2000 MPU board I measure about 8 volts on J1 pin 15 wit about 2 volts of ripple
CR4 I measure 8 volts on the cathode and 1-7 volts on the anode so the drop is 6.3 volts
which is correct for a 6.3 volt zener
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thank you dan.
the cap c1 didn´t help much only that now when I switch on the machine I get ". . . . . . . . . . "
"0 . . . . . . . . . . "
and after 1 sec.
"100002"
as always. Now I check the power watch circuit around CR4.
thanks for checking this out !
@ramegoom
thank you for that hint. the regulators are fine and putting out 5v with 0.1v ripple.
Next I will check the groundings. I have some rust under the screws that holds the mpu pcb.
Cheers
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Found a lot cold solder joints arround IC CA3081 transistor array.
Now MPU boots, but the testswitch isn´t working due to a 0....... Error.
What does this code ?
When I disconnect the driver board, I get an 4........ instead the 0....... Error
Whats wrong here ?
Please help.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FniOtCpv.jpg&hash=dc5460089d113e1de4bacc6dfbb29e6d2785bf6e)
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Odd display. Here are the memory or EPROM based codes.
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A lot of the errors that you are seeing seems to be consistent with memory errors. I would change U22
which is a CD4066. This chip is used to select the rams and I just fixed a board that was showing almost
the same error, mine was 1000006 (I think).
The 0..... may be caused by the same chip but could also mean the clock is not working so check
pin 5 of U31 for a 2 MHZ signal
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yes the 4066 is a crude method to tristate the Systemmemory from the MPU in case of powerloss or Reset during powerout or glitching via 555 monoflop circuit.
simple but working.
I piggyback the 4066 with an new one. usually with 74lsxxx chips this works but this is a analog ic. maybe its not so easy here.
So I think my proms are not OK and this is why it shows me a "4 . . . . ." but it isn´t.
I figured out how the Powerup Selftest on my E2000 is working:
L0091:
wrtd,r0 ; Port D (debugger?)
stra,r0 X1FFF ; an 1fff (load 00100000 in den shifter)
stra,r0 *X0061 ; indirect adresse from 0061/62 -> (1e80 !!)
stra,r0 X1FFF
coma,r0 *X0061 ;readback
bcfr,eq L0088 ; no then endless LOOP 100002 ERROR showing
coma,r0 X1E00 ; compare 1e00 (RAM Aera)
bctr,eq L0088 ; no ? then endless loop again.
birr,r0 L0091 ; yes? increment r0++ and back to 0091 memorytestloop !
L00A7:
lodi,r0 H'D3'
wrtc,r0 ; 100003 to winmeter "incorrect or no sencond rom" aka M-2 ROM
wrtd,r0 ;
loda,r0 X0F45 ; Debugger?
comi,r0 H'17' ; 0f45 = 17 if yes then you have a correct *lol* Prom M2 (only 1 byte is tested!!)
bcfr,eq L00A7
L00B2:
lodi,r0 H'D4'
wrtc,r0 ; 100004 to Winmeter "incorrect or no third ROM"
wrtd,r0
loda,r0 X17FE ; read 18 from memory location 17FE (3. rom) = 18 OK
comi,r0 H'18'
bcfr,eq L00B2 ; no ENDLesS LOOP !
L00BD:
lodi,r0 H'D5'
wrtc,r0 ; 100005 ans display "incorrect prom series, personality prom P1"
wrtd,r0
loda,r0 X1800
bctr,lt L00CA
comi,r0 H'56' ; 1800 = 56 ? (usually P1 ROM alaways 56 inside) *lol* one byte check
bcfr,eq L00BD ; JUMP if not to00bd (endless loop!!)
The Code 4..... isn´t coded in the computer.
So this should be a malfunction comming from ??? ??? ???
So I have to check the Interrupt system....
the odysea goes on ;-)
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Need help with the cc-16 coin comparitor.
which one to choose ? a 12vdc a 24VAC or 24VDC ? where did you get the voltage to supply ?
I don´t have the power connector in my slot so I have to take the power from the transformer ?
maybe the UR Pin from the power supply (11.8V AC) with four diodes and a cap to the cc16 12vdc.
*confused*
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Found the problem for the 10002 error.
after patching out the 10002 memory check program and patching the Romcheck function (because I alter the M1 Rom so I have to avoid a romchecksum)
the mpu stop with 10003 error (the processor see no second Prom aka M2 ROM in the slot )
exactly cpu looks 0f45 and looks for 0x17 if its written there, no 10003 error.
but in my case wrong value because adress line problems.
:duh: either the adressbusdriver are damaged or the cpu can´t write to the adressline (cpu damaged) or simply ic socket problem (no reliabe contact) :Scratch-Head:
The adressbusdriver ics are checked last year so its seems the processor.
But with one million operations per second its really hard to see something ...
Lucky if you have an Logic Analyzer. I don´t have such fancy things in my drawer :-(
Best thing is to build an NOP Generator so you can see the adresslines dancing on the oszilloscope.
wow its going on....