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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: Simple Sam on August 25, 2020, 09:12:39 PM
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I answered a local CL ad for a 956-17. Of course it didn't have keys and was broken but why wouldn't I be interested? It was in pretty good shape on the outside, a little bit of light rust but nice glass and reel strips. It has MGM glass and reel strips; I'm assuming it was from the MGM that operated in Reno from 1978 to 1986. A deal was made and I got it home. First things first, I drilled out the lock and lo and behold, it was very, very clean inside. I was concerned that maybe there were missing parts or significant rust but it appears to have either been used very little or had been refurbished at some time.
I haven't gotten into trouble shooting it yet. The lights operated but it rejects the coins. I'll have to do some testing later but I do have some initial questions.
I drilled out the lock to get into the machine. Although I was successful in drilling out the lock and getting it open, the lock barrel is still in place. Do I need to do anything further to get the barrel of the lock out? I assumed that once the nut was off the thread it would slip out but no such luck.
Taking a look at the picture attached, there's a bunch of wires that have been cut. I'm assuming that they weren't used on this model as I can't see where they would go. Any ideas?
I'm not sure what the part is called (see picture) but the "star" on the hopper is a mess. It appears that at some point in the past, a solvent was applied that softened the plastic that it is made from. It is very soft and I doubt that it would be able to bring coins into position without tearing itself apart. I need to know what the part is called and where I could possible get a new one.
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Hello,
If the nut is off the thread, just tap lightly from the inside and it should pop out. It may have been glued for all these years.
I am not sure but the cut threads do not seem original. Where are these wires going?
The star is called "coin agitator", but it is not necessary.
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I got the lock off. I thought that there was just the nut holding the linkage in place. I didn't realize that the lock itself had a separate nut to hold it in place. I guess that wasn't really too bright.
Anyway, I need to clean the machine and then start inspecting it. Although it is an exceptionally clean game on the inside, there is some lubricant(?) on the tracks for the hopper and reels that has become a sticky mess
I think I figured out why the game isn't accepting coins; the coin rejector is stuck in the reject mode.
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Well it really cleaned up nicely. What I thought was light rust on the chrome was actually just dirt! It looks great so now I just need to get it working.
First problem. I can't spin the reels as the handle is locked. I tried to manually release by using the two parts on top of the handle lock mechanism (actuating link assy? and?) both wasn't able to either with the reel assembly in place or not. I can easily do that on my 742A so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
Second problem. The coin circuit isn't working. As previously noted, the coin rejector is stuck in the reject mode (purple circle in picture). When I manually try the coin switch, it is dead. I can see that there is some kind of door open switch (red arrow in picture) that is operated by the(now removed) lock mechanism. Can I bypass this for now until I get the door lock replaced? There's a disconnected wire by the coin switch(blue circle in picture) that I can't figure out where it goes. There's no obvious missing wire on any of the switches or coils within reach.
What does work? The general illumination works. I checked the three fuses in back and they all appear good. There's no obviously disconnected wires on the reel assy or coin hopper. There's no obvious rust inside the game.
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956-17 schematic posted on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ (http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/)
note on the schem some hopper plug wire positions aren't used. To verify, you may want to unmount the hopper socket and flip it around so you can take a pic of the wiring and compare to the chart on the schem. I'd agree with nurbo that those wire colors are not what bally used.
on other 956 versions, some of the wires that were removed on the -17 were routed thru the odds disc and were for a jackpot meter, which you don't have.
unfortunately, my master list only goes to 956-16, so I'll have to dig and make some guesses to see if I have other docs like odds unit and reel wiper wiring diagrams.
if you can see what the 484-xxx numbers are on the three slotted reel index discs and post pictures of the reel wiper boards - both sides as best you can and especially the wiring on the top - that'll help.
pic of the odds unit wipers with odds unit reset as squarely as possible including the enough of the wiring around the edges to see the wire colors would be great too. [edit: never mind the odds unit, I found the diagram for that]
your payout counter disc probably says M-645-257 on it. Got a picture of it including the wiring?
the handle release relay should work the same as your 742. Is your handle frozen up?
for the coin circuit problem, yell if the schematic doesn't solve the problem.
the star agitator part number is R-526 if you want to look for one. There's a new one on ebay for $20 including shipping. Just search for "bally agitator".
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First big caution, it’s possible the lock bar could slide into the locked position when the door is closed.
Just beware.
Is the handle all the way back up?
Try pulling the handle then the release lever.
If the handle doesn’t move forward a bit first, something else is jammed.
Remove the front cover on the release mechanism.
Observed for any abnormalities.
Compared with the other machine.
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Check the back of the mechanism.
Lever position, spring or obstructions, coins or parts.
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I'm a bit overwhelmed with all of the issues and think I'm going to try to focus on them one at a time starting with getting the handle and reels to operate.
I took another look at it and fiddled with it a bit. Unfortunately, I don't know what I did but I was able to get the handle unlocked and the reels to spin. And then it locked up again and I can't unlock it. When the reels were spinning, they were spinning very slowly and I didn't hear the solid thunk of the wipers locking into the slots. It seemed like something was dragging, maybe the discs?
I carefully checked the back of the mechanism using a flashlight and inspection mirror and didn't note any obvious problem. Likewise, I removed the front cover to check for problems but it's pretty hard to see and I'm not sure what I'm looking at. It doesn't seem like removing the bearing stop plate assembly (Bally 2600, pg 45, part 33) is a good idea; I'm worried that once I get it off, retained parts could go flying. Since I was able to get it to spin once, I assume that I'm missing a step rather than there being some kind of obstruction.
And I have jammed a rag in the doorway so the door can't close and lock.
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Since the handle worked momentarily. No need to take the handle mechanism apart.
A latch or lever maybe gummed up.
Best to investigate with the reels out.
The lever in the back releases the handle to come back up.
Best to work on one problem at a time.
Regarding the slow reels and index arms.
The reel assembly probably needs a good cleaning.
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here's a video of what david said:
http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Handle_Release.m4v (http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Handle_Release.m4v)
I have an extra solenoid in front of the handle release relay that you probably don't have ... ignore it.
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Try cleaning the inside of the handle assembly with some penetrating oil.
Place rages under neither then apply small amounts where grease and grime have accumulated.
Do this a few times, remove all excess penetrating oil.
Apply 3 in 1 oil and a dab of grease or Vaseline on the ratchet parts.
Sometimes the the ratchet stop gets gummed up and won’t release.
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Success! I got some penetrating oil and blasted away at the handle mechanism. It now works just fine. I continued on and did the same with the reel assembly. The wipers would only slowly move when pulled against their springs. They now quickly move back as they should. So, the handle pulls and the reels spin and lock properly although I'll probably go back in a week or two and repeat the treatment.
The penetrating oil may be handy in the future. When I got the game open, it took a lot of effort to remove the hopper and reels due to the old lubricant being a sticky mess. I may have more sticky issues ahead of me.
Next step is to try to get the power back to the coin circuit. The first thing I'm going to do is clean the beau plugs as they are tarnished. I have ordered a stainless wire wheel for my dremel for the male plugs and a diamond file for the female plugs.
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Great,
Go easy on the plug pins and sockets. Myself, I lightly clean the pins at first.
Good idea to clean again.
When cleaning, take time to inspect everything.
Solder joints, springs, broken wires, contact points and any non factory connections made with black tape around it.
Start with the coin in switch relay, clean, check the contacts for proper alignment and continuity.
Then test machine.
Best not to make more than one adjustment or clean more than one switch stack at a time.
Until you’re real familiar with the machine.
Coin relay.
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The first thing I'm going to do is clean the beau plugs as they are tarnished. I have ordered a stainless wire wheel for my dremel for the male plugs and a diamond file for the female plugs.
the stainless steel wheel will work fine. It will shed some pieces. Slower speed and light pressure against the pins will help. You'll notice in a while if any of the wires flung off and stuck in you :-) Safety glasses are good ... it's no fun getting even a loose strand in your eye ... and yeah, I've done that more than once.
the socket is less of a problem since the pin sliding in tends to scrub the socket surfaces ... unless there's grease/oil/wd-40 residue in there which you'd want to flush out.
diamond file - do a test on something you can see like an unused plug pin and make sure it doesn't leave scratches at the pressure you are using. I guess the kit sjcsleeper pointed to on amazon shouldn't, but I've never seen anyone use something like that so post a pic before/after if you can.
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Post a photo of the beau-plug pins.
Including photos when possible makes it easier to comprehend situations.
Well lit iPhone photos work well.
Only problem sometimes is the size and the final orientation after posting.
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Here's a photo of the reel beau plugs. You can see they are oxidized. The hopper beau plug is similar. I'm also attaching photos of the other sides of the beau plugs. I don't see any obvious problems with the wire connections.
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And here's some pictures of the various switches. I'm not sure what they are supposed to look at. How do you clean the contacts on the switches?
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Beau-plug pins definitely need attention.
Switches look pretty good.
Machine overall from photos looks original and in good condition.
Judging by the solder joints and the lack of grease and oily stains.
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I seem to be missing the obvious.
I lightly cleaned up the beau plugs on the hopper and reel assy and reinstalled. Plugged the game in and nothing. As I'm pondering it, I decide to flip the switch that I have ignored because I don't know what it is for. The coin switch powers up and is kind of working. Initially, it was releasing the handle after every play without inserting a coin (or hitting the coin switch). It cleared up and was working correctly; hit the coin switch and the handle released. Then it stopped unlocking the handle and hitting the coin switch triggered the coin ejector (as did pulling on the locked handle).
The other good news is that the game is paying out on winning combinations. I haven't tested all combinations but the ones I randomly hit paid correctly. I am manually unlocking the handle. It is only playing one coin so that is another problem that I will need to address eventually.
The insert coin light doesn't work; I tried replacing the bulb to no avail. The winner paid and coin accepted lights work correctly.
What is the slider in the photo for? I assume that it is so an attendant can easily reset a timed out coin hopper but I'm not sure. It is loose and slides back and forth readily. I'd hate to once again miss something obvious.
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the toggle switch in the 3-hole bracket is probably just a power switch. The schematic doesn't show a power switch, but it wasn't uncommon for operators/casinos to add one since unplugging the machine to turn off power could be difficult.
your right on the slider. The delay relay should only time out if the hopper ran out of coins, and that was a manual reset after coins were added.
The coin switch powers up and is kind of working. Initially, it was releasing the handle after every play without inserting a coin (or hitting the coin switch). It cleared up and was working correctly; hit the coin switch and the handle released. Then it stopped unlocking the handle and hitting the coin switch triggered the coin ejector (as did pulling on the locked handle).
pulling the handle even when locked should open the dashpot switch. That will unpower the coin lockout coil and cause coins to be rejected.
holding down the coin switch also unpowers the coin lockout coil, but it should power again when you release the coin switch until you've stepped the odds all the way up.
if that's working, that's helpful as it only leaves three switches in the handle release circuit that could be a problem - besides the coil itself and plug connections.
green path in schem below is working, red path isn't.
the handle release switch is on the handle release relay, so check that first since it's easy to get to with the reels yanked out.
insert coin light check reel mech C-2 switch with grey/red wire 81-4 and yellow/brown wire 36-1.
the insert coin light should always be on unless the odds unit is stepped all the way up or the game is paying.
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This is a 1090 schematic, possible insert coin light switches that could be at fault.
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Is the first picture of the handle release switch?
Is the second picture the insert coin switch?
What am I checking for? How do I verify if they are good/bad or need adjusting/cleaning?
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Latch the coin relay switch then check the contacts.
It’s possible that the limiter bar is holding one or more contacts open.
See attached photo.
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oops david :-)
for the handle release issue, you want coin relay tripped like you show in your picture. The coin relay should be tripping or your coin accepted light wouldn't turn on. The below assumes the coin lockout is working so the game accepts coins when appropriate, but diverts them back out to the tray when the power is off.
got an ohmeter? it's handy to have alligator clip probes (or a jumper wire so you can clip a probe to a spot), as well as needle probes you can poke on wire solder joints.
If so, the circuit you care about starts are the blue/white wire on the leftmost switch blade(s) on the coin relay, so clip a meter probe on the bare wire connecting the two switch blades.
when the coin relay is tripped, you should see zero ohms on the white/red wire on the second switch blade. Either pull back the plastic insulator sleeve or poke the meter probe into the back of the sleeve far enough to touch the solder joint. You ideally don't want to probe the blades, but if you do, probe close to the stack to minimize the chance of the probe pushing the contacts together and making the connection work.
if you get zero ohms, wiggle the long blade a little and made sure reading stays a solid zero ohms.
next move the probe from white/red wire to the white/red wire on the C switches. The C switches are vertical and right above the coin relay switches. The white/red on C is the other end of the wire on the coin switch, so you better still see the same reading :-)
then move the probe from the white/red wire to the black/yellow wire on the C switch. Should still see zero ohms.
leave a probe on the blue/white wire and attach the other probe to the black/yellow wire on the handle release relay. Stick the reel mech back in with those probes connected and see if you get zero ohms.
this is where a continuity tester can lie to you. Once the reel mech is back in, there's other circuit paths thru coils possible. You want zero ohms ... or very close to zero. If you get a few ohms, you likely have a problem.
finally, move the probe from the black/yellow wire to the white/blue wire on the second blade from the top, again looking for almost zero ohms.
if you find a spot where the ohms value jumps up, you have a poor connection.
those are the three switches shown on the schem. You can skip any steps you like ... e.g. you can start with a probe on the blue/white wire on the coin relay and the other probe on the white/blue wire on the handle release relay.
another option is to probe the plug pins. The charts on the bottom left of the schem will show you where wires 25-1 and 83-1 are. Stick the probes there and you should see zero ohms when the coin relay is tripped. Manually reset the coin relay and you should get infinite ohms. If you do, the coin relay switch and reel C switch is probably fine, so that just leaves the plug connection and the handle release switch.
if you don't have an ohmeter but have a jumper wire, you can put one end on the blue/white wire and the other at whatever points along the circuit you want, stick the reels back in and see what the handle release does.
you probably dozed off by now, but if you don't find an issue, then it may be time to switch to voltmeter or jumpering wire 30 to points along the circuit and see when the handle release trips.
having said all that, most people just cause the switch stacks to operate by manually tripping/resetting the relays and watching the C stack during the reel spin. You'd look for switches that contacts barely touch each other and clean/adjust those for better switch action. If that doesn't fix the problem, then get the meter or jumper wire out.
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Right Wolftalk,
Assumed he was looking for information on coil relay switch adjustment.
I would still check the adjustment on the contacts circled in red.
Latch then observer contacts as they close, as they should move the corresponding contact
slightly in the same direction.
From the view in the photo the contact on the right could be moved to the left just a tad.
Also the blade could be aligned more parallel to its mate. In the photo it looks a little twisted.
Need to get back to square one.