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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: mark the spark on June 22, 2015, 04:43:21 AM
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like most of us I get a project 90% done and then move on to something else hence I have 4 machines almost there but all are waiting to be finished and mostly small things like a lock or a small piece of artwork needs restoring.
And in that spirit I have just purchased 2 bally 929 bally bingos for restoration.
they cost me quite a bit and the guy had 3 of them.
they have been stood for nearly 10 years the glasses are fine but the chrome is not so good and the frame that holds the belly glass is to far rusted to polish up so will be looking to replace those
the reel mech at the moment is as stiff as can be so will be removing cleaning and relubing,and
the pump arm needs cleaning.
there is some surface rust inside but will all clean up I have only had a quick look at these but all looks there so if anyone like old reno has worked on these or if you own 1, do you have any advice ,anything I should look out for and I`m going and try to complete these 100%
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more pics
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Well done on getting your hands on them Bingo's :applause: , keep us posted on how you get on, can you switch from hopper to credit play on them via a key switch on the side?
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hi thompy
have not got around to plugging them in yet but it does have a button by the credit meter
I thought at first theres a lot of key locks on it but the top 2 hold the glass in place !!!!
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ok so far have just stripped the hopper of all the electrics as some of the rust on it is worse than it looks and I am going to clean it in my homemade electrolytic tank (found this on the web)
will leave it for approx. 2 days and then remove to see how its doing I would love to live in a dry climate where rusting is not a problem but the climate here is often damp and so is a big problem espically with the belly glass trim and the feature glass trim normally there is no chrome left on these.have added a couple more before pics
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Good job, look forward to seeing the after pictures Mark, as you say the glass trims are usually the worst, I hate rust with a passion, trying to remove it the worst part of restoring electro Bally's.
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I've used electrolysis from a small solar PV panel to remove rust from iron, and it works ok.
However I just read about using citric acid as a remover, and you mix it with water and let your parts set in it for awhile, and SUPPOSEDLY it will take off rust. Have not tried it however...yet.
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Very good and rare find! The pictures really gave us a great felling of what you have in front of you. I looked at the top glass of that beast and it seems to me that you need a math PHD and a Chines abacus to determine if you have a win in some cases. I have NEVER seen these on a casino floor. Were they exports to a smarter population?
Please do share with us the final results. For these a video link is a must. As for the parts of the highly rusted pieces, if you can not get the replacements PM me for a few phone numbers.
Please keep us posted
Ra
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thank you all, will keep you all informed how things are going and I haven`t worked out the pays yet!!!
and so to the first problem: the air piston is quite stiff in action the piston has been cleaned and I have run it dry and slightly lubricated the rubber looks in good condition almost new but it wont return fully and needs a bit of a tug to get it there
now is there anything I can do ? or will the action be better when the reel mech is reinstalled in the machine
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a little drop of oil on parts that rub together is always a good thing.
And there's lots of parts that rub together....
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ok only just started and problems :duh:
someone managed to break the lighting fuse inside the holder then to make matters worse the bottom of the fuse holder broke so have had to make a temporary fuse holder up
have cleaned and reassembled the hopper and cleaned the reel mech
powered up the machine and now feeling a bit out of my depth :Scratch-Head:
the score motor in the top feature runs continuous so my first problem is to stop this running I know its not powered through the reel mech as even with the mech out it runs so need to sort this first
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Look to see if there is a relay that turns that on...
Also, Look to see a switch that is not opening. some of those units had a switch on a lobe that would automatically turn the unit off after one cycle.
PICS??
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hi reno will go through the top feature switches and clean them had a look in the bally book and the top feature looks almost identical to the super continental I know from an old post i found that the payouts are done a different way using + and - through diodes on the pay cards but am hoping to source a schematic for it
will post some pictures of the top feature later
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I think I am there but can anybody explain the credited system my book says available in automatic payout and in replay model
am I right to believe in credit mode, any wins are registered to the credit meter, now if you say get up to 200 credits can you cash this out? or would you have to get an attendant to come and switch it to pay you out?
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Don't know having not worked on them, but,
it would seem if you try to cash out over 200 coins, it would go into a jackpot situation, and require a key-off...
?
I dunno...
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hi all have solved the problems (well I hope so)
the key by the handle was making the score motor run continuous because it was left in the wrong position.when the key is turned forward this latches a relay in (mechanically) and runs the credit meter down.now I am assuming when playing the machine and you have had enough you must call the attendant over who the turns the key and runs the meter down when zero is reached you turn the key back and the machine is ready again.
when the meter runs down the hopper never turns no matter which position either key is in,this is why I am assuming that this was attendant paid.
the key at the bottom of the machine switches it to either credit play or automatic payout mode
in auto payout mode the machine plays like an ordinary machine .
now all that's left is a good clean up of the machine some rust removal a bit of oil and grease and its good to go.
according to the book there are 95 ways to win and having played it I`m still not sure what I have one on!!!!
you really need all lamps in the top glass working, as when the reels stop it lights up the numbers on the reels on the glass, but some of the lamps are loose so any tips on keeping the lamps tight would be much appreciated
I did read somewhere on the forum that these top feature machines are quite noisy and they really are
will post some before and after photos and when finished will post a video on youtube
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Suggestion .... with a classic machine, I feel it is importaint to replace the original 44 or 47 lamps with led's that is used behind painted glass. The heat from the older bulbs is so much hotter than leds and will cause the paint to lift of peel away from the glass. I also use Kylon triple thick clear to protect it from peeling or lifting in the future.
This is just a suggestion, and if you try the spray ... practice on a regular piece of glass to get the hang of it.
Dave F
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cheers dave will look in to leds as filled it with lamps then the fuse blew!!
theres a problem there somewhere, in the top feature there are 22 lamps lit at any one time
also who stocks led lamps ?
will try the spray as the artwork on the glass is in tip top condition
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Mark:
As usual Dave is correct. The LED lights make a BIG difference in brightness and reduced heat. I did buy the clear coating spray but I did not use it on a slot machine glass yet. Chicken I guess.
I get my LED bulbs from www.cointakerled.com (http://www.cointakerled.com). I always call them since their web site confuses me. Good luck.
Ra
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:EmoticonHelp4:seems ballys are never quite fixed more running for now
need a pointer. the odds follower is not switching up and the coin in switch is doing nothing in either mode
was working till I was looking at the odds follower as the 4th coin in was not lighting up found one of the blades not making good contact then when I switched back on back to non working :duh:
so was looking for pointers where to look ?
also back to lighting there are 92 lights in the top feature!!!
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Look at the odds disc itself for no 4th coin light, probably not the odds follower.
Try tapping on your coin in switch with a small screwdriver to see if that fixes it.
Whatever it is you changed, change it back...??
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I use Aluminum Foil. Take a sheet, roll up into a ball & Rub. Most Rust will come out. if I remember correctly, dip in water once in a while and wipe off the dust?
Good Luck on your project.
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I use 0000 steel wool and never had any problems with it.
Take the rust and other junk off and leaves a shine.
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just a quick thanks to reno for his top tip one quick tap with a screwdriver and it was done :applause:
next job to get lamps working consistently and paint the backdrop bright white
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hi haven`t abandoned this project been a busy time son got married and I have revamped the workshop
so was going to ask you all a question on restoration
would you paint a smallish part that's has been derusted or would you leave the finish as it is?
only I was thinking of painting the smaller parts with silver metal paint after rust removed because the
metal always looks pitted or black have a look at the picture of the rusty parts do you think they would look ok? opinions most welcome
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ok have nearly finished (pics to follow)have reassembled but have a problem with the machine not being in the ready to play state
it will play on the register or will switch to hopper payouts but only after I make the reset relay in the top feature if I manually tweek this it will play as should but at the end of the game the machine will not reset, coins will not be accepted or it wont count down/accept credits from the register
anyone know where I should be looking first?
I have metered all the switches on the reel mech and on the bottom cabinet all seemed fine
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still require help have got the machine working and playing from the register now
problem 1: this is a 1 to 6 coin but when playing machine only pays half so if playing 1 coin on minimum win only pays 1 coin on playing 6 coins minimum win only pays 6 instead of 12 would I be right in assuming the odds follower not working if so what drives it?
problem 2: any tips or tricks for this type of lamp holder they always seem loose then the lamp goes out till you wiggle the lamps they come back on (see photo)
problem 3:which is more a follow on from renos comment about measuring 60v to the frame
when I renewed the mains cord I put the earth to frame under the hopper plug but it caused allsorts of problems which went when I removed the ground but I still measure 50v to frame
its causing no problems but should it be there?
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Short probably should not be there, but if causing no problems, well, it works.
However try removing each unit one at a time and then checking to see when the short disappears. This will help you isolate where the short is.
I think odds follower is associated with the hopper reset and zero switch closing... but hey, don't have one handy to tell you for sure.
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for your lamps, try rubbing the end of the light socket briskly on your levis and that will clean the soft metal to allow better contact. Also you can carefully bend up (into the socket) the tab that makes contact with the bulb end.
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thanks for your input reno ,still not solved the payout to the credit meter yet but strangely it pays correctly when you switch it to cash so slowly working my way through the switches testing and cleaning add ed a couple of photos
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very nice job
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Looking really well, you've spent a good while on that metal work, looking good. Like the way you've added breakers, nice touch :applause:
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The breakers are a great touch. I have not blown a fuse in years but when I do I would rather simply throw my breaker. The metal work is just short of magic!
Ra
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hi guys still plugging away at this, as you know pays ok on cash but not on credit to the register.
after chat with thompy we think that schematic for super continental 891-1 and 894-1 wont be to far off the mark the relays in slightly different order but open to opinions
so when it pays cash say on 2 coins played its a 4 coin win. hopper pays 2 resets pays 2 again then stops.
whilst hopper is paying, in the top feature (I`m gonna call them) relay 4 (p.o insert not sure what that stands for) relay 5 (odds follower) and relay 10 (safety) are all in play and the score motor rotates.so when the hopper pays 2 the odds follower then advances 1 and the hopper pays 2 again
i`m almost sure (it happens fast) r4 pulls in along with r5 and r10 when it pays 2 relay 4 drops out but r5 and r 10 stay in the odds follower advances 1 and pays further 2 coins as expected hopper stops and awaits next game
now when we switch to credit meter play relays 4, 5 and 10 all come in, it will pay 2 to the meter then the wipers advance on the hopper to the 2 position relays drop out and the machine is ready for next game.
it seems to me theres no signal to reset hopper or should that be its next action?
I am still sure its a switch that should be open or closed but I cant see where the difference in pays from hopper or pays to meter is , any suggestions anyone with 891 -1 or 891-4 schematic could point me in the right direction
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okay Mr spark I do not have a PDF of the 891 here's some pictures I'll try to get it scan next week when I go to the city
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thanks for those pics ovenguy will give me something to think about :thank_you:
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I will try to get to town and get it scanned in this week I finally got my house on the market yesterday
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I will try to get to town and get it scanned in this week I finally got my house on the market yesterday
so have you finished moving your machines to MI?
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Yes the ones I did not sell maybe 15 left
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ok mark the spark the PDF file for the wiring diagram for the 891 - 1 is in the file system with the rusty Em-files you can go there and look
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cheers ovenguy your a star im sure its do with the odds follower or odds follower relay but not sure of the relationship between cash and credit apart from the switches at the bottom of the machine where you switch between the 2
I have been tracing some of the circuits out just a little bit more to find on odds follower relay
anyways :thank_you:
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OK still trying to get credit pay to work still only paying half. have worked out that the solenoid on the back of the payboard pays to the credit register this is electrically controlled through the score motor. here is a link to youtube video of the wipers in action http://youtu.be/lvPRzvccfVE (http://youtu.be/lvPRzvccfVE)
the machine is on a 120 win on 6 coins the fingers will finish just off the 20 pay
now seems to me its paying 6 credits 20 times does that sound right?
also do you think that the wipers are slipping? which would mean that the wipers would would reach the 20 pay sooner than it is meaning it would pay less?
all opinions/ideas welcome !!!
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Hi There..
Looks like the wipers are jumping more than one step in the beginning of the paycycle,shortening the pay..
i would check the spring on the rear of the payout disk,and maybe tighten it a bit in order to give it more resistence...
a chek of the "zero-stop" could also be a way to solve parts of the problems
i would recommend to take the payout unit apart and de-grease it and re -lube it/ adjust it,otherwise it will continiue to make all kinds of smal underpays/overpays in the future
Old Reno has some good tips and tricks on the issue eleswhere on this forum (dont know how to make a link) :banghead:
Hans
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hi all still plugging away heres a couple more photos
adjusted the reel wipers for 4th and 5th reel they were the same, was surprised how loose the screws were on all the reels for adjustment so tightened them all up its not fixed my half pay problem though!!!
painted the light board and am going to invest in leds am going to do the payout numbers first to see what it looks like going to go with 25 white, 4 yellow for the for the 4 corners, and the super line I thought would do in reds
printed out ovenguys manual but done it as poster came out as 22 pages but I can see it better
since printing out can see that credit payout does not involve the odds follower just the odds disc it racks up credit through the score motor driving the register stepup coil and the payout counter
stepup coil so will look at payout counter and score motor switches next
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Keep up the great work. I can't wait to see the results with the colored LED'S. I put the white ones in my games and it makes a big difference. Adding colors should be interesting. Thank you for the update.
Ra
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Be sure to use the non ghosting leds.
DAve F
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What kind of LED is that? Never heard of that one.
Ra
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They make a non ghosting LED for use in machines that when they cycle, they cause the regular LEDs to flicker. These stop the flickering. Mostlly the GI lamps are fine, but the ones that cycle are the ones that will "Ghost" Check with Cointaker for info on that. Thats who I buy all my LEDs from.
Dave
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hey Dave would you send a link I'm not ready to buy but my house is in escrow and I'm off to Michigan soon
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http://cointaker.com/ (http://cointaker.com/)
That will take you there. I would like to see pics when its done.
Dave
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Cointaker is who I use also for the LED purchase. I bought 10 bulbs at the Allentown show several years ago. I liked them so much I bought 100 after I got home and liked what I saw in my games. They were nice enough to give me the show price which is significantly less than the web site prices. Light em up!!!
Ra
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fitted some led`s have only changed the numbers and the letters that spell bingo
the bottom line are all red and although in the photo don't look it they are very good when lit up
4 corners on the super card are yellow not sure about them at the moment the whites are warm white but there good have attached some photos but might have to do it over 2 posts
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couple more winning combo and you can see the yellow 4 lit
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Great Job! That's what I did on my games. Careful placement of the LED's really give the machines pop. In a continental cabinet like in my Arrowline and Medalist all LED's could cost a small fortune. BTW I went all LED lights in my home as well.
Ra The cheap tree hugger
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In most circumstances, you can use color LED's and they really enghance the color. Spometimes it is too over poweing and can was out the text. Worth a try .... Yellow, green, blue and read can be really intense.
dave F
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well I finally cracked it and at the moment its counting correctly to the credit meter.
I think with a complicated machine I was expecting a complicated problem.
but narrowed it down to the hopper.
re-reading old renos tips on hoppers he states "a loose torsion spring can cause double step causing underpay " if you watch the video of the payboard this what is happening.
so lets give that torsion spring a 1/4 turn :24: but no its a complicated machine so it has 2 cogs on the back the top one screwed on from under the bottom one so after taking all apart and cleaning, rebuilt with tightend spring, reinsert hopper we blow the 50v (lucky we fitted a breaker) reset, nope 50 v still blowing. pull hopper go over it looking for a shorted wire but find feed on pay disc is reading dead short to frame (earth) :Scratch-Head: after much testing as to wether the hopper or something outside was causing it, we establish it was indeed the hopper causing problem finally traced the fault as you can see in the picture (yes realise it was probably last thing I did causing fault but sometimes u don't think logically)
anyways back up and running couple more bits to sort
1 lockout coil not working
2 safety timer to repair reinsert
3 would like to fit new wiper on hopper
4 sort out coinage
5 some more led lamps plus some #55
6 post video of machine playing on credit then cash
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nearly there not going to replace lockout coil, managed to find an imonex coin acceptor so coin acceptance rate is good and have posted 2 videos on youtube not the best videos and please excuse my accent have about 5 more led lamps to go in but as I have started the 2nd bingo I will replace them when I get some more here is link to both vids
https://youtu.be/xw2nQagirSc
https://youtu.be/0DnGYb1UGaY
hope you enjoy!!!
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Love that machine ... good job. Are you in the states and what are you going to do with the second one when you fix it? Yes I am in the states Philadelphia and have a bunch of EM ballys and possibly could find a way to get the machine from you if your interested. Please free to PM me.
Dave F
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Mark:
I watched the videos over and over and that machine is amazing. The lights were moving like something from back to the future. Since I am a bell and bars man it would take me forever to understand that pay scale. A beautiful and rare gem indeed. Enjoy it!
Great job
Ra
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Brillant job Mark, well done!
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If you ever want to part with one of the bally bingo cabinets please let me know Thanks scott
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unfortunately scott I am in England but having seen your games room on youtube I am thinking of divorcing the wife and coming to live with you !!!!
any spare rooms?
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Thanks for your reply
Sorry I don't have any extra rooms
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I know, old thread, but may be best to keep it all together.
look in http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/929 (http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/929) for paperwork on this odd game. In particular, the tech info pdf has interesting stuff about the use of diodes and there's diagrams for many of the contact plates as well as the schematic.
to make this more interesting, below is how they controlled all those lights on the upper glass.
and yeah, I was philslot :-)
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hi thanks for the information some good stuff there :thank_you:
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sorry to bump an old thread but:
:applause: