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Author Topic: bally 929-1 restoration  (Read 8132 times)

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Offline Peter321

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2022, 08:18:59 AM »
I have been testing and thaught I measured 58 volt on connecting 31-10 (16 male plug cabinet nr 5 left row) and 2 payout strip , so started cleaning payout counter unit; all seems to be clean, but cleaned anyway wiper and disc; after putting everything together I noticed that when resetting the small "white wheel"on counting brackets came back totally, when first this part moved totally back only after first move step up plunger. but checked first voltage again and now only 5-8 volt, so first measurement maybe not ok.
Start working on reel mechanism andall diodes seems to be ok; testing now the combinations as mentioned in explenation disc wiring; found few problems, but then realised I need to follow strictly the scheme with reels and numbers and not only the payline  :banghead:
let you know results later after getting courage again

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2022, 11:10:03 AM »
didn't really understand everything in your last post:

when resetting the small "white wheel" on counting brackets came back totally, when first this part moved totally back only after first move step up plunger

you mean the disc connected to the reset pawl (red arrow in pic below)?  If yes, when the reset coil powers, the pawls lift off the ratchet/gear teeth and lock in that position until the first step-up coil activation.

if the pawls don't lock but fall down onto the ratchet AFTER the wipers are fully reset, then switches will be in the wrong state:

1] the winner light will be on when it should be off - "payout counter reset pawl" switch on schem

2] win multiplying will have issues - "payout reset arm switch" on schem

... different names for the same switch stack.  The people drawing the schematic would start with other schematics and make changes, so they weren't always consistent.

if the pawls fall onto the ratchet teeth while the wipers are resetting, they will stop the wipers and the game won't pay correctly.  Usually the pawls not locking when reset is caused by dried lubrication on the pivot points on the step-up/reset arms.

I have been testing and thaught I measured 58 volt on connecting 31-10 (16 male plug cabinet nr 5 left row) and 2 payout strip

that's what you should measure when the reels have a 2-pay winner on the payline and it doesn't matter where the wipers on the payout unit are.  Payout ends when the wipers step off the end of the 2 trace, but the trace itself is still powered until you play a coin or manually move the reels.

when the game doesn't pay correctly for the symbols on the payline, a good check is measuring the voltage between wire 31-10 and the payout disc trace for the win amount.

Offline Peter321

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2022, 12:01:45 AM »
Thanks for extensive reply; I indeed was mentioning the disc on the photo, before cleaning it was acting like you described, now it does not, so was not sure what behaviour must be; it is clear now and I have work to do there.

In process of measuring the payout lines according text explanation disc wiring I found different results with meter in diode position. For three in a row sometimes apprx. 0,6v, which should be ok; sometimes 0,08, which is not ok and sometimes no measurement. Need to check the other combinations and see what it brings


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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2022, 01:50:38 PM »
story continues! I have found with meter on diode setting, measuring the different paylines as mentioned in the text explanation on how the wipers are working, different values from no measurement, 0.06 , 06 , and 1.13 volts and I could not understand it. All diodes seperately measured are ok with 0.6 in one direction and nothing in other direction.
I discussed it with friend and he suggested to take a different way: on wire 90 I have put 15 volt dc neg, connect this to resistor and testing probe, 15 v pos connected to other end resistor with also testing probe.
measuring if there is voltage between wire 90 and, depending on reel combinations, the wire number as mentioned in text, like pay 3 is 90 > 13
In only 3 cases I found votage zero, all other were ok between 11.8 and 14.3. The three zeros could be traced back to wipers on disk 3, which were not in line and to loose, corrected wiper tension and now all seems to be ok.
next step will be checking wire 31-10 with 90 in fully build machine

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2022, 11:26:51 AM »
what did you use for a power supply? 

I'd guess a 9V battery and a lamp would work as well.  Connect - terminal of battery to wire 90, + terminal to one side of lamp, other side of lamp to appropriate payout wire.

if circuit is ok the lamp lights.

'course ... I haven't actually tried it :-)

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2022, 09:26:44 PM »
I was supplied with a 15 volt dc powersupply, which did the job

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2022, 10:40:59 AM »
I am working now on the reset pawl as seen in picture; when resetten the pawls are not locking; is there a simple way to adjust ?
In manuals it is written to adjust, but not how and there is the warning that bending will break the pawls
Any advice is very welcome

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2022, 02:36:37 AM »
situation is as follows: reel wipers tested and are ok, reset pawl on payout couter is locking now on reset, all male plugs top cabinet have continuity with female plugs, all lights on paytable are lit according corresponding reel numbers, manually coining up with coinswitch works, handle pull is ok, as far as I can see all switches seems to be ok, reset/jackpot keyswitch counts down register to zero,
credit button is working and when used every time odds motor returns 1 cycle, during counting down register  odds motor is cycling.
But:
With any pay combination hoppers starts working and never stops till safety becomes active;
when switch payout/replay is switched to replay any paycombination will activate counting register, but it does not stop counting.

Maybe something simple but I am missing it, any advice would be welcome

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2022, 04:40:09 PM »
for both coin and credit pay the payout counter needs to step up.

if it's not stepping, the game should eventually shut down - after a few coins in coin play.

one of the less common things about the game is the payout counter is mechanically stepped in coin pay mode and electrically stepped in credit mode.

I guess I'd start with coin mode.  Is the payout counter stepping as coins exit the hopper? 

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2022, 07:37:44 AM »
I have taken hopper out and checked coins, I am using 2 eurocent, with diameter 18,75 mm (use the same in E 2407 machine)
The coin fits on hopper ring when I lift the upper”  barrier” a little bitt,  the step-up arm is moving, but the “wheel” is moving not high enough, so counting only occurs sometimes and not regular.
Tried to put small piece of wood on top of setup arm , just above spring to make plunger already moved in down direction, but than the rachet is not coming free from the plastic wheel.
See pictures
Is there a trick?
Looks like the hopper disc’s for coins are not in line with stepup mechanism as larger coins will not fit disc’s and smaller coins do not push stepup wheel high enough
Stepup arm manually works ok

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2022, 02:48:19 PM »
hopper runing, due to limitations NLG the quality is poor; setup arm is lifted fraction too low for good moving payout counter

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2022, 06:19:43 PM »
the arm is adjustable to lower/raise the roller via a couple screws that attach the arm to the hopper.

there are limits tho.  If the coin diameter is too small/big, the correct fix was to install the appropriate disc that the coins ride on.

in credit mode, the payout counter is electrically stepped and the roller arm doesn't matter.

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2022, 08:57:25 AM »
thanks again Wolftalk, great!
I was able to adjust the lower/raise of arm a bit and now it seems to work now on the bench, although at a certain point there are some missteps as rachet passes the pawl at the position which is also the endstop. was not able to test yet in machine with winning payline.

in credit mode the register is not stopping counting; does this mean that still payout counter is not ok or can I check elsewhere?
tried to follow scheme, but got caught with odds motor

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2022, 10:21:32 AM »
the ratchet teeth are worn?  The ratchet has 100 teeth and the unit is capable of reliably stepping 200 times (some games 250).  If it missteps, the pays will be wrong.

in credit mode, the step-up arm on the payout counter is moved by the B-26-1100 step-up coil pulling in the plunger instead of the link to the roller arm pushing in the plunger.

check the step-up coil resistance ... should be around 9.5 ohms.

the odds motor is just sending pulses to the replay register and payout counter step-up coils at sometimes different rates.

unless you are playing 5 coins, an odds motor cam 5 switch is sending pulses to the replay register.  The odds unit is picking which cam switch is pulsing the payout counter.

for example, when 1 coin is played a different cam 5 switch is pulsing the payout counter, so the register and counter are stepping up at the same time.

when you play two coins, a cam 4 switch is pulsing the payout counter.  It's probably no surprise that cam 4 has 1/2 the lobes as cam 5, so the payout counter steps once for every two credits added ... effectively doubling the payout.

if the payout counter step-up coil doesn't fire, try playing a different number of coins so a different odds cam switch is used.  If none of them work, the coil is bad, the wiper->rivet connection on the odds disc for wire 25 to the cam switches feeding wire 91 is bad, or there's a plug connection/wire issue.

in coin mode, the 929 uses an odds follower stepper unit.  When you play 2+ coins, the machine resets the payout counter when the pay completes and it pays again.  It will do the reset-an-pay-again N-1 times, where N is the number of coins played.

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2022, 01:27:48 PM »
ratchet has slight degradation on one spot, but try to flatten it out with nail file.

although I tested all coils when I got the machine the solderpoint with the 70 wires on the setup coil was weak and broke off just like that and damaging the coil contact; Have ordered new coil.

thanks for explanation on the odds motor, all is slowly becoming more clear !  :applause:

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2022, 08:22:34 AM »
update: replaced coil b-26-1100 on payout counter; machine works now in replay and payout mode and is counting on register and paying coins, need to check if amount is what it should be.
the mixer relay and override selenoid on hopper are not working, seems no problem.

in credit mode every push of credit button ups coin from 1 to 6, bit every time odds motor is rotating and needs to wait before other credit can be used.
in payout mode sometimes adding coins goes ok from 1 to 6 and lights inserted coin and insert coin keeps on till 6th coin; sometimes odds motor is rotating after each coin and during running coins light are off.
also payout is done in "groups", like 4 coins is 2 times 2 with small time in between.

odds motor sometimes rotating and sometimes not on adding coins from 1 to 6 looks like bad switch somewhere
could that have to do with override selenoid/mixer relay?

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2022, 10:56:14 AM »
the mixer relay and override selenoid on hopper are not working, seems no problem.

the hopper mixer relay is not a big problem.  It's just running the hopper motor to level the coins.  The game pays frequently enough that it shouldn't be an issue.

the override solenoid not working in payout (coin pay) mode is a problem.  You will get overpays because the hopper doesn't stop instantly when the power is turned off if you have the old style hopper with the plastic ball float.  A coin or two will be ejected as the hopper coasts to a stop, when ordinarily the override solenoid deflects those extra coins back into the hopper bowl.

the mixer relay and override selenoid on hopper are not working, seems no problem.

in credit mode every push of credit button ups coin from 1 to 6, bit every time odds motor is rotating and needs to wait before other credit can be used.

odds motor sometimes rotating and sometimes not on adding coins from 1 to 6 looks like bad switch somewhere
could that have to do with override selenoid/mixer relay?

the odds motor cams always turn 360 degrees (I think .. keep forgetting to look.  If there's two notches on cam 1, then it's 180 degrees).  A cam 1 switch is a "carry-over" switch ...it keeps the motor powered after something else started it until the cam 1 switch stack falls back into the cam notch.

if a replay button push/release ... or worse, playing a coin ... causes the odds unit to step multiple times, then possible causes are:

- the replay relay is powering when it shouldn't ... e.g. replay relay switch with 30 and 83-1 is stuck closed
- replay relay switch with wires 30 and 80-2 is stuck closed
- relay button switch stuck closed and there are credits on the replay register (or replay register zero switch misadjusted).
- short circuit someplace

tmi
---

- the odds unit steps up when the odds relay powers and unpowers.
- in replay mode, pushing and releasing the replay button will power the replay relay ... which keeps itself powered until an odds motor cam 4 switch opens.
- when the replay relay is powered, an odds motor cam 3 switch will power/unpower the odds relay to step up the odds unit
- if you hold in the replay button, the offset lobes on cam 3 and cam 4 will step up the odds unit rapidly.


in coin payout mode, the replay relay should never power if the replay register is 0000.  If there are credits, the replay relay will work even in coin mode.

in payout mode sometimes adding coins goes ok from 1 to 6 and lights inserted coin and insert coin keeps on till 6th coin; sometimes odds motor is rotating after each coin and during running coins light are off.

the lights should be off when odds motor is running.  Check odds motor cam 1 switch with wires 91-2 and 38 and make sure replay mode switch with those wires is open in coin payout mode.

also payout is done in "groups", like 4 coins is 2 times 2 with small time in between.

that's correct in coin payout mode.  If you play multiple coins, the game pays the single coin amount, resets the payout counter and pays the single coin amount again.  The reset and pay again happens N-1 times, where N is the number of coins played.  The resetting of the payout counter causes a small delay ... so as you said, payout is done in "groups".
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 09:30:42 PM by wolftalk »

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2022, 02:04:11 PM »
Thanks Wolftalk
As usually very helpfull.

The hopper mixing relay and override relay seems to be out of order on purpose, so I will first start concentrating on odds motor problem.
Will keep you posted

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2022, 07:27:51 AM »
Small update: in replay mode all seems ok, except winner paid light is mostly on.
In payout mode paying is done not constant according wintable and winner paid light keeps burning.

When resetting payout unit by hand through reset coil, the reset pawl is locking correctly, so ratchet is “ loose” and can rotate free, when using set up arm the pawls make contact with ratchet as is should be. Problem is that in game the reset plunger is moving with much more force, so pawls are not able to interlock and winner paid light stays on;
So need to find solution for that

Override coil is working, but coins are maybe too small and not all are kicked back by override arm and sometimes stuck under roller, which causes counting problems. Hopper disc is marked A 0 , but I do not have other disc, so have to work around it.

Next is to make sure all lampsockets are working well, so bulbs stay on when running machine
Thanks again for all support

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Re: bally 929-1 restoration
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2022, 10:59:36 AM »
below is the winner paid lamp circuit.

the "payout relay insert" is a payout relay in the top compartment.  It is powered when the payout relay on the hopper is powered, and when powered wire 72 connects to 45, so the winner paid, coin accepted and insert coin lamps are all disconnected.

check the switch on the payout relay insert that has wires 72, 91-2 and 45.  Make sure the blade with wire 91-2 isn't still connected when the relay is powered.  You can also try sticking a piece of paper between the contacts ... if the lamps still turn on, you have a short.

lamps burning up imply a short - but a short in most of the circuit would affect the coin accepted and insert coin lamps also.   Fwiw, the only difference between replay mode and payout mode is the replay key switch, so take a look at that for shorts between blades or a solder drip.

wrt the coins and override solenoid, it looks like the diverter plate is too high so coins aren't getting deflected off the pinwheel.  Take a look at https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/hopper_diverter/

if that's the problem, to adjust the diverter/kicker so it is lower you bend the entire metal plate the override assembly is mounted on.  The curved diverter plate must hit the top of the coin.  See second pic below - adjustable wrench grabbing the plate.  Also note a cordless drill attached to the hopper motor armature - easy way to spin the pinwheel without powering the hopper.

 

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