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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => WMS Reel Games => Topic started by: ucanwin on June 01, 2019, 04:13:47 PM
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This machine has not been working since Dec. of last year. Many parts have been replaced. It has been coming up Dot Failed. I just installed replacement XU-17, XU-18, XU30 and XU-31 chips and now have a different problem. Now I am getting TILT, ronn in the credit window, Sound in the Win window and 0 in the coins played window.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?
It has a new power supply in the lower unit, the board under the lower power supply has been replaced with a working board, the upper power supply is working. All 5 red led lights on the right are lit, none lit on the left side. None of the player buttons are lit or the area to the right of the reels.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Sound Rom issue? SOUND EPROM. Maybe a bad chip or bent pin?
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Hi,
Thanks, for your reply.
I pulled the sound chips and there are no bent pins. The 4 sound chips are new. Also, there is no bong when machine is powered up.
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You stated that many parts have been replaced trying to fix this and then say that you put in new XU 17, 18, 30, and 31 chips. Those are the chips that handle the sound files. And if you are now getting a ROM SOUND error, at least one of those chips are bad. Put your old chips back in as those 4 did not need to be changed on a previously working game. More times than not, the DOT FAIL is the upper power supply going bad. Why are you so sure that your upper PS is working properly? First thing to do is put back your old XU17, 18, 30, and 31 chips and hopefully that will eliminate the ROM SOUND error and put you back a DOT FAIL. I would then replace your upper power supply first and see if that fixes the DOT FAIL.
Just because all 5 of the lights are lit in the MPU box does not mean there isn't a problem with the upper PS. They are usually more indicative of a lower PS problem which is not the case here.
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The upper power supply is new. I will replace the sound chips with the old ones. The ones that I now have in, are a different version than the ones that I took out. Would that have made a difference?
CORRECTION:
The upper power supply is NOT new in my Jackpot Party. It was the Big Bang Piggy Bankin' also having a problem mentioned in my other thread.
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That very well could have made a difference. If your sound files are not matching the files that your XU2 and XU3 chips are looking for, you will get the ROM SOUND error for sure. So it is possible that the different version messed it up, or it is possible that one of those chips is bad or has a bad burn. No way to tell unless you read the eproms and compare the checksums.
And when you say the upper power supply is "new". What does that mean? Where did it come from and was it tested in another machine before it went into yours?
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The upper power supply is new. I will replace the sound chips with the old ones. The ones that I now have in, are a different version than the ones that I took out. Would that have made a difference?
And upon reading this again, what do you mean different version? There are 3 versions of Jackpot Party... regular, Country Party, and Beach Party. You cannot just change the sound eproms from one to another, they all have to be changed including XU2 and XU3, along with the graphic eproms on the dot display board. You cannot mix and match eproms other than XU10 which should always be v5.14 (last version they came out with).
The rule to follow here is never break up a set of eproms and always run a complete set together. If you have an eprom burner, than you should back up your eproms and save all of the files in its own directory so you know which ones go with which. That way, if an eprom goes bad for some reason, you can always burn another one from that same set. But you can't just plug in an eprom from a different version of the game, even if it is the same game. Williams made many versions of the same titles. Some have different payouts, different jurisdiction settings, etc... The checksums of each chip must be correct for that particular set or the whole thing wont work.
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Thank you for the information. I admit I know very little about these machines.
Okay...so......the power supply is NOT new in this machine. As a matter of fact....it just totally died.
As you mentioned, my chips are all mixed up. Here is a rundown of what is currently in the machine:
Upper unit...
Dot XU4 4BA4 27C040 Checksum 05BD4BA4
Dot XU3 98FE 27C040 Checksum 039498FE
001 Dot XU10 V5.13 27C010 Checksum 00329BA3
CPU board....
075-XU17 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 08F42E00
075-XU18 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 091B3800
075-XU30 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 0B6C1600
075-XU31 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 08A44400
XU2 075--90-1000-5 WMS XU2 V5.01 7942 27C010 Checksum 00017942
XU3 075-G-503 ? Cannot read balance of label 27C010 Checksum 00CCB238
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There is no way for any of us to tell what eproms went together without having a copy of your actual set and being able to compare notes. If you only changed out the 4 sound eproms, then put your original 4 back in and that should take care of your ROM SOUND error and put your back to DOT FAIL. Do that first and update us on if that eliminates the new error. If it does, your software should be back to working condition.
Once you do that, then it is time to tackle the dot fail error and either replace your upper power supply, or do the ATX power supply fix that is outlined in the very first thread in this WMS forum. Either way you go, that should take care of your DOT FAIL and get you back up and running.
If for some reason you cannot get your eproms back in order, then you may need an entire new set of eproms. This would also require you to do a reset and you would need to become familiar with that procedure and have a reset eprom for the denomination your machine is set up for ($.25?). But hopefully you have your eproms in order enough that you can just swap back in the original 4 that you took out.
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Original eproms are back in place. Upper power supply has now gone out. I put the new power supply from my Big Bang Piggy Bankin' slot in it's place. Now, the Jackpot Party is once again coming up Dot Fail.
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Ok, so to make sure I understand, you put all of the original eproms back in place and the ROM SOUND error is gone (thats good).
I am confused on the upper power supply from your BBPB. According to your other thread, you were having an occasional dot fail error on BBPB as well. Is this upper PS new since that problem? And if so, does it work without any problems in your BBPB?
If the upper PS works in your BBPB without any problems and is not working in JPP, then the next step is to swap the display board and/or the DMD display with a known working one (from your BBPB) and see if we can get JPP to work with those. We do those one at a time and we should be able to narrow down where the problem is and how to address it.
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It's the same power supply that was in my Big Bang Piggy Bankin' machine. It is new though, so why wouldn't it be good?
It is putting out over 13V DC.
The power supply info is as follows:
Switching Power Supply Model LIHUA-180 AC 110/220V +/- 15%
12V 15A
Still have DOT FAIL
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I don't mean to state the obvious, but just because something is "new", it does not mean that it works. If that power supply was actually working in your BBPB machine and then you put it in your JPP machine and you still get the DOT FAIL, then I would think it might be something else. But correct me if I am wrong.. You have another thread stating that you are getting a DOT FAIL in your BBPB machine as well, which is where this "new" power supply is coming from, right? What is the common denominator here? It would be that power supply more than likely. And it should only be putting out 12v for the DMD displays. If that supply is putting out over 13v, you may have some other issues at this point.
Do you have a cheap ATX power supply sitting around? If so, try wiring up a 12v supply from the ATX supply directly to the DMD display on either machine and see if that gets rid of your DOT FAIL. At this point, you are getting the same error on both machines and the one part that is in common with both machines and their errors is that power supply that you keep swapping back and forth. More than likely, that is the culprit. You need to hook up a different power supply and see if you have the same problem. You are definitely going to need at least 1 good upper power supply anyway, so maybe get one from one of the guys here on NLG that has parts for these machines (Fusco) and see if you can buy a known working, original, tested upper PS. Once you get that, you can use that power supply to test on both machines and see if you still get the DOT FAIL. My guess is at least one, if not both will go away. It is not a waste of money because you will need that power supply anyway since you have one dead. But you need to get your hands on a known good one that works in these machines from a trusted source so we can see for sure what the deal is. If you get DOT FAIL errors when you are using a known working PS, then we can move on to either the Display board or the DMD itself. But again, I am pretty sure based on what you are posting that it is that PS that is your problem.
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I have someone locally that has repaired both, an original upper and a lower power supply of mine for me. I should be getting them back next week Tuesday. Then, I can see what happens.
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My suggestion was to get a power supply that is tested in another WMS 40X machine so we know for sure going in that it works with these machines. Then we have a proven PS and we can eliminate it as the culprit. Not doubting your local someone's abilities, but if he does not have a 40x machine to test it on (does he?) making it a known working unit prior to being hooked up to either of your machines that are showing DOT FAIL, how can we eliminate the repaired PS as the problem? In a perfect world, the repaired PS comes back and the DOT FAIL goes away making this a moot point. But if it does not go away, and it is not a known working (in a WMS 40x) unit, then we are still with the same "unknown" that we are dealing with now.
The cheap shortcut is to use an ATX computer power supply, even if temporarily, just to see if a clean 12v power supply will eliminate the DOT FAIL. But lets try the repaired one next week and see if that fixes it. If so, then all good and no need to worry about the rest of this. I am only saying that if it doesn't, then we still cant be sure it isn't the power supply because it was not pulled from a current working machine eliminating that possibility.
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Any updates on your issue?
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No change. Still waiting for the guy to drop off my 2 power supplies. Lots of reasons for not getting them to me. Grandson was in hospital, now has many service calls. Hopefully, I will get them this Wednesday. I really don't expect the issue to be gone though.
I do have a question.....What difference does an I/O board from a different jurisdiction make. There is a possibility that over the months swapping things between the two machines that I might have mixed I/O boards. I know one has the jumper on the 1st set of pins the other on the 2nd set.
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The I/O boards are all the same, however, you can have different jurisdiction settings on the board which can be changed. The smart modification which has been done a lot is to replace the jurisdiction jumpers with dip switches so you can easily change jurisdictions if you need to. Otherwise, you have to solder jumpers from one post to another to set the jurisdictions. The jurisdictions only matter to the software you are running. They made multiple versions of each game with different jurisdictions and different payout percentages. I always try to get standard jurisdiction software so that I never have to change the jumper settings of my I/O boards when I swap games. But I have various versions of each. I tend to run all standard though, even if that means I have a lower payout percentage. In home use, your don't notice the payout difference much, but changing the jurisdiction can be a pain on I/O boards that do not have dip switches installed.
Basically, if you look at the jumper setting, standard is having all of them open with nothing connecting. New Jersey has a jumper at position 8. Nevada has a jumper at positions 8 and 6. Missouri is a jumper at 7, France is at 8 and 7, and Delaware is at 6. If you try to run software with the wrong jurisdiction setting, then you will get a JUR BAD error. Normally that error will appear before you see a DOT FAIL, so if you are not getting it, your jumper settings are probably correct for the software you have in the machine.
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Actually these lower percentage chips are very noticeable in the Bonus Rounds. Try running a 90% Jackpot Stampede Deluxe and you will almost never hit a CASH COW higher then 5, when a 97 or 96 gives you plenty of 100 hits. . A Big Bang Piggy Bankin 90% chip also gives out terrible bonus rounds compared to the 97%. That's where the % is built in these because there are no virtual spots on the reels. You have 22X22X22 not 526X526X526...…..You can't add a few blanks or bars and alter the % in the WMS 400 reel portion.
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Actually these lower percentage chips are very noticeable in the Bonus Rounds. Try running a 90% Jackpot Stampede Deluxe and you will almost never hit a CASH COW higher then 5, when a 97 or 96 gives you plenty of 100 hits. . A Big Bang Piggy Bankin 90% chip also gives out terrible bonus rounds compared to the 97%. That's where the % is built in these because there are no virtual spots on the reels. You have 22X22X22 not 526X526X526...…..You can't add a few blanks or bars and alter the % in the WMS 400 reel portion.
Thanks Dale, I never thought of it that way and I see what you mean. I will have to try a couple of different percentage versions of the same game so I can see that. I have noticed that on the version of Winning Streak that I am running, I pretty much NEVER get a winning streak of over 500 coins and have never seen the triple 7's on it at all. And the default for getting a high score up is 9999 coins, so I know it must be possible. I have to assume it is the percentage I am running (not even sure what it is right now). But what you are saying makes perfect sense due to the wheel stops these games have. I may have to consider actually running some higher percentage games and just use them on an I/O with dip switches to make the jurisdiction settings easy to change. I know at least 3 or 4 of my machines have dip switches installed.
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I have an IO board jumped for NJ, LV and a Standard. Just slip in the right IO board with the jurisdiction for what ever game you are running....
Dale
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I have an IO board jumped for NJ, LV and a Standard. Just slip in the right IO board with the jurisdiction for what ever game you are running....
Dale
That works when you are running one 40x machine. Unfortunately, I currently have 6 of them up and running and looks like I will be getting a 7th one here shortly... lol
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Hi,
I finally got my upper and lower power supplies back from the person that was to repair them. The lower power supply seems to be okay. (I put it into my Big Bang Piggy Bankin' machine and ithe machine works the same as with the board that was in that machine). The upper power supply is in question. I put it in the Jackpot Party machine and I am getting the proper AC to the power supply. The power supply is putting out 12.42 VDC to the Dot Matrix display but it is not lighting up. The other output from the power supply to the Dot controller board is putting out only 5.13 VDC. Is that correct?
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Both the DMD and the dot controller board should be getting 12v. There is no 5v in the upper DMD can. In the stock setup, the lower power box puts out 120v and that is what is run up to the box up top and connects to the Upper Power Supply. The upper power supply actually converts that to 12v and then the large molex plug comes out of the upper power and splits to both the dot controller and the dmd. That is 12v to both of those.
If you are more of a visual person, take a look at the ATX bypass mod located here: [size=78%]http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0)[/size]
If you follow it and look at the pictures, there is only 12v that is run up top and the 12v source splits with one plug going to the DMD directly, and the other going to the Dot controller card. Where are you getting the 5v from that you are measuring? The stock upper power supply in these slots only puts out 12v. Did you somehow mix up a lower with an upper?
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I believe that the power supply in my upper unit is the right one, but then.....what do I know? NOT MUCH! The picture below shows where, and what voltage I am getting. Not getting the 12 VDC to the Dot controller board, I guess would explain why the Dot Matrix board is not lighting up.
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That looks like the correct power supply, but yeah, you should be getting 12v to both of those plugs.
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Would it be okay to splice into the 12.43 VDC and connect it to the Dot controller board connection? Or, would that be another problem?
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That shouldn't be a problem at all. Again, look at these pictures from the ATX power mod. The green wire is 12v (from an ATX power supply down below) and they split that to power both the DMD and the Dot controller. I have done this exact mod myself on some of my machines, so yes. You can split the 12v and power both and it should work. I have to wonder though, why you are only getting 5v from part of your upper power supply which was just rebuilt? It makes me wonder how long you will have a good 12v from it as well.
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Okay....here is the latest. I split the 12VDC from the upper power supply to the Dot controller board and the Dot Matrix screen. The controller board lights (both red & Green) light up. Still have Dot Fail.
Now....I took the Dot controller board, the Dot Matrix screen, the reels, the I/O & CPU boards out of the Jackpot Party machine and put all of that into my Piggy Bankin' machine. It initially comes up with Dot Fail and Calling Attendant on the Dot Matrix screen. After about 20 minutes or so, I turned the machine off and back on again.......and then.......the Jackpot Party game works like it should. So, all of the parts that I transferred from machine to machine apparently work. What in the heck is causing the initial Dot Fail on the Piggy Bankin' machine and a permanent Dot Fail when those parts are in the original Jackpot Party machine?
On the Jackpot Party, the lower power supply is new, the board below the lower supply that I exchanged for a working board from one of the people in the know on newlifegames and the repaired upper power supply should be okay, so.....now what can I do????
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I am going to direct Fusco to look at this thread as well as he may have some other suggestions. But from my experience, the DOT FAIL does not occur from anything to do with the lower power supply. If the lower supply fails, you will not even get to the point where it will give you a DOT FAIL because you will have other errors before it does the display check. So not worried about those in either machine. The DOT FAIL usually comes from one of 3 sources with the main one being a bad upper power supply. The other 2 being a bad dot controller (you have ruled that out) and the third being a bad DMD (you have also ruled that out).
I will say this, when the upper power supply BEGINS to go out, you can get a temporary DOT FAIL on a machine and after the upper power supply warms up some or is on for a while, a reset will make the dot fail go away. I have that exact same thing going on right now with my Winning Streak machine and that is what you have going on with your BBPB. I just have been too lazy to take care of it and am waiting for the upper PS to completely fail before I attack the problem.
Based on what you have done by eliminating the dot controller and the DMD as the culprits, then I think everything points at the upper power supplies in both machines. Your BBPB machine has a failing unit and your JPP machine appears to be no bueno. I know you are getting 12v from part of it, but there must be something going on there since you were only getting 5v from it as well. The power may be fluctuating and not consistent which once it causes the DOT FAIL, it will not recover even if it pops back up to 12v. The only way to get past the DOT FAIL is to do a reboot and if it is not giving a constant 12v and the machine detects that, you will get a DOT FAIL every time.
I again would suggest getting a known working (tested) upper power supply for each machine (I think Fusco has some), or do the ATX power modification that I linked to earlier. I have done the ATX mod on some of my machines (for both lower and upper) and those machines run perfect with no issues. But I run stock working power supplies until they die also. Unfortunately, the stock power supplies (both upper and lower) are the weak link in these machines and they tend to go bad due to the heat they build up and the lack of any airflow where they are housed.
You can actually take an ATX power supply and place it in the top behind the DMD (lots of space) and just run the wall plug down and plug into one of the plugs on the lower power supply. Then just take a 12v connector from the ATX and use it to supply a 12v source to both your dot controller and your DMD. Bypass your upper PS completely. This way you can see for cheap ($20 or so) if that resolves your problem. If it does (and it most likely will), then you know your upper PS is bad. You don't need to use the ATX to replace your lower PS if that is working fine. But just know that the ATX box (if you get a 300w or higher) can replace both your lower and upper PS if you need it to and you can do it all with one power supply. Its really not that hard to do and is well documented. Just an option... Some like to always try and run stock power supplies and that is fine too. Just understand the eventual issues with them.
If you decide to do this, here is the ATX box I have bought and used with success and this has enough juice to run both the upper and lower if needed. Just letting you know so you can get something that is known to work... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007I55JVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007I55JVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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I just discovered an original good working spare upper power that I purchased from Bill Briney some time ago, that I forgot that I had. I checked it, and it puts out 13 VDC to the dot controller and also 13 VDC to the dot matrix screen. Still comes up DOT FAIL!
Well, I guess that is another thing to rule out as bad. What is left?
I also need another upper power supply and the harness from the upper power supply to the dot controller and dot matrix screen, and could also use a speaker for my Williams High Speed slot, if anyone has spares.
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Are you absolutely sure that the lower power is good? Dot fail is an indication of lower. Power supply failure.
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Dale has a lot more experience here than I do, so I could very well be wrong with stating earlier that it wasn't the lower. I have never had a DOT FAIL due to a lower PS so I was speaking from my experience.
Dale, the lower supplies the upper with 120v which then is converted to 12v by the upper, right? So if the lower isn't giving the proper voltage initially you could get a DOT FAIL? That is the only scenario I could see involving the lower unless I am missing something? I want to figure this out too so I can learn from it... lol
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For what it's worth, when I bought my WMS 40x machine, it had a "DOT FAIL" error, and the dot matrix display (DMD) never showed anything. I replaced the upper power supply with a computer ATX power supply, and it fixed my issue.
Even if the DMD isn't talking to the rest of the machine, if it has power it should show a boot-up sequence with the Williams logo when power is applied. Is your DMD showing anything when the machine is powered on and you get the "DOT FAIL" message? If not, your upper power supply is not properly powering the DMD and its control board.
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Both of my Williams 400 machines do come up with the Williams logo when powered up. Then I get the Dot Fail.........on both of them.
But..................the Piggy Bankin' machine will operate normally after it is left on for anywhere from 10-20 minutes. That is, after it is shut off and restarted. The Jackpot Party will show Dot Fail until the cows come home, ha!
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I seriously think you need to consider trying the ATX power mod. It will cost you under $30 per machine and will take you about an hour total.
If you had a working machine, then it would be a lot easier to troubleshoot your issue on the 2nd machine because you would swap 1 part at a time to see what effect that part has on the other machine. In your case, you have 2 machines with almost the same issue. So it is tough to say exactly what is going on with each machine because you do not have a base machine to test things on.
I will say this, your DMD and your Dot Controller appear to be working because you swapped them into your BBPB machine and got it to work. So the issue, and this is on BOTH of your machines, is power based. You have either a bad upper or lower power supply on each machine, maybe 2. You keep stating that you have a known working supply or two, but what are you basing that "known working" opinion on? You do not have a fully working machine in play to say that these are working. This is why I am suggesting at this point to bypass both of the power supplies in one of your machines and supply power to the entire machine with and ATX box and see if that fixes your issues. I will put money on the fact that it will. Once you do that, you can then always get good power supplies and put them back in if that is the direction you want to go Or you can leave it and have good power from a single source. But at least this way, we can say 100% that your machine is working when it gets good power. This mod is easily reversible.
Your other option is to get a tested power supply (or supplies) from a trusted member that is known to work for sure and go that route. At this point, we cannot be sure that your power supplies are in working order without having them in a machine and knowing that machine is working without any issues.
Lets slow down just a touch and get 1 machine fully working and stop swapping parts from one to the other at this point. Once you have 1 machine fully operational, it will be easy to diagnose the 2nd machine. But based on everything you have done and posted, it must be a power issue in each machine.
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Okay,.....I finally got two new IP-S350T1-0 ATX12 power supplies for my Jackpot Party and Big Bang Piggy Bankin' machines as suggested. I also tested both lower power supplies in my Williams High Speed machine. The High Speed machine worked with those power supplies. After installing both new upper power supplies as instructed, I still have the same problems on both machines. The BBPB machine comes up Dot Fail, and after about 15 or 20 minutes I shut it off and turn it on again...and it works. The Jackpot Party comes up Dot Fail, and never comes to life.
So, it appears that the power supplies are not the problems.
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So you have had a working High Speed machine available the entire time and just now are mentioning it? :banghead:
We could have eliminated the lower power supplies as the culprit earlier with that bit of knowledge by doing what you just did, testing them there. Okay, so lower power supplies are eliminated as problems.
As for the ATX power supplies, how did you end up hooking them up? Did you do a full upper and lower replacement, or did you just do an upper? If your lowers are good, then just the upper is what could have been done. Assuming you did the upper only, just verifying that you took power from the 12v hookup from the ATX (molex 4 hole straight plug) and ran it up, splitting the power to both the DMD unit and the Dot Control card, bypassing the upper PS altogether? Can you post some pictures of your connections to both the ATX and the upper area? Based on everything you have previously posted, this should have fixed your issues if done properly.
We will get this figured out... but pictures may help at this point.
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Here are the pictures that you requested.
Oh, by the way.....after I verified that the lower power supplies worked in the High Speed machine.....the dummy.... me, by accident put one of the original upper power supplies in the lower High Speed machine, and now I have 3 screwed up Williams machines. The High Speed now constantly spews out coins, the lighting on the reels is super bright and I now have no digital display. I know...I'm stupid and I'm as old as dirt.......so, maybe I'm entitled, ha!
I am laughing on the outside, but crying on the inside with all the trouble I have with these Williams machines.
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You need to check your IO boards ....
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I put the I/O board from the High Speed (that is spewing coins) into the BBPB and it does the same thing there. Then I put the I/O board from the BBPB into the High Speed and it doesn't spew out coins, but there is no bong, no digital display.
and the buttons don't light up. The bill acceptor cycles.
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With all that has been said, My Jackpot Party and Big Bang Piggy Bankin' machines are still showing DOT FAIL. New power supplies, board below lower power supply replaced, I/O board, working Dot Matrix board and screen......still both are showing Dot Fail.