New Life Games LLC
**Video Poker, Keno, Slots, 21** Gaming machines => IGT AVP (Including G20,G23) => Topic started by: rickhunter on August 11, 2017, 12:22:22 AM
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I did a similar thread a long time ago when I got my first alpha. So here are some notes and observations on this "new to me" platform that might help others in the future.
As I never got around to play with this platform until AVP 3.0, all observations and comments are for AVP 3.0 only.
So far, the Bios/OS requirements for games is kind of sketchy for me. Other than asking people in the know, I have not been able to find a document that will detail what Bios/OS is required for which game.
The best way to refer to a game is by it's 4 character alphanumeric code. It is the only way to know for sure the dongle that goes with the game, as some dongles don't say what game they are for, other than the reference to this 4 character long code.
The error messages during boot time (green screen of death/red screen of death) are as cryptic as they are for WMS or Alpha games. Although being a linux guy, I can recognize some errors. But in general I have not found them to be intuitive.
I was under the impression that you could just install all the games you had and enable/disable them as needed. I installed every game I have purchased, but the machine failed to boot due to numerous cryptic Green/Red screens of death. So I systematically deleted the game packages as the errors came up, the next point details how.
You NEED an ekey7 or the ekey set AND the diagnostic thumb drive. You can remove packages that keep your machine from booting up using the diagnostic program. You can also look at all kinds of neat things that are in your cabinet. A good way to troubleshoot if your peripherals are connected properly.
My particular machine came with an AVP 3.0 version 620 box, the diagnostics say this box has a 2Ghz CPU. I have seen version a version 621 dubbed AVP 3.0M (not sure if the "M" means anything) and looks identical to the 620 box, with the power supply on the top cover. Specs posted on various places say this variant has an AMD Turion 2.1Ghz CPU. Then there's a 625 AVP 3.0 (notice no M) box that has an internal power supply, although it looks like the power cable going into it, is the same as the one that connects to the back of the power supply on the top cover on the 620/621 box, you will probably need a longer harness to connect the 625 box though. I am told ALL AVP 3.0 boxes are upgradable to 4GB of ram. Mine came with a single stick of 1GB of Ram. The specs on the RAM is DDR2 PC2-5300 desktop ram CL5 unbuffered dual sided Dimms (chips on both sides). I bought and installed a second 1GB stick and now my box is running on 2GB of Ram. I have tried a couple brands of 2GB dims to try and get the system to 4GB, but no luck. I have been told that there's a specific brand and type of ram that works. I have ordered a couple set to try, and if they work, I will update this post. Then there is a 660 box, from what I gather, it is a 625 box with a discrete video card installed, an ATI Radeon e4690. So if you have a 625 box, and then buy and install the e4690 card, you have a 660.
The Bios chips are a matched pair. One is a plcc chip that goes into a socket on the brain box' motherboard. The other one is a PLCC chip on a dip adapter that plugs into that proprietary IGT card with the two batteries plugged into a pci slot on the brain box. Both bios must match and I'm told the one to get is the 14B bios. The OS must also match the OS closely. I'm told version 14 A09 is the one to get with the 14b "boot chips" (same as bios). Then there's the special boot chips which I have no clue what they are for, maybe they are required to run some licensed games (i.e. the games that are not supposed to exists outside a casino, you know which ones I mean).
My box came with a bios and OS that is not quite the latest and I'm having some issues running some games, although I am not entirely clear if it is because I don't have 4GB of Ram installed yet.
Back to game limitations. There is a limit on how many dongle/games can be used at once. The explanation I got was that it has something to do with USB limitations. I tried to install a total of 17 games using a combination of 10 dongles. 2 sets of multi games license dongles with 9 total games, plus 8 additional games using single game dongle licenses. The game comes up, but as you play, the OLED button panel (which is USB based) goes from displaying the normal bet information to "USB Disconnected" and back to normal operation during gameplay. So as you hit spin, the game would start the spin on the screen, you would get the USB disconnected error on the oled, during which the game continued to play but would not go back to a ready state until the USB reconnected. So I decided to remove a license dongle and disable the game whose dongle I pulled. The USB disconnected error improved, but was still present. I removed a second dongle. The game plays fine 90% of time and then you get the occasional USB Disconnected Error. So I'm thinking if I remove one more, the error would go away. That would leave me with 2 sets of multigame dongles for 9 games plus 6 additional single game dongles for a total of 15 games enabled at once. I did not get to try my theory as I gave up for the night. I will remove the additional dongle an update the post if the problem goes away. I do not know if the limitation is a "per dongle" or a "per game" issue. Would I be able to install say 7 multigame license dongle and have no issues, or do the multi-game dongles require more usb bandwidth than the single game dongle. I am not sure on this.
I installed a printer and had no way of printing a test voucher originated from the cabinet, so I couldn't test connectivity. I installed a Bettor Tito board by following Jim's very clear video on youtube on what options need to be changed and the ticket printer worked as it should I didn't have to enable the printer in any way I remember, other than setting the SAS setting and enabling the voucher out setting.
The main door appears to have optics on it, although on my cabinet, they are disconnected. I believe someone did the bypass and the main door functions through standard switches.
The ribbon cable that connects the MPU to the backplane looks delicate. Be very careful when plugging and unplugging.
Setting the correct date and time is VERY important, as I am told. I have not tried to see what happens if you don't, but I don't think I want to find out. (I usually don't bother setting the right time and date when setting up WMS or Bally machines),
That is all for now. I will expand on this post as I discover more things.
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very nice post
The game limitation is based on the USB hub. So if you had 7 4 muligame dongles the 28 games would play just fine.
The number of usb dongles supported varies from cabinet to cabinet. The newer G23 has lights and toppers running off the usb hub which limits the number of dongles you have.
I have two SAVP cabinets which are older and use a 20" MLD main monitor and a 22" top monitor. I have found to make the premium games run smoothly you need 3 things.
#1 - 4 Gb of RAM
#2 - the e4690 video card
#3 - SATA III SSD hard drive
if anyone of the three are missing from above (at least in my SMLD) some games will not run smoothly - Like Dolly, Back to the Future and CSI. they are the worst offenders.
VERY IMPORTANT - drove me crazy
#1 if you max out the dongles - your eKey won't work either. You will have to remove a dongle to make it work again.
#2 never turn off an entire usb hub at one time. If you do you will red screen. Remove the dongles one at a time.
I feel the SAVP cabinet is the worst design I have ever seen. From the design of the button snake all the way to having to remove the door to take out a power supply.
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Which brainbox do you have?
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I don't know
I don't have a diag 14 working and don't know how to tell.
I'm guessing the oldest one
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send a pic of the front with logic door open and I can tell you.
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Old tech
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3.0M with built in video with the lower grade card installed. The newest video card has two dvi only ports in it and no vga. Those pop to life using a 625 or 660 and yes a 625 has built in viedo also where as a 660 doesn't and must use the new high resolution card. If you got it with machine you should install the "boom a rang" latch on the logic door-it locks the door and closes the logic door switch. Makes life easier then to keep jamming something in and out of there. I know a bit about all these as I have worked on over 100 or so in the last 6 months and seen every kind of crazy error/screens you can get. B.
***********I see your adapter now on right side converting dvi to vga********so you do have the new card installed---almost missed it!.
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I'm interested in this boomerang switch - I want
To run a hub and switch outside the machine to
Enable/Disable BTTF and my other tall games
Without opening the belly.
The card in the machines only has dvi
If you look closely you will see the dvi to vga adapter which is a pain
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You have what I've been describing as a 621 box the AVP 3.0 M. I'm guessing that is probably where I need to go, or get the 625.
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I revised my post that I seen that as you were typing probably. I referred to the boom a rang Latch (factory stuff). But if you look inside brain box it's only 2-wires running from that switch to the pci card--open or closed so that's easy. I am not talking about the write/enable toggle---talking about the switch with the little roller on it you are jamming stuff in and out of--(most people do it). I can post a pic of the latch if you want and you folks can see if you have any. Depending on what twist lock depth you use you will have to play with depth/shimming to make them work correctly. When correct with machine off you gan gently acuate the twist lock and hear a light "click"--that's the switch closing.
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Just so you know with 4 gig ram and sata III all my games run
Smooth as a babies ass except CSI
Over 50 titles
The video card made csi work properly
I was shocked the impact That sata III
Had
Fixed over a dozen game stutters
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You have what I've been describing as a 621 box the AVP 3.0 M. I'm guessing that is probably where I need to go, or get the 62
Bite the bullet and get a 660 with the good video card--get one with a SSD also. You will have to have the wiring harness and it will then just power off the backplane as 625/660 have built in pwr. supplies. Either way 625/660 you have to have the harness
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#2 never turn off an entire usb hub at one time. If you do you will red screen. Remove the dongles one at a time.
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This is not true. Must not have the correct type of usb hub. I had is set up with toggle switches to switch between the usb hubs and change my games. That way I could flip the switch from the outside without opening my door and change my games.
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Also munchie,
If you are interested in the switch set up let me know. If you are mechanically inclined it is simple. As far as switching between BTTF and the other V32 games now you got me thinking. Although I am not sure that will work. Don't think it will allow other games to be enabled while BTTF is. Even if the dongle is "off"
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What I'd like to do is this - run a hub outside the cabinet and a toggle switch. When I want to switch between BTTF and the other games, i would throw the toggle insert the eKey and disable BTTF and enable the other games. Then throw the toggle back to resume gameplay.
** What I don't know is - will the eKey work with only the rollie ball toggle thrown - or does it take more like the main door toggle, the logic door toggle, and the rollie ball toggle. OR maybe the eKey will work with all the toggles in the closed position :Scratch-Head: IDK
Currently the tall games I have are
BTTF
CSI
Pinball
Top Dollar
I'm missing one though - i can't think of the name
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More stuff I learned over the weekend.
Installing games. You will need ekey 7 or ekey3. I have found that for sure before boot 14a/b, you can only install games outside the main system. That is, power off machine insert the proper ekey and installation media in the secured USB ports (The ones behind the little door on the brainbox). With the newer OS, you can remove/and install packages and games from within the ekey menu after the machine is booted and running. This is obviously much better than the previous method.
If you need to remove games because you installed some that caused your machine to give you green/red screens of death, you need the diagnostic key. Removing games will wipe your configuration though, so you must go through the setup when the machine boots afterwards. Calibrate touchscreens, setting com/sas settings, enable games, accounting denom, etc. If you have the newer boot chips, always install the games from e-key menu and you can avoid this situation of the red/green screens of death. Removing games from within the ekey menu will not wipe configuration, so this would be the preferred method.
DO NOT POWER your tito board off the usb hub in the cabinet, it will cause usb issues after 6 dongles. I found that out this weekend when I would get USB disconnects on my OLED player panel. Once I moved the TITO board to the service outlet (ac 120v), then the game no longer had USB issues. I even installed an additional 2 license dongles and have no issues so far.
There's a limit on how many games you can install in your drive, not because of hard drive space, but because the NVRAM in the system is kind of small. Each time you install a game, it takes up configuration space on the NVRAM, and eventually you will run out of space, even if the game is not enabled. There is no point on getting a hard drive/ssd bigger than 120gb, I would even say 80 GB, but I don't think you can buy a drive that small anymore.
I will be getting my second brainbox sometime this week with a 14b bios and 14a09 OS. Hopefully this will resolve the issues with some games I have that just won't work on my current box. I will also get the "known working brand" of 4GB worth of Dimms to try and upgrade my 2GB box. I have conflicting information as to whether or not a 620 box will go to 4gb or it is limited to 2gb. I will try with and without the new bios and see what happens and report back.
The more games installed (even if not enabled) in your brainbox, the slower the system boots. If you have an SSD the difference is not all that bad, but if you have a hard drive it may be. Also more memory equals longer boot times, as the system has to test the memory.
[Edited due to new information provided]
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If you swap out brain boxes you have to set the machine back up again, and enable all the games too. So not a pleasant experience if you have a lot of games loaded up on the hard drive.
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After a couple weeks of ownership, here are more findings:
Boot 14b and OS 14a09 make all the difference in the world. Everything I own now works. Also installing those bios chips allows the 620 box to work with 4GB's of Ram. So all brainboxes I now own 620, 621, and 625 all work fine with 4GB of Ram.
620 box has a 2Ghz processor, power supply on top of box.
621 box has a 2.1Ghz processor, power supply on top of box.
625 box has a 2.1Ghz processor, power supply inside the box.
660 box has a 2.1Ghz processor, power supply inside the box, also has ATI e4690 video card installed.
I've purchased an ATI e4690 card for my 620 box and I can report it works flawlessly. So my 620 box now has 4gb of ram and the video card and all games are running buttery smooth.
Boot 14b/OS 14a09 allow for the installation of games through the ekey menu, under manage packages. Previously, I could only remove packages in this option, but with the current OS, I can install games as well.
I would like to use my 625 box, but the issue is the harnesses to connect it. For some stupid decision, IGT decided to use AMP connectors for the power plugs, which of course do not mate with Molex, which they used everywhere else in the cabinet. So I'm gathering up a parts list to make cables necessary for this machine, in the event one of them get fubared. I don't really want to hack it up and just extend the current cable. I want it to be as clean as possible. Also the flat 5 pin header on the 625 which will require another "weird" harness is ncessary on my g20 cabinet, as it powers the USB hubs. If I don't connect it, the dongles nor any of the usb peripherals work.
From time to time my printer goes off-line and disappears from the usb device list, I have to reboot the machine to fix it. I've tried two printers, and they both do the same thing. I suspect a harness issue, because it doesn't happen all the time. That is really the only hiccup the whole machine has at the moment.
I cannot find anywhere in the ekey menu where to allow the multi denom amounts.. I think I saw it after doing a ram clear as you go through all the screens, but not completely sure now. I definitely cannot find it anywhere in the e-key menu. So I only have 1c denom at the moment. In the enable/disable game, I can only select 1 cent on any game, as the other denominations are not enabled in the machine. So I think I have to allow the denominations first, and then I can assign the game to multiple denoms. I'm thinking I will probably have to wipe out the nvram and the other non-volatile storage in order to enable multi-denom.
When I updated my ssd from 14 whatever I had before, to 14A09, it formatted the drive and wrote the OS on my drive. I thought it would just upgrade it, but it got wiped and new os installed. So I had to re-install all my games.
Those are all my notes up to now. So far I'm really liking AVP. I specifically like that you can just keep adding games as you wish until you run out of nvram. Of course there's the dongle limitation as well, I'm told it's around 12 dongles, but you could certainly install around 100 games on the machine and just swap dongles as needed to change the games around. The MLD screen is awesome, and if you get an AVP without one, you are missing out on of the main reasons why this platform is so engaging.
So what are you waitin' fer? Go dump that 3902/044 gameking and get into Avp 3.0 stuff. Easier to work with, and no more stinking flash boards.
I will say, that in general, the quality of the games in Bally alpha 2/ bb2/bb3 is superior in almost all regards to the AVP games. Games like CSI and Dolly Parton are VERY cool games, and beats most bally/wms games for sure. But nothing will ever compete with Willy Wonka, LOTR, Michael Jackson, Cher, Titanic, and the other "top tier" games in my opinion, but it's getting very close.
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Yep, when you first set up the machine you have to set the denominations you want the machine to have access to when you enable your games. Ekey menu won't get you to that screen after you set up the machine so wipe nvram and start over to get to that screen. It's easy to miss during set up too.
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Yes, Upon initial set up you will see a menu option that says "available denoms to player" check all the ones you want and save. Then when you enable the games choose all that you want and multi-denom will then work as long as software supports it-which most of it does. As jeff stated the initial screen can be easy to miss. You get to it by pushing "more" in middle bottom, If you push "next" to the left you probably missed this option.
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Rick you can get to that denom available to player screen again without starting over. Let me check where it is real quick.
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Listen up Fellas, school is in session.
Go to setup/cash handling/devices/denom available to players
And default denom.
Now if you are trying to change the Coin 1 denom, yes you are screwed. Start over. But really not necessary.
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I will say, that in general, the quality of the games in Bally alpha 2/ bb2/bb3 is superior in almost all regards to the AVP games. Games like CSI and Dolly Parton are VERY cool games, and beats most bally/wms games for sure. But nothing will ever compete with Willy Wonka, LOTR, Michael Jackson, Cher, Titanic, and the other "top tier" games in my opinion, but it's getting very close.
As far as games go, BTTF is pretty cool too. Most of the really good games are IPC though.
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I really love the platform -
I would equate the premium on par with the Alpha 2 premium titles
I much prefer the IGT standard games to Alpha 2 standard titles
Miss Red/Miss White are awesome
also being able to load so many games is priceless
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As per morspeed instructions, sure enough, you can add denoms on the fly. However I ran into an interesting issue. I added the nickel denom (I only have penny enabled before). So I had both nickel and penny. I enabled a couple of games to try the nickel denom. It worked, but when i switched back to penny denom, on a game I tried "Takes the Cake" I got a button panel failure, firmware file too small, fix issue. The only way I could get out was to disable the game, so I could pick another game. I played golden goddess just fine. Then I re-enabled "takes the cake" selected it, and the same problem. I went back and disabled all nickel games and the nickel denom. Still the same issue. I removed and re-installed "Takes the Cake" same issue. So then I just rebooted the system and things were back to normal. I have not tried enabling nickel denom, enabling the games, and rebooting, to see if that fixes the issue. It got too late last night to try it, I'm wondering if anybody else has run accross this problem with the OLED button panel.
Another observation:
Can't load or remove games with TITO enabled from the e-key menu. I get an error regarding authorization from host. If I disable the COM1 SAS, then I can add and remove games.
The eKey is SUPER important, can't do anything without it.
Did I mention the Ekey and how important it is?
Went to a local casino to see what other AVP games are out that would be fun to buy. I saw a golden goddess (same one I have), but it had a promo screen with "Hot New Game" running while in attract mode on the top screen. Is there a setting for that? I've seen the area where you can change from Gameking to Multi-game, but nothing about "Hot New Game" or similar.
Did I mention the Ekey and now important it is? Don't lose it and handle with care.
Has anybody ever loaded a gameking set on their machine along with some of the other avp video slots? I notice the game setup screen has an area to enable multiple tabs.
Have I mentioned how nothing can be done without the ekey? (ok, you get the idea)
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It is weird that you can't load games with the tito enabled because I have no problems with it. There may be a setting somewhere that need to be changed. Try this:
Machine Setup Requirements to allow theme installation and removal using Package Management:
1. Navigate to Setup>Communication>Protocol> G2S>G2S must be Disabled (Protocol Enabled - NO) Package Management option will not be shown on the menus if G2S is Enabled.
2. Navigate to Setup>Communication>Protocol> G2S and set Protocol that controls Legacy Meter Change setting to NOT REQUIRED
I have experienced issues with dynamic button tilts on certain games with that kind of error or similar. What kind of dynamic buttons do you have?
Also, which ekey do you have?
You should be able to mess around with attractions in the same area you were in for the multitheme menu selection. I think it is more games/attract button or something like that.
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I have an ekey 7. The button panel I have has 10 OLED buttons in the middle and a pair of standard buttons to either side (14 total buttons)
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Edge lit or standard?
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standard. I want to upgrade to edge lit, but I was told I needed a newer version of the little square chip on the adapter.
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Those can be upgraded with the cvv program and proper file. what number is on the chip you have now?
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This is what I have.
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Yeah, that is pretty old. That could be part of the problem. I think you should probably be at 006 or better. But then again I am not sure if that will work with the standard dynamics.
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A couple more things to add to my ongoing observations. So I removed the mainboard from a 620 box to compare to a 621 and 625 box. They are exactly the same. The 621 and 625 only differ in the metal cage in that the power supply in the 625 (which is the exact same one found in the 621 and 620) goes inside the lid as opposed to outside the lid. They all have socketed CPU's under the active heatsink. The 620 has a single core 2 Ghz AMD Sempron processor, the 621 and 625 both have an AMD Turion 64 X2 dual core processor running at 2.1Ghz. I moved the processor from a 621 to a 620 box and it operates the same as it does on the 621 box. Of course now, the next question begs to see if you put a faster processor on the MPU, if the games would run any better? I'm about to find out as I'm now actively looking for a higher end Turion 64 cpu, I will update this thread when and if I ever come across something that works.
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Rickhunter-
Did you ever determine an adapter part for the 5 flat to 5 molex? Looking to go from a 3.0m to a 625 on my g22 slant. Need the adapter cable and also the extension cable for the 10 pin molex.....
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Never found the 5 pin plug for the power supply. I did find the main power plug. It is this one from TE connectivity,
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-770580-1 (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-770580-1)
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Rick- from what I can ascertain on my g20 with a 621, the 5 pin flat that goes into the top of the small ps box goes to j25 labeled “usb power”. I’m gathering this best I can without pulling the zip ties apart on the harness and trying to follow the wires thru the harness.
On my g23 with a 660, there is no j25 on the backplane that I can see... obviously all of the USB ports are on the fin board- whole different animal there. I also noticed that the main power harness from j11 goes into the front of the 660 box. That’s the connector you specified, same as what goes into the back of the small ps on the 621. The 5 pin connector next to it on 660 box is not filled.
So the question would be- on a g20 or g22, is this 5 pin connector utilized when upgrading or installing a 625 or 660 box? That 5 pin either feeds 5v power to the backplane or gets 5v from the backplane- just looking at it I would assume that the ps is feeding 5v for the USB ports on the backplane. If this is the case, would the USB ports become essentially dead? That doesn’t make much sense as there is more to those ports than just providing power.
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This thread answered a LOT of my questions about 620 vs 625. Thanks.
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Regarding the little 5 pin plug for power to USB. I experimented with it when trying to connect a 625 on a v1 cabinet. Without the 5 pin power, all usb connected devices were inoperable, so you do need it for the v1 cabinet, you would have to get a harness from the mpu to the backplane to wire in the 5 volts. I believe that powers the USB controller chip on the backplane.
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Good to know. I was wondering what that was for and why one of my machines had it and the other didn't.
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Regarding the little 5 pin plug for power to USB. I experimented with it when trying to connect a 625 on a v1 cabinet. Without the 5 pin power, all usb connected devices were inoperable, so you do need it for the v1 cabinet, you would have to get a harness from the mpu to the backplane to wire in the 5 volts. I believe that powers the USB controller chip on the backplane.
If you only have 2 usb devices you can just run them directly to the brain box. If you have more you. An use a cheap usb hub. Much easier to source than that cable is.