New Life Games LLC
Coin Comparitors and Other Coin acceptors => Coin Comparitors and Other Coin acceptors => Topic started by: Paladin on July 31, 2018, 12:18:21 PM
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Just finishing up on my slot repairs and noticed that the rake didn't appear to be working on a coin comparitor, as all coins went to the hopper even with the game powered off. This game had been used with quarter sized copper tokens when I got it. I pulled the comparitor and found what I believe is a CC-33, not the CC-16 I've seen in other SPlus games. First thing I noticed, apart from a missing plastic cover over the electronics, was the coil for the rake is mounted on the opposite side of the comparitor from a CC-16 so it faces the interior of the cabinet.
Playing around with it to see how it's designed to work leads me to think that if I fix it to work as designed, it won't work in the slot at all.
When looking at the mech with the door open, and the game turned off, coins exit the left side of the mech into the hopper.
When the game is turned on, all coins exit the left side of the mech to the hopper, even after the credit max of 3 coins has been reached.
When holding the rake by hand in what would be the 'energized' position, the coins exit the right side of the mech to the payout tray.
Looking at the electronics, it appears that someone has removed a resistor labeled as R36, to the left of the 220uf capacitor. It seems to me that if it was possible to determine the value of that resistor and replace it (and the capacitor) the rake would still not work right because when there is no power to the game it would still accept coins into the hopper.
At this point I think I'll just leave it as is, since I don't care if all coins go into the hopper. I though it was interesting enough to post about though, in case someone else has a similar issue or knows about this particular style of mech and why it seems to be reversed in terms of where the coins exit.
(edit to fix very tiny text in 3rd paragraph that was unreadable)
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Mech in question:
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Mech in question:
just to clarify so it doesn't confuse or misinform anyone following this discussion:
Your post says "mech in question" but that's not a coin mech in your photo above, that's a coin comparitor. I know a lot of times that term "mech" is loosely used for all coin acceptors. But a "mech" or "coin mech" is a mechanical coin acceptor, no electronics. A coin mech is pictured below in the first photo, a coin comparitor is shown in the second photo. A coin comparitor has electronics to compare the inserted coin to either a "sample" coin or to an electronic signature of a sample coin that is stored in the cc memory. Part of the goal here at NLG is to educate anyone seeking information, so we need to be careful about leading anyone astray. Not a biggie but wanted to make sure we got that posted in case someone less familiar got mis-educated.
Your coin comparitor may have had someone rig or mod it in the past so that it will pass any coin that passes thru it. They didn't have the correct CC-16 model so they used this one and adapted it. And people sometimes do this to eliminate problems with coins getting rejected. The coin goes thru the coin comparitor, then drops past the coin optic boards and the mpu board puts a playing credit on the machine. So the cc in your machine may have been simply acting as a way for the inserted coin to get to the coin optic boards. On a home machine this may not be a big deal, as long as people don't insert various size coins that end up in the coin hopper and cause a jam.
Also, different models of coin comparitors use different voltages to operate. The voltage that the S+ sends to the cc may not be what your CC-33 is made for, so someone may have disconnected things on it to keep from having a problem that might damage the S+ power supply. The cc operating voltage is sometimes written on its label, or is denoted by the color of the wires going to the rake. Note: some use AC and others use DC.
The correct coin comparitor model for your machine is easily obtained and they are low cost. I think the model is a CC-16D. The color of the wires connected to the rake is a good way to know if it is the right one for an S+. I'd recommend you simply get the correct cc for your machine from a trusted person here on NLG. They will make sure you get the right one and that it works fine. Or you can install an Imonex coin mech for a low cost. Having the proper coin comparitor in the machine will save you or the future owner from problems and headaches later on.
.....At this point I think I'll just leave it as is, since I don't care if all coins go into the hopper. I though it was interesting enough to post about though, in case someone else has a similar issue or knows about this particular style of mech and why it seems to be reversed in terms of where the coins exit.
I'd be careful about not worrying about any & all coins getting to the hopper. Having different size coins get to the coin hopper is an excellent way to get a coin jam or bend the hopper knife. The 25 cent coin entry head will keep out larger coins but nickels, dimes, pennies, etc will pass and go into the coin hopper if someone wants to insert them, such as children & cranky senior-citizens. :garfield:
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Thanks for the clarification! I'm more used to pinball and arcade games that use the mechanical type, so I tend to use that term for any coin acceptor. You make a good point that I should use the correct term, I'll try to remember that!
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From reading your post I was pretty sure you knew the difference, was just wanting to make sure we don't misinform someone not as familiar that is just getting into the hobby.
If you want to go ahead and post a WantToBuy request for either a CC-16D or a coin mech for an S+ machine in the Classified Ads area. Or you can track one down on your own if you prefer.
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The comparitor you had pictured looks to be from a large coin machine, 50c or $1.00. Look at K-Lars web sight, they have comparitors for sale under coin handling. If you do buy one, your probably going to need to buy a different power cord for the comparitor. Your has a 3 pin plug but the CC-16 has a 5 or 6 pin plug. I think that it’s possible to use the 3 pin plug on the CC-16, you just use the bottom 3 pin on the comparitor plug. At least that’s what I remember being told and read.
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Thanks! I actually just got done making my own harness. I had the right 6 pin connector and pins from working on a Sega Naomi arcade light gun game a couple years ago. It's times like these that I'm glad I tend to order a few extra parts when I work on a project. Makes me seem like someone who plans ahead instead of a parts hoarder!
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I think this is the KLAR coin handling webpage Amechanic referred to,
but I'm having trouble with internet today so not sure:
https://www.slotmachinerepair.com/copy-of-sigma (https://www.slotmachinerepair.com/copy-of-sigma)
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a "coin mech" will not work unless you cut the Q2 or Q4 on the coin optic board.
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I had forgotten about that, thanks GOS!
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New harness made, replacement comparitor ordered.
Out of curiosity I unplugged the current harness from the comparitor and dropped some quarters in, comparitor loaded with a sample quarter. The quarters went into the hopper but didn't register as credits. So it is doing a comparison against the sample, it just isn't diverting a non match to the payout tray.
I didn't try dropping any other coins in but it's pretty obvious that they would also go into the hopper as Rokgpsman said. Better safe than sorry, so replacement is on the way.
Thanks guys!
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...Out of curiosity I unplugged the current harness from the comparitor and dropped some quarters in, comparitor loaded with a sample quarter. The quarters went into the hopper but didn't register as credits. So it is doing a comparison against the sample, it just isn't diverting a non match to the payout tray.
With the comparitor unplugged it won't be able to do a comparison. The sensor circuit needs power to operate. The round cover that partially covers the sample coin contains a sensor that measure the metallic or magnetic property of the sample coin. The same thing is done on the inserted coin and if they match the cc circuit board activates the rake to let the coin pass thru and drop down to the coin optic boards below. If the signals don't match the rake is not activated and it diverts the inserted coin to the coin path that takes it back to the coin tray on front of machine.
FYI, in case you didn't know-
Located on the front coin optic board there is usually a small switch in one corner. Pressing that switch will add a "test" credit to the machine. This is for testing purposes, you can spin the reels and check operation of the game while the main door is open. Once you close the door these test credits are removed.
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Any idea what would cause false rejections? I installed the replacement I ordered and even with the adjustment pot all the way counter clockwise, it's still rejecting a fair percentage of coins. I tried it in 3 different slots and with several sample quarters with the same results. I'm afraid I might have waited too long since I bought it to ask if I can swap for a different one and I'm curious to know if there's a known fix.
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The usual things to try for this problem are:
1) put a different sample coin in the comparitor. They aren't all the same, and the one in there now might be different enough from the usual coin you are using that they don't match close enough.
2) make sure you have the sample coin installed properly and have the sliding cover as far to the left as possible so that the sample coin is covered as much as possible. Also make sure the sliding cover's screw is tightened firm so that the sliding cover is as close to the surface of the sample coin as it can get. The sliding cover contains the sensor that measures the sample coin's metallic properties.
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Look back at Amechanics post in reply#5. Your coin rejection problem may be from using a CC-33, you probably need a CC-16 if you are going to use quarters. Or modify the CC-33 for use with quarters.
You're right that the typical coin comparitor for an S+ is a CC-16D. The CC-33 is designed for larger coins and it may not work well with quarters. The internal coin path of the CC-33 is wide for use with big coins, the quarter can bounce around in all that space and sometimes not pass over the sensors and that causes a non-match to the sample coin, so the quarter gets rejected. Are you using a CC-33 because that's what was in the machine when you got it? That could be a holdover from when the machine was setup for bigger coins like half-dollars and Eisenhower dollars. The CC-33 may have "guide strips" inside that you can move so that they are closer together for quarter coin usage. Does the CC-33 have a hinged door that you can swing open and see the internals? If so you may be able to fashion some guides that will cause a quarter to slide thru the CC-33 consistently over its sensors.
When you say coins are getting rejected do you mean they are going into the coin tray on front of machine? Or do they go into the hopper but you don't get a credit? If this machine was setup for use with larger coins in the past then the spacer in-between the coin optics boards needs to be checked. If it is for large coins then even if you get the coin comparitor problem fixed you will still have problems The quarters will get accepted but the machine not give you a credit. That's the reason IGT used different parts in the machines depending on what coin the machine was going to be using.
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I think you are right. 33 is probably for larger coins and need the smaller guide for optics.
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I think you are right. 33 is probably for larger coins and need the smaller guide for optics.
Here's the official recommendation from the company that makes the CC-33. They say it is for larger coins, bigger than quarters. It's a similar problem to what happens with the spacer between the coin optics boards, if it is for a large coin then quarters sometimes don't get "seen" by the sensor because the smaller quarter doesn't always follow the right path.
Hat-Tip to Amechanic for mentioning this earlier:
.....The comparitor you had pictured looks to be from a large coin machine, 50c or $1.00.
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The results I'm talking about are from the CC-16D I purchased from KLAR. Tried with different sample quarters and in 3 different slots. I'll check the sliding cover and look for anything else out of place.
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ok - you didn't say you had removed the CC-33 that your original post said was in the machine and that you'd installed a CC-16D. So I thought it still had a CC-33. That's good you have a CC-16D in it now.
Still, you will want to check the coin spacer in-between the coin optic boards. It's probably the wrong spacer or no spacer at all. Where are the un-accepted quarters going - coin tray or hopper?
The coin optics spacer will look something like this:
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Looks like I've got this fixed now. I ended up replacing the capacitor in the comparitor.
It had been replaced before which is why I didn't think it would be the problem. I tried reflowing the solder but it didn't make a difference, so I decided to swap it out. I've powered it on several times now and inserted quarters as soon as it finishes the start up routine with no rejects.