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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: david_germany on May 07, 2014, 11:38:31 AM
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hi
my bally has problems with the upper unit.
sometimes he dont accept the second coin.
sometimes it works, sometimes not...
here is a video of the problem. i cant discribe good in english :-)
http://youtu.be/09l2L7SmsVo (http://youtu.be/09l2L7SmsVo)
can anybody tell me which contact i should clean or how i can fix this problem???
thank you so much !!!!
bye
david
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David,
It looks like your odds step up solenoid/coil is not fully engaging. If it pulls in fully, it should step up the odds gear one step. It looks like it is trying to do that in your video.
Physically check the step up and reset solenoids on your top unit by hand to be sure they do work right.
I am looking at an 809 schematic, and what happens on 2nd coin in is that the odds relay engages (that is a relay with a brown with red wire-61). It is supposed to allow time for the odds solenoid (the one that steps up your disk red with black wire -18) to fully engage. After the odds solenoid fully steps up, it physically opens a thing called the EOS switch. That stands for End of Stroke. If you watch the action as you physically push in the step up solenoid, you will see that the linkage opens up a switch at the edge of the odds unit disk, that has a blue with orange wire --27) The other side of this EOS switch is that 61 wire -- brown/red that runs the first coil, the step up relay coil.
I hope you follow that ok.
IF your EOS opens too soon, then the odds disc may not fully step up, and the machine steals a coin.
Of course, if it does not open at all, you can put in the 2nd coin, and it will step up all the way to 5th coin in and keep stepping, and will make quite a racket.
Try this fix of adjusting your EOS switch, and let us know if that fixes it. Make it so that it opens, but opens very late in the stroke.
If that doesn't fix it, then we'll figure out something else....
Make sure you download the Bally manual so that we are on the same page.
Send pictures of your top unit and odds disc assembly....
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Let me recommend that all you e/m mechanics try this to see how the EOS works.
First,put a piece of matchbook in between the EOS contacts and play the game.
Next, remove matchbook, and clip the two leafs of the EOS together with a small alligator clip.
Then play the game.
What do you see happening?
Curious minds want to know.
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I noticed in the video that there was also a problem resetting the feature unit back to the first column. It took several coins in one instance. I am wondering if there are any problems with the coin switch being intermittent.
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hey
thank you so much for your help.
@rdaniel: the coinswitch is new. i though it too that the coin switch is the problem :(
but isnt...
its very hard for me to understand it :-((((
tonight i will record a new video of the upper unit. perhaps you can see more about the solenoid or the coils ok ?
david
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hey
so i could record a small video of the upper unit.
you can see that the bally try to junp to the second coin...
there is a contactplate with a few metalarms, that rotate after i put the coin in...
http://youtu.be/AQ7IzRYrBLU (http://youtu.be/AQ7IzRYrBLU)
:-(
ive got no idea what i can do !! :(
ill post a picture too... give me 5 minutes...
thank you for your help !!!!
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here are 2 pics
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This is the EOS switch (circled in black) (click the pic) that has been mentioned. Dont let it open up until the very end of the stroke. If it opens early.... you wont get the full length of actuation to the coil that advances the disk for the coin in.
dave
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thank you !!!
i have bend the eos switch a little bit so he will now open later.
but it doesnt fix the problem :-(
http://youtu.be/I-0zqIy2Hg0 (http://youtu.be/I-0zqIy2Hg0)
sometimes he accept the 2nd coin, sometimes not...
:-( do you have an other idea what i can do?
oh damn it !!!!!! :-(
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One thing I have done is to file the switches on the clock side of the mech . I had one switch that was pitted and not making good contact. it looked like it was but it had carbon and didnt make a good contact. The other issue i have had with my 809 is the Beau plug didnt make good contact (hopper plug). Do you have an extension cable to check the units outside of the cabinet? This is a great thing to have if your going to have a few machines. Time consuming to make but well worth the effort to make them. :dancing_2:
Dave
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hi dave
no ive got no cable to use this outside the cabinet :-(
do you mean these switches??
should i clean the contacts??
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ok i have clean these contacts too.
the problem is not fixed :-(((
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I'm thinking that the problem could be with the one coil that counts and advances the stepper.. Looks to have been replaced, but did the install the correct replacement? It acts to be weak or slow? I wonder if it's the same coil as my stepper in my 831?
Gary
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Could be the stepper coil ... good eye .. looks kinda shotty and cant tell the value of it. Might be too heavy of a gauge wire.
The switches i was talking about are the ones located on the side of the reel mech behind the fan or clock. If you need me to send a pic i will if you cant locate it. If need be I can ohnm the proper coil and you can check yours to see if it is the right one. If the wire size is too thick ... it will have too much resistance and might not pull in well enough to advance the disk. Also check the operation of the stepper by hand to see if it advances correctly. Might have a worn gear or stepper arm.
Dave
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The stepper seemed to work fine in the video when it was done by hand.. If you look close at the wires you can see where the soldering iron melted the outer plastic covers on two wires. That coils not original. It wouldn't hurt to clean and check the coin switch contacts, also the contacts on the handle release. I had something similar happen on an 831, and cleaning and adjusting those two switch stacks helped. On this machine I'm leaning towards the step up coil.
Gary
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I lost a post but that's ok.
You can remove the 4 screws that hold the light board onto your top unit. Then you can look inside while the machine is running. You can also pulse the coils with it on this way. You can learn to use a jumper to test stuff, too.
However, please look at the handle switches as the problem. It sounds like the handle assembly switches with colors of blue/yellow(23), and blue/red(21) are not opening after you insert the 1st coin in and the handle paddle drops (is released). Pull out the reel assembly, and look in at them. I bet they are almost touching. carefully bend the shorter blade away just a little bit.
Post a photo, and turn off machine when you leave, you might have a coil sticking on and it will burn out you don't want that.
If you want to understand how the machine works better, read oldreno's trouble shooting post. I think it's in here somewhere. And download the bally manual for better reference of parts.
Nice Pix!!!
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Chances are that the handle relay doesnt drop with the first coin. That is what mine does most of the time and it wont advance the odds relay if it doesnt drop and close the switches.
Dave
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soo
i think the problem is fixed
soon.
now it works but sometimes, i mean sometimes only the machine steals the 2nd coin.
i have cleaned all contacts of the upper amd reel unit.
only the handle release solenoid isnt cleaned.
perhaps i should cleaning the contacts again and more?
http://youtu.be/UkVSwLfExzU (http://youtu.be/UkVSwLfExzU)
sorry for my english !!!!
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oh no :-(
the problem is coming back...
damn it !!!
but i think i should cleaning more the contacts.
ill try this and write you
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I would go over the coin switch contacts on the side of the reels. The set of contacts with the coil to engage them, and I would make sure to clean and check the contacts on the handle release.
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Hi!
I got the same problem with my 888 ( 5-liner). I found that the connectors was to Close or far from each other (can't remember). Check the circled connectors at my Picture.
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When we suggest to "check the switches" we also mean check the actual contact to make sure it is making a good contact, not just the surface being clean. I have had switches that look good but are barely making contact( intermittently)which could cause the machine to do just what your experiencing. Check for continuity with a Volt Meter to insure the contact has i a good solid one.
Dave
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ok dave.
ill try it !!!
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yes !!!! i could fix the problem :-)
there was a contactprobldm at the top unit.
2 contacts was to near together.
now i have bend one contact for more space.
now it works !!!!!
look at the picture.
this contacts are at the right side of the top unit.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouje7kf4cguffvc/Foto%2017.05.14%2014%2037%2046.png (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouje7kf4cguffvc/Foto%2017.05.14%2014%2037%2046.png)
david
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I knew you could do it. :applause: :applause: :applause:
Dave F.
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but only with your help !!!!!!! ;-)
thank you very much :-))))))))
nice weekend
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oh noooooo
:-(
the problem is comming back after a few minutes playing...
:-(
damn it.
i think there is an other problem :-((((
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It looks that it was what I told you a week ago with my pic. But dont Thank me... :-(
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there is a step switch located to left of the circled contact (just above the stepup coil) - that contact is what activates the step up coil - if it doesn't open close correctly the step up will be erratic.
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thanks barry !!!!
i hve checked the step switch and it looks like he's working...
here is a video:
http://youtu.be/PUap6YQDtns (http://youtu.be/PUap6YQDtns)
what do think about it? :-?
the problem is still there but only sometimes, how you see it in the video
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Stepper seems to advance ok ... please check the continuity on the switch I showed you in a previous pic. This is where I had the same problem as yours. It looks to be good and if you put the meters leads on the blade to check it, it will look ok. But check it from the solder tabs and not the blades. I am thinking you have a switch that looks to make contact but it isnt, and thats the one I had the problem with.
Dave :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head: :Scratch-Head:
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Your switch needs much much more push than that. You need to adjust the smaller blade (static) towards the larger blade (actuator blade). I see hardly any movement at all. This switch should stay closed for longer. When switches like these contact, they are supposed to move together, and this allows for the switches to clean themselves. They are self cleaning, and if they don't press well against each other, they won't clean.
They should open at the End Of Stroke, that's why they are called E.O.S. switches, not at the beginning of stroke...which is what yours does.
A general rule of thumb, if you can see a switch push against another switch, it's probably making good contact. If you don't, it probably isn't.
The EOS allows for a holding circuit in the odds relay coil, which will stay on until the odds step up coil has time to fully pull in. Then, when it is fully in, the EOS opens, and the holding circuit drops out, ensuring you have a full step on the solenoid. I think I mentioned the page this circuitry can be found on in your bally manual a few posts ago.
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On page 18 of your bally manual, you can see the circuitry for the odds (step up) relay, and the odds (step up) coil (solenoid). Notice that the odds SU relay, has one of its own switches in line with itself. This is what makes the holding circuit, and the EOS switch is what breaks the holding circuit. Therefor, the odds SU relay will stay on until the odds SU coil steps and physically opens the EOS.
It is an interesting circuit.