**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: Dtabes on March 07, 2023, 07:12:34 AM
Title: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 07, 2023, 07:12:34 AM
Hi there all I have a slant top S+ machine that has no codes on the display, the bottom candle is flashing slow to medium and when trying to put a coin in it just keeps getting rejected. Have tried to adjust the comparitor but no luck
Thanks for the help
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: cav511 on March 08, 2023, 09:05:02 AM
I also have a slant top. Its been a nightmare of a machine. I had the same issue. I removed the hooper and took it apart. I had taken it out prevously and thought coins were moving fine. This time a penny fell out that was jammed in it. Im not sure where it fell out of but I had removed the steel plates. The penny had been in there for a long time, it was very worn and smooth. Im not sure why it didnt give me a code. I also switched the coin comparer with one that I knew was working. I found that the one that was in the machine wasnt responding but was lighting up. Im not sure which one caused the issue because I did both things together. Good luck
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 08, 2023, 10:21:21 AM
Hi there thanks for that good info... Do you know where you got the used or functioning coin comparator?
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: shortrackskater on March 08, 2023, 10:25:38 AM
Did your machine work before? And, just to rule this out - does it take bills?
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 08, 2023, 12:48:45 PM
I do not know if it worked before was a machine my father in law owned.... Had a dead battery on board, replaced that.... Got the 64 code and did what we needed to and it cleared so that part seems well. It does not take bills but do see the red optic light in there
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: sixcardmark on March 08, 2023, 12:54:32 PM
If you cleared machine you need a set chip to enable the BV and set the denom.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 09, 2023, 07:59:10 AM
Thank you. I do have a set of chips can you provide the procedure? The coins falling though and coming in the tray would be the cause of the bill changer not working or reset?
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jay on March 09, 2023, 03:56:13 PM
On our home page - there is Ricks FAQs on the bottom right - Here is a quick link to using the set chip but there is a wealth of information to be found here. http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/dbv.htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/dbv.htm)
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: shortrackskater on March 09, 2023, 05:09:00 PM
And to add to Jay's reply, take some time and read the "LOOK HERE FIRST" in the S plus section. Lots of good information there for future issues. :yes:
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 18, 2023, 10:52:10 AM
Ok here is the update on the problem I have been having. I still have no codes and the bottom candle is flashing. On the coin display it says 0 see pic, and when I put a coin in, it just drops out. I have replaced the coin comparator from another machine that I know works and the same issue just drops through and nothing registers. If I push the small white button on the comparator board it registers a coin and I can manually spin the machine. If I push it a couple times it will put up to 3 quarters in there and the reels spin. No coins will work at all though registering it but looks as if the insert coins is lit
That is where I am at the moment as I try to narrow this down
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on March 18, 2023, 11:07:36 AM
Your machine is almost ready to go. It just needs better coin acceptance. If you're using quarters, install a quarter in the coin comparitor. On the comparitor itself, use a small Philips screwdriver, turn the sensitivity dial fully counter-clockwise until it stops, and then turn it a 1/4 turn clock-wise. That will put the coin acceptance in the ballpark. I can't remember offhand, but turning the dial fully one way or another, allows any coin to be accepted....try that if it doesn't work the 1st time.
There are tests you can try but this may help for now.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Tilt on March 18, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
When you say drops through do you mean rejected or the coin drops into the hopper? If it's going into the hopper then you may have a large coin insert in the optics which would allow the coin to drop through without registering. The small coin insert guides the coin through the optics before it reaches the hopper. Post some pictures of the comparitor optics and someone will be able to tell you.
Do not use a clear chip on your machine at this point. You'll just mess up a bunch of settings and create more problems. Your machine is booting up correctly, so do yourself a favor and leave it alone. You can use the SET chip if you want to for the bill validator, but don't use the clear.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 18, 2023, 03:12:03 PM
A big shout out to everyone for all the help thus far on things. When I drop a coin in, it falls straight to the tray on the right. Nothing registers it just fall through. I have tried adjusting the comparator but that did not seem to help.
As mentioned, I took my comparator from another .25 machine and tried that but still does the same thing. I was trying process of elimination because the one I put on as a test works fine on another one of our machines.
Also, no error codes which is GREAT for me but the bottom candle is still blinking. The only time I can get the machine to work is by pressing that little white button which does act as a coin drop and registers.
If I tried another coin comparator that is to work not sure what else it could be
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Tilt on March 18, 2023, 05:32:03 PM
If it's falling back into the coin tray then it's being rejected. The candle lower candle will continue to flash until a game is played and then it will stop. Are all the doors closed properly? When you shut the top cover the display should go blank, then light up a few seconds later along with the insert coins light. Does it do that?
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on March 19, 2023, 06:14:07 AM
Can you show us a photo of the coin comparitor installed in it's clip holder? :sherlock: It sounds like you have something wrong there.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Jim on March 19, 2023, 08:06:42 AM
Shim the rake out of the body of the cc-16, then see if it accepts the coin or gives you a 21 code. If 21 code, then clip Q-2 or Q-4 off the coin optic board, this should correct your problem.
Jim
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: knagl on March 19, 2023, 11:15:41 AM
When you close the main hatch door, does the "0" in the LED coins played display go blank for a second or two and then come back? If not, your machine isn't sensing that the door is closed and it will not attempt to accept a coin.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jonbbrew on March 19, 2023, 05:58:00 PM
When you close the main hatch door, does the "0" in the LED coins played display go blank for a second or two and then come back? If not, your machine isn't sensing that the door is closed and it will not attempt to accept a coin.
X2
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 20, 2023, 07:15:27 AM
He is the pic of the coin comparator as requested
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jay on March 20, 2023, 07:43:11 AM
You might want to check out this post by Dinoman, and subsequent comments by Mark (Stayoutofthebunker) about ensuring your CC-16D is the right voltage.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 21, 2023, 10:49:42 AM
Here are some of the photos. Video to come
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on March 21, 2023, 12:50:40 PM
I painted the rake GREEN for you. At the pointed end of the RED ARROW, stick something under the rake to hold the rake fully open, as Jim suggested in Reply #15. A piece of rubber or some cardboard will work.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 22, 2023, 04:27:17 AM
Ok I will try that.... Here is a video of quarters going in
Thank you is there a place to get them or something to show how to adjust them?
Doug
Post pictures...Also, check the switch in your cash can drawer to make sure its closing
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: knagl on March 24, 2023, 08:59:33 PM
Back in Reply #16 (https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=38864.msg206238#msg206238) I asked about your display when you close the door and my question went unanswered.
In the video, we can see that the machine is not detecting that the door is closed. We can also see that your belly door is not installed. Unless it has been bypassed, the belly door has a sensor to detect if it is open or closed, and your machine will not play if the belly door is not installed.
Install the belly door and then please address if the display changes when you close the main hatch door.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 25, 2023, 05:44:53 AM
ok great I will report back today with a few things
Cheers
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Jim on March 25, 2023, 09:32:32 AM
unlike upright machines, which typically have one set of optics and typically one or two sets of a switch loop , cash can, belly door, the slant top has many switch loops, panel underneath the arm rest, some have overflow door switches, the top award glass has a cherry switch and on some models, the bill validator door . any one of these being open can prevent the main door optics from operating.
Hope this helps.
Jim
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 25, 2023, 12:39:33 PM
ok everyone here is the update as of March 25th at 2:30pm. I have tried a few things as requested and here is what I found:
- Tried inserting a piece of cardboard to hold the "slot rake" open when putting in coins and that did nothing and there were no error codes that displayed - If I push the white little button it adds a credit, pushing again adds another etc... Once I have 3 credits then I push the spin button and the machine spins and functions. I cannot add coins and pushing that button puts credits in and allows me to spin the machine - see my first attached pic - Opened the bill acceptor to make sure the door was closed. It was and made sure it was firm - Looked at the door optics and they seem to me aligned. - Closed all the door and "belly" doors and when latched the machine went blank, candle light went out and then the reels spun, insert coin light came up and "0" on the coin display. After inserting coins they still got rejected. (see video link) https://youtube.com/shorts/c2b2eoYs1fs?feature=share - One thing I did not towards the back of the machine was 2 wires off? and one of the optics for the door looks like it was capped off (see pics)
I feel like I am REALLY REALLY close here to getting this working and have NO ERROR CODES on the display
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: sixcardmark on March 25, 2023, 01:25:03 PM
Door optics are now working!! Try putting a different coin in the comparitor and turning the adjustment knob on it almost all the way counter clock wise.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: knagl on March 25, 2023, 01:30:32 PM
Hi Doug,
Yes, you're getting significantly closer now. The fact that the Coins Played display goes blank for a few seconds after you close the door is a very good sign. That indicates that the machine is correctly seeing the doors as closed and should be ready to accept a coin.
As such, I wouldn't focus on the loose wires you've found. The red ones that are capped off are likely in line with the rest of the optics loop, but again your optics are working correctly since you're seeing proof of that when you firmly close the door. I know you said you've tried adjusting the sensitivity on your coin comparator, but that's where I'd be looking again. Also ensure that your sample quarter is seated properly. I can't tell for sure if it is or not in your picture. Here is a video I made a while ago about seating the coin and adjusting the sensitivity. While my video is from an upright machine, it still applies here:
As was suggested earlier in the thread, too, would be to shim the rake open. If you do that, coins will be accepted into the hopper of the machine no matter what, and you can see at that point if they give credit or not. If after you've shimmed the rake back and they're still being rejected to the coin tray, you haven't successfully shimmed the rake.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on March 25, 2023, 01:52:46 PM
" Tried inserting a piece of cardboard to hold the "slot rake" open when putting in coins and that did nothing..."
Yeah, but which way did the coins fall? Into the hopper, the coin tray, or the drop hole?
Sounds like it's time to check if the encoder IS the correct sized one for quarters, rather than for the larger casino tokens. You can see in the photo I've attached below that the quarters would probably miss the optic holes on the left, if the token encoder guide is installed. The "B" optic is the furthest hole to the left. The correct encoder for quarters would be the bottom one.
Anyways, if good, then the popsicle stick test should be done to confirm if the ABC optics are any good? The coins that are falling thru it are NOT registering credit data from the CC to the MPU. The popsicle test would be on page one of the Self-Tests #10, 11, and 12.
Click on any of the photos below to enlarge if needed...>>>
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 26, 2023, 05:20:02 AM
Yes with the rake open the coins fell into the hopper and there were no errors that came up. They did not register a credit on the coin meter though either.
I think I forgot to add that part in my notes
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on March 26, 2023, 02:09:14 PM
You also forgot to tell us if you have the right encoder installed in between the sandwiched coin-in optics? Put that in your notes too :fryingpan:
Pull out whatever you have stuck in there to hold the rake open....time to run the popsicle tests. For your information, the coins are supposed to fall into the hopper - if held open or down into the coin tray - if closed. If the hopper is full to the top with coins, the coins touching the grounding bolt makes the coin soleniod gate open to direct coins down into the drop hole.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Tilt on March 26, 2023, 04:48:27 PM
I asked him about the coin optics block in reply #11. No response.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 27, 2023, 03:24:16 PM
Thanks everyone I will report back in what I find for the encoder as I have been on the road for a couple days. I will also perform the "popsicle test"
Thanks and appreciate all the help
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 30, 2023, 11:28:28 AM
Thank you all back in town and going to do the "popsicle" test. Can someone point to the step by step to do that? Also I am not sure if I am following the ABC optic tests.... I am so sorry as this is pretty new to me and to you guys it is old news so understanding the language all the time on what buttons to push and what it should be during the test is what I need...
I know I am close and it is because of this forum that this has happened so I am BEYOND GRATEFUL and appreciate your patience with me
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jay on March 30, 2023, 01:40:09 PM
The popsicle test basically tests the ABC optics.
First understand the coin path.
You drop a coin into the front slot of a S+ The first test is the coin comparitor - if the metal properties of the coin match then the coin is considered accepted and if not its considered rejected. At this point the coin is still falling and then gets to the optic(s) sitting directly below the coin comparitor.
Assuming the coin is free falling it passes by the optics - there are 3 sensors.... A,B & C. When the two sides of the optics see each other its considered a closed circuit (1) and when the coin passes by A, that optic will change from a 1 to a 0 showing that the line of sight path is broken. The coin continues to fall and does the same with B and finally C. After the coin passes each sensor it goes back to a 1. The sequence of open to closed must be A,B,C and it must be done at a certain rate of speed. (yes - If earths Gravity changes then it will impact a lot of slots - like that is our biggest worry if Gravity does shift on us).
This is a security measure, as one way of cheating was to hook up a string to a coin (thus the term stringing) - this will pass the metals test by the comparator, it might pass the optics test and give a credit, but the moment that coin reverses (as someone pulls back the string) the sequence of ABC is reversed and you get CBA and as such a 21 error (Coin in TILT). Early slots with mechanical mechs could be beaten by putting in a stick and early optic sensors were singular so they could either be beaten by a stick or a light pen to momentarily blind the optic. First attempts to beat the stick was to make a complicated coin path so the stick would not make it to the optic. The combination of the comparator and the optics made the slot pretty theft free.
Getting back to the falling coin..... Once its passed the optic there is a Rake (metal diverter) that gets pushed back by a solenoid provided that it has passed the comparator test and successfully passed by ABC at the right rate of speed. If either of the two tests fail then the solenoid doesn't engage and the coin free falls into the coin tray rather than the hopper.
A common problem with the older slots (most S+ made in the 80s are now 40+ years old) is that the solenoid can burn out (age) and many (including casinos) simply wire tied back the rake and and allowed all coins to go to the hopper. This caused other issues like coin jams when someone started feeding in a bunch of pennies or dimes instead of quarters that all got dropped into the hopper as they would not fit properly on the hopper wheel and would occasionally get jammed. Worse case is they got behind the hopper knife (especially dimes) and bent it so coins would not fall out properly or a large coin like a dollar token could break off the hopper optic. Usually large coins got blocked by either the insert at the top of the machine or the optics as they are spaced and sized for different coin types.
Digressing here if you have a 21 error that won't go away - its likely because the optic board is either dirty or bad. The popsicle test simply allows you to use a popsicle like stick through the coin slot that will in-turn block each optic and make it go from a 1 to a 0 and removing the stick makes it go from 0 to 1. This will identify which optic is bad. You can then try cleaning it with water and a qtip. Don't use alcohol as it will cloud the optic and damage it.
Coins are dirty and dirty optics can be cleaned. Next to the stack of coin buckets there was always finger wipe packages. From a casino perspective - Hail TITO (no more dirty coins, no more hopper jams, no filthy coin buckets that people used as spitoons and ashtrays, dumped drinks into or literally used as a bathroom because they would not leave their slots). Big savings here from a casino perspective. I do like the ping ping ping noise of coins hitting the tray.
if the optic is bad - probably quickest to order a new set from one of the vendors listed on the home page as a board level repair is outside most peoples skill level.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on March 30, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Jay, could you repeat that? I didn't get it all... :joke:
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jay on March 30, 2023, 02:06:00 PM
ya ya ya. just keep :stirthepot: :spam: :spam: :spam: :spam: :agreepost:
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on March 31, 2023, 04:53:13 AM
That was a WELL THOUGHT out and detailed answer and sooooo much appreciate that. That helped me tremendously with things and I will be reporting back as I will be working on it again over the weekend
Thanks again
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on April 02, 2023, 05:39:45 PM
Ok everyone here is a HUGE UPDATE.... Think I have mostly resolved the problem. It appears that it is the solenoid (45003600-A). I have been taking parts from another machine and kept replacing till it came to this and I was able to insert coins and play the machine... I CANNOT BELIEVE it....
So now I have to get one of these and do not know where so if someone can point me in the right direction that would be great. I have attached the pic of it....
Also, even though I can play the machine, I still have the candle light on the bottom that is rapidly flashing but the machine functions so I am not complaint at all just have to get one of these to be able to put back in my other machine
THANK YOU ALL for your patience and helping me through this. For the first time I was able to see my mom have a huge smile on her face
Cheers
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Tilt on April 02, 2023, 06:25:26 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but that's a diverter solenoid and doesn't have anything to do with coin acceptance or issuing a credit for the coin. When the coin hopper gets full it energizes and diverts the coin into the drop box at the bottom of the machine. By the time the coin reaches the diverter the coin has already passed through the comparitor successfully and the machines coin in optic block too.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on April 03, 2023, 05:30:59 AM
hmmmmmm now I am really scratching my head..... This was the only thing narrowed down to and the machine starting working.... Now I have no idea what is happening...
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on April 03, 2023, 05:59:21 AM
Something else you did prior to changing the divertor coil caused better coin acceptance. It could be something as simple as dis-connecting and re-connecting a Molex connector on the coin mech harness. Maybe you rubbed off a thin, oxidized coating on the housing pins in the connectors and created better pin contact?
When you connected the wires back, and then you threw a coin in, it made you think the change of the solenoid solved the problem. In a way it did, but it has nothing to do with coin acceptance, as Tilt pointed out. Anyways, it's working now....leave it alone! haha
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jay on April 03, 2023, 06:07:38 AM
Along those same lines .. you could reconnect this device. You don’t need to mount it. Just connect it and see if the part works or more important if the con acceptance stops working.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on April 06, 2023, 06:44:46 AM
It works so go figure on things... I have no idea but not complaining. I still have a fast flashing on the bottom candle but things are working so I am not sure if I want to open that can of worms at this point unless it was something easy
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on April 06, 2023, 06:46:23 AM
Thank the good lord... The only advice I have is check all your connections over and over... I still have a fast blinking bottom candle but the machine works properly now
Doug
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: jay on April 06, 2023, 09:15:12 AM
The fast flashing indicates that the door is open.
You have 3 doors. "The Door", thats the main door - given your game plays - that door must be sensed as closed otherwise your coins would just be dropping into the coin tray and we would be back at the bottom of this thread.
The belly door and the cash can door are the other two. Given this is a slant top - you don't have a belly - to have a door but your reel glass does lift up and their might be a button or optic behind that.
Typically the locks for these other two have been removed. My understanding is that these are removed as the Casino has them custom keyed and they are re-used on other games so the reseller has never even seen them.
On one of my slots the cash can door doesn't stay closed. I suspect some security dude bent it at some point of its service life. They have size 14 thumbs. I used a small bit of electrical tape to hold it closed and this solved my problem.
The other thought i had is perhaps your candle is wired wrong..... Does this flashing light change if you hit the "Change" button on the left ? When I hit mine my top candle light flashes fast. The change girl never shows up in my basement but I can turn the light on/off at will.
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Dtabes on April 10, 2023, 06:56:29 AM
Hi there I will def look at them and see if I can find something. When putting the change light on the bottom candle still remains fast flashing... The only time I see the candle go off is when I close the top and the door latches. Teh screen goes blank then once that is done the reels spin and lock allowing me to play but the bottom candle starts flashing rapidly
Thanks everyone again
Title: Re: S Plus Slant Top - No Codes, medium flashing bottom candle
Post by: Stayouttadabunker on April 10, 2023, 06:59:40 AM
The candle flashes until you've completed one game, after closing all of the the door sensors on the cabinet.