809-ZZC paying coins with mixing cycle.

[Phan000]

While it seems quite generous,  I don’t want it to continue.

The machine pays a couple of coin every time the mixer kicks in.

What would be the reason for this bonus pay?

[Pinballwizard55]

More than likely the coin diverter knife, located at the top of the hopper ,is out of adjustment. you may have to bend it downward having it ride along the top of the hopper disc. Also make sure the spring has not fallen off. Good luck , the wizard.

[Phan000]

The knife seems like it’s well adjusted, coins come out normally during payout.


What is supposed to prevent coins being paid during a normal
Mix cycle?

[Pinballwizard55]

that knife should protrude out across the top of the payout disc during the mix process, it is drawn in away from the disc during payout, make sure you don,t have stuck contacts on the payout relay. The wizard.

[Phan000]

So it was the knife.  Wouldn’t move at all.

Very strange,  then I saw that someone had zip tied this tight.

Wonder the logic? 

[wolftalk]

So it was the knife.  Wouldn’t move at all.

Very strange,  then I saw that someone had zip tied this tight.

Wonder the logic? 

assuming they didn't want the extra coins coming out, only reason to do that is if the override solenoid coil failed or the circuit didn't work. 

if the game pays properly with the zip tie removed, I'd guess someone fixed the problem but didn't remove the zip tie ... or the hopper was used in a game that didn't mix so the occasional extra coin ejected at the end of a pay wasn't noticed.

[Phan000]

The reset coil for the coin counter was bad.  Former owner said the machine would pay like crazy when you win.

Maybe this was a short cut to have it paying and playable without that coil?

[wolftalk]

the override solenoid can't make payout last longer

not sure if the "coin counter" is the payout counter or the coin unit.

a non-working reset coil on the coin unit would make a single coin give you the 5 coin odds (once the coin unit had reached five coins).

a non-working reset coil on the payout counter would make the game only pay wins that were higher than previous wins, and it would only pay the difference.  e.g. if always playing one coin and you won 5 you'd get paid.   Win 5 again, you'd get nothing.  If you then won 20, you'd get 15 more coins.

the only jobs of the override solenoid are:
- preventing an extra coin from ejecting when the hopper coasts to a stop after a payout ends
- on lower hit frequency games that mix the coins, preventing any coins from coming out during mix

when bally changed to the "snow" hopper, they got rid of the override solenoid and added a brake on the hopper motor armature/rotor so it stops instantly when the payout is done.   There's no way to deflect coins from ejecting, so they don't mix.  I guess the different bowl design and star agitator made mixing not needed.

[Phan000]

The mixing cycle pay issue has returned.  It was very infrequent for a while, and now constantly pays a few coins, whenever the mixer turns.

What would cause this?

[Pinballwizard55]

Is your hopper disc a factory original or was it cut down to accept a larger coin, example: converting a nickel machine to a quarter.

[wolftalk]

did you fix the override solenoid so it only powers when the payout relay powers?

is the override solenoid powering when the mixer relay powers?  - it shouldn't.

can you post a picture of the diverter when the solenoid is not powered, ideally when a coin is near it and when a coin is partway under the stainless plate attached to the top of the diverter.  You want to make sure the coin is not getting caught on the plate.

see https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Hopper_Diverter.mp4

[Phan000]

The override solenoid is intermittently powering during the mixing cycle.  It does consistently pull back during payment,  but also during mixing.

When I initially removed the zip-tie,  I tested for a long time and did not have any coins come out during mixing.

Now,  it is more frequent and coins come out almost every mixing cycle.

[DavidLee]

Off the top of my head, isn’t there a lite weight spring associated with the solenoid mechanism?

[wolftalk]

Off the top of my head, isn’t there a lite weight spring associated with the solenoid mechanism?

there's a spring attached to the deflector arm where the override solenoid connects ... looks like the spring is there.

the override solenoid should not power during mixing.

is this the game converted to fruit pays?  If yes, then the mixing is not needed and you could just disconnect the mixer relay. 

if it's still a jackpot-only/lightning kinda game (really is an 809-ZZC) with less frequent pays, then check the payout relay switch with the white/blue 52-2 and white/brown 56-6 wires.  Make sure that switch is open when the payout relay is unpowered, and the switch gap is big enough that vibration from the hopper running doesn't intermittently close the switch.

[Phan000]

It’s still jackpot only.  Not a lot of fun to play.

I adjusted the gap on that payout relay switch.  The gap was very tight.

Seems to be working properly again.

Thanks!