Bally 742A 417 12/30/1969

[David Walz]

Bally 742A 417 Year made 12/30/1969

I need some information on this machine, specifications, drawings, etc. 

Could you look and see if you have information on this Bally Binions horseshoe please.
Wiring w-1046-938
Payout counter w-923-10
Reel glass g-349-321
Bottom glass
Index wheels p-484-1058,1059, 1060
Contact plate wiring w-1041-290, 291, 292
Tapes m-220-1299, 1300, 1301
42 way
Left to right
20 stop
single line

[slcjeeper]

Looks like a fun project. A little history on this machine reveals it’s more of a Frankenmachine. The 742A-417 was originally made for Binions themed as a 42 Pay. The original machine was a single line, 20 stop with pay from left to right only. This machine has been converted to a 1090 22 stop which pays L-R and R-L. The serial plate has been removed and reattached, the laminate redone, which explains the condition. Though it’s a long way from original, it’s still a nice machine.

[David Walz]

Looks like a fun project. A little history on this machine reveals it’s more of a Frankenmachine. The 742A-417 was originally made for Binions themed as a 42 Pay. The original machine was a single line, 20 stop with pay from left to right only. This machine has been converted to a 1090 22 stop which pays L-R and R-L. The serial plate has been removed and reattached, the laminate redone, which explains the condition. Though it’s a long way from original, it’s still a nice machine.

Do you have any information about the machine.

[wolftalk]

I emailed ya a couple files, but most of the info for a 742A-417 is not going to be useful to ya per what slcsleeper said ... tho it's not a 1090 as that's a 3 coin multiplier.  You have something more akin to a 1088 buy-a-pay but with all the pays enabled on one coin.

what you want to do is identify what index discs you have in the machine now ... look for the codes stamped on them.

you don't have the original glass or reel tapes.

you may have the original payout counter with minimal changes. 

you may have the original reel wipers/contact plates with significant changes.

basically, to convert a machine you usually need different index discs, reel tapes and glass, then you need to rewire the reel wiper boards, possibly change the way the reel wiper fingers are connected together, and maybe change the payout counter wiring - or worse, the payout counter disc to support the pays the glass wants.

generally, you convert to the same style machine or a simpler one.  e.g. it would require a lot more stuff to turn a 742A into a 1090 because you you'd need to add pieces to do payout multiplication - there's probably not enough room in the cabinet to do it.

[David Walz]

I emailed ya a couple files, but most of the info for a 742A-417 is not going to be useful to ya per what slcsleeper said ... tho it's not a 1090 as that's a 3 coin multiplier.  You have something more akin to a 1088 buy-a-pay but with all the pays enabled on one coin.

what you want to do is identify what index discs you have in the machine now ... look for the codes stamped on them.

you don't have the original glass or reel tapes.

you may have the original payout counter with minimal changes. 

you may have the original reel wipers/contact plates with significant changes.

basically, to convert a machine you usually need different index discs, reel tapes and glass, then you need to rewire the reel wiper boards, possibly change the way the reel wiper fingers are connected together, and maybe change the payout counter wiring - or worse, the payout counter disc to support the pays the glass wants.

generally, you convert to the same style machine or a simpler one.  e.g. it would require a lot more stuff to turn a 742A into a 1090 because you you'd need to add pieces to do payout multiplication - there's probably not enough room in the cabinet to do it.

I will get started.
684-307, 684-306, 684-305
M-645-144

[wolftalk]

'course, I didn't think of the possibility that it's a 1090 with only the 1 coin odds, so +1 point to slcsleeper.

the 305-307 index discs are the most common ones used on the 1090, so take a look at the 1090 info and see if your reel tapes match ... which they don't.

the definition for the slot depths on the 305 index disc from the top of the tape is 6,4,3,4,1 ... which corresponds to 7,BE,PL,BE,CH ...

depth 1 is the shallowest slot, so a 7 would be the deepest slot on the disc.

your reel 1 tape is 7,BE,PL,BE,PL  - PL instead of CH.

they can't just hijack the depth 1 slot for another PL because there's also a cherry at index position 13 with a slot depth of 1.

your pay table has 6 unique symbols and a 305 index disc has 6 different slot depths.  You could reassign the depths to different symbols and change the tapes, but you must have the same symbol at positions with the same slot depth ... or enough extra slot depths to have the same symbol map to two+ different depths (which is how they did some multi-line games to detect wins on multiple lines).

if seems either you don't have a 305 disc or it's been modified ... got a picture of the entire disc?

[David Walz]

'course, I didn't think of the possibility that it's a 1090 with only the 1 coin odds, so +1 point to slcsleeper.

the 305-307 index discs are the most common ones used on the 1090, so tape a look at the 1090 info and see if your reel tapes match ... which they don't.

the definition for the slot depths from on the 305 index disc from the top of the tape is 6,4,3,4,1 ... which corresponds to 7,BE,PL,BE,CH ...

depth 1 is the shallowest slot, so a 7 would be the deepest slot on the disc.

your reel 1 tape is 7,BE,PL,BE,PL  - PL instead of CH.

they can't just hijack the depth 1 slot for another PL because there's also a cherry at index position 13 with a slot depth of 1.

your pay table has 6 unique symbols and a 305 index disc has 6 different slot depths.  You could reassign the depths to different symbols and change the tapes, but you must have the same symbol at positions with the same slot depth.

if seems either you don't have a 305 disc or it's been modified ... got a picture of the entire disc?

It sounds like a mishmash of crap.
 
Please resend me the email to: david@wasillalocksmith.com thanks a lot.

[wolftalk]

looks like someone was ambitious on this refurb and changed the depth of one slot on the 305 index disc - which is fine.  The slots need to match the tapes.

when ya get something like what you have, assume the game was correctly modified and fully functional.  It won't match any bally documentation, but you could modify the bally docs to make paperwork that matches your game (e.g. make your own index disc definition file, payout counter diagram, etc.). 

you have a good chance that the reel wiper wiring matches the 1090 since the refurb folks usually just copied what bally did when possible, but everything else is probably different so the 1090 docs won't apply.

below is your disc with the slot depths indicated.   The slot with the arrow was originally depth 1, but they've carved it down to depth 3 ... changing a cherry into a plum.

it'd be interesting to get your reel tape symbol lists for all three reels to see what the game payback turns out to be.

I'd probably write or etch into the disc that it's a 684-305-modified or whatever so the next person doesn't wonder wtf ... not that it's likely anyone would need to replace the tapes or use the disc as an unmodified 305 for some reason :-)

wonder if your other tapes/index discs are different than one of the standard 1090 configs also.

the 1090 info is in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1090.  From the info.txt file (below) there's a couple different payback percentage version, neither of which match your setup.  I'd guess whoever made your game wanted lower payback. 

your payout counter disc is also different from a 1090, but that's not a problem.  The payout disc just needs to support the pays the game needs, and often many discs could be used as some of the traces weren't needed for any particular machine.  You have a payout disc capable of doing 40 pays, but you don't need that ability.  The disc can handle 2, 5, 10, 14, 18, 20, 50, 100 pays, so it does what you need.

model                   : 1090
description            : 3 coin multiplier ($1)
customer              : bally sales
reel tapes             : m-231-[12, 46, 14] - 97.46%
                              m-231-[12, 13, 14] - 94.5%

reel contact plate wiring : w-1041-[2694, 2695, 2696]

schematic             : w-1046-1836
payout counter      : w-923-471
reel glass              : g-388-64
bottom glass         : g-387-75
feature glass         : g-399-10
index reels            : p-684-[305, 347, 307] - 97.46%
                              p-684-[305, 306, 307] - 94.5%

[David Walz]

Thanks.
I'm going to restore this to it's former self. No trans here, It's going to be back to the original game. 
I located a w-923-10.
You sent me the w-923-10 wiring.
You sent me the contact plate wiring w-1041-290, 291, 292

 

Wiring w-1046-938
Index wheels p-484-1058,1059, 1060
Tapes m-220-1299, 1300, 1301

[wolftalk]

the payout disc is the easy part and doesn't actually matter as the one you have in there now likely supports the pays the original game had.  The only 42 way game I have paper for had 2, 5, 10, 14, 18, 100 and 200 pays ... but other 42 way games may be different.  You have to get glass first then deal with what payout disc you need.

where are you going to get the correct glass, reel tapes and index discs?   Remember, the change a game to something else, you need:
- glass with the payouts
- reel tapes with the right symbols for the glass
- index discs that match the tapes
- payout disc that supports all the pays per the glass
- rewiring of the reel wiper boards and wiper fingers - which is generally always possible

from the incomplete the paperwork I have, the games that used index discs 1058, 1059 and 1060 are:
- 742A-417
- 808-ZP

both games made for binions's horseshoe casino.  Your odds of finding parts needed to make a 742A-417 is almost zero.  If you knew what the glass said and wanted to empty a couple piggy banks, you could in theory have glass, tapes and index discs made. 

if the number on the serial plate bothers ya, maybe better to change the number/plate or just remove it :-)  You have a single coin 1090 in a 742A style cabinet with a nonsense serial plate ... nothing much wrong with that. 

[David Walz]

I have friends in low places, will keep in touch. 

I need to figure out the SA/BA means on the reel tape.

[David Walz]

the payout disc is the easy part and doesn't actually matter as the one you have in there now likely supports the pays the original game had.  The only 42 way game I have paper for had 2, 5, 10, 14, 18, 100 and 200 pays ... but other 42 way games may be different.  You have to get glass first then deal with what payout disc you need.

where are you going to get the correct glass, reel tapes and index discs?   Remember, the change a game to something else, you need:
- glass with the payouts
- reel tapes with the right symbols for the glass
- index discs that match the tapes
- payout disc that supports all the pays per the glass
- rewiring of the reel wiper boards and wiper fingers - which is generally always possible

from the incomplete the paperwork I have, the games that used index discs 1058, 1059 and 1060 are:
- 742A-417
- 808-ZP

both games made for binions's horseshoe casino.  Your odds of finding parts needed to make a 742A-417 is almost zero.  If you knew what the glass said and wanted to empty a couple piggy banks, you could in theory have glass, tapes and index discs made. 

if the number on the serial plate bothers ya, maybe better to change the number/plate or just remove it :-)  You have a single coin 1090 in a 742A style cabinet with a nonsense serial plate ... nothing much wrong with that.

I'm looking for the drawings for this:
Index wheels
P-484-1058
P-484-1059
P-484-1060

[wolftalk]

I'm looking for the drawings for this:
Index wheels
P-484-1058
P-484-1059
P-484-1060

I emailed it to you yesterday.  File too big to post here.

the drawing contains all the info needed to make a disc ... diameter, slot depths, slot curvature, etc.  ... all ya need is the appropriate steel and a way to machine the thing - these days a laser cutter or waterjet.   

the 417 had a HS/BA symbol, which is a horseshoe printed on top of a bar. 

other 42 way games had ST/BAR (stardust casino) and FR/BAR (fremont casino)

SA/BA maybe sahara or sands casino ... where did SA/BA come from?