New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: gkulp on November 29, 2016, 03:46:07 PM
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Gents (and Ladies),
I am troubleshooting a Bally E-2000 that is no longer functioning. It has worked previously, but no longer. When testing voltages, as well as regular operation. should the key on the right of the machine that engages a switch internal to the machine be engaged (actuating the machine) or not engaged?
Thanks a bunch for the help,
Greg
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Greg, That key switch on the right side of the cabinet is for Book Keeping and jackpot resets. Do you see any numbers in the win meter? Check your power supply plug on the board behind the hopper. You have 4 test loops on the power supply. 1 is ground, the other 3 should have voltages of 5V, 7.5V, and 10V. Last thing to check is the condition of the power cord where it comes out from under the machine. I have brought home machines that had exposed and broken wires on the cord. Did you check the fuses?
Gary
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Gary,
With the jackpot reset key unengaged the win meter says 71.000.
The cord looks OK. Has some electrical tape in one location, but no exposed wires.
Checking the test loops I get the following:
For the 5 volt test, I get 4.42 volts
For the 7.5 volt test, I get 6.97 volts
For the 10 volt test, I get 9.45 volts
Looks like I am loosing ~0.5 volts somewhere.
All of the fuses look OK.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Greg
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5v Regulator on the power supply could be bad. Did you check the bridge rectifier and diodes on the power supply? Also check the solder joints on it power supply header pins.
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You have moved way over my head on that one. How do I check the bridge rectifier and diodes? Also, where are the header pins? Is there a way to repair the 5v regulator, or am I looking at a new power supply board?
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There are after market power supply's on Ebay for $59.00. They run cooler and are made from 100% new components. I have some and they work great. That might be the best way to go if your not use to repairing electronics.
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Are there any additional checks I can make to ensure the power supply is bad before I replace it?
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I would test it two different way.. One replace it with a known good part to see if the machine works, or put that PS in a working machine.. Those old power supply's have gone thru many power cycles. If your planning on keeping this machine for your self, then I would invest in the new part. There are used one on Ebay, but for the extra few buck I'd go new..
Gary
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gkulp, Gary's advice is good. You can buy another replacement power supply and hope that takes care of it, but something else in the machine that is bad could be pulling the 5vdc power down and making your power supply appear to be bad. The only reasonably easy way to know for sure is to test your power supply in another machine, or install a replacement power supply into your machine. If you are handy with wiring you could disconnect all the wires from the 5vdc output of the power supply and see if the 4.4vdc measurement jumps up to the 5vdc it should be. But that may require soldering or other stuff you aren't comfortable doing.
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UPDATE:
I pulled the board out, and scraped/rubbed the leads where the plug attaches to the board, put it back together and got the following voltages:
For the 5 volt test, I get 5.01 volts
For the 7.5 volt test, I get 7.03 volts
For the 10 volt test, I get 9.67 volts
What could cause the loss of voltage on the 7.5 and 10 volt circuits? Still a dying board?
Greg
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The pin connectors in the power supply plug could be tarnished, or as i mentioned before the solder joints or connection on the back of the power supply could be cracked. That is known as a cold solder joint. This happens over time with heat cycles. Take the power supply off and check the solder on the header pins. Those are the pins your power supply plug attaches too. It might be smart to remove all the board plugs a reseat them. I'm still leaning toward a tired power supply. If that machines from the Mid 1980's, them that makes the power supply 30 years old. They don't last forever.
Gary
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Your voltages in your last post (#9) are not that far from normal, you may have something else bad if the machine doesn't try to work. For example, don't expect the 10 vdc test point to be exactly 10.000 vdc. As electronic parts age one of the things that happens is that capacitors dry out and no longer do the job they are supposed to. Many capacitors in power supplies are the electrolytic type, they contain a paste inside and that paste dries out over the years. Sometimes people replace these type capacitors and the circuit board works better. But really, with the voltages you reported in post #9 I would think the machine would work or partly come alive as long as nothing else is wrong. But I am not an expert on your model of machine, so this is just opinion.
Does the machine do anything when you turn it on, insert a coin? When you get a machine that is new to you, especially one this old, and it doesn't work it is a very good idea to go over it looking at all the connections, disconnect the connections on boards and wiring cables, look for rusted or tarnished metal contacts to the connectors. This also will help you to get familiar with the machine. If you are going to do your own repair work you want to know the machine as best you can.
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The machine has worked. I acquired it a couple years ago, an after a bit of tinkering and work, got it up and running. Since then, it had a bit of downtime, and no longer functions. I have reset all of the connections, and removable chips. It will not take a coin, and displays a 71.000 on the pay line. I started checking voltages on the door, and there is no power to the coin comparator or to the tilt, coin accepted, coin inserted or 25 cents lights. All of het fuses are good. I am not sure what else to check.
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Below are the drawings for one of the power supply boards Bally used on the E-1000 and E-2000 machines, maybe it is the power supply you have. This may be handy for you to figure out if your power supply is working or not.
The power supply gets 9.5 vac from someplace, probably a secondary winding on the main power transformer. The 9.5 vac connects to two separate full wave bridge rectifiers circuits on the power supply board. The one on the left in the schematic drawing (CR1-4) makes what they call the Zero Crossing signal (ZC) and it is used on the mpu board for the Low Voltage detection circuit and other stuff. There is no filter cap on the output of this FW bridge rectifier circuit so its output will be a series of positive pulses.
The other FW bridge rectifier circuit (BR1) makes approx 10 vdc, has a very large filter cap C1 that helps to do this. This 10 vdc goes off the power supply board as the voltage V+ for use in the machine. This is unregulated 10 vdc, so I wouldn't expect it to measure exactly 10 vdc. On the parts layout of the board the test point for this voltage is called "UR", meaning UnRegulated voltage. Bally calls this voltage the unregulated 9.5 vdc on some of the other drawings, so that is probably what will be measured there with the machine operating and the power supply under load.
The BR1 10 vdc output also goes to Q1 which is the 3 terminal 5 volt regulator, this creates the 5 vdc that is used by most of the ic's on the mpu and other circuit boards in the machine. The output of Q1 also has a filter capacitor C2 to help make the 5 vdc smooth, reduce ripple or fluctuations. The is regulated 5 vdc, so it should always measure close to 5.0 vdc, maybe a few tenths of a volt either way.
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The machine has worked. I acquired it a couple years ago, an after a bit of tinkering and work, got it up and running. Since then, it had a bit of downtime, and no longer functions. I have reset all of the connections, and removable chips. It will not take a coin, and displays a 71.000 on the pay line. I started checking voltages on the door, and there is no power to the coin comparator or to the tilt, coin accepted, coin inserted or 25 cents lights. All of het fuses are good. I am not sure what else to check.
The 71.000 is an error code that relates to the number 1 reel. According to what I read the number 1 reel position reader circuit did not get a consistent position reading from the reel, things are jumpy or flaky with the conections. Does this machine have a small circuit board near each reel that reads the position of the reel? If so maybe check the connections on the #1 reel reader board.
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The machine has worked. I acquired it a couple years ago, an after a bit of tinkering and work, got it up and running. Since then, it had a bit of downtime, and no longer functions. I have reset all of the connections, and removable chips. It will not take a coin, and displays a 71.000 on the pay line. I started checking voltages on the door, and there is no power to the coin comparator or to the tilt, coin accepted, coin inserted or 25 cents lights. All of het fuses are good. I am not sure what else to check.
I think a lot of the lights in the machine uses 7.5 vac, so be sure your meter is set to AC and not DC. The main power transformer has several secondary windings, one of them makes the 7.5 vac. Another one makes the 50 vac used by the many solenoid and relay coils. There are some DC voltages but there are also many AC voltages in your machine.
Can you post a photo of your coin comparitor? I'm trying to find out what voltage it uses. Don't be surprised if it gets powered by the 50 vac power, I think there is a dropping resistor mounted on the door near the coin comparitor where the 50 vac goes to the coin comparitor.
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71.000 and 50.000 mean the exact same thing - door opened. the 71/50 difference is NJ setting on the IO board.
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Door open code, then it should be ready to coin up.
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Nope.
Same code with and without the door open. And will not accept a coin. Also, the door switch does work.
No 7.5 volts to the door to power the comparator, coin lights, or tilt light. Will start tracing wires tomorrow before I order a new power supply.
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Check for broken wires in the wire harness where it goes from the cabinet to the door. And check that harness at the door where the white molex connector is near the hinge. You may also have a bad connector inside the molex connector at the power supply. You will need to check the wires coming out of the PS. PS may have sufficient voltages but bad connection to the wires.if you change the PS it would be wise to change that molex on the PS also. PS and there molex connectors are VERY common problem with most slots.
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I traced wires from the door and all panel throughout the machine. What a PIA. Lots of unused, spare, and clipped wires. If I had the cahones, I would pull out all of the unused wires. It would be a much cleaner machine. When working through things, I found a toggle switch inside the cabinet, above the handle mechanism. Took a bit a searching, but figured out that the toggle controls power to the coin comparator. Put everything back together, flipped the switch, and I still have the 71-door open, but the machine will take a coin now. BUT, after the pull, the handle will not release back, and the wheels do not stop.
Ideas??????
Second. I found a loose wire that goes to the I/O board and is labeled as "Handle Micro Switch". Is this used for the E-2000? If so, where might I find this micro-switch?
Seems like I'm getting closer.
Please share your thoughts.
Greg
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Update!
After figuring out the phantom coin comparator switch, and disassembling, cleaning and greasing up the air brake (dashpot), we're up and running again. The rubber stopper inside the dashpot was a blob of goo. The door and pay board lights (incandescent, not fluorescent) are still not working. May still need a new power supply. Thoughts?
Greg
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Regards to the mechanical, have you cleaned and lubed the reel assembly linkage? The larger black cross shaft and thesmaller black cross shaft have to spin freely in order to avoid reel error codes.
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There is a undocumented problem with the 2000 MPU boards that I have discovered over the years I have been fixing them.
It has to do with diode CR7 and related components.
The reset line to the CPU on the board is constantly pulsing.
This is related to either a weak power supply, a bad CR7, or machine wiring due to age.
I think the CR7 circuit was designed to detect a weak power supply capacitor and reset the MPU if there is excessive AC ripple.
To bypass this annoying circuit remove R40 and jumper pin 13 of IC U21 to pin 5.
The small amount or ripple due to a older power supply is filtered by the regulators anyways.
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Nice tip!! :applause: :1:
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There is a undocumented problem with the 2000 MPU boards that I have discovered over the years I have been fixing them.
It has to do with diode CR7 and related components.
The reset line to the CPU on the board is constantly pulsing.
This is related to either a weak power supply, a bad CR7, or machine wiring due to age.
I think the CR7 circuit was designed to detect a weak power supply capacitor and reset the MPU if there is excessive AC ripple.
To bypass this annoying circuit remove R40 and jumper pin 13 of IC U21 to pin 5.
The small amount or ripple due to a older power supply is filtered by the regulators anyways.
The idea of removing a resistor and soldering a jumper onto a chip kind of concerns me. Especially if the machine is functioning again. I would like it to operate as originally built (with all lights), but I do not want to create a boat anchor. A couple questions:
1. Do you think a new power supply would sole the problem?
2. What would you say is the difficulty level of the fix you suggested? I am handy, but never did electronics unsoldering and soldering?
3. Would the fix affect any of the ether systems?
Thanks again for the input,
Greg
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Just remember, with all this checking you are doing, dont remove the reel assembly, hopper or basically anything else while the power is on.
Dave F
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The fix would not affect any other systems. It is only recommended if the power supply or wiring is causing the problem.
Might I suggest you send all of the boards in the machine to a shop, like ours, to have them all tested and repaired, if necessary, so if you still have a problem when you get them back you know it is in the wiring and not the electronics.
Call Larry at K-lar 702-363-9998
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Here is the redesigned power supply that will fix the power issues.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172411079129 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/172411079129)
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The fix would not affect any other systems. It is only recommended if the power supply or wiring is causing the problem.
Might I suggest you send all of the boards in the machine to a shop, like ours, to have them all tested and repaired, if necessary, so if you still have a problem when you get them back you know it is in the wiring and not the electronics.
Call Larry at K-lar 702-363-9998
Thanks for the input. All of the boards were checked by Dhellis a while back, and they came back OK. I've checked the wiring continuity throughout (not that I couldn't miss something given the number of wires in the machine). Is it possible that the power supply has been deteriorating along the way, and not no long will support the incandescent lights?
Thoughts?
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The power supply does not provide power to the lamps.
The lamps are powered by 6.3VAC from the transformer and turned on with triacs.
It could be you have a bad 6.3VAC fuse or holder or it is further back in your wiring and connectors.
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Is the 6.3 volt circuit AC or DC. I will start at the transformer and move towards the lights.
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AC
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I'm thinking, given my limited knowledge, that it might be the transformer. I pulled the hopper out to access the transformer, found the outlet plug from the transformer, and checked the voltages per the following illustration. I am getting 0vac in all locations. Am I checking it in the correct manner? Where can I check the input (I would assume it should be two wires at 120vac)?
UPDATE!!!!!!
I do not know what I did, but I put everything back together, and now all the lights are working, and the machine is fully functional. Obviously a loose connection somewhere. This would be a lot easier if I actually knew what I was doing, but a lot harder if all of you who offered help and suggestions were not as patient as you are.
Thanks to all of you, and I hope you guys have a great Christmas!!!!!!
Greg