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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: Bally Bill on August 25, 2016, 08:20:40 PM
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Hello Everyone, I "am new to the world of EM slots and I have become hooked on learning everything about the inner workings of these cool machines. I bought my first EM 742A 298 in May 2016 and then another 742A-1G in July. The first one is completely original from the Silver Nugget casino (8/25/69) and works and pays perfectly. The 742A 1G was a local Ebay purchase but the original reel glass was broken and replaced with a different one. I "am trying to figure out if the replacement glass is from a half dollar or dollar machine? Thank you
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Welcome Bally Bill:
The Bally EM addiction can be enjoyable, strong, and expensive. You have been warned. lol. There is significant flash glare in your pictures however I dont see a way to distinguish the denomination of the reel glass since only coin count is noted. IMHO it could work for any game with the same pay table.
Ra
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Lol RiseLikeRa and Thank you for the welcome and warning! I have attached the picture of the correct reel glass that corresponds to the payout on this 742a-1g which includes the Mystery payouts of Orange/Watermelon/Orange, Orange/Watermelon/Watermelon, O/O/Watermelon, and Orange/Watermelon/Bar. The Payout should be 14 and 10 and not 11 and 13. 2nd picture is the .05 Star Special and Money Honey side by side. I have been searching for months for this glass and hoping one day it pops up on e-bay, craigslist or maybe on NLG.
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Welcome Bill,
Nice looking machines!
Could it be a coin is hanging in the hopper just past the pivot roller.
This would give you a plus or minus 1 coin count.
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Thanks DavidLee, At first I thought that was the issue but I cleaned the Payout counter plate disc, payout relay, reset pawl switches, lightly oiled the ratchet gear, coin pivot arm and roller and its works smoothly. The payout plate disc has the correct denominations of 2,5,10,14,18 so I knew the payout was correct but was curious what slot machine had the 11 and 13 payout reel. I 'am going to look at another Money Honey slot machine for sale tomorrow and hope its in good shape....
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Great, easy fix. Now you have machines that you can compare when buying more.
The coin lock out coil behind the coin mechanism is one thing to look for when buying.
I've came across a few that were missing or not working. The machine still runs without it.
Check it out on one of your machines as to make yourself aware of its function.
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yes it nice to have the mechanical and electrically stepped hoppers as reference, I would assume I would have to remove the coin mechanism to see the coil or can I look or tug at the wires?
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Bill,
Here are some photos of the glass I made. These were simple in regards to the artwork design.
The glass with fruit, bells and bars would be to much to duplicate. If you find the right glass with wrong coin denomination, it is fairly easy to change. Most old glass seems to have had the coin amount changed. This is how the surrounding area gets damaged.
I have a video on YouTube of the machine I changed the glass on. Gambel007 should get up to the site.
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Hi Bill,
Welcome to NLG site.
There's no cure for the bug that bit you, be warned.
Nice looking machines.
Try "squiresandcorrie.com" for 742 glass. He has more than what he has posted on site. Not cheap though. Welcome aboard,
Jim
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Hi Jim, Thank you for the welcome and slot bite warnings also!! The reason I purchased my first slot was because my 80 year old Mother-in law who lives with us but is too fail to take her to the casinos, so by chance I was talking about this with one of my coworkers and he mentioned that his parents had a old slot machine and were thinking of selling so I bought the machine and gave it to my Mother in law as a Surprise birthday gift. Once I started learning about the required service via the Bally Service manual I was hooked/Bitten. The 2nd slot was by accident because I thought I would be out bid on e-bay but I ended up winning which was a good thing because I don't have to wait for my mother in law to finish. We play 7 days a week for 30 mins and she is having so much fun AND now she's learning how these machines work which is pretty cool for me. I sent an e-mail to squiresandcorri to inquire about the glass so I hope they can help. Best Regards
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Looks good and Nice work on the glass David! With me being a Slot Newbie this glass reproduction might be too much to soon to tackle. If or when I find the glass it appears that its going to take some time to swap out the glass. Thanks again for the YouTube lead!
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Does your Money Honey have two tone side panels? ( Brown and White)
If so, that would make it a 110 Volt machine and the very first of the Bally line for the EM machines. After that they went to the 50 Volt coil system because all the tech were getting a heavy jolt during a repair ... plus it is more in line with the pinball machines they were making. This is only from what I have learned here. I have over 20 Bally machines in my collection but not one of the 110 Volt machines.
Dave F
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Hi FM,no its not a white sides version BUT I do know a guy named Tom Baker from California Antique Slots.com who knows the family doctor of the Bally family that has the original W/Sides but he wanted 2-G s for that slot machine and that's was too much for me to spend. Looking back now maybe it was a mistake to pass that one up..my wife would have killed me!! Hell shes not a big fan of the 2 slots I have now!!
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I can understand that my friend ... but, somewhere in you travels, you might just come across one of these and if the time is right, it will be an affordable price. But there are not that many on the market.... so it will need to be what I call a "Barn Find" a hidden gem. it will take work but stay hopeful and you will eventually find one, if it is important to you.
Dave F
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Hi Dave,I can see why you have so many slot machines, they are built to last and there are so many cool graphics and versions to collect. My two 1 line slots seem simple compared to the 3 line 1-5 five coin machines that are more complicated and are rebuilt from the ground up by the NLG members which to me is impressive.There is some much to learn about these machines and that's what keeps me interested in this new hobby.
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Greetings Bill. Yes the Bally bug has bitten many of us. I have 6 of them and my wife feels the same as does yours. However, it is a good and fascinating hobby, better than sitting home in front of the boob-tube.
By the way, I live in Walnut, and if you want to meet to talk "shop" let me know.
Richard
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Hi Daniel, I see a trend in the wives hate in slots machines,my guess is that its taking time away from giving them 100% of your attention. Possible 3rd slot in the works but if I do pull the trigger she wont find out until its sitting in my game room...yes it would be nice to gather up all the Local NLG EM slot addicts and maybe meet at a centralized location for lunch or dinner at a restaurant?
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Once it is sitting in your game room will you then hear the complaints? My wife just thinks they make too much noise and take up too much room in the one room which I also use for a computer and nothing much else.
It would be nice to get a group of us Bally guys together, however, I do not know too many local collectors so it might be a small gathering, but that is OK too.
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Unless your wife is into Slots, Wife+Slot Machine=0 machines at home.
I try to make a day trip together when looking to buy a machine. Usually visit friends along the way.
This seems to work on the buying side, but still have all my machines at the shop.
My wife wants a smaller machine and something cute that matches the decor.
I'm up for anyone interested in the Bally EMs to stop by my location when in the area of Simi Valley.
Just need a day or so notice beforehand.
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Not all white star cabinets or 120 volt they made a lot of 742a with white star cabinets in 1964 and 1965 I personally have three of them the one that is in my game room right now isn't all original $0.10 white side cabinet it is a 742A
The really early ones hov the ID tag on the back not on the side they are fairly rare I have only person we seem to 120 volt machines one in Placerville California and I think the gentleman that had it passed away and one at the Museum in Las Vegas I have heard stories of other people having them but never seen a picture never had any proof
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Its funny when we have friends over anybody loves to play the slot machines and the wife loves the compliments and laughs. I have them in our spare room so its not like they are in the living room or bedroom...women can be fickle at times but I love her. I live in Lake Forest area in Orange county and travel to the CAF Museum in Camarillo to fix Warbirds 3 times a month so I 'am game on gathering a small group to meet centrally to eat,drink and talk slots. Anybody interested can PM me so we can set something up in the future. I finally got pictures of my possible new Money Honey machine and will be going to check out next Saturday. The seller says everything works except the payout light card on top has no wires and he not sure if the wires are in the machine and the middle reel sometimes stick and just spins but not all the time? I would like your FEEDBACK on the value and maybe a check list? Here is my newbie list below.
Bring Money, Check Power cord, Turn on machine and make sure everything lights up, Drop in coin to see if coin accept light goes on and handle releases,Watch timing on reels from left to right and listen for reel arm to snap in place, test payouts to see if they match reel glass and winner paid light comes on and listen to hopper and winner bell operation, make sure winner paid light goes out on next spin(zero switch resets hopper to zero) Pull reel assembly and check wires, Beua plugs and condition of wiper board contacts/fingers, check for broken springs and bent connecting rods/dry grease, Pull hopper and check B-Plugs, zero switch, Payout wiper board and fingers, resets back to zero (10 step method from Bally book) check Roller and knife and all wires to coils and contacts to look for burn marks...long list sorry guys!
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That machine looks very clean, and the marquis is intact which can be hard to find. I might suggest you also consider multi-coin machines. They break the monotony of one coin in and pull handle.
I understand perfectly about wives and machines in that spare room. That is where I have my slots, (and one in the garage) yet there is still that resentment. Whats a husband to do?
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Billy,
I don't think this is the machine that has or had been on Craigslist for a long time.
Your check list is complete, can't think of anything else at the moment.
Oh, one of my machines, if its not been ran in awhile it takes some playing before the coin accepted
light works and the winner paid to reset. Just laziness on my part, needs a little monthly maintenance.
The machine looks to be in great shape. I was surprised to see both tray lights working.
Don't think I've bought a machine with the coin tray lights working and or the bulb sockets are missing.
I've seen these machines come up occasionally, but they go fast.
Hope you get it for the right price.
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Hi David, Yes outside looks pretty good with signs of chrome tarnish and the inside looks clean but I have to look at the guts. I don"t like the fact about the reel is sticking and the top payout card doesn't seem to match the reel glass, almost looks like the lite is not part of the machine..I "am searching the web for pictures to compare
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Hi Jon, Interesting information on the 742a white sides, if you get a chance please post some pictures so I can check out your slot children!
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Were the 742's made in cabinets with and w/o upper units? Seeing 742's that are in cabinets like the 809.
jim
Jim
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Hi Jim, I did not get a picture of the data plate but I do know they made Money Honey Kits in the late 70"s and this slot could be one of those conversions of a 809. I only found one reference picture on the web but it does not have any information.
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Right now it's sitting in the game room the Marquee it's still in a box somewhere as I have recently moved to Michigan from Northern California when I get done I will post you more pictures that is a beautiful machine you're looking at do not pay too much it is a kit machine yes you can tell because the door glass does not say Bally's and they never made a money honey in an option case R Daniel I still have not found the boxes of candle lights
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Nice Slot Machine Jon! It has the correct reel glass that is missing from my 742A 1-G. A big move from N Cal to Michigan but I bet you get a lot of house and property for your money in that state. Yes please post more slot pictures when you get settled in and maybe throw in a few of your new home...have a cousin who lives in Kalamazoo and he's got a lot of land surrounding his home.Regarding price on this M/Honey Kit slot what would be a fair offer? Guy is asking 6-700 bills which includes a extra reel glass that I have not seen yet. Best Regards
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The only issue I see is that the marquee on top states that three watermelons pays 50 while the payout glass states it pays 100.
Let me know
Dave F
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Yes Dave I notice that also, maybe he has a different marquee that he thinks is a reel glass?, what do you think its worth?
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I would first, set the machine up to pay the melons and see actually what it pays. Then you can determine what you need to look for. I am thinking that you can get a basic glass that will show the bars and not the melons. That way the only description of the melon payout is the plexi marquee on the top. But you need to see what the payout is.
Dave F
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The price is whatever the market will bear down I don't think I'd go over 400 450 on it unless it's working perfect and not much over that no way when I go 6 for a custom-built machine with a kit
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I agree if it was a real Money Honey with the matching data plate $600 would seem fair,my plan was to offer $500 and then swap out the reel glass into my 742 1-G M/Honey and resale the unit down the line but that wont work either because the payout is wrong on this glass. Still going to see this machine on Saturday and make an offer.Thank you again for your honest feedback
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AFAIK all 742s were low-boys. Check to see if top unit is an add on. People who did conversions often put all new Formica on outside.
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Hi Old Reno, That information makes sense based on all the pictures I have seen and read on NLG, I will add that top unit inspection to my check list-Thank you!
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It may be that someone took an 809 or other cabinet and stuffed the money honey reels and glass into it. That's my guess. Look to see how much wiring goes to top unit...if it has a large beau plug then it's probably a retrofit.
Not that it's a bad machine (all ballys are good) but if seller claims it is original 742 then you might suggest you doubt that.
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Ok I will check that out, and yes I like the look of this Bally machine also but only if the price is right. Thanks again
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I ended up buying this machine with the extra reel glass and it was working great until last night....hopper not resetting (winner light on) and now no power to coin lockout or coin micro switch. Fuse are good,dashpot switch is closed,hopper resets to zero, Zero switch is closed,can the reel A or B switch be another issue?
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It goes through the real machine b switch that is the horizontal mounted switch on the left side the real machine
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Another low tech test. Play the machine mechanically by holding the handle release stop back.
Then pull the handle, sometimes this resets the machine if for some reason it didn't complete the previous cycle. I do this on my own machines, but use your own judgement on your machine as the machine is in a state of limbo.
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yes I cycled the reels and have full contact on the B switch (closed) as it travels along the ramp but still no power to the coin lockout, seems like the hopper is the problem because the winner paid light tends to go dim and then come back. I read Old Reno's post on the coin lockout and maybe it could be coin relay switch is staying open? I have my VOM set to ohms but I dont see any reading when I put the negative lead to the case and the positive lead to the lockout coil wires behind the coin mechanism. I checked all the Beua plug connection wires on hopper and they seem to be OK...was working great for 2 days so I must be over looking something simple
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I probably would not check any circuit to the case. Until reading O'Renos "checking for shorts". Recheck fuses.
There are 5 switches I would check are closed when cycle is over, since this is a single coin slot. To energize coin lockout coil.
Coin relay swt 31 / 25 wires.
Dashpot swt 25 /57 wires.
Payout relay swt 57 / 60 wires, hopper.
C1 swt 60 / 91 wires.
"A" swt 91 / 74 wires.
Jim
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ok let me back track to the Old Reno blogs and confirm the 5 switches are cycled closed- Thank you Jim
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Please remember these are all separate circuits here. The coin lockout coil is separate from the hopper reset circuit. They are independent. For example, the winner paid lite is a 6v line and it is turned off when the 50v hopper reset coil physically moves a pawl that patches open the winner paid lite circuit. They are only related physically not electrically. Your hopper reset only goes through the 'B' switch and the hopper zero switch. You have multiple problems. Fix one first then go to the next.
Your winner paid lite dimming indicates something is momentarily shorting to case probably Or that your hopper reset coil is fried. Also lights can dim momentarily if your large spring attached to the clock variator touches to the stack of C switches when reels are indexing. Push back on your variator and look in to see if the spring is touching any switches. The coin lockout coil not working is probably a different problem.
Keep at it and keep us posted.
You can try jumpering your hopper reset coil to verify it works.
Good job so far!
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Bill,
Prior to the machine malfunction did you have a component out for cleaning?
Regarding the dimming bulbs. The sockets in these machines over time get a little corroded.
Causing the lights to be dim and or flicker on and off.
To achieve a better connection add a thin puddle of solder to the side of the brass casing.
Also solder can be added to the the bottom foot contact.
Solder is easily filed if the fit becomes to tight.
Did this awhile back on the dimmer bulbs in a machine and it improved the brightness to 100%
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Also it helps to briskly rub the base of your bulb on your Levi's
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Ok I started over and checked the 5 switches AND the fuses again per Jims reply and found that the 3amp/50 volt was shot. I replaced the fuse and the machine is taking coins but the payouts are off by 1 and the winner light goes off then back on right after the 3rd reel kicks in?...going to start over and recheck the payout board reset relay and Zero switch. Light bulb is trying to light up so maybe this needs to get some solder to correct....sorry for the late reply's had to stay late and get the CAF warbirds ready for Reno Air races next week. Thanks for all the help so far guys!!
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Good job so far. You might want to adjust your 'B' switch so that it stays closed a little bit longer. This will ensure that the hopper reset solenoid has enough time to fully fire and latch out the linkage. That should allow your winner paid light to turn off.
Ps please tell those guys not to buzz our house during the races...?
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Good work.
Early post you said that you checked both sides of the lock out coil to the case. That is a direct short if live and will pop fuse if its not blown already.
Keep at it.
Jim
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thanks for the support! I adjust the scrambler arm to it longest length and and hold the fan and watch the travel on the ramp? after I adjust the B switch do I have to reset the zero switch also? CAF is flying in 4 warbirds for static display only-no racing..who doesn't like the sound of a 2000 HP Pratt & Whitney R-2800 two-row radial engine? better than the Blue Angel jets this year!
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Favorite has always been the Corsair. Finally got to see and hear one up close, outside Chicago a couple years ago. We were close ( 50 ft. ) by as it taxi'd and throttle up to take off. Wow. Lots of power.
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By the way, that is one clean machine.
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Working on hopper now and it seems to step correctly and returns without any shutter. Reset Zero Switch AND added this cut piece of plastic tubing to keep the contact closed (Old Reno posted Zero Switch can stay closed all the time) Payouts are correct now and I hope it sticks, Payout lite is still on but I can see why this happens by watching the B-Switch during the play cycle. Fixed the 2 bulbs-1 with solder and the other with my Levis pants! ok now to get that B switch to work...Jim my favorite Warbirds are the Grumman Hellcat, Bearcat and the P51 Mustang...Corsair is a large warbird up close and they have raced them at Reno and won in the past!
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Around town transportation.
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I thought I saw your ride at the airshow...
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I adjusted the B switch link and stud assembly via the Ratchet to the shortest and longest throw with no success BUT as I play more the winner light goes off and stays off until the next win and then stays on for about 10-15 pulls and the light goes out again...sticky contact on B switch or payout relay?
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Contacts may need to be cleaned or adjusted. Have a couple of machines that take about 15 minutes to warm up. Coin accepted light won't light and win meter doesn't reset, but after playing for awhile things start to work properly. Working on the 785 it wouldn't pay every time. Just gave the reels a little movement and hopper would start running. Indicating wipers need to be cleaned.
Bill you might of seen me riding to Venture on the back roads past the Airport.
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Yes I have cleaned all the contacts on all the switches via Plain printer paper and solvent, used this item to clean the wiper and payout boards...let me keep on playing and see what happens...Come to the CAF museum next time your on those back roads around the airport and I will give you a warbird tour!
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Two switches on hopper for 742 for winner paid lite. Clean both and check for continuity across switches. Pawl switch, 30 / 91 wires and payout relay switch with 91 / 48 wires. Thats all for winner paid lite circuit.
I am thinking 48 wire leaves hopper through beau plug so clean its male beau plug. To find connect one lead from meter to 48 wire at payout relay switch and check each male plug on hopper.
Unplug while checking.
Jim
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ok let me try that one-Thank you Jim!
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Reread post, winner paid stays lit. Beau plug probably good.
When slot has finished a play cycle (no win) and ready to be coined the pawl switch should be open so circuit is not complete to common 30. Pawl switch should be open, no continuity across it. 91 / 30 wires.
Payout relay switch is closed when ready to be coined, 48 / 91 wires.
Sorry.
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when I cycle the machine, the Hopper reset coil engages and the step-up arm goes down while the reels spin, as soon as the last reel locks the reset coil pulls the ratchet arm away from the gear and light pops on. I 'am also seeing a slight green spark coming off the B switch when it comes off the ramp.
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The zero stop switch is not opening clean it ajust it it should cure your problem
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Just a note about closing your zero switch with plastic-- it is ok for troubleshooting purposes, but with it being closed like that it means every time you pull the handle your hopper will reset--even if it does not need to. You will eventually wear out your reset and linkages probably. Remember after you get all your problems fixed to go back and adjust your zero switch so that it works like it is supposed to.
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Just a quick note on hopper reset circuit. 2 switches control the hopper reset solenoid. They are the zero sw and the B sw. The B sw closes momentarily on every handle pull and reel spin. The zero sw closes only when the payboard wiper fingers step one step.
The B sw says ok hopper if you need to reset here's some voltage for you whether you need it or not. The zero sw says thanks but I will only use your voltage when I need it (which is only when machine paid on last game and the zero is closed.
The winner paid lite is a completely different circuit which runs on 6v only.
(Just to add to the confusion)
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Thank you for clarifying the functions of both switches Old Reno, let me start over and reset and adjust the B and zero switch's...appreciate everyone's patience!
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Hi All, Back from a long vacation and started the entire switch/hopper process over and it looks like the winner light problem is cured! But now I have the #2 reel that fails to kick-off every 10-12th pull? I plan on taking out the reel assembly and degrease all of the linkage and check the handle assembly because it seems the handle pulls affect the way the #2 reel kicks off differently. Thanks again for everyone's input!