New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => WMS Reel Games => Topic started by: Mk1Mod0 on November 10, 2014, 02:16:19 PM
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Looking to see how deep the rabbit hole is on these things. From what I can deduce so far, parts are few and far between. Only one of them is complete and I am looking for base information. (Manual, troubleshooting tips, schematics, etc.) Info on anything WMS seems sketchy at best. The only good news is that I happen to have a good supply of 555 bulbs and TIP102s already. I have spent enough time under the hood of lots of EM and S/S games to get the basics down, but slots are new to me. Can't be that different, right? :duh: Any and all help is greatly appreciated! (Games are Jackpot Party, Stampede Deluxe and Perfect Match.)
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The Dotmations are pretty much computers with stepper motors and displays, so other than tracing wires, your EM experience is not going to serve you all that well. Does the "complete one" function? If it does, it is a good place to start as you can then harness that to get the other ones working and to see which parts you need. You CAN find parts for them if you look well enough, but some of the parts are going to pricey (like the plasma display). I believe there's a full set of schematics in the download area, but you have to be a contributing member to get those.
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I had 20+ of these machines and just sold the final 9 to another member who is picking me up in a week or two. I may be able to help u out with some questions n I will ask the client if he plans on selling any parts. All of the machines are Winning Streaks, X Factors, and Jackpot Party machines, FYI. Let me know what parts you need n see if we can help you out.
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Hi Mk1mod0,
I purchased 9 dotmation WMS games from Tmmybahama.
I'll be picking the games up this Monday in Salt Lake City UT then driving to Seattle WA area with them.
If your on the way I'd be happy to stop by your place and help you with parts, or I can pull the parts out and ship them to you when I get home.
Those are really fun machines, I know you'll enjoy them if ya get them running.
There are a couple mods like installing computer power supplies in them that makes the machines pretty dependable too, and it's an easy job!
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I'm in Corpus Christi, TX, so not on the way. Thanks to everyone for quick replies. Right now I am just trying to figure out what may or may not be missing. I have read about transitioning them to an ATX power supply and will definitely do that.
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If you find out what you need just let me know.
I'll be parting out at least 3 of the games to get some of mine running, everything I don't need can be sold of pretty reasonably.
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The only thing I know for certain at this point is that 2 of the 3 have neither of the two cards in the box holder of the lower section. I do have 1 set of cards with the Jackpot Party game chips. Missing one reel and the upper glass from the Perfect Match. And for some reason, all of the hopper discs have gameroom tokens glued to them. Go figure. Missing two coin outer hoppers and whatever holds all of the coins inside. I would hope those are universal to WMS machines and not specific to these models. Yeah, I'm a wishful thinker.
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The only thing I know for certain at this point is that 2 of the 3 have neither of the two cards in the box holder of the lower section. I do have 1 set of cards with the Jackpot Party game chips. Missing one reel and the upper glass from the Perfect Match. And for some reason, all of the hopper discs have gameroom tokens glued to them. Go figure. Missing two coin outer hoppers and whatever holds all of the coins inside. I would hope those are universal to WMS machines and not specific to these models. Yeah, I'm a wishful thinker.
Welcome to the Williams dotmation world. Though perhaps not as plentiful or popular as IGT slots they are indeed fun machines and there are several people here familiar with them. Other than power supplies they are pretty dependable. I've attached the Williams manual for these machines below.
They are typically referred to as "WMS 40X" models since there were a few variations to the model number. The dotmation models are based on the previous WMS 400 models, which are a normal 3 reel slot. The dotmation feature was a way to add a bonus round for enhanced play.
There is an id plate mounted on the outside of the machine on the handle side, down near one corner, it will give the actual model number of the machine. The built in diagnostics and setup routines are good for adjusting personal preferences like volume sound, testing all of the machine lamps and digital displays, etc. The manual covers all of it, plus has part numbers for the major assemblies and hardware. The bill validator used in the machine was typically a JCM DBV-145 and DBV-200, but that can be upgraded to newer compatible models I believe. The usual bill validator comm protocol is ID-044 but there are variations to that.
The 2 circuit cards in the card cage are the CPU board and the I/O board. These boards are available but often the CPU is harder to find. The game software for a particular game is contained in eproms that plug into the CPU board, along with the corresponding game sound eproms. There is a companion pair of eproms for the particular game that plug into the dotmation controller board that is located behind the dot matrix screen in the upper part of the machine. The dot matrix screen is mounted to a metal box, inside the box is a +12vdc power supply board and the dotmation controller board. The main power supply for the machine is a large gray box mounted to the inside of the left wall of the lower area. You'll recognize it by the large red power switch mounted on the front end toward you.
Have fun!
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Thanks for providing me a manual. That's a big help. Two of the three machines have PDUs but they both appear to be toast. Gonna have to do some ATX PSU hacking. All three of the DMDs appear to be in good condition. 1 is complete, 1 is missing the power supply board and the third is missing both boards and the backing box. Let the adventures begin.
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The power supply board inside the dot matrix box is simply a +12vdc supply, so there are many choices for a replacement. People often use an inexpensive pc computer power supply, it fits in the top cabinet and you can connect the +12vdc output and gnd wires to the cable that formerly came from the original dot matrix power supply board. That +12vdc is only used by the dotmation controller board and the dot matrix screen.
Alternatively, if you use a pc computer power supply to repair the lower power supply unit then you can run a couple of long wires from it carrying the +12vdc and gnd to the dot matrix box.
The dotmation controller card is available, I've seen them priced as low as $25, but prices on used parts can vary a lot depending on the seller. One place to try is Rudy's Deals, they often carry Williams parts. If you don't see it listed on their website you can message them on the website or call them, they often have stuff that isn't listed on the website, they part out machines that they buy at auction or wherever.
The lower power supply unit (aka the pdu) can also be repaired, there are replacement power supply boards that replace the bad board inside the pdu. Some people feel that replacing the power supply board with another similar one leads to another failure down the line since it is marginal designed power supply, that's why they suggest installing a pc power supply to provide the +5, +12 and -12 voltages. But there are newer after market replacement boards that claim to be better reliability. Each owner has to decide how he wants to handle it. If you want to replace the power supply board that's inside the lower power supply (main pdu) then different people sell these, one is an NLG user named tollguy316.
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=3812.msg19646#msg19646 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=3812.msg19646#msg19646)
The dot matrix enclosure box should be available although I've never looked for one. Since it isn't visible you could probably come up with a metal box that works made from sheet metal similar to the stuff they use for home ductwork until you locate the real enclosure. But if you ask around or post a WTB ad in the classifieds area listing all the items you want people will chime in letting you know they have one or where you might be able to get one. I would bet someone has that empty metal box left over from a parts machine. You might call or message Rudy's to see if they have one.
There's a lot of satisfaction in getting one of these oldies running. And if you get tired of it they can be sold to someone else.
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OK. I have digested the PDU schematic and found it to be a pretty simple thing to replace the transformer part with an ATX power supply. I may even have the correct size molex connector sitting in one of my pin part bins. (I throw away nothing!) I can also use it to power up the DMD up top. I really don't see the point in getting the same prone to fail card in the PDU. I am not a purist. I often double as the sheet metal guy at work so making a new box won't be a problem. I'll just dupe one of the two I have.
And now for some questions. These machines were probably all stripped to some degree to keep others up and running. There is no cord connecting the keypad, card reader and digital readout (for error codes and such) to anything else and no loose cords in any of the machines. I assume it's not magic and there is a cord of some kind that connects them to the CPU? Also, there is nothing providing power into the 12vdc card at the DMD. There is a plug of small wires going into the DMD control card and then larger power wires from that card to the 12vdc card. Where is that power coming from? Thanks for all your help so far. I may get a bong out of one of them yet!
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Post some pics. They always seem to make troubleshooting easier. I've done the ATX power supply swap to replace the top and bottom supply. It was pretty easy.
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OK. I have digested the PDU schematic and found it to be a pretty simple thing to replace the transformer part with an ATX power supply. I may even have the correct size molex connector sitting in one of my pin part bins. (I throw away nothing!) I can also use it to power up the DMD up top. I really don't see the point in getting the same prone to fail card in the PDU. I am not a purist. I often double as the sheet metal guy at work so making a new box won't be a problem. I'll just dupe one of the two I have.
And now for some questions. These machines were probably all stripped to some degree to keep others up and running. There is no cord connecting the keypad, card reader and digital readout (for error codes and such) to anything else and no loose cords in any of the machines. I assume it's not magic and there is a cord of some kind that connects them to the CPU? Also, there is nothing providing power into the 12vdc card at the DMD. There is a plug of small wires going into the DMD control card and then larger power wires from that card to the 12vdc card. Where is that power coming from? Thanks for all your help so far. I may get a bong out of one of them yet!
It does sound like parts here & there were taken out of the machines to repair other machines. The one that is most complete can be a partial guide to what is missing in the others. When you are working in a particular area like the top box or the bottom of cabinet I or others here can send pictures of what it looks like on a complete machine to give you an idea of what should be there.
Inside the dotmation metal box in the top part of cabinet there are 2 boards and the dot matrix screen attaches to the front. The board on the right is the +12vdc power supply. It gets 115vac from a cable that runs down to the main power supply, also called the lower power supply. There are 2 rows of connectors on the side of the lower power supply, the bottom row of connectors are all identical, they contain 115vac. Several cables connect here to this bottom row of 6 position connectors for the fluorescent lighting inside the machine and for power to the dotmation box in the upper part of machine. You can plug any of the 115vac cables into any of these bottom row connectors since they are all the same.
Keep in mind that the lower power supply contains 2 boards. One is the power supply board that makes the +12, -12 and 5vdc voltages. It is the board that often fails. But there is another board in there that is part of the power distribution and it also makes the +18vdc and the +5vi voltages. So when you add a new pc computer power supply it does not replace the lower power supply, it supplements it. As far as I know you have to leave the lower power supply unit in the machine, disconnect a couple of cables inside that go to the bad power supply board and then connect the additional wires from the pc computer power supply to bring in the +5, +12 and -12 vdc.
On the old NLG website that is being kept as an archive there is a lot of good info on repairing the dotmation machines. Here are some links to get you started:
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0)
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=346.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=346.0)
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=27195.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=27195.0)
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=805.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=805.0)
And here are some pictures that might be helpful:
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more pictures
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And now for some questions. These machines were probably all stripped to some degree to keep others up and running. There is no cord connecting the keypad, card reader and digital readout (for error codes and such) to anything else and no loose cords in any of the machines. I assume it's not magic and there is a cord of some kind that connects them to the CPU? ...
This part of your question about the keypad and digital readout sounds like you are maybe referring to a player tracking panel located just above the door where you insert a player card. Most home machines don't use this panel, many don't even have it installed, there is a blank panel in its place. The missing cable and wiring probably connected back to a small comm board that was removed. The panel itself was probably left in place so there wouldn't be an empty space and spoil the appearance of the machine.
All of the wiring to that panel and the associated comm board can be removed. Not many people try to get that panel functioning for a home machine, it is just to track a persons play in the casino and connect back to the casino server. It wouldn't serve any purpose for the home user. But a picture of this area would help us to know for sure, just in case I am off in left field on my thinking.
As others have suggested, if you can post a few pictures of the machine, outside views and inside views, we can more easily spot things to tell you about. Otherwise we are just guessing and something could get overlooked that could cause a delay or wasted time for you later.
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Hello.
I have a beautiful, clean, immaculate "Jackpot Limbo" dotmation game that I am willingto sell cheap. It has a working BV, and coin in/out system. Takes bills and quarters.
I am in Dallas if you want to come get it..............
$500 takes it.
Steve
Steve
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Third attempt...
Thanks, Steve, but where would be the fun in buying a working machine? I appreciate the kind offer.
Here is a pic of the panel I am referring to.
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Am troubleshooting the first power supply. When plugged in, I get power to where indicated but nowhere else.
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Here is a pic of the panel I am referring to.
Yes, that's a players club tracking panel. [doesn't look like it came from the Venetian or Bellagio. :) These machines got passed around from one casino to another as they saw their casino life ending, often at smaller & less prosperous places so the in-house IT operation that made that tracking panel didn't have the resources of a Vegas strip property. But no doubt it served the same purpose & worked fine for them]
It would have been connected by cables & wires to a casino network comm board, usually inside the upper cabinet behind the dot matrix box. But the comm board may have been removed by the casino already since it could be reused on another machine when they got rid of this machine. Or a previous owner may have removed it. This player tracking panel doesn't have anything to do with the operation of the machine so it's ok if it isn't working or connected to anything. Most people disconnect and remove all the cables & wires going to the tracking panel, or tie them up in a neat little bundle out of the way.
It won't hurt anything to leave the tracking panel installed in the machine for appearance reasons so you won't have an empty space, or you can get a blanking panel to install there, different places sell them, some people make their own. The panel usually has some sort of channel or bracket to support the upper game artwork glass piece since it rests on the top edge of the panel. Williams made the machine cabinet with a space there for casinos to either install a blanking panel or a tracking panel.
Below are some dotmation machines showing the different ways of doing the blanking panel or tracking panel. Sometimes the panel has a black rubbery material glued to it, I've also seen a mirror glass piece glued there. You could remove the pushbuttons and digital readout from your panel and then cover it with something so it has a smooth blank finish.
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Am troubleshooting the first power supply. When plugged in, I get power to where indicated but nowhere else.
It looks like the power supply is missing.......should be attached to the 4 screws.
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Well that's OK.
I thought you might want to use it as example of how the others should be when working/complete...............
Good luck with the Dot's................they are fun, but after them, you will want to move up the ladder a bit.
Steve
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It looks like the power supply is missing.......should be attached to the 4 screws.
Correct, but the result is the same with or without it there. Either way, shouldn't I be getting 115vac at J-5, 6, 7, 8 and 9? And at the two service outlets by where the line cord plugs in? All I get is power to the service outlet next to the on/off switch which is present whether the unit is on or off. I'm just trying to follow the path from outlet to the upper power card in the PDU and am getting stuck somewhere.
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Have you checked the fuses? There are 2 on the power distribution board and 1 on the front of the gray box near the large red on/off switch. Also, the giant transformer in the bottom of the machine probably needs to be connected to the pdu to work, it is part of the 115vac input to the pdu. The giant transformer is there so that the machine can work in countries that use either 115vac or 230vac. The side of the gray box has a voltage selection switch, for USA it should be in 115vac position [ok, that probably wasn't necessary to say]. This switch connects thru the giant transformer connector so the pdu can properly work with either line voltage.
On the outside of the gray pdu box are 2 rows of connectors. The bottom row has several identical connectors that each have 6 positions. When power is connected up there should be 115vac present on each of these 6 position connectors, measured at positions 1 and 6 on the connector. Fuse F2 on the power distribution board is inline with these 115vac connectors, they provide power to the fluorescent lighting and the dot matrix box. Fuse F1 on the power distribution board is inline with circuitry on the power distribution board that creates the +18vdc and the +5vi voltage. F1=10amp, F2=3amp. I think the main fuse on the front of the pdu near the main power switch is 4 amp but I can't find my info right now.
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Checked all three fuses. They are of the correct size and good. So the big transformer gets 115 from and gives back to the PDU? Interesting... I will look into that. Thanks!
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Checked all three fuses. They are of the correct size and good. So the big transformer gets 115 from and gives back to the PDU? Interesting... I will look into that. Thanks!
Yes, that giant transformer in the bottom of the machine is part of the main 115vac power input to the pdu. It has a double primary winding and a double secondary winding, that way the same pdu will work with either 115vac or 230vac line power like in foreigh countries. The little orange slide switch on the side of the pdu makes the right connection thru the giant transformer.
Here is a drawing of the power distribution board inside the pdu, there were 2 versions of the board. The part number is written on the board somewhere but the easy way to know which one you have is to look at the molex connector on the side of the pdu where the giant transformer cable plugs in. It will be a 16 position connector on the older pdu with the -01 version of power dist board and a 12 position connector on the -03 version. This is the molex connector on the top row of connectors on the side of the pdu that is closest to where the 115vac line cord connects. It is called J10 and the giant transformer connects to it.
Another difference between the older -01 power distribution board and the -03 version is that they moved the 18vdc bridge rectifier BR1 off the -03 version board & mounted BR1 to the pdu chassis. They had to add a new internal connector called J300 to make the connections. This was probably done to keep BR1 cooler and reduce failures. Anyone swapping a -01 power distribution board for a -03 during repair should keep this mind.
Notice that J10 is a 16 position connector on one drawing, 12 position on the other. In their wisdom the Williams engineers sized all of the pdu molex connectors differently to prevent getting the cables plugged in wrong but we can also use that to identify which is which by counting the positions and looking on the drawing for the same size connector. (all of the bottom row of molex connectors are the same size since they are identical 115vac outputs)
Sorry for quality of these drawings, don't have a better one, I found these somewhere and they look like they are the 29th photocopy of an original years ago. If you want I can email you these drawings in bmp format, they might be more clear to read. NLG doesn't allow bmp attachments since the files are so much larger. But the real problem with the clarity is the orig image is poor.
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Here is a drawing of the giant power transformer, the cable from it to the pdu can have either a 16 position connector or a 12 position connector. The transformer itself is the same in both cases, only the cable is different. Both have the same signals, just that the 16 position connector had more unused positions. I guess they went to a smaller connector to save on production costs.
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Ok. Now we are getting somewhere. In an extreme stroke of my kind of luck, it seems two of the machines have the 16 position transformer plug and one has the 12. Both of my PDUs have 16 position receptacles. Guess which machine I have been trying to get going? :banghead: So after wiping the egg off my face I will swap one transformer for another and give it another whirl. Results to follow... Ah, so can I simply swap the 16 for a 12 and make it work?
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A dongle. Ha. Go figure...
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Ok. Now we are getting somewhere. In an extreme stroke of my kind of luck, it seems two of the machines have the 16 position transformer plug and one has the 12. Both of my PDUs have 16 position receptacles. Guess which machine I have been trying to get going? :banghead: So after wiping the egg off my face I will swap one transformer for another and give it another whirl. Results to follow... Ah, so can I simply swap the 16 for a 12 and make it work?
After rereading your post I think I follow what you are saying. You are working on the machine that has the 12 position transformer cable, and that is a dead end for now since both your pdu's are the 16 position style. So yes, you can swap the giant transformers around so as to have a 16 position transformer in that machine. I've never done that but don't see any reason for it not to work.
Are you working on this machine because it is in the best shape and most complete of the 3 machines?
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A dongle. Ha. Go figure...
That is the Williams 12 to 16 position transformer adapter cable. With this you shouldn't have to swap the transformers around. You're luck is improving!
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Bingo! You guys rock.
One bong and trouble codes Batt1 and Secur2. Looks like I need a 4 kbit EEPROM and a battery...
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Bingo! You guys rock.
One bong and trouble codes Batt1 and Secur2. Looks like I need a 4 kbit EEPROM and a battery...
One bong is great - I didn't hear it but feels like I heard it thru you!
Hold on & don't replace that eeprom just yet.
The batt fail is a soft fail, the game will play after the fail is cleared (by opening and then shutting the main door of the machine). But each time you power up you'll get it again until you replace the battery on the CPU board. You can get the new battery from several places, including eBay and some of the NLG vendors listed on home page, they are used in lots of devices. It looks like a fat little AA, shorter in length. I can't remember the voltage but can look it up if needed. Your old battery probably has the info written on it. The battery holder should be a plastic thingy with a snap-on cover, but yours might be different. Some folks remove the battery and add a remote AA or AAA battery holder so they can easily install batteries, like the pinball guys do on SS machines. This avoids the worry of battery leakage onto a hard to find & expensive CPU board.
The Secur2 fail code I'm not so sure about, some of the other experts here may have to help us. I think this fail code comes up if the machine has had a game software change, it is sort of an integrity check to make sure some nonsense didn't happen in the casino. Anyway, there is a security eeprom on the backplane board (mounted on the back wall of the machine behind the card cage). After a software change to the machine the cpu writes a code to the eeprom. On each powerup this is checked to see if it matches what is expected for that game software that is on the CPU board. So, if you swap in a CPU board with different game software it likely doesn't match the last code that was stored in the security eeprom, and that gives the fail code. I think it is cleared by convincing the game that you want to complete the game software change. This is done -my mind is cloudy on this- by doing a soft clear as described in the manual. Look in the section covering game change software procedures.
Another potential problem to be aware of is that the game software on these dotmation machines came in different coin denomination versions. SO if the previous game software was for nickels and that info was stored in the eeprom, and now you insert a CPU board with game software that is for quarters you have to do a hard clear. This takes a special clearing eprom (called a clear chip), it is covered in the manual. Essentially you remove one of the game software eproms on the CPU board and install the denomination clear chip. Then power up the game, the software in the clear chip formats the machine memory for that particular denomination. Then you power down and reinstall the game software eprom. This doesn't have to be done on each game software change, only if the new software is of a different coin denomination. Consequently, Williams made a clear chip for each possible coin denomination, such as 25 cent, 5 cent, etc. Kinda quirky, wish they had taken care of this in the game software itself somehow. Most people with a dotmation machine end up getting a 25 cent clear chip since it is the most popular denomination.
When you take a break from working on the machine or are waiting on parts or other downtime I think it is very worthwhile to read over the manual closely, even a couple of times. I picked up a lot by doing this, I feel Williams did a good job on the manual.
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I had that secur2 message before. It happened to me after a game change. All I did was re-seat all the chips and did a hard ram clear with a clear chip, and it got rid of it. I don't know if you have a clear chip or not, but you're gonna need one eventually. You can get one from one of the vendors advertised here on the site. Good luck. You're almost there.
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Performed soft clear and it worked. Playing it now. :dancing_2: :thank_you:
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Performed soft clear and it worked. Playing it now. :dancing_2: :thank_you:
That's terrific - now you're qualified to help others that come along later with similar problems.
The best way to test it is play as often as you can. And since you now have a working machine you can swap in parts from the other machines to check them when you aren't sure if they are good or bad.
Would be great to see a picture of the entire machine powered up. :Please_Post_Pictures_2:
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Eyeah... Gimme a day to clean and change bulbs. This thing be nasty. Or what I call most of the pinball machines I buy. "Warehouse fresh!"
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no problem, but don't worry too much, no points deducted for non-minty machine. We love pictures here, most of the time it is just words & words.......
Speaking of pinball machines, there were some folks this past week looking for a pinball machine. If you have any for sale you might contact them.
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4042.msg20889#msg20889 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4042.msg20889#msg20889)
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4042.msg20917#msg20917 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4042.msg20917#msg20917)
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4141.msg21445#msg21445 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4141.msg21445#msg21445)
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How do I post links to youtube video?
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How do I post links to youtube video?
Hoping you have something to show us regarding a freshly working machine - great!
I've not done a video link posting but I'd think one way to do it is something like this:
go to youtube and bring up your video. Then at the top of your screen where the web address is you put your mouse pointer and highlight the address, then right click on it and select copy.
Then you come here to this thread on NLG and open a message window by clicking on "reply" like normal. Then you put the mouse pointer in the message window and right click, then select paste. This should copy the link from the Windows clipboard to the message window. Then save the message like usual.
There are other ways and shortcuts, this is just one way that is easy to explain. If you can't get it to work you can give us the title of your video, we can search on youtube and find it so we can view it there and maybe post the link to it for you.
Also, there may be instructions here on NLG about how to do it. Posting the link is fairly easy. There is a way to actually embed a video in the NLG posting but I haven't read how to do that.
Here's 2 links to youtube that I just tried using the method outlined above, they go to someone else's video about dotmation slot machines & the method mentioned above seems to work fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nchWpltb-Fw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nchWpltb-Fw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJba72t1054 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJba72t1054)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBVDUbdcXl8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBVDUbdcXl8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fDegST06bc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fDegST06bc)
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Too Cool !! :applause:
I love these old dotmation machines too. Haven't played the Jackpot Party in years, that music is super-retro fun sounding. From what I could see the cabinet and glass looked bright and clean.
What's next with the other two machines, I suppose they are going to need additional parts before you can get them running? If so maybe you'll be able to get them as needed. You are down in south Texas, right? If I need any parts and you are wanting to sell any I'll keep that in mind.
Put that Jackpot Party in the bedroom so you can play it anytime you wake up in the middle of the nite!
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Oh yeah, I love these machines. We are regular Vegas visitors and these were some of the last slots we really enjoyed. They were funny and entertaining, used real money and had real reels. There was nothing I liked more than hitting on a good slot and putting my winnings in the two on either side. Can't do that with TITO.
I have a short list worked up of parts I need to get the other 2 working. Stampede and I think I'll make the other one a Big Piggy Banking. I loved that game! Can't stand video slots. Can't stand TITO. The last time I heard coins dropping from a machine was years ago in Laughlin at Avi's casino. I miss that.
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That sounds so much like our story, been to Vegas and Laughlin several times since the 1980s, saw the gradual changeover of machines to the newer video styles. A few of the new ones are entertaining but we got hooked on playing the old 3 reel mechanical ones that had a bonus feature and still like them best.
The Big Bang Piggy Bankin' dotmation was one of the most popular dotmation models from what I can tell and its cousin Piggy Bankin' was very fun too. We used to play Stampede a lot at the Las Vegas Club on Fremont St, that place and the small Mermaids/Bayou slot place on Fremont St were the last locations I know of that had Williams dotmation machines in Vegas. The "D' (formerly Fitzgerald's) on Fremont St has a retro machine area upstairs with a lot of the old coin-dropper machines but I don't think they had any dotmations last time I was there. Next time you are there stop by the "D" and check out their old time Sigma Derby mechanical horse racing machine, it's a blast to watch & play. Vegas rumor is they paid something like $10,000 for it including cost to get it running and the canopy.
Can't remember if I sent you this link, it is a good history of the dotmation machines and lists all the models that were created.
http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/wmsslot.htm (http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/wmsslot.htm)
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Sooooooo, what's the deal with locks? Get the old ones picked and keyed or just buy new? Is the reset one spring loaded? And how do I perform a jackpot reset anyways? Being as I am much more lucky in my house than a casino, I hit the top jackpot already and had to reset it by turning it off and back on. Couldn't find any info in the manual but was just skimming. Thanks!
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Sooooooo, what's the deal with locks? Get the old ones picked and keyed or just buy new? Is the reset one spring loaded? And how do I perform a jackpot reset anyways? Being as I am much more lucky in my house than a casino, I hit the top jackpot already and had to reset it by turning it off and back on. Couldn't find any info in the manual but was just skimming. Thanks!
The main door lock, cash compartment door lock and reset switch are cheap enough that many people just replace them rather than trying to locate a replacement key. You may be able to get a replacement key for the reset switch, they seem to be more readily available. There may be a number written on the reset switch somewhere that helps to identify which key to get, or others here may know from experience. The last time I bought a reset switch it was less than $5 and I was getting some other items so I was already paying a shipping cost. The reset locks I have are spring loaded, I like them better but I guess you could use either type, just would need to return it manually to the off position when done resetting the machine.
The cash compartment lock and main door lock can be keyed the same, that makes it handy. You will need to get the right length for the lock barrel so the cam it operates makes proper contact with the switch in the cash compartment and with the locking tab on the main door. A lot of people disconnect or defeat the switch wiring in the cash compartment, there are 2 of them. It avoids getting nuisance errors. But you can make it work like designed if you get the right length lock barrel plus the right length cam attached to the end of the lock barrel. The cash compartment door switch is just above the cash compartment area, centered vertically above the cash compartment door lock. It is a large pushbutton switch. The cash compartment door lock cam turns upward to actuate the switch. You can defeat this switch and not worry about getting the exact length cam, just so it is long enough to hold the door closed. The 2nd switch in there checks for presence of the cash can, which is a metal box that holds the bills. This cash can switch is located on the bottom floor of the cash compartment, many people just tape the switch down and leave the cash can out.
Page 1-5 of the WMS 40X manual (the one I sent you earlier) gives some info on the locks. People all over sell them, such as the slot dealers here & on the internet and eBay. And some hardware stores have them too. My machine came without locks so I had to run down the cam lengths. The trick is getting the right length cam, if it is too short or too long it won't do what it is supposed to. I can't remember the right lengths for main door cam and cash compartment cam, maybe others here have it written down. If need be I can take mine apart and measure them. Or you may already have the cams and just need to remove them off your old locks and reinstall onto new locks. If so that will be easy, you'd just need to measure your locks and get the same size.
Here's an example of reset switches and even a replacement reset key:
http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=reset (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=reset)
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Hey you said you may want a Piggy banking game.
http://www.rudysdeals.com/ (http://www.rudysdeals.com/)
He's got the upper and lower glass for one right now.
You could snap these up then all you need is the reels and eproms.
Have fun man!
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Looks interesting - thanks!
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mustangjeep, Yeah, I saw those at Rudy's. Only one of mine is a square top and the size is all wrong. Otherwise I would have snatched them up already. Have you had a chance to sort through your new machines yet?
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Well, that didn't last long! LOL. The center three LEDs on the I/O board are out. Looks like I'm doing the power supply conversion this weekend!
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Sorry I haven't had time yet.
Along with all the WMS machines I bought 4 Sigma SG150's and I need to get all of those working first, there going to a buddy of mine.
If anyone here knows anything about the Sigma's please check my post in the sigma section titled "Sigma SG150 reels won't stop spinning"
I'll keep you posted on the WMS parts.
Trust me I want to tear into those dotmation's right now, help me figure out the sigma's and I'll get to the WMS's sooner :applause:
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Hey you said you may want a Piggy banking game.
[url]http://www.rudysdeals.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.rudysdeals.com/[/url])
He's got the upper and lower glass for one right now.
You could snap these up then all you need is the reels and eproms.
Have fun man!
well, I looked but I didn't see a lower glass at Rudy's for the Piggy Bankin machine, but there was one for the Big Bang Piggy Bankin model (a different, but related game)
They do have a couple of different upper glass pieces for Piggy Bankin. The WMS dotmation machines came in 3 different styles and sizes of upper cabinets - a rounded top, a full size 16" square top and a smaller 9" square top. This meant there were 3 different sizes of the upper glass for many of the games. (some games came out before the roundtop model was introduced, so you won't see roundtop glass for those early games).
And to further complicate things the machines could have a max play of 2, 3 or 5 coins per spin. So there was different glass to show these max coin variations as well. On the roundtop and the full size 16inch square top the upper glass had the pay table. On the 9inch squaretop (a.k.a. choptop) the pay table was on the lower glass since there wasn't room for it on the upper glass.
The Piggy Bankin was the earlier game, then Big Bang Piggy Bankin came along later and it had different software. Below are a few pictures of the various Piggy games, including a not often seen 3 reel slant top machine. (slant top machines don't get much love from home users)
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rokgpsman - Yep! Looking for the original Piggy Banking but would take either if I could find a package deal. (Reels, software, reel window and glass that fits.) My flat top upper glass is like 15x 20 or so.
mustangjeep - Help you if I could but not a clue here. I assume you have the manuals and what not?
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rokgpsman - Yep! Looking for the original Piggy Banking but would take either if I could find a package deal. (Reels, software, reel window and glass that fits.) My flat top upper glass is like 15x 20 or so.
mustangjeep - Help you if I could but not a clue here. I assume you have the manuals and what not?
Pretty sure that kits are out there for the Big Bang PB game, I guess it is more common than the earlier Piggy Bankin. You can try putting a WTB (wanted to buy) ad over in the classifieds and see if you get any leads on where to get a kit, or the pieces needed. You might end of getting the parts from different sources.
Some folks even make their own artwork with two pieces of thin clear glass containing a printed sheet of the artwork on paper or mylar in between. The reel strips can be made also. This can make sense for difficult to find glass & strips and there are several discussions here with tips on how to do it.
Keep in mind that whatever version of the game software you end up with will determine if it is a 2, 3 or 5 coin game. So the purchase of the glass that shows the pay table probably needs to be done after or in conjunction with getting the software so it matches up. With that said, since these games have been out there for so long I wouldn't be surprised if various people couldn't help with whatever software version you needed to match the glass you find.
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Yeah I've got the manuals but the issue I'm having I can't find addressed anywhere in the manual :banghead:
Again I haven't gone through these WMS machine's yet but I might end up having a full game kit for a winning streak or x-factor tall square glass 3 quarter games if either of those will interest you?
Might be interested in a partial trade for your perfect match game parts?
Is your Perfect match game a tall glass? and how many coins?
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All I have in the P/M machine is the bottom glass and reels 1 and 2. It's a 3 coin game and I will try to post pictures. Seems like every time I try to put in pictures I get a "fatal error" message.
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One more.
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Hey Guys... I've been loosely following this post and thought I'd chime in. I've been on NLG for over 8 years ( old site included).... There are a few of us who are really into the dotmations and have helped quite a few on this site ( along with Kevin(Knagl), Kirk (Kirklasvegas),Dale, etc).... 1st off; this site will help all tremendously http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/wmsslot.htm (http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/wmsslot.htm) ....... It was created by Clay ( the guru of Dotmation IMO).... That site shows the various Dotmation and non-dotmation games ( the Monopoly games and a few other were never available to the public).... Also when you click on the machines, you can watch a video of that machines bonus..... To those attempting to put together kits; be cafeful as the top glass and belly glass are different for alot of the titles. (ie; 9" top glass kits have the payouts on the belly glass.... 16" and rt have the payout on the top glass and game title on the belly glass).... that's to say If you get a belly glass for Perfect Match that has "Perfect Match" on it and you have a 9" machine.... your top glass has really nothing on it so you won't have the pay scales at all on your machine ( I hope I explained that right)... There are also 2,3,5, coin variations of a few games.... I have or have had all dotmation kits ( kept the best ; got rid of the others) and I can assist with software for most titles. I'd recommend and I'm sure most anyone else who has had dotmations would agree...... never got a game called "SHOPPING SPREE"..... don't bother with Piggy Bankin' (really lame game); get "BIG BANG PIGGY BANKIN".... X-factor, Magic Lamp , Pharaoh's Fortune are all pretty bad titles....... Recommended titles are : JACKPOT PARTY, JACKPOT STAMPEDE DELUXE, BIG BANG PIGGY BANKIN, PALACE OF RICHES (I only know of 2 people to have this kit.... myself and Kirk), JACKPOT LIMBO....... Again ths is only my opinion and If anyone has titles I didn't recommend byt they are fond of , please don't take offense..... Good luck, Bill
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All useful info and you explained it just fine. I spend a lot of time on pinside for my "other" hobby and found a link to that page in Clay's guide. Interesting info there. This is all new to me, but not so much greek. Many similarities between these and solid state pins.
Just finishing up my power supply-ectomy. I connected all the +5, -12, and +12 from plug J-12 to an ATX power supply. I get an error message of "+5ac open." In an effort to cure that, I connected the upper ground wire(black w/white stripe) To one of the ATX PSU grounds but still no joy. Taking any and all suggestions...
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Personally I'm not a fan or the modified power supply. There's actually alot of power going through the dot machines and I'm a novice of sorts with electricity. I realize it's explained thoroughly but members seem to have troubles getting to the finish and I'd be parapoid leaving the machine on as I don't want to burn the house down. Again; that's just me. Others say it's pretty simple and no problems at all... To each their own. I'd rather just take out the bad ps and pop in a good one. Good luck, Bill
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Yeah I've got the manuals but the issue I'm having I can't find addressed anywhere in the manual :banghead:
Again I haven't gone through these WMS machine's yet but I might end up having a full game kit for a winning streak or x-factor tall square glass 3 quarter games if either of those will interest you?
Might be interested in a partial trade for your perfect match game parts?
Is your Perfect match game a tall glass? and how many coins?
Sorry I can't be of any use on the Sigma machines, I know zilch about them, don't even think I've ever played one. But most likely there are people around that can give the help it will take. Since you got more than one of them hopefully you can get one running from all the duplicate parts you have to choose from.
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All I have in the P/M machine is the bottom glass and reels 1 and 2. It's a 3 coin game and I will try to post pictures. Seems like every time I try to put in pictures I get a "fatal error" message.
Looks like the Perfect Match machine may have been a parts donor to keep others running, the missing reel #3 probably went to a machine that had a reel basket break or a reel mounting base with its control board go bad but I wonder what happened to the Perfect Match reel strip that was on it? The strip probably wasn't needed on the other machine except unlikely event the other machine was another Perfect Match?? That may be what happened since the upper glass is also gone.
Anyway, it appears there is a bill validator, a hopper and a backplane board in the machine too, so you also got those parts at least.
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I would be interested in the 16" Winning Streak kit If it becomes available. Thanks, Bill
Yeah I've got the manuals but the issue I'm having I can't find addressed anywhere in the manual :banghead:
Again I haven't gone through these WMS machine's yet but I might end up having a full game kit for a winning streak or x-factor tall square glass 3 quarter games if either of those will interest you?
Might be interested in a partial trade for your perfect match game parts?
Is your Perfect match game a tall glass? and how many coins?
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All useful info and you explained it just fine. I spend a lot of time on pinside for my "other" hobby and found a link to that page in Clay's guide. Interesting info there. This is all new to me, but not so much greek. Many similarities between these and solid state pins.
Just finishing up my power supply-ectomy. I connected all the +5, -12, and +12 from plug J-12 to an ATX power supply. I get an error message of "+5ac open." In an effort to cure that, I connected the upper ground wire(black w/white stripe) To one of the ATX PSU grounds but still no joy. Taking any and all suggestions...
How did you do the connections? When you connected the ATX power supply wiring to the original cable that plugged into the side of the machine's lower power supply (big gray box) did you disconnect the old power supply board on the inside of the lower power supply gray box? Keep in mind that the big gray box also has a circuit board in there that makes +18vdc and a special +5vi line that is separate from the normal +5vdc line. If you can explain in more detail how you did the ATX wiring and what modification you did to the original hookup maybe I can help with the problem you are having. Need photo or an explanation clear enough for my tired brain, I've been hauling and stacking firewood at Mom's today.
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Just got our power back. Bad thunder storms here tonight. So using Clay's instructions as a guide, I spliced in an ATX supply to the +5, +12 and -12 lines as well as the ground lines that were pointed out. Have checked and rechecked but I still get the error message "+5ac open."
As for the lower power supply, it just suddenly starts blowing the 4A fuse. I would much rather just fix it if someone has any guidance. Is the regular fix just to re-cap it? My guess would be that the bridge rectifier has gone on it. Any advice is helpful and you guys are great! Thanks again!
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Just got our power back. Bad thunder storms here tonight. So using Clay's instructions as a guide, I spliced in an ATX supply to the +5, +12 and -12 lines as well as the ground lines that were pointed out. Have checked and rechecked but I still get the error message "+5ac open."
As for the lower power supply, it just suddenly starts blowing the 4A fuse. I would much rather just fix it if someone has any guidance. Is the regular fix just to re-cap it? My guess would be that the bridge rectifier has gone on it. Any advice is helpful and you guys are great! Thanks again!
well, the first thing is probably to go over the wiring mod work and double-check stuff. Could the sudden blowing of the 4amp fuse be related to the wiring mod just done if the fuse was not blowing before? Did you remove the old power supply board or disconnect it from inside the lower power supply gray box? If not then you have it connected to new ATX power supply and it shouldn't be. The ATX power supply replaces the +12, -12 and 5vdc from the old power supply board, they can't both be connected together. But still need to leave the other board (power distribution board) in the gray box since it is what makes the 18vdc and the 5vi.
So if the old power supply board is still in the gray box either remove it or at least disconnect all cables and connectors from it. Also, on many ATX power supplies one of the wires needs to be grounded, it acts as a power-on enable and the ATX power supply will not operate without that signal wire getting grounded.
If you want to post a picture of what you have we might be able to see something. I'm not clear on where exactly you are seeing the error message "+5ac open". I don't remember any 5vac voltage used in the dotmation machines.
EDIT- Ding! I think maybe you are actually seeing the error message "StAc oPEN" (and not "+5ac") which is a bill validator error, means the bill stacker is not present, not powered up or something else about it is wrong. Could be one of the switches that senses things in the bill validator area. What's the situation with your bill validator, does it power up and cycle when the machine is turned on? Inside the cash compartment do you have a cash storage can that is removable? If not then look on the lower floor of the inside of the cash compartment for a switch lever slightly poking up thru a slot in the floor. This is the sense switch, just tape it down with some sturdy tape to make the machine think there is a cash can in there.
The error messages are displayed using the machines 7 segment displays so sometimes they are a little cryptic to read. For example, the word "rom" will appear as "ronn" because that is a close as they can get, the double "nn" is supposed to be an "m'. You gotta think like a Klingon to read them sometimes!
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Ugh. Ding indeed! The bill box has been out for awhile but never had a message for it before. And having had just worked on wiring, I read it as 5+ac, not Stac. I bat you're right!
Yeah, it was blowing the fuse before the PSU trick and is the reason why I did it. And yes, I disconnected the board inside the PDU.
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Ugh. Ding indeed! The bill box has been out for awhile but never had a message for it before. And having had just worked on wiring, I read it as 5+ac, not Stac. I bat you're right!
Yeah, it was blowing the fuse before the PSU trick and is the reason why I did it. And yes, I disconnected the board inside the PDU.
Ok, when I read your other message I thought the 4amp fuse just suddenly started blowing after you had done the ATX ps mod. If the 4amp has been blowing all along and the old power supply board inside there is totally disconnected or removed then like you said maybe one of the filter caps or the bridge rectifier is the problem. Is there anything else connected to one of the three 115vac convenience outlets on the lower PSU that could be pulling too much current and popping the 4amp fuse? You can unplug all the 115vac cables that connect to the several 6 position molex connectors that are on the bottom row of connectors on the side of the lower PSU, they just go to the various fluorescent lights and to power the dotmation box in upper part of cabinet. None of this is needed right now to find out why the 4amp fuse is blowing. It is not likely, but any of these 115vac cables could be blowing the 4amp fuse. If after unplugging all the 115vac cables the 4amp fuse doesn't blow then you'll need to track down which 115vac cable is causing it to blow. Could be a bad ballast or starter on one of the fluorescents, or a bad upper power supply board inside the dotmation box.
If I remember right you have the older style lower PSU. On the older one the bridge rectifier is soldered to the power distribution board and you'd have to desolder it to take it out of circuit. (in the newer style lower PSU the bridge rectifier is located off the circuit board and mounted to the gray box chassis, has 4 wires running to it).
If none of this helps you can check the various caps on the power distribution board for one that could be shorted, plus the other bridge rectifier (made up of 4 individual diodes) on the power distribution board that makes the 5vi voltage.
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Sounds like it might have been so much easier and quicker to not modify your power supplies. The Artesyn supplies hold up relatively well as opposed to the International and Condors. Just saying......
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Up and running fine on the combo of the PDU and the PC ATX power supply giving it the +5, -12 and +12. Pulling the plug from under the bill holder solved that problem. Now I'll go ahead and T/S the upper part of the PDU and see what I can find.
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Up and running fine on the combo of the PDU and the PC ATX power supply giving it the +5, -12 and +12. Pulling the plug from under the bill holder solved that problem. Now I'll go ahead and T/S the upper part of the PDU and see what I can find.
Sounds good, remind me again which of the dotmation machines this one is that you are currently working on? Is this the Perfect Match with reel #3 missing or one of the others?
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This is the Jackpot Party. Complete except for coin hopper tray.
The Stampede Deluxe is missing I/O board, CPU, software, coin hopper tray and upper 12vdc supply.
Perfect Match is missing PDU, all boards and software, one reel and hopper assy. (Has a DMD, need to test it and the one from the Stampede to see if they work.)
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This is the Jackpot Party. Complete except for coin hopper tray.
The Stampede Deluxe is missing I/O board, CPU, software, coin hopper tray and upper 12vdc supply.
Perfect Match is missing PDU, all boards and software, one reel and hopper assy. (Has a DMD, need to test it and the one from the Stampede to see if they work.)
Up and running fine on the combo of the PDU and the PC ATX power supply giving it the +5, -12 and +12. Pulling the plug from under the bill holder solved that problem. Now I'll go ahead and T/S the upper part of the PDU and see what I can find.
Good to see the progress you've been making on them. When it gets down to your last machine perhaps between your parts and what mustangjeep has one of you can get another machine completed & running.
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If you find out what you need just let me know.
I'll be parting out at least 3 of the games to get some of mine running, everything I don't need can be sold of pretty reasonably.
mustangjeep, if you are definitely going to be parting a machine out will you have a 25 cent coin head available? I could use one on my current project machine. And maybe some other misc pieces, I got a machine that was formerly setup for nickels and it also has some other parts missing, like the chrome frame piece that goes around the outside of the lower glass. Thanks for any help!
The coin head in the picture below is actually a tarnished nickel one, I could use a quarter one.
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This is the Jackpot Party. Complete except for coin hopper tray.
The Stampede Deluxe is missing I/O board, CPU, software, coin hopper tray and upper 12vdc supply.
Perfect Match is missing PDU, all boards and software, one reel and hopper assy. (Has a DMD, need to test it and the one from the Stampede to see if they work.)
Here are a couple of special order models where the casino or someone requested the chrome to be done in gold tone. Oddly enough, everything is gold tone, even the BV bezel, except the coin heads are not, makes me think the machines were converted from nickel to quarter denomination and the original gold colored coin heads removed. (EDIT- these are likely the original coin heads, gold toned machines still had a chrome colored coin head per another user here on NLG. Thanks mustangjeep.)
This is also a good shot of the Perfect Match game, not seen as often as some of the other games. Most of the dotmation games had a single payline but a few had a 5 paylines feature such as the Jackpot games (JP Limbo, JP Party, JP Beach and JP Country) and Money To Burn.
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rokgpsman, I've been working on the 8 WMS games most of the day and so far I've gotten almost all of them running! I have 2 left to work on, 1 on those is missing the upper glass so I may end up parting that one out, It is a $.25 game.
Funny thing you mention the gold plating because all 8 of my current purchased WMS's are gold plated. They were all from the Venetian.
I'm glad all of these games are coming together nicely, but at the same time kinda bummed that I won't be able to get all the parts to the guys I was expecting to.
I can't really part out good working games when there worth a lot more all together.
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rokgpsman, I've been working on the 8 WMS games most of the day and so far I've gotten almost all of them running! I have 2 left to work on, 1 on those is missing the upper glass so I may end up parting that one out, It is a $.25 game.
Funny thing you mention the gold plating because all 8 of my current purchased WMS's are gold plated. They were all from the Venetian.
I'm glad all of these games are coming together nicely, but at the same time kinda bummed that I won't be able to get all the parts to the guys I was expecting to.
I can't really part out good working games when there worth a lot more all together.
I absolutely agree - don't tear down something that is working. Don't let that bother you, you probably initially thought that you'd only get about half of them working. It sounds like a fun project working on so many machines and having the joy of seeing them back running again.
If you don't need or want a machine that is working then you can sell it to recoup some of your cost and let someone else enjoy having one. If you do end up with one that you sell parts from and have any pieces I can use let me know. Which game is missing the upper glass (X-Factor?), what style & size of glass does it need? (16" sq top, 9" sq top, roundtop)
I'm not surprised that you are having good luck getting them running. Other than the power supplies they are pretty reliable so not too difficult to get back into working order. Maybe when they are done you can show a picture of how they look?
The Venetian makes sense, it has an opulent look when walking thru the main casino area and they are wealthy & stylish enough to want to order their machines with a look that enhances that. Just curious, on your machines that are gold tone is the coin head done in gold or the normal silver color like the photo in my earlier post?
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Sounds like it might have been so much easier and quicker to not modify your power supplies. The Artesyn supplies hold up relatively well as opposed to the International and Condors. Just saying......
Dale,
Where are these Artesyn power supplies sold? I tried searching for them but came up empty. Do they make a replacement for the WMS upper power supply (inside dot matrix box) and also for the lower power supply? I like to be aware of all the choices out there. Thanks!
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Ebay. I was fortunate to get 8 brand new uppers and 9 brand new lower Artesyns power supplies at a very reasonable price. I have had only one failure with an Artesyn and that was my fault when I pulled a board with the power on. Had more then a couple 'Dot Fails' with the International and Condors.
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Thanks! How are they listed on eBay, like by name (WMS power supply?) or part number or description? When I checked on the Artesyn website to take a look at the power supply I couldn't find it, but their website wasn't the easiest to search thru.
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rokgpsman - The coin piece on all of my gold machines is chrome in finish. So I would say that all of the gold machines still came with the chrome finish on them while the rest of the machine is the gold finish.
The glass that's broken is on an X-Factor and it's a 16" top, all of the machines are 16" tops.
If anyone has a Perfect Match 16" square top game kit (upper, lower, payline glass, number of coins taken glass, reel strips and eproms) or any of the parts for the game I would like to know.
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Really enjoying the Jackpot Party and getting anxious to get another up and running. The spousal unit was playing it yesterday when for no apparent reason it said (literally) "Surprise!" and gave her a Jackpot Party. Nothing good on the reels, it just gave her one. Never seen that before.
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I've played that game and the video version some but haven't seen that happen. Maybe it is triggered by some random or unusual thing that doesn't come up often. Sounds like your machine has been played several hours so far and it is working well, good to hear it is in solid condition. Did it come with a working coin hopper and are you using it or putting the winnings on credit to play off of?
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Got a hopper, but no tray. We can feed coins in but it only pays in credits. Since I put in the ATX power supply it has been smooth sailing on the bottom half. Occasionally the top will go into dot fail and sometimes the lower right corner gets a little dim. (Open door, push button, close door and go on playing.) When it happens enough to bother me, I'll add it to the ATX supply. Meanwhile, I'm getting together an electronic component shopping list for a couple of pinball machines I am refurbishing and will add components to repair the upper part of the lower PDU. I also built a simple wooden stand to put it at the right height for the wife to be able to sit in a chair and play. She loves it. She's also dying to be able to run it solely on coins(tokens) so I am pursuing several potential sellers for a hopper tray.
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I found a photo of a hopper that looks like the same one I have in my dotmation machine. From what I understand Williams used the same basic hopper for all their dotmation machines, just had to change a few parts to configure it specifically for quarters, nickels, etc such as the knife and coin wheel. These coin specific parts are covered in the WMS 4XX manual on the parts pages for the hopper.
I think Williams got most of their dotmation machine hoppers from a company called Asahi Seiko. That company is located in Las Vegas and has a website but I didn't see the model used on the dotmation machines (I think it is a DH750) among their current products, I guess it has been discontinued or was a custom hopper just for Williams. There are several companies that have used hoppers and hopper parts for sale. Is the tray that's missing from your JP Party the upper stainless part of the bowl or something else? Maybe someone here has a junked hopper and they can pull off the metal part you need.
I've also attached a couple of manuals on the Williams dotmation machine coin hopper.
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Well geez, it never ends, does it? Humming right along, playing like a champ when suddenly, we are out of credits. I hate it when that happens. So a quick trip to the wallet to retrieve a $20 and... nothing. The DBV appears dead. And after working so well before! Long story short, after much hemming / hawing / troubleshooting / etc it dawns on me that I haven't put any paper money in it since I put it on the stand I built. Which means I haven't put any money in it since I did the power conversion. Hmmmmmmmm... So a DBV-200-A344 is 12vdc... tracing the power wire... aaaaand bingo! No power, no workey. Snip snip, trim, trim, solder, solder and we are back in business. Checked to see and there is nothing in the fixes posted for re-powering that mention getting power for the DBV. Lots of extra 12vdc rail wires and grounds in that ATX power supply I put in so an easy fix.
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Up and running fine on the combo of the PDU and the PC ATX power supply giving it the +5, -12 and +12. Pulling the plug from under the bill holder solved that problem. Now I'll go ahead and T/S the upper part of the PDU and see what I can find.
I wonder if what you said back in msg #68 about disconnecting the cable under the BV after there was a power snafu back then was what disabled the BV? Was that the power cable or one of the other related cables that go to the bill cash compartment??
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Here is where the DBV normally gets its power from the PDU.
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Here's where it plugs in to the DBV.
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Now I get why they had coins glued to the hopper wheel. Every now and again, despite being set for credit, it tries to pay out a large jackpot in coins. Will solve that problem soon enough...
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I think you can increase the hopper limit setting in the diagnostics so the machine won't pay out thru the hopper, all winnings will go to the credits. You can open the main door and then press and release the diag button on front of card cage multiple times until the word "HoPr" comes up on the digital display. When you see "HoPr" then stop pressing the diag button and to the right on the other digital display there will be a 4 digit number that represents the hopper setting. This setting is the level of a jackpot that when exceeded the machine pays thru the hopper instead of putting the win to credits. You can increase this to 9999 so the hopper won't get activated since no win is that high. Setting this Hopper setting is covered in the manual, I think you use the MAX BET or SPIN button to change the number in each digit of the display. And you use the reset key to move right to left from one digit to another, changing each one until you get the 9999 hopper setting. The digit that can be changed will be flashing. I'm going by memory, the manual explains it better.
On the ATX power supply main connector I believe there is a wire that is the Power Enable, grounding it will cause the power supply to operate and you won't have to use a lamp as a load. At least that's how I remember it. Here is a diagram of the ATX power connector on some power supplies, you can probably google a pinout of your ATX power connector if it is different but I think they are standard.
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Yup. This one I set up years ago for testing boat electronics and pinball components. It has an on/off switch and the idea with the bulb is that you won't have to "restart" it when you switch from one item to the next. If I can't repair the original game PDU, I'll set it up for permanent residence and remove the bulb. It generates as much heat as the rest of the machine does.
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Ha! It does provide light to work by and some warmth on a winter day!
What if the 12v bulb was connected to the 5v wire? The bulb won't care, it would glow about half as bright and produce less heat, maybe would still be enough of a load to keep the power supply running? Back in the old days of pc repair I used to keep a 5.25 floppy drive plugged into the bench ATX power supply for the same reason. So maybe even a small load is enough to keep it running.
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Now I get why they had coins glued to the hopper wheel. Every now and again, despite being set for credit, it tries to pay out a large jackpot in coins. Will solve that problem soon enough...
That was clever of a previous owner to glue the coins (or tokens) to the hopper wheel. That way they didn't have to keep a bunch of coins in the machine, the wheel would spin until the correct number of coins passed by the coin counter. And they didn't have to have a complete hopper bowl to hold the coins. But when you insert coins to play I imagine they fall loosely inside the machine unless they somehow get diverted back to the coin tray.
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mustangjeep you need to clear your inbox.
Shawn
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I had someone send me the same thing... ANd then I saw you were talking to Bud... Ooops.....
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All clear Shawn,,,, sorry bad at this techy stuff.
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...and then there were two!! Got the JSD up and moving thanks to some fellow NLG members. Sadly, the DBV-200 will not take ANY new bills. The one in my JPP will take the new $20s. Is that an easy upgrade? PITA to load it up with $1. Looks like I got some DMD troubleshooting to do as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGD1BMflIc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGD1BMflIc&feature=youtu.be)
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...and then there were two!! Got the JSD up and moving thanks to some fellow NLG members. Sadly, the DBV-200 will not take ANY new bills. The one in my JPP will take the new $20s. Is that an easy upgrade? PITA to load it up with $1. Looks like I got some DMD troubleshooting to do as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGD1BMflIc&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGD1BMflIc&feature=youtu.be)
The newest update you can get (I actually bought some chips for some of my DBV 200s from Vendors on here), is THE BIG HEAD 5.00 BILLS... That would then cover 1s, big head 5s (prior to the purple money obv.), orange 10s, 20s, 50s, and 100s..... That chip is the newest you can do with the DBV 200.... Make sure you CLEAN your Bill Validator well, and that all the belts are as tight as you can get em, and that they still have "grip" to em for the bills coming in.... (easy to get replacement parts on the site too; much cheaper than buying a newer bill validator)... I had a few that wouldnt take anything but one dollar bills UNTIL I CLEANED THE OPTICS and tightened it up and got some old gunk out of the cog wheels from just being used alot, and then BAM, reading everything but 5s (I literally cannot find the old school small head 5s anywhere; govt, and/or currency collectors have snatched em up to collect or destroy.....
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...and then there were two!! Got the JSD up and moving thanks to some fellow NLG members. Sadly, the DBV-200 will not take ANY new bills. The one in my JPP will take the new $20s. Is that an easy upgrade? PITA to load it up with $1. Looks like I got some DMD troubleshooting to do as well.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGD1BMflIc&feature=youtu.be[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdGD1BMflIc&feature=youtu.be[/url])
Good job on the repairs! Unfortunately, the vertical lines on your DMD are usually caused by the dot matrix screen itself, but you can make sure that's it by swapping around your other DM screen to verify. I've read of some people having luck in repairing the screen by resoldering some connections along the edge of the screen or something, maybe you can find out more with google & give it a try. The DM screen has a circuit board mounted to the back of it.
The DBV-200's are made with either a replaceable eprom that is in a socket, or they have a flash type memory that is soldered in. You can remove your DBV-200 head from the machine and turn it over to see which it has. On the bottom there is hopefully a long chip with legs along both sides that is plugged into a socket. This chip has the software that determines the paper bills the DBV accepts. You can carefully remove the chip from the socket and replace it with an updated one. You have to make sure the replacement chip is for your machine, this is identified by what is called the "ID protocol". (this is because different slot manufacturers use their own comm protocols for the BV to talk to the MPU control board)
The updated eproms are available from many sources here on NLG, ebay, slot machine parts places, ets. Here is a link to one place so you can see how it is listed:
http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1039&search=DBV (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1039&search=DBV)
If the DBV-200 has the flash type memory then you need special equipment to update the software. In this case there are places you can ship the DBV-200 to and they will install the new software for you, sometimes the complete thing is as low as $15. Some of the vendors here on NLG can do this, as well as sell you the replacement eprom if that is all you need. You can look at your DBV-200 that is already updated & accepting the new $20's to see what the software label on the eprom says, it should give a version of the software and the ID protocol, such as "ID-044/045" or similar.
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So I switched out the display in the JSD with the one in the (game formerly known as) Perfect Match. Obviously, the problem is in that display. I fear, however, that the power supply for the display is on its' last leg. It came on bright and clear and worked fine for awhile. Then , it would kinda dim. When the picture changed it would be bright again, and then dim. Finally it went into continuous dot fail. Has anyone here attempted to replace the display with an LED or similar? I have found same size led displays that simulate a DMD on AliBaba and was wondering about compatibility/power requirements/etc.
Side note: A fellow member was kind enough to make me the game roms and said they are "97%" chips. I firmly believe that the wife is benefiting from the 97% and I am getting the 3%. :hissyfit:
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It's an interesting idea to replace the dot matrix display on the Williams dotmation machines with another type of display such as an LED or LCD. Over time I've read comments from others wondering the same thing but don't know of anyone that actually has done it. There may have been some similar efforts on this in the pinball hobby due to the large number of pinball games that use a similar DM screen. If you follow up on this we'd all benefit from what you find out.
I'm not exactly sure which parts you swapped during the troubleshooting on the JSD, whether it was only the DM display screen or the entire dotmation display box from the Perfect Match. Is it possible something other than the DM screen is causing the continuous Dot Fail error? (dot controller board, cable from dot control board to backplane, cable from dot control board to DM screen, 12v power)
From my limited knowledge it looks like the dot controller board (left side board inside the dot matrix metal box) sends graphical control data to the back of the dot matrix screen over the narrow ribbon cable that runs between them. The back of the dot matrix screen has its own circuit board that then takes that data and turns on or off the selected pixels on the DM screen which are aligned in a 192x64 column & row matrix.
I'd think that the circuit board on the back of the dot matrix screen also has to produce the higher voltage that the dot matrix screen uses, which is typically around 180vdc or a little higher for gas discharge and plasma gas displays. It is similar to fluorescent lamps, takes a high voltage to cause the gas to ionize and allow electron flow which causes the light to be produced. The only power that board gets from the machine is 12v so my guess is the board has a circuit to make the 180-200v. I've not seen a schematic drawing for the circuit board on the back of the DM screen, although there are drawings for all the other Williams boards in the dotmation slot machine. So that board may be a 3rd party board made by the same company that produced the DM screen and the assembly was sold as one piece to Williams. Williams probably did not treat it as a repairable item, hence no schematic drawings.
So Williams interfaced their dot controller board to the DM screen & its board using whatever control signals that 3rd party board required. If it is the high voltage on that board that is causing the changing brightness on your screen it might be repairable. On older equipment like this, especially on display devices, one of the first suspects is the old capacitors, they tend to dry out & degrade over time. A common repair from tech shops to older display equipment is to do a "re-capping" which replaces old electrolytic capacitors. I don't know of repairs to the DM screen board that have been done by anyone here or elsewhere but it's possible.
For someone fairly new to this area you've done very well on your repairs, don't let any setbacks get you down.
You probably are getting 100% of the headaches of getting the machines running, but remember the old saying "Happy wife makes for happy life". :yes:
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So I switched out the display in the JSD with the one in the (game formerly known as) Perfect Match. Obviously, the problem is in that display. I fear, however, that the power supply for the display is on its' last leg. It came on bright and clear and worked fine for awhile. Then , it would kinda dim. When the picture changed it would be bright again, and then dim. Finally it went into continuous dot fail. Has anyone here attempted to replace the display with an LED or similar? I have found same size led displays that simulate a DMD on AliBaba and was wondering about compatibility/power requirements/etc.
Side note: A fellow member was kind enough to make me the game roms and said they are "97%" chips. I firmly believe that the wife is benefiting from the 97% and I am getting the 3%. :hissyfit:
WORKS THE SAME WAY WITH MY WIFE ON THE 97%/3%; It might just be a "WIFE" thing.... Also, I did notice that with all 3 different games I owned on probably 20 machines I had refurbished and sold/played, they were VERY STREAKY.... Sucks up about 100 bucks, 75 cents at a time, really hitting just small things here and there, and then bam! Win 50 bucks, 100 bucks, even 200 bucks on a few bonuses that pop up or a 1000 coin hit on Jackpot Party, etc etc, and then itll take most of it, or all of it and some (usually the latter), just to start the "streaky" run patterns all over again.... Just how Williams DOT GAMES, In My Experience have played out...
Really have enjoyed this thread here; I just sold the last 10+ DOTs of mine to a member here, but I sure loved em and I am sure I will be getting many more in the near future and every little bit of info I can learn from problems others have and figure out and post on here, the better for all of us... So, sorry you had problems and headaches, but others have benefited from those problems......
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If it was easy, everybody would do it. Right? Whenever I load up a wreck of a pinball that was two steps from the dumpster some folks in the community think I'm nuts. Their thought is that for X amount of money more I could get a nice working example. My reply is where in the heck is the fun in that? This IS the fun part to me. Sure, it gets frustrating sometimes when I just want to play and the machine... well not so much. But I always get over it.
The DMDs were built by the Cherry Corp out of Waukegan, Il. They are no longer in that business. According to their website they now produce input devices and POS equipment. Looks like I will have to go digging at the pinball site to see if anyone has made progress on a swap. The problem is that companies still produce these displays including a 192 X 64 sized version for $500. I don't know if those would work in these or not. And with replacements available most folks won't go working on a different route. The old displays do have a step-up transformer that drives the 12vdc input to the 180 range. That would obviously have to change for a LED display. They also have 20 year old caps and diodes so I may try some replacing there. I will be pursuing this and will gladly share any useful info I can glean.
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Hi All, appears you are having a good time and trading a lot of info here, glad to see that, it's what we're here for, but for future lookers and to really supply help to people it's probably time to start separating some of the issues into different topics or continue the off topic parts of the conversation through email or personal messaging. At 100+ posts it is a lot to flip through to "maybe" find a piece of info that will help with whatever problem you're researching. Thanks for your consideration and enjoy the new year!