New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => WMS Reel Games => Topic started by: Lukea on June 22, 2016, 06:24:42 PM
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I have a wms 401 nickle slot that on start up gives me game change 2, then i press the red button on the card cage and it gives me need clear. I bought a ram clear chip and new battery as the old one was completely dead. on install of ram clear I get a dong but no denomination appears like instructions say, thought ram clear was bad sent back for check, they said it was good but sent a different on in its place, still no luck. :( any help would be greatly appreciated
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Were you attempting to do a game change ? Completely dead battery ???? Is this your machine and suddenly these issues occurred or is it a machine you just picked up ? Can you give more details ... Where did you install the RAM clear chip ? What steps did you take ???
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Might I add... you registered on NLG less that 2 hours ago. You posted your issue with the Williams and now you're sending me PM's .... Can I suggest perhaps introducing yourself to the fine people on NLG and mayby waiting a day or so to give us a chance to respond...
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I was not attempting to do a game change, the battery was completely dead, I picked up the machine, the previous owner said it work randomly then died. I put the ram chip into slot xu3. Sorry for being so antsy I've had this game for 6 months and getting excited to play. :drool04:
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After the dong when you clear your display should read something like 40- xxx-05. the 05 is your denomination. You will then replace the clear with your XU3 and push the red diagnostic a few times for Clr then again till it says Door Open.
Dale
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I never got the 40-xxx-05 and tried with 2 different ram clear chips. Put eprom back and goes back to game change 2 need clear.
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Odd, your display works and says game change and needs clear but won't display after you put the clear in and get the single bong? After a battery change you can usually get by with a soft clear if I remember right. Is this a non dot game?
Dale
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Odd, your display works and says game change and needs clear but won't display after you put the clear in and get the single bong? After a battery change you can usually get by with a soft clear if I remember right. Is this a non dot game?
Dale
Probably a non-Dotmation going by the info in his other post about the machine, says it is a Lucky Ladies Liberty Belle machine (which wasn't a Dotmation game), and he says it is a 401 model, I think the Dotmation machines are 40S5 models. But as far as I knew the CLEAR procedure was the same on all WMS 4XX machines.
his other post about this machine:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=11791.0;topicseen#msg63586 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=11791.0;topicseen#msg63586)
The Game Change 2 message is an advisory message, you acknowledge it by pressing the Diagnostic switch on the front of the card cage and the message should go away. I'd make sure the Diag switch actually works if pressing it does nothing. The Game Change 2 message can appear if you swap cpu cards from another machine, or replace the game chips on the cpu board with a different game, since the eeprom on the backplane has stored in it whatever game the machine was when the last CLEAR was done. It is this mismatch between what game the eeprom says and what game the cpu board actually has that causes the Game Change 2 message. A CLEAR using the correct denomination (nickel, quarter, etc) CLEAR chip that matches the denomination of the game chips on the cpu card should take care of it, the eeprom will get synced to the game installed on the cpu board. Make sure the CLEAR chip is for the same denomination as the game chips on the cpu.
I brightened your photos so I could see some details:
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When I press the button it says clear ram
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That means your Diag switch is working, so we don't have to worry about a broken Diag switch or wire to it.
Does the display actually say "clear ram" or something else? I don't remember that particular message. If it only says "clr" then it is asking you to press the Diag switch button to do a soft clear. But if it says "need clr" then it is saying you need to do a hard clear, that is where the special CLEAR chip is used, and that CLEAR chip has to be the same denomination as the game chips installed on the cpu board. The CLEAR chips come in different denomination versions.
Look at the labels on the cpu board games chips, make sure they are the same denomination as the CLEAR chip you are using. How about showing us a photo of your machine and a photo of your cpu board with the chip labels so we can read them.
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Hope this helps
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I also put the clear chip on the board
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Was wondering if my dead battery would have something to do with cpu board showing 3, I can't see if the cpu board is showing anything. Not sure how to do tests it's talking about. Like I said before it has new battery on the board .
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Yes, the photos help to make sure what you have since we haven't seen every possible machine out there. It sound like you are doing the CLEAR procedure the right way, I'll go over it and you can say if it is any different from what your instructions say.
Turn off machine, remove CPU board. Remove XU3 game chip and install CLEAR chip in its place. The CLEAR chip should be the same denomination as the game chips you will be using. Put cpu board back into machine and turn on power. After a few seconds you should see the game denomination (5 in this case) appear in the Win Meter display and the number "6" in the Bet display. This confirms the CLEAR procedure is completed. Now you turn off the machine, remove cpu board, remove the CLEAR chip and reinstall the XU3 game chip to the socket. Install the cpu board and power up game. The display on machine will now say "clr" which is a message saying the clear procedure worked properly. If "Game Change" message appears (normally only if you have changed the game chips to a different game, or if you have swapped a different cpu into machine) then press the Diag switch to confirm, this will sync the eeprom security chip on the backplane to the current game on the cpu. You may need to press the Diag switch a few times. Then machine should reinitialize and be ready for play. Shut the door and insert a coin, see if it works ok.
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Was wondering if my dead battery would have something to do with cpu board showing 3, I can't see if the cpu board is showing anything. Not sure how to do tests it's talking about. Like I said before it has new battery on the board .
I've operated machines that had a missing or dead battery, just had to do a soft clear (press the Diag switch) to clear the condition and then it would play ok. My experience has been on the Dotmation versions of the WMS 4XX models, but I'd think your 401 model would be the same. Are you saying you can see the number "3" displayed on the cpu board?
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Did everything and no 5 shows up, put data eprom back and does same, upon start up game change 2 then need clr and I made sure chips were installed the correct ways.I cannot see if the cpu board has anything just saw this in the manual and knew my battery was dead and dead for awhile
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Did everything and no 5 shows up, put data eprom back and does same, upon start up game change 2 then need clr and I made sure chips were installed the correct ways.I cannot see if the cpu board has anything just saw this in the manual and knew my battery was dead and dead for awhile
I think that page in the manual about the numbers that appear on the cpu board display is for factory troubleshooting the cpu board with a special test fixture, like a cpu board tester or a card extender that lets the cpu board stick out farther from the card cage where they can see the cpu troubleshooting display, it is a single digit display located on the board back too far for use when the board is installed in the machine.
When you get the "need clr" message I think that means the machine doesn't think a hard clear has been done. And since you are not getting the correct indications after you do the clear then I'd guess there is a problem with the clear procedure not getting done for some reason.
Was your machine working ok the last time you used it, then the battery died and these problems started then?
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Lol anyone here that can test or fix my boards for a reasonable price or does anyone know how to get my display to show 5 when the ram reset is installed :) I'm thanking everyone already trying to help.. I can wait to see this machine up and going I've had it for 6 months.. :( I'm really lost on where to go to home fix or send out to fix
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I don't know of anyone that repairs these boards unless it is something minor, people usually replace a bad board. Are you suspecting you have a bad board? Do you have another machine you can use the boards from to figure out what is bad? Is it possible your cpu board is bad, you've never seen the machine work, when you got it was it working?
Have you double-checked that the battery you installed is good and that it is installed correctly? Do you have a meter to verify the battery voltage?
I just noticed that this thread is in the wrong area, this is the Universal slot machine area. I'm gonna ask a moderator to move this to the right area, should be in WMS Reel Games. May take a little while for them to get it moved, it is ok to continue with any posting, they will move all of it.
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I don't think there bad and no other machine to try other boards, I'm just trying to throw ideas out. I just wish the ram reset would show the denomination and would have been an easy fix so I can see what this machine does and have fun playing.. lol
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If you've never seen this machine work before I'm wondering if the game software on the cpu board is actually for quarter use, despite the 5 cent decal on the front. That might explain why the CLEAR procedure isn't working, since you ordered a 5 cent denomination CLEAR chip. Is that possible? Can you verify some other denomination things on the machine, like the coin entry slot and the coin comparitor on the inside of the door, are they for nickel or for another coin?
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Did everything and no 5 shows up, put data eprom back and does same, upon start up game change 2 then need clr and I made sure chips were installed the correct ways.I cannot see if the cpu board has anything just saw this in the manual and knew my battery was dead and dead for awhile
After installing the CLEAR chip and turning on the machine how long did you give it to run? Did you get any indications, like any sounds or display messages?
Also, just to make sure, are all five of the red LED's on the righthand side of the I/O board lit, meaning the power supply voltages are ok?
Not likely to be the problem but have you double-checked that the battery you installed is good and that it is installed correctly? Do you have a meter to verify the battery voltage?
Have you ever seen this machine work, or has it been broken ever since you got it? Perhaps the cpu board is bad?
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(Make sure the CLEAR chip is for the same denomination as the game chips on the cpu.)
FYI , the CPU eproms are not a dedicated denomination. The Clear chip denomination determines that.
Dale
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I have never seen the game work, the slot fits only nickels, all 5 lights in the card rack come on except for the far left light away from the 5 lights. And the battery reads 3.5 volts. I gave the machine up to 5 mins for the clear chip to give me the 5 amount, it just stays blank. Lol if I wasn't prior military and like the game theme so much I'd probably switch games.
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All 5 lights indicate both power supplies are good.. Is there corrosion around the dead battery... A red flag for me is that you aid the previous owner said it worked on and off..... Is your preference for nickels or quarters ? Pull out both boards and carefully inspect app gold metal pins to ensure none are bent at all.. put boards back in firmly... Also check both boards for any corrosion around leads or burnt out areas... And believe it or not... give the boards a quick smell for that burnt metal smell... With the previous owner saying it worked on and off you might just need a new CPU... Bill
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I prefer nickels, and is the cpu easy to obtain and reasonable if I have to go that way. I've kinda checked boards with no smell or burnt spots
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(Make sure the CLEAR chip is for the same denomination as the game chips on the cpu.)
FYI , the CPU eproms are not a dedicated denomination. The Clear chip denomination determines that.
Dale
ok, thanks for that correction, good to know.
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I prefer nickels, and is the cpu easy to obtain and reasonable if I have to go that way. I've kinda checked boards with no smell or burnt spots
Since your cpu board doesn't complete the clear process and you've tried 2 different clear chips that would point to the cpu board being bad. But nothing is absolute when troubleshooting like this, to know for sure you'd need to substitute another cpu board in your machine (or try your cpu in a good working machine). I see them come up for sale now and then on ebay and Rudy's:
http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=90 (http://rudysdeals.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=90)
Also some of the NLG members here have boards for these machines that they sometimes sell, you could post a request for a WMS (aka Williams) 40X machine cpu board, I think it is the same part number cpu for the 400, 401 and 40S5 models. Your cpu is part number 5779-13910-02, part number 5779-13910-03 will also work, it is just a slightly newer version of the same board.
You would buy the board and then transfer your socketed game eproms (5 chips for your game) to the new board. Be careful about getting the correct cpu board, WMS made a similar board for use on a different model machine that had a video display instead of spinning reels, it won't work in your machine. There are part numbers printed on the cpu board, that is the best way to identify them.
If the cost of another cpu board is high then perhaps the best option would be to try your cpu board in another machine and see if it works or not. That would prove if your cpu board is good or bad before you spent for a replacement cpu. Did the place or guy you got this machine from have others?
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If Dale doesn't have an extra board; I might have one... A new CPU board would be my logical guess at this point though. Bill
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If Dale doesn't have an extra board; I might have one... A new CPU board would be my logical guess at this point though. Bill
That's what I'm thinking too, but I'm also wondering if the backplane board that has the security eeprom might be bad instead. Doesn't the clear process format the cpu ram and reinitialize it, plus write to the eeprom on the backplane board? If the eeprom is bad then the clear process may not be able to complete.
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Those IO boards can cause some of the oddest problems......
I'm sure Bill or myself can help with any boards, CPU, IO backplane.
Dale
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Is the security eprom an easy fix and try prior to trying a new board and is there anyone that checks boards to see if mines bad
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The security eeprom is either soldered onto your backplane or it is socketed (I've seen a few this way, but the majority are soldered). It is an 8 pin dip chip (the only one in the backplane) and if you have decent soldering skills, you should be able to replace it. If it is sockted, it is obviously super easy, just swap it. The chip itself is under $3 in most places, and it is certainly cheaper than buying a backplane, but as with all obsolete machines, you should be stockpiling parts while they are available for any future replacement if you want to keep the machine for a long period of time.
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Where are you located? I can check the boards if you pay shipping both ways. You might be closer to Bill or Robert, I 'm sure they can check them too. You would have to send both of them . As for the security chip I am not sure but there is only one on the IO board that is removable, you may need a special burner adapter to copy one, I don't have that capability to copy one of those types. On the CPU board the only removable chips are your game chips, not sure but at least 5 and maybe 6. Some games don't use the XU18 if I remember correctly. Somebody else may be better help then this....
Dale
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I'm in Oregon, my security xu18 the small security chip is gone and was told I don't need it?
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A little help what is the back plane board I don't know the names of the 2 boards in the rack either :)
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EDIT - more info added
The backplane board is mounted behind the card card. Both boards inside the card cage (I/O and CPU) slide into connectors on the backplane board. Notice the small chip on the backplane, that is the eeprom. You don't have to program it on a prom burner, the machine writes and reads it as needed. The backplane also has several wiring harnesses or cables connected to it from various assemblies in the machine, like the spinning reels, bill validator, meters, and the stuff on the inside of the main door like displays and coin acceptance parts. That's why the backplane is sometimes called an interconnect board, it is a central location where just about everything connects to each other.
The XU18 on your cpu board is not a security chip and it's not very small, it is a full size 32 pin chip. It is one of the sound eproms, but your game doesn't use it, some games have more sound effects than others. The other 3 socketed eproms near XU18 are the sound eproms - XU17, XU30, XU31. These 3 chips, plus the 2 eproms at XU2 and XU3 contain the game software.
If you are not able to get thru the hard clear process or get the machine to work I'd think about taking these guys up on their offer to test your boards. That way you'll know what does or does not work, then you can see about getting any needed replacement parts. Or you could guess at what is wrong and order the part, might get lucky and that's all it takes to do the repair. But that may not fix it and you'd have to order something else, at least you'd have the extra parts as a spare, but that process would probably take longer to get the machine working.
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The only chips you have on the CPU are game chips. XU2 is your % Chip, XU3 is a game chip. XU17, XU18, XU30 and XU31 are sound chips. In some games the XU18 is not used. Sorry for the confusion.
Dale
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It's been a long time since I worked on these, but it sounds like your doing the clear correctly. You just need to be pressing the button to continue past the error. Here is the last few steps your missing. Read them and follow exactly.
I n s t a l l t h e G a m e C h i p
❑ 15. Reinsert the Data EPROM in socket XU3.
❑ 16. Return the CPU Board to the card cage. Engage the board by pushing its white board ejector tabs toward the cage.
❑ 17. Close the Card Cage Door.
❑ 18. Slant top machines only: Reengage the coin chute.
❑ 19. Turn GD power ON. The message "clr" should appear on the Credit Display. This message indicates proper clearing of the RAM. If you've also performed a game change, "6AnnE CHAn6E" appears first. [big]Press DIAGNOSTIC to load the new game information. Then "clr" appears, indicating the cleared RAM.[/big]
❑ 20. Lock the card cage.
• R e i n i t i a l i z e t h e S y s t e m
❑ 21. [/color]Push the DIAGNOSTIC button. The machine shuts down and reboots. If you cleared the machine properly, the message "clr" appears on the Credit Display. Push the DIAGNOSTIC button to acknowledge this message.
❑ 22. Close and lock the Main Door.[/i]
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Also question anyone know what the wiring harness p8 its just up and behind from the door open pin every time I wiggle it it makes noise through the speaker, could that cause my problems on ram reset and what is it?
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A photo from you of this connector and where it is in the machine would probably make it a lot easier to answer your question.
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The screwdriver is between the wires of p8 when I move the machine it makeseems noise not a dong a different one
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That looks like the wiring that goes to the pull handle solenoid. Be careful about tugging or poking around with a metal screwdriver when the machine is powered up, you can short something out and cause damage. Not sure why the speaker in the coin tray would make noise when this connector is wiggled, is it just a static sound? You can turn power off and disconnect this connector to see if the contacts are shiny and making good connection. But I think those wires are just for releasing the pull handle on the side of the machine after you've pressed BET MAX or BET 1 and machine is ready to spin the wheels. I've attached your photo after I brightened it a little so we can see it easier.
What have you decided to do about figuring out what boards are or are not working?