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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: capt7310 on August 11, 2016, 06:56:16 AM
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I have an 873 that will eject only 1 coin no matter where the reels stop. I can see the spin cam for the coin mech when it ejects 1 coin, and instead of it advancing as soon as the plunger ejects the coin it moves back to the same spot on the board. I can manually move the spin cam and when the contacts get to a certain point on the board it will eject anywhere from 4-20 coins. :banghead: . I attached some pics maybe I'm missing something or a contact is off. The 2nd pic shows where the spin cam stops and keeps ejecting 1 coin,, but will not move from there.
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first you want to reset the cam to zero position pull the hopper unit out and push the bottom plunger in this should set the hopper back to zero those fingers should be at 6 "o" clock position when reset to zero
next check that second finger is making good contact not saying it isn't but looks a bit bent to me
then set up a pay and see what happens
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Hi do you mean the relay plunger in the bottom of the coin hopper
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Yes on the bottom.. It's the plunger just behind the payout board..
That spring pictured in IMG. 2380 does not look correct to me :Scratch-Head: . If it's too strong or tight then your hopper may not works correct.. Have you tried to advance the spiral cam by hand? Push the advance plunge 5-10 times, then push your lower one to see if the spiral cam returns back to the start position with your wiper fingers pointing down to the 6 O'Clock position...
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Yes if I advance the spiral cam by hand it will eject anywhere from 4-20 coins. If I push down on the upper plunger just behind the coin eject I can see the spiral cam advancing and if I keep doing that it will eject 20 coins, but on it's own it stops at say the 2 o'clock position and hangs there and will not advance. I straightened that 2nd finger and it makes contact. If I set the cam too the 6 o'clock position it will advance to it comes to that 2 o'clock position as in photo img 2384, then nothing no more movement.
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capt if you look at the bottom of the payout board there are some numbers which correspond to the payouts
the spiral cam should always start in the 6 o clock position if you set or have minimum win say two coins the spiral cam should advance only as far as it has stepped off of the number 2 it then should stop on the next pull of the handle the spiral cam should reset to the 6 o clock position I cant make out wether your hopper is running away on payout or not ,so could you try setting a 2 win and say a ten win and post back whats happening
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Mark, Looking at the first pic this is a JPO (jack pot only) machine. Looks like 20 coin is the smallest payout, then 100, & 200 coins.
Capt, if you manually advance the spiral cam, does it stop in the same location, or will it advance past there?
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OK Guys Hang on he I go...... Did everything, setting the spiral cam and yes if I manually moved it, it would kick out 20 coins. So a little adjust here and there, WHEN all of a sudden the top part of the machine starts this loud humming and the reels start chattering and the F-ing machine starts spitting out coins that I almost had to take cover cause they wouldn't stop flying out of the hopper... and then the top of the machine SMOKE starts coming out, this looked like something you'd see in a cartoon. So of course I immediately shut it down opened the top and the plunger relay fried. So what do I do... yep let's touch it. So now I no longer have a fingerprint on my left index and thumb. So now this has become personal and I will fix this F-ing machine. So guys I need a relay and the part # from what I can see from the burn unit is B-25-925a/975a. Don't know if anyone has one but if you do let me know.
:burningresistor:
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Hey Paul,
Can't take these things personal and no cussing around your machine.
It might blow a coil. Just kidding!
Send me your address via a personal message and I'll send you a coil.
Thanks to Jon (Ovenguy) who loaded up my truck with parts a couple of years ago.
You might want to have your top glass out and someone to pull the plug when you get the machine ready to test.
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Thanks Dave I'll PM you :thank_you:
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Yep, that's a B25-925A, probably the most replaced solenoid on the Bally. I know the # from memory.
Several reasons they burn up, but one major one. When that coil (odds step up solenoid) fully steps, it is supposed to open your EOS, or End of Stroke switch which is mounted just above the solenoid, attached to its linkage. (an N.O. switch sticking straight up and opened by linkage.)
If it does not open when the coil plunger is pulled it, it will keep the coil on, and after about 5 mins it starts to melt. That switch is there to kill power to the solenoid AFTER it reaches its max stroke. Somewhere there's circuitry for it and I'll have to dig out a schematic. Also, imagine if the EOS was not in circuit, and a coin was stuck holding down on your coin in switch...it would burn up. I think that's why Bally put it in circuit.
Gets real freakin HOT as you found out. You should see people run screaming when a bally on a casino floor starts pouring out smoke.... Pretty awesome.
I'm pretty certain it was NOT caused by your pay problems, but was incidental.
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Paul, when the reels align for a payout the hopper will start to run. Then continue to run until the odds unit step up wipers runs off there respective metal receivers. Somehow this circuit is being interrupted and the motor shuts off.
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Try tugging on your carriage (the silver horseshoe shaped thing that holds your spiral cam in place). If it pays then you should remove the spiral cam clean its fingers and also clean your pay board. The innermost wiper finger is the 'feed' and if dirty can cause this type of problem.
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Also check where the spiral cam fingers reset to. They must be touching the beginning of the pay tabs, not off of them
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So that I'm sure what you're telling me I should check. In photo IMG 2384 check that piece correct. I did straighten out that one contact. I have the new relay and will install it and hope things work. TY
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These contacts on the spiral cam are what OldReno is referring to. They need to be in the down posision or 6 O'Clock at the start of your payout cycle. The other part your referring to is a coil, not a relay..
Gary
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Well this has turn into a total cluster, I installed the new COIL and now the arm no longer locks after the coin drop. The arm you can pull down without dropping coins. When I remove the upper panel and reinstall it and place a coin through the coin slot, it will drop 20 coins, then the arm no longer locks in you can just keep pulling it down without the coins :Crazy:
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The headache keeps on going :banghead: ... I put the new coil in and now when I pull the arm it no longer locks in meaning I don't have to add coins the arm keeps pulling down without inserting a coin. The insert coin light doesn't go on and I found a cracked resistor I'm not sure if that's a factor to this cluster. Any thoughts other than "FOR SALE".
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Don't know what happened to the reply message. But the new coil was put in and now when I pull the arm I don't have to add coins the arm doesn't lock back anymore you can keep pulling down on the arm without coins and the reels spins and stop as they should but don't have to add coins. The 1-5 coin light stays on as where before as you added 1-5 coins the light would indicate such, the coin insert light does not go on either. The upper control unit seems to be a total cluster now I also found a cracked resistor don't know if that's an issue.
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The odds unit appears not to be resetting. When the odds unit resets back to 1st coin the handle release coil is energized thus dropping the Latch Arm in front of the Lock Pawl. This enables the handle to be pulled. Will have to figure out why the coil isn't resetting the odds unit.
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The odds reset relay allows odds reset solenoid to work. Find that relay and push it down to see if solenoid fires.
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This is the upper unit that I think all the problems are coming from. From the pics anything looks like a problem.
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Paul,
Attached are photos of a resistor and the odds reset relay. The resistor is located in these switch stacks, second set down.
Not sure you can reach in with a dowel rod or narrow stick and press the top of the odds reset relay with the machine on.
This relay resets the odds unit back to 1 coin. See if that works.
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If you can remove your top lite or drop it down you can see the relays and press them down -- carefully
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I think I may have found the problem. I've attached some pics to explain that it might be another coil C28-1100. I removed the light and watched the coil and when the first coin was inserted the plunger on the coil did not go up it was after the second coin the coil plunger went up. After the payout the coil plunger never came back down I had to manually push it down. It seems that the coil is not resetting? the insert coin light worked and the 1-5 coin lights worked as they should, and the arm worked as it should, but as long as the coil shaft/plunger remained up nothing worked. So is it possible that coil is bad. [/size]
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Paul,
Best to test the coil to see if it works. Going to set up a little test in the morning.
Using the coin switch as the power source and two jumpers to a coil.
Making all connections with the machine off. Re-power the machine and hit the switch to see what happens.
This is the easiest way I can think of without having a spare transform for testing.
Let me give it a try first as I don't want your machine to get damaged.
Anyone else have an easy way to test a coil please post.
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Your odds reset solenoid also has an odds reset relay that makes the solenoid fire. Find that relay and push it down it should make the solenoid work. Looks like a 21 wire to the relay coil. Look at your 'odds open at 0 switches for proper adjustment. They are sticking up below your reset solenoid and opened/closed by tabs on your white plastic odds gear...
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You can test a coil by jumping a wire from the 30 wire (solid yellow) to the NON-orange side of the coil with it in circuit. Out of machine you need orange jumper and solid yellow jumper to fire any 50V coil. To check all coils in top unit jumper orange to any orange on any coil and then touch yellow jumper to other side of any coil. You only need to jump to one orange as they are all the same connection
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Thanks Mr. Reno,
Great easy way to test a coil.
I inlarged your reply on the iPad and took a screen shot of it for reference.
Thanks again
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There is a picture of his odds relay in post #22.. It's the lower relay.
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OK took a jumper wire from the yellow on the coil and when the plunger was up and not resetting took the other end of the jumper and touched it to a blue wire off one of the other coils and it went down.
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You can check your relays (coil with switches and plate to actuate them) and your solenoid (big coil with plunger that does mechanical movement). Now realize the odds unit will only reset with 2 or more coins played. If one coin only then it does not need to reset. So play 2 coins and then reach into top unit & push down on odds reset relay armature. You should then hear odds reset solenoid fire and coin light go back to one coin
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Yes that's exactly what happened. 2 coins in plunger went up, I pressed the reset plunger back down and the coin light went back to one.
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Did you push the odds reset relay or the odds reset solenoid???
The relay controls the solenoid. If the relay does not close its switches then machine cannot pulse the solenoid.
Sorry I am distracted, finally got access to a website I'm working on. Secretsolarinstitute.org which had been blocked until I paid them my 'dues'...lol
So I'll only be half here for a bit.
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I assume the machine still doesn't take a coin(s).
There are a few switches in between that coil. Maybe need cleaning, out of adjustment or loose wire.
Jon posted a link to a schematic awhile back. There are a couple on this form.
I'll see if I can send you a link or send a copy of the one I have.
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The machine takes coins but the issue is it will not reset. Mr. Reno I pushed down on the Reset Coil after the 2 coins were put in and like you said it reset back to 1 coin and all the lights functioned correctly. Again I'm not that good at the electrical end but I'm thinking it's that coil because everything works fine as soon as I reset the coil. The photo's IMG 2404 and 2410 are what I'm resetting.
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http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=10610.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=10610.0)
A while back I had Reno post this it's really good information on the reset circuit he is much better spoken than I am it might help you out if you do actually need a call let me know I think I still have a hundred of those reset coils in stock
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Your pic 2406 shows odds reset relay. Pushing down on that makes the reset solenoid turn on. (Only if you have played more than on coin. If you have jumpered and tested all the coils in your top unit and they all fired then you probably have an open switch. Look at the switches in 2404 -- they are your open at zero odds (1 coin played) and they (at least 2 of them )should close after 2nd coin in.
Zero odds means 1 coin plaYed. 1st odds means odds stepped one time which means 2 coins played 2 odds means 3 coins played etc. watch those 4 sets of switches as you push down the odds step up solenoid several times and then also when you push reset solenoid. Every switch on that stack should change position ( change state) at least once. No switch should stay either open. Or stay closed as you cycle the odds assy
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Hey guys, OK I've have traced the orange wires from the step up coil with one orange to the reset coil and the other orange from the reset coil to the beauplug and all is good. I've check the line unit step up relay and when the reset coil plunger is up it will activate the step up coil. When the reset coil plunger is up the line unit reset relay buzzes like crazy until I push down on the reset coil plunger, then everything works, meaning the 1-5 coin lights work and the insert coin and coin accepted works. When the reset coil plunger is down the wiper assembly advances as it should from 1-5 coins, as soon as I pull the arm the reset coil plunger remains up the wiper assy does not reset back the lights for the coins 1-5 remain lit and the insert coin light does not come on and the pull arm relay latch does not reset, BUT as soon as I push down on the reset coil all good. I looked up a reset coil on ebay, and by no means you guys are the experts and I'm going by your advise but everything I do comes back to that relay...can it be bad? I have another Ballys but don't want to start switching parts that machine works nice and I have the fear factor that I might screw up my other machine.
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Ok first, the line unit (odds disc) does not reset until you push down on the coin in switch on the door. That starts a new game and resets the odds.
Your line unit reset relay and the reset solenoid BOTH use the "open at zero" switches as in my last post. If they are not closed after 2nd coin is inserted, then they will not get signal to reset the odds.
Please verify that your open at zero odds sws are closing after 2 coins in. If they don't you won't get reset of odds.
Step up your odds unit by hand and watch those switches. If you have tested/jumpered your odds reset relay coil and it works then that is not the problem. Please check those switches for proper working and also the odds reset relay sws too.
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Here's the wiring on schematic I have
30 wire to line unit open at zero switch then leaves on 58 wire going to line unit reset relay switch (normally open) leaving there on 21 wire which goes to one side of line unit reset relay coil and ALSO goes to another line unit open at zero switch. Other side of this switch is 31 wire which is soldered to your reset solenoid.
You must check those switches to verify they can and do close....
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Good work Paul,
You've narrowed down the situation pretty good.
I will re-read your post a couple of more times.
See what I can come up with.
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So I checked with my other Ballys on the operation of the relays and my other machine has definitely an open relay or coil and I'm chasing my tail here. My other machine the plunger is up and when I place a coin in it, it goes down and the second coin the plunger goes up and as I add coins the plunger remains up. After I pull the arm the plunger remains up until I add a coin then it goes down and works as should. My other machine seems to be just the opposite and when I trace the orange wires everything looks fine but the line unit reset relay buzzes and clamps down until I press down on the reset relay then everything works fine. If I play with one coin the machine pays out and works... 2 or more total chaos. I thank everyone for their input but I'm almost ready to raise the white flag.....
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Paul,
i'm sure you'll discover what is the problem, it's good to have a machine for comparing.
Thinking there is a set of contacts open or closed when they shouldn't be.
Will re-read your last post a few more times. I keep going back to page 18 in the manual.
Dave
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Paul,
Re-read your post. The reset coil is getting power some place other than the reset relay contacts or somehow through the relay. Assuming the reset coil is not mechanically malfunctioning.
Not the common solid orange wire, but the other side should be an open circuit until the reset relay is activated. With your good machine off put a meter lead on the coil solder joint opposite the common orange.
Touch the other lead from the meter to a solid yellow wire.
See if you get a beep / reading. I don't think you will.
Now do the same test on the machine in question to compare results.
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Ok, when odds unit resets the reset coil plunger pulls down and is mechanically latched in place by the linkages as you will notice. It stays latched (down) until your odds step up plunger pulls in 2nd coin played. It stays up thereafter until your game is over and only resets when you start a new game. It will unlatch and pull down again as soon as you insert coin for new game (when your coin in switch is pushed down by coin or with finger. If you only play one coin then it will stay latched. It sounds like it is working correctly -- that's how it is supposed to work.
Did you check all your open 4th odds switches for proper operation?
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Let me rephrase last post. If you only play 1 coin then the odds reset plunger is down. ONLY if you play more than one coin then it goes up. It will stay up until you drop in a coin for the next game, which is when it is supposed to reset.
It sounds like it is working just fine. What is the problem that you are trying to fix -- we need you to be specific.
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Paul wrote "the line unit reset relay buzzes and clamps down until I press down on the reset relay then everything works fine
Okay sounds like the contacts associated with the reset relay may need some attention. As when you manually work that relay it appears to work fine.
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Circuit goes through handle release switch (23 wire on one side). Make sure it contacts WELL to the other side. You may also have a snap switch 1st reel wiper pushes it back but I don't think you have one. That's downstroke circuit HOWEVER it also creates a holding circuit to ensure reset. This circuit is through odds unit open at zero (30 to maybe 58 wire) AND also through odds unit reset relay switch which is on the odds relay switch stack. This holding circuit keeps odds unit reset relay AND reset coil plunger on so that the reset action is certain to work. Any one of these switches not making full contact can cause your problems. IF your reset relay coil works well and firmly when you jumper it then your coil is good. Only if it is weak should you think about replacing it.
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Hi
If your handle is still not locking I would fix that 1st. This maybe off base but check coin relay coil switches. Specifically switch that has 83 and 25 wires.
Read Old Renos Tips on "no handle release" in there it states handle will always be released if this switch is stuck closed. Switch should be open till coin switch trips coin relay coil.
I'd even put a piece of tape on switch contact to test.
Jim
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I had a buddy of mine come by and do some checking, he is much better at electrical and understanding what should take place then me. I showed him the broken resistor that was connected to the Line-Unit Step-Up Relay and he thinks that is a big issue so I ordered up a resistor from ebay and should have them in the next day or two. Reno in reply #45 you are right with the plunger down with one coin in, and as I add the second coin in the plunger goes up as it should. BUT here's the problem...when I pulled down on the arm and the reels stop and I go for another play and when I insert the one coin the plunger should automatically go down ( I checked that with my other machine) and it doesn't I have to manually push it down it WILL NOT reset. The issue is the the reset coil will not RESET. I will keep everyone posted :Scratch-Head:
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Hello Paul,
Did you get the resistor yet?
Added photo of new machine.
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Very cool machine, I haven't received the order yet but as soon as I do I'll install it and keep my fingers X. This is my other machine that I'm basically referencing from.
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Nice machine, didn't realize it was a double progressive.
Got a 5 line machine double progressive, but its a Summit conversation.
Bought it for parts, but it's in real good shape and hate the idea of tearing it apart.
Working on getting it going without spending a lot. Replaced a couple of electronic parts and it somewhat works. Have to look at few more things.
Hopefully the new part will do the trick.
Maybe the bad coil caused the resistor to over heat.
Old school test, give it a sniff for evidence of burning.
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Dave the sniff test only works when you hook it up to a variac and get the voltage up to about 1:45 then the sniff test works great you find it right away Hehe
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Hey guys I want to thank all who try to help me to fix my machine especially, Dave, Mr. Reno you were always there for a reply. Unfortunately I'm tapping out and put the machine up for sale on craigs. The machine works great with one coin in anymore than that and it's problem time. Thanks again I'm on the quest for a Low Boy.