New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: AlaskaJohn on February 04, 2024, 12:10:29 PM
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Day 2 of my first slot machine. I think it is a 1090 EM. Still trying to confirm and locate the correct manual. (No ID plate.)
Drilled the lock and discovered disconnected wires and previous work.
Current issues:
No payout on anything and mechanic win meter does not read anything. There was a disconnected wire that I reconnected but no change. This is the biggest issue currently.
No coin tray. I am hoping this is an easy replacement to find.
No top lights working. It looks like a previous owner has rewired the fuses as one is completely disconnected. I checked the other three and they do not look blown.
The center wheel sometimes only spins slowly. (About 5% of the time). Also, the left and center graphic strips seem to have been dented, slightly ripped, and then repaired.
The bell has been completely disconnected. ( I don't care about this. )
I guess 1st order of business is to confirm model number, get a wiring diagram, and see how much "previous repairs" I need to fix.
I am new to all of this, so all advice is appreciated. Thanks!
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A few more photos of areas of surprise.. (missing fuse and dangling wire)
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Here is the wire to the win meter that was disconnected when I opened it. I hoped the solve to "no payouts" was going to be as simply reconnecting, but no luck.
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1090 looks right, and if it left the factory as a generic bally 25c game then it'd be a 1090-1.
see if 684-320 is stamped into the slotted metal index disc on reel 1. It could also be a code like Q-3CM-1
paperwork for the game is in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1090-1/ ... the schem is the w-1046-xxx file.
manuals and other stuff poke around in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/
the bally 5000 is the most relevant manual, then the 2400 and 2600. The manuals are mostly exploded parts diagrams tho.
the connection of the power cord to the machine and the use of the fuses is confusing, ambiguous, or just wrong on the schematics. In general, games for the USA or other 120V locations didn't use all 4 fuse holders.
if any lights work, the 6V fuse is ok. The schematic will show ya the details for the top compartment lighting. Some of the top lighting is always on, some is controlled by the coin unit disc. If none works, you'll want to check the blue wire 20 and yellow wire 30 connections. Wire id -> color chart is on the schematic. 20 = solid blue, 30 = solid yellow.
the yellow wire with the crimped on connector ya'd want to see where the other end goes. If it's just the power cord ground, then it's usually attached to the metal plating lining the cabinet under a transformer or socket bracket screw head.
the win meter just displays the number of coins dumped out on a win. It resets on the next handle pull. Ya gotta get the game paying coins first.
the game has a hopper cutoff relay, and that needs to be powered for payouts to happen. The relay socket is on your hopper, but no relay is in it. You can cheat and bypass it ... it's not important for home use as it's job is to detect if the payout counter is not stepping up, which would result in dumping the hopper contents out for on any win. The bypass you care about is connecting wires 12 (red/blue stripe) and 70 (orange) together.
david walz has recently sourced the relay, and other folks hopefully can suggest where to find your missing parts.
if you want to email highest possible resolution pictures of the game to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them to the above site. See the 1088/pics and 1114/pics for an idea of pics that are nice to have (and the 1088 has a pic of a hopper cutoff relay). Generally the entire sides of the units are best as pics can be zoomed in on to see details. Close-up shots are useful, but don't help in identifying where in the game a component is.
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Thank you. I was looking at the 5000 manual wondering if it was correct. Thanks for the confirmation... I will print that out.
The slotted disk on reel 1 is stamped withs "1090" .. which appears to confirm the model number despite the expectation it might say "684-320" or other [shrug].
Here is a photo of the other end of the yellow wire.
Also another mysterious dead end wire and some electrical taped mystery.
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I will follow up with high resolution photos as you suggest later this evening after I get my 4yo to bed.
Thanks for all the other info as well.. I will reply when/if I get lights and/payouts working based on your guidance.
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just says 1090 huh ... well, that's ambiguous. The first twenty 1090 models I have info on, and they commonly used a couple different discs depending on whether it was $1 or 25c.
if ya need more specific info on what to look for, let us know. I'm a voltmeter/schematic/jumper wire guy, while other folks have more pragmatic debug approaches based on experience with a lot of games.
tmi
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if ya look in the 1090/ stuff, $1 games used p-684-305 on reel 1 and 25c games used p-684-320
the difference is the depth of the slot at position 7.
the dollar slot at position 7 is a bar, while position 7 on a 25c machine is a plum. Changes the game payback percentage.
'course, your game isn't necessarily a 1090-1. If ya take a video of the reels spinning it can be slowed down and the order of the symbols checked. That's a little easier than uncrimping the reel tin at the top of the tape strip and lifting it out so you can see the tape part number on the end of the tape underneath.
a 1090-1 uses tapes m-231-[28, 29, 30] for the three reels, so you can just compare the docs to your tapes.
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How do you remove the hopper? It appear like it should slide out but does not come out when I pull.
It appears that mine is missing some screws but I don't see a release or why it won't slide out.
There is a spring loaded piece of metal at the bottom (see arrow in photo), but pushing it back (or pulling it) doesn't seem to release anything. 🤔
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AlaskaJohn,
The hopper should just slide outward. It may be a bit corroded in. There should be a handle on the front of the hopper that is missing. Speaking of missing. It appears that your hopper is missing a relay where the empty socket is located and I can see there is no knife and guide plate in the hopper.
The metal spring loaded bar below the hopper is to reset the safety timer when the hopper runs out of coins.
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Okay. Thanks. I will give some more tugs. I just did not want to break anything.
Yeah, Wolftalk called out the missing relay above and mentioned it is possible to bypass (which is why I want to slide it out and take look).
I am not sure what a "missinf knife" is.. but I guess I will find out as soon as I do a side by side comparison with other photos.
I am not sure what a
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Okay.. a good fearless yank was what it took.
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This may help identify some missing parts.
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Photo of encapsulated relay. Not to hard to find.
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1088-1090
Hopefully AI will not rotate this photo.
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Per wolftalk, I attempted to bypass the hopper relay as follows:
"The bypass you care about is connecting wires 12 (red/blue stripe) and 70 (orange) together. "
That is, I checked their pin locations and added a jumper, but no luck. Cherry on 1st reel resulted in nothing.
I guess at this point I need to pull out my voltmeter. Ugh. Never has been one of my strengths.
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DavidLee,
When you say the relay is not too hard to find, where should I look? Ebay?
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Probably just google it for starters.
Ebay most likely, but costly.
Possibly someone on this site has a one they can send you.
Also there are slot machine part suppliers across the US.
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Probably just google it for starters.
Ebay most likely, but costly.
Possibly someone on this site has a one they can send you.
Also there are slot machine part suppliers across the US.
And a lot of the slot parts cross over to the Pinball folks.
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Yes, pinball machines more so than slot machines.
Just beware of the voltage requirements.
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more specifically on the relay, you want a 50VAC (or 48VAC) standard ice-cube relay with 4 SPDT switches with contacts rated for 5A@120V
typical relay bally used was guardian electric 1310 series - A410-362625-14 iir
I'll assume you were kidding about using the voltmeter since everyone loves using them :-)
your jumper wire position in the relay socket looks reasonable, so we'll assume you've connected wire 70 to 12 correctly.
if you want to sanity check, got a couple jumper wires with alligator clips? If yes:
1] connect a jumper end to the grey/yellow wire on the payout relay coil. The payout relay is the top one on the hopper with the two stacks of switches.
2] shove the hopper back in the game with the jumper hanging out
3] turn on the machine and touch the other end of the jumper to the yellow wire on the coin switch on the door.
does the hopper motor turn on and coins start spitting out while the jumper is connected? If yes, your relay socket jumper is good and you now have to debug a problem in the payout circuits.
if you don't have jumper wires, life is harder 'cause even with a meter, you often want to probe places you can't reach with the mechanisms in the cabinet unless you have meter leads with clips on them.
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Hi,
I have a spare that I can send. Along with a new socket in case you want to replace it also.
Two to pick from if indeed you would like one sent.
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Top 3 pics in above post are of the original style. Bottom two pics are newer style.
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Alaska John, reach out to me as i may have the parts you desire, maybe even a tray and bottom cabinet piece, Don lee. 1 917 992 2803
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Awesome. Will do. Thanks.
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your jumper wire position in the relay socket looks reasonable, so we'll assume you've connected wire 70 to 12 correctly.
if you want to sanity check, got a couple jumper wires with alligator clips? If yes:
1] connect a jumper end to the grey/yellow wire on the payout relay coil. The payout relay is the top one on the hopper with the two stacks of switches.
2] shove the hopper back in the game with the jumper hanging out
3] turn on the machine and touch the other end of the jumper to the yellow wire on the coin switch on the door.
does the hopper motor turn on and coins start spitting out while the jumper is connected? If yes, your relay socket jumper is good and you now have to debug a problem in the payout circuits.
Thanks. And yes, I do have a couple jumpers with aligator clips. I will give this a try over the weekend and follow-up if I have questions or discoveries.
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Okay. I might have made matters worse.
1) The new relay arrived from jimliner. Thanks! Put it in the socket, played until I hit cherry on first reel. Nothing.
2) Attached jumper to the grey/yellow on payout relay coil and other end on yellow wire of coin switch. (See photos). Hopper turned a until quarters filled the slots then it stopped. Completely.
Now nothing. Previously working door lights are out. Pressing coin switch does nothing.
I assume I blew a fuse, but the three in the back that I am aware of all look good.
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Here are some more interesting photos .. or maybe not?
There appears to be at least 3 connections without wires. (All on back of hopper)
I will dig into wire diagrams and see what I can find.
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Quick update... after letting it sit for 5 minutes with it unplugged, I turned it back on and it's working as before. So.. at least it's not worse than it was before i started.
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Progress!
I figured that at some level my problem must be with the payout system, so I pulled it out and disconnected the two plugs. As I pulled the plugs I checked them to make sure I knew which one was which. Low and behold, the pins did not match the plugs. Previous owner had swapped them!
Now a reel combo that results in a payout activates the hopper. Unfortunately no coins come out, but then I noticed there also might be a missing piece to the hopper (someone mentioned potential missing pieces earlier in this thread).
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Unfortunately no coins come out, but then I noticed there also might be a missing piece to the hopper (someone mentioned potential missing pieces earlier in this thread).
AlaskaJohn,
That is where the knife, outlet cover assy. and hopper baffle go. Also, it looks like your agitator (black star) is turning to tar. They tend to disintegrate over time.
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Now nothing. Previously working door lights are out. Pressing coin switch does nothing.
I assume I blew a fuse, but the three in the back that I am aware of all look good.
no worries, the safety delay circuit kicked in because it saw the hopper running without the payout counter unit stepping up. Your game will complete shut down very quickly when that happens to prevent uncounted coins from dumping out to a very happy player.
pushing on the bar your white arrow is pointing to in post 7 will reset the timer and wake up the game.
the timer is just a motor turning a cam. If the cam rotates far enough, the safety cuts off the main power. The circuit briefly disconnects the motor periodically when the payout counter is stepping and the spring-loaded cam resets. Power cycling the whole machine effectivey does the same thing ... ya don't need to wait - off and on will do it.
without the knife (60 that 63mini circled for ya), the coin won't lift up the roller arm, so the game should shut down again since it's the switches that arm operates that step up the payout counter.
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Thanks wolftalk and 63mini! This is all great info... not least of which for the names of the parts. I could see them in the exploded view.. and I could see them in the 1088 photo ...(https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1088/pics/1088%20-%20hopper%20mixer%20and%20pinwheel.jpg) .. but couldn't find a name for them.
It sounds like pinballwizard55 might have the parts I need.
Its progress for sure.
While waiting on parts I will start trying to track down lighting issues. Only the bottom door lights work (bottom behind belly glass).
I was reading that maybe there is a way to test lights with a jumper? Since no obvious wiring issues I can see so far, seems like testing with jumper will help narrow down where the break is?
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the belly glass is lit by a 120V flourescent tube that's always on. There's another tube above the reel window opening.
the rest of the lamps on the door and on the top are on the 6VAC circuit.
if you look at the lamp sockets, there will be a blue wire (20) on one side of the socket (may be a bare wire on the top panel ... follow it around and see if a blue is attached someplace).
you can put one meter probe on the blue wire and the other probe on the yellow wire (30) on the coin switch and you should get 6VAC. If you don't, see if the plug connection to the door is burnt or the blue wire is broken at one of the sockets (it daisy chains, so there's often two wire segments attached to each socket. If one breaks off, you lose all lighting to any socket downstream).
if you get 6VAC, then put your probes on the blue wire and the other wire on the socket. If no 6V, then whatever is controlling that light is not turning it on.
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Okay, I confirmed two of the florrescents need replaced by swapping bulbs after I also replaced the starters. New bulbs (F8T5/CW) should arrive tomorrow.
As for the 6V loop, first thing was a broken fuse holder. That replaced I followed blue wire up to this thing (See photo) that has detached wires. I don't see a similar unit in the 1088 photos I have been comparing to.
It is unclear to me where Y and B get attached.
The other end of B goes to what I assume is a transformer (122-105).. in 2nd photo.
The other end of B2 goes to the fuse.
In other news, I picked up a replacement coin tray.
PinballWizard55 has the hopper parts I need (knife, etc) and I am just waiting on shipping costs from him.
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in post 26:
Here are some more interesting photos .. or maybe not?
There appears to be at least 3 connections without wires. (All on back of hopper)
those blades are connected to blades beneath them by bare wire. It's one of the ways they wires things when a circuit branches and a single wire feeds two other wires thru separate switches.
they just stripped the wire extra long and ran the bare end to two blades.
occasionally you'll see two or more switches wired in parallel like that for redundancy.
in post 33, that relay wasn't put there by bally. It looks like it disconnects the 50V and 6V to most of the game. There's a couple reasons why it may be there:
1] a remote way to shut off some of the game power
in your case, not all the power - the flourescents would still work. The game would just not do anything and reject any inserted coin.
2] a low voltage detect/anti-cheat mechanism.
One way people cheated machines was to connect them to a variac (adjustable AC power source). The goal was the turn the voltage down so some stuff worked and some stuff didn't. For example, if you could get the hopper motor to turn on but not have enough power to step-up the payout counter, then any win would dump the hopper contents.
the newer safety circuit prevented this technique tho. It's also one of the reasons why the coils are sometimes different on solenoids and relays - they want to guarantee that if one circuit doesn't work due to low power, a different circuit won't work either.
personally, I'd remove the relay and restore the wiring to factory. You can look at any 1090 schem. e.g.:
- the orange/red double wire should connect directly to the transformer on lug 2 (where the solid orange wire is)
- the blue/red double wire should connect directly to transformer lug 10 (where the solid blue wire is)
both those redundant double wires go to the plug below the transformer and thru there to the fuses:
- orange/red -> 5A fuse -> orange 50V hot wire 70
- blue/red -> 15A fuse -> blue 6V hot wire 20
need a picture from further back showing all the wiring in that area to see what is going on, but it looks like there's some splices that would need to be corrected.
it looks like the 6V from the transformer is not going anywhere useful ... the obvious thing would be a mating switch on that added relay. However, it also looks like one of the blue wires from the added relay is connecting into a 120V circuit, so you really need to make sure what is going on before connecting those two blue wires together ... or if getting rid of the added relay, remove all the modifications and make sure you have things back to what the schematic says.
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My 1090 detailed repairs.
https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=19353.0 (https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=19353.0)