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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: gooch on November 12, 2014, 04:12:51 PM
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Greetings to all!
I have acquired a three reel, single line. high top, full sized Bally machine. I think it is an 809. I have slowly got it back to running and paying off properly. It takes up to 5 quarters and it has bars with one 7 per reel. It has been modified in the sense that the original lights in the upper part of the machine behind the top glass were changed to wedge type bulbs and a plywood platform that is hinged so the relays are behind the lights when it is pivoted up and the lock slid down over the screw.
My problem is that every so often the first reel on the left, (facing the machine), doesn't kickoff and spin properly and does strange things, it sort of slowly spins, drifts and the reel turns so slowly or even goes backwards very slowly. The center and right reel work fine with every pull of the handle. The 3 levers goes into the index slots no matter if the left reel makes a good spin or not.
I have looked at the books I have, Owners Pictorial Guide and the Complete Service Manual for the Bally EM machines and the Bally EM manual and they recommend multiple solutions/ fixes, from the loosening the "E" nut to removing the reels and checking out if the "bars" are gummed up or changing the holes.
If this was your machine, what would you try first, then second and so forth?
Any assistance would be appreciated!
Thank you.
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I'm not familiar with your machine type, but can you swap the 1st reel assembly with the 2nd reel assembly and then see if the problem moves to the 2nd reel position? If the problem stays in the 1st reel position then you'll know the problem is in the cabling, connectors or other stuff that specifically goes to the 1st reel. If the problem moves to the 2nd reel position you'll know that something is wrong with the reel assembly and you can then perhaps swap individual parts of the reel assembly to narrow down what is wrong.
But if swapping the reel assemblies doesn't change the problem then you'll know the problem is not in the reels but elsewhere. At least if would eliminate some things. Some times if I can't prove what part is bad I begin by verifying what is good, so as to eliminate possibilities to a reasonable level.
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all 3 reel are on same axle make sure reel spins free on axle , you can take all 3 reels and and spin them if not that the kicker on 1st reel might need adjustment oris sticking
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Yah, you're 1st reel is just sticky.
I'm going to have to disagree with rokgpsman's suggestion, as you don't want to dissemble an EM reel mech just yet.
Remove the 3 reels (on the one central axis, as buybestslots stated) from the machine (all 3 reels are on one axle, and are remove by levers underneath. They will come off like 3 reels on a stick basically.), and set them aside. Underneath where the reels were are the "kickers". Thoroughly clean and lube the mechs and once you get in there, you should start to see what the problem is. So etching is gummed up...dig that gum out and reapply some nice silicone or 3-in-1 and you'll be set. Be sure to wipe off any excess, as it tends to splatter a bit on the first few spins and can damage your reel strips.
You can also try a search on here for gummed up or sticky reels. I know Old Reno have an awesome tutorial on how to clean and re-lube a reel mech.
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It sounds like the latch paw for reel one is frozen to the cross shaft. The cross shaft is a small shaft running the width of the reel assembly. It's only 3/16" or 1/4" in Dia.. That shaft should spin free as should one or two others. The levers and latches freeze up from lack of lubracation over the years. If the latch paw is frozen, you usually have a reel fail to spin, or lock as soon as you pull the handle. I hope this helps..
Gary
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Wow!
Thanks to all who responded to my problem.
I will take the reels out of the assembly and check things out.
BTW, its a 1088-1 machine, right to left and left to right, all bars with one 7 per reel, it takes up to 5 quarters.
I will try to solve this problem Saturday morning, since by the time I get home from work its dark here on Long Island.
Sunlight seems to provide the best light to work on the inside.
I will keep you all advised.
Many thanks again for the tips.
Is the information from Old Reno still available for me to download?
I haven't found it so far.
A very respectful Gooch
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I believe to access the down load section, you have to be a contributing member.
Gary
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Wow!
Thanks to all who responded to my problem.
I will take the reels out of the assembly and check things out.
BTW, its a 1088-1 machine, right to left and left to right, all bars with one 7 per reel, it takes up to 5 quarters.
A very respectful Gooch
Good luck with it - sorry if my early post in the thread led you astray. I took a shot and evidently it was off the mark. Glad we have others with experience here to be a guide.
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Gooch,
Here's a link to part 2 of troubleshooting that I posted a while back. I think somewhere around post #26 you will see the area that you might want to adjust. http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=19336.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=19336.0)
It sounds like you are getting kickoff too early, and you can adjust your L stop bracket (#26 at bottom right side) by moving it toward the front of the mech. On the floor I would often bend it carefully with pliers, although I will never admit that to anyone. (But then, when you've got 10 customer waiting calls you don't get picky) Or you can play around with the adjusting nut on the pump arm link.
Try to kick off the reel mech out of the machine by pushing on the pump arm with some vigor until it kicks.
Also, hold your clock fan after you kick off the reels, and see if the 1st reel stops much quicker than the other two. It might be dry.
Welcome aboard.
Donner/oldReno
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Progress it seems...
I took apart the reel mechanism, removed the reela and cleaned and lubed everything I can.
Filed off the rough edges on the cuts of first reel.
Put a new cup in the pump cylinder, since I have a pack of 4 left for doing the same thing to my 873 machine when it turned to a gummy tar.
Now I am attempting to adjust the stroke of the machine via the "E" and "G" nut.
I can't get the exact measurements as shown, the 1 & 11/16.
The measurement on the "J" bracket is right on.. 1 & 7/8.
This machine must be older as it does not have the rubber bumper on the "N" arm which is right ahead of the "J" bracket..
Question: Should I be turning the "E" nut towards the front of the machine or to the rear to get a better spin of the reels?
It only fails to kick all three of the reels only about once in every 12 or more pulls.
Whatever I should be doing, kindly let me know?
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Let me think here...
If the shaft gets longer, then it kicks sooner, or rather hits the L-stop bracket sooner.
(Therefor, the less threads showing on the END of the shaft, then the longer the shaft is.)
If I have more threads showing on the end of the shaft, then it will kick off later.
As I recall, basic settings are:
L-stop bracket should be even with the end of the reel mech metal.
Shaft normally has 3 and 1/2 turns of threads showing. Remember that there are two nuts there to deal with, one to change and one to snug it up. If you move the back one back, you must also move the front one back, too, to take out slop. If you move the front one forward, you have to also move the back one forward.
Make sure it kicks and spins ok OUT of the machine, before putting it back in and possibly locking up the handle.
If it does not mis-spin all that often, then consider just doing tiny little adjustments from time to time to eventually bring it back into good operation.
If you go and do major tweaking, you might get into trouble.
Make sure all parts of reel 1 kick and trip mechanisms are well lubed, and that your reel board wipers are not dry, and not too stiff hitting on the buttons. Wipe a little light oil on the buttons.
You can play the machine without the reels in, and might be able to see something amiss that way....
Any other input here appreciated....
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I have run across this situation quite often. Cleaning and lubing the linkages below the reels was where I fixed almost all the issues I had in that type of problem. OldReno is very right about fireing off the mech outside the machine with the reels out. You can easily see and part of the linkage that is sticky and lubrication is easy. Sounds like you are close to getting it right and it shouldnt take too much to get it right. I find that the problem with the first reel is almost always a lube issue. Rmember that these machines are almost always on in the casino which makes tyhe grease soft. But in home use, if the machine is not warm inside the grease (especially if its old grease) will be a little sticky. I do suggest the removal with PB Blaster and a nylon wore brush to remove as much old grease as possible. Only on a last resort, I use Mineral Spirits, but that strips everything of all lubricants so you need to relube it completely and well. I am looking forward to this machine to be running for you 100% in just a little time. :applause: :applause: :applause:
Dave F
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Well.. I tried to send some pictures, but for some reason they didn't go into the forum, neither did the post??
I must not be making the great God of the Internet pleased?
See if it works tonight?
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that's no 809 that's a 10?? thinking 1040 jpo
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If it is a 5 coin play machine, then the reel glass is wrong. If it is a 3 coin play, the reel glass could be right but the top glass is wrong. Top glass shows 5 line play and the reel glass shows 3 coin play. Something just aint right there. See if the Bally MFG plate is under the handle, it will list the model. Looks like it might be a Buy a Play machine 1088 if it is a 3 coin play machine..
Dave
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1088 has fruit
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Ok .... well is it a 5 or 3 coin machine?
Dave
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that's a good question only way to tell is see if it takes 3 or 5 coins
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that's no 809 that's a 10?? thinking 1040 jpo
I had one simular about a year ago, and mine was a 1090? From looking at my book it could be any thing fron 1088, 1089, 1090, 1096...Its a single line 5 coin multifier... I need to go back and look at the reels glass. did it say if it pays right to left and left to right? If it does then that would be a fruits reel glass.. Check for markings on the inside of the door or on from of the reels assembly for any numbers written in marker or pencel.. sommetimes there is a string tag inside the cabiner with information on it..
Gary
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I also see the model # sometimes on the wiper boards or written on the hopper.
Dave
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Hello:
The machine originally was a three quarter.
Someone modified the machine to now accept 5 quarters, but I guess they never changed the reel glass?
I think the machine was modified by a whiz of an electrical engineer?
The top glass shows each coin deposited, up to 5, changing the payout each time it bumps per coin inserted.
I also found out tonight that the power cord has a nasty bad spot in it where it goes under the back of the machine and into the cabinet.
Question: Does the machine have to have a polarized plug, (black hot wire to which fuse?) There are four fuse holders at the back of the cabinet. The two fuse holders closest to the right have the two AC input wires. There is the ground wire to the terminal for the ground.
I will take a couple of more pictures to show the wiring job someone did?
I am amazed that with all my tinkering, it still works. :banghead:
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I doubt that the slot machine was orginally a three coin model. Someone probably damaged the original play 1to 5 coin reel glass and replaced it with a 1to 3 coin glass.
Modifying the internal workings would be quite a task and probably not worth the effort, if it was even possible.
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I doubt that the slot machine was orginally a three coin model. Someone probably damaged the original play 1to 5 coin reel glass and replaced it with a 1to 3 coin glass.
Ok I didn't look close enought at the reel glass to see the play 1-3 coin insert above the coin head.. The other thing that tells us the reels glass isn't correct is that the Bar/7 machines didn't offer a left to right & right to left payout option as it shows over the reels. That is a glass off a fruit machine. So best bet it is a single line 5 coin multiplier..
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:I_agree_1:
I doubt that the slot machine was orginally a three coin model. Someone probably damaged the original play 1to 5 coin reel glass and replaced it with a 1to 3 coin glass.
Modifying the internal workings would be quite a task and probably not worth the effort, if it was even possible.
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I agree also, everything on it seems to match EXCEPT for the reel glass.
Someone broke it, and popped another one in there. It was close, but no cigar.
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Check for interference from the front door. I have had a similar problem, and found one of the lamp shields was loose, slightly hitting the spinning reel, causing it to slow down and set a tilt (E series machine). Even the slightest friction from any part on the front door adjacent to the reels can do that.
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Good observation thanks for sharing that.
We used to be sure that our lamp shields were painted black, especially in those wide-glass machines.
People would often press hard on the glass to hold the reels. Especially the center reel, when you would get a 7 on there or mixed bar, by pressing hard on the glass you could hold that symbol for several spins, and thus increase your odds of winning.
We would look for some of the black paint rubbed off, and you could see the shiny metal underneath the paint, an indicator someone was pressing the glass.
Once in awhile someone would press too hard and break the glass, and then take a quick hike out the door.
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Thanks for the history lesson. I would have never thought of trying to hold a reel by pushing on the glass.
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Like my first slot boss said, "There are 142 ways to cheat a Bally, and I know 156 of them."
There were rumors of some folks drilling the reel glass to insert a wire to hold the reels, but I never did see a drilled glass.
I did see plenty of drilled cases, however, mostly in the clock fan area where they would hold the fan, or near the B switches on the reel mech so that they could reset the payout counter after a large payoff, and get paid twice or even 3 or 4 times.
Every once in awhile you could hear a small palm held battery powered drill, and you know someone was up to no good.
They would drill the machine, and then leave until the next shift and then get at the machine. We always would check that area for tiny tiny drill holes, and then screw in a tapping screw on the inside to stop the wire from coming through. Also, the drillers would use a bit of keno crayon to camoflage the hole.
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Wow! These things should be in another thread dedicated to these stories. I bet there's lots to hear about...
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Yea that could be a very interesting thread. It seem that this bones been hijacked. I've seen some interesting shows on cheating Vegas on how the beat the early IGT Slots, but nothing in the EM Slots..
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A hand held drill could drill through the metal inner casing? That would undoubtedly make some noise. Wouldn't a security person or some other casino employee notice the activity?
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Are the stop index reels still available to purchase?
I think the left reel has tried to be fixed by what appears to be brazing on one of the cut out parts of the reel.
There are 12 symbols on the reel, 3 different bars and one 7.
If you know where I can get a replacement left reel stop index, I would appreciate it!
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There should be numbers stamped on it that would be needed to get you the replacement disk.
Gary
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I think that before you go into the changing of the index discs, you might want to make sure they are the issue. Pics will help us to determine that the machine has been alterd to that point. Please post the pics of the disks and the wiper boards. If the boards show signs of severe rewiring ... this could be the issue. We need to hope that any alteration is done correctly and the original wiring is intact. Check OldRenos logs on checking the wheel symbols with the index disks. These logs are like a bible to me and can give you the knowledge to fix almost any issues.
Dave F
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Dave:
The left reel is marked ST 14 5 , it has been repaired in a couple of places and round parts filed down to be pointed.
I can't send a picture because the web site errors out.
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sounds like someone added some cheats to the reel or reels
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You stumped me on this:
"sounds like someone added some cheats to the reel or reels"?
How is this accomplished and why?
I try and learn something every day, so this is the day for it.
Kindly explain?
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if they blocked any of the cuts on index wheel the reel won't stop there so it changes the odds , also will make it not spin right at times
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I found a cheat, known here in NY as a bug, on an 831 that I bought, fixed and sold. It was almost like 2 fender washers held together with a screw that prevented a player from getting a jackpot symbol on the last reel. I threw the bug away. I wish I would have kept it to post a picture for the group.
Ra
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Here's a cheat "bug" I found on one of my Jennings 400 machines. There were two of these, one on the left reel, one on the right. They lined up with the jackpot wins.
Two 8MB hotlinked images removed, resized, and uploaded via the NLG forum attachment tool due to folks on slower connections having trouble loading the post/page. -knagl
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Well a picture is worth a thousand words. That IS a bug for sure, Different species than the one that I saw but it will have the same effect. NO Jackpot. Your situation is interesting. All of the cuts on the reel disk look to be the same depth. The cuts on the Bally EM's are very different. Also I would bet that your game was operated on a site where the house was a crooked as the letter S. To have a bug on BOTH the first and last reel means the owner was a cheap skate.
Thanks for the pictures
Ra
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And here I thought the player of the slot machine would be the one to try and cheat?
So there is no way for the machine to hit a jackpot?
See, I did learn something.
Are you close to Long Island? I'm on the south shore side in Nassau County.
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The left reel had the blocker placed on the TRIPLE BAR symbol (you can see it would align with the window in that image) and the right reel had the blocker on the 7 (the only 7 on that reel). So, in the casino environment, the machine would NEVER hit on three triple-bars, nor three 7's. It'd slip right past which would give the illusion that the player "almost" hit.
I acquired three machines from the same casino, not sure of the casino name, but they were in operation in the late 70's and taken out around 1981 or so. Two of the three machines I bought had the same blockers installed on the same symbols.
The 400 series Jennings machine used TTL logic for its reel control, just before microprocessors became part of the design. So, cheating the reels went un-detected by the machine's electronics.
You can't do this with the microprocessor based machines though, since the logic dictates exactly where the reel will stop, and if it doesn't stop where it's expected, it'll set a TILT and shut down.
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The casinos which used those blockers must have been real cheapskates or just plain greedy! How often would a player hit three 7's anyway? Or three triple bars? The odds are so small that a win would look good to other players.
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really don't think any real casino would use them , they get checked by the casino commision alot
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My guess would be that the Jennings machines were on a cruise ship casino. Figuring, you're on the ship, you like to play, and where ya gonna run to?
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Gooch:
Sorry, your question slipped past me. I am in Rockland County. I grew up on Long Island though. Thanks to this group I have met some great folks. I am surprised to find more and more collectors in the NYC area. We should have a get together.
As far as the bugs, they were standard parts of the thousands of machines that operated in the back rooms of corner grocery stores all over the city. An OPERATOR had a ROUTE of about 5-10 stores with 2-3 slot machines each. Did not want to make too much noise or draw too much attention to the back room activity. The grocery owner got a small piece of the action while the operator, if you know what I mean, got the lions share of the profits. Many of these games have heavy hasps and burglar bars drilled into the cabinet to prevent the cheated and now poor player from helping him or herself. These bugged games were also VERY common as rental units at local fairs and fund raisers. If you ask me how I know so much about this underworld stuff. I will tell you that I read a lot. Happy healthy Holiday to all :-)
Ra
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Folks:
I am amazed how much information I have been provided with in so short a time being on here.
Rockland County isnpt that far away at all!
I guess you got the snow tonight, all we got was rain.
You can have my share f the snow.
Thank you all for helping me out, I will soon attempt to use my Dremel Tool and grind out the two bridges on the reel.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
The Gooch
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Dear Ramegoom,
PLEASE check your picture size as posted on Page 3 here.
Myself and some others cannot get on that page, and I suspect your pics are way too large.
Would you kindly shrink them, or pull them off for a day or two so that we can see if that is the problem or not?
Thanks
OldReno
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Ditto ... :Scratch-Head:
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Dear Ramegoom,
PLEASE check your picture size as posted on Page 3 here.
Myself and some others cannot get on that page, and I suspect your pics are way too large.
Ditto ... :Scratch-Head:
This issue has been resolved. Reply #40 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4153.msg22532#msg22532) by ramegoom had two 8 MB photos embedded in it, causing the page to load very slowly even on a fast internet connection. ramegoom, I removed the hotlinks of the images to your website, resized the pictures to a more web-friendly size, and then used the "Attachments and other options" section of the post/reply page to upload the smaller images to your post. You can hotlink to images you're hosting yourself in the future if you'd like, but for the sake of everyone trying to view them (and for your own server's bandwidth!) please resize them to a web-friendly file size first. Thanks!
As to the topic at hand, I have seen similar "stoppers" welded on to the payout teeth of some older mechanical machines, as well as some that were screwed on in place to prevent one or more of the reels from stopping on the jackpot symbol. A friend of mine told me the technical term for them, but it escapes me at the moment...
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THANK YOU KNAGL
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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:applause: :dancing_2: :applause: :dancing_2: :applause: :dancing_2: :hail: YEA ...thanks
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Update:
I removed the left reel and removed the 3 brazed "cheats" by grinding them out. I cleaned the reel up and deburred the reel and put the machine back together to try it out.
Lo and behold, all three reels work now.
The only major lingering issue is the hopper now empties itself when ever any win is made. The hopper just keeps spitting out quarters until it resets itself. It used to pay out properly. I checked the hopper and found the knife assy. a little bit loose and wobbly. Tightening the two hex head mounting screws fixed the quartersso they are lifting the roller like it should.
How do I attack the pay out problem? Is there any place in particular to start?
One issue goes away another pops up. Just like the Wack-a-mole game.
One other dumb question? It is talked about replacing the rubber disk with a pencil eraser. Where is this disk located on the hopper?
I can't seem to find it?
Thank you.
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check and see if wiper is stepping up as coins go under roller and make sure its a 25cent hopper
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The payout disk & wiper board assembly are usually a seperate unit. They are usually in the lower right rear corner, but I have seen some located in the top feature box. Make sure your hopper is counting every coin that passes under the roller. You can check the operation of the hoppers switch with a VOM set to ohms. You should see the switch open and close with every coin passing under the roller..
Gary
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Ladies and guys this machine has now got a new PROUD owner (me) who hopes to get it working in the near future. I had started a post but it's in the forum (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4558.0 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=4558.0)) so I thought I move over to this existing thread.
I have it accepting all 5 coins, handle works, reel spin and stop. Not sure if Winner Paid light actually light up on payout or not, I'll check Monday to see if bulb is bad/power to socket when Pays are hit. Problem: the hopper continues to run (runaway hopper) on every win. If I manually operate the coin out roller arm on the hopper it tilts the machine. The tilt only happens when the lower set of contacts make, if I operate the arm only enough to break the top set the hopper continues to run.
I have a missing wire to one terminal of a coil in the top box (see pic). The orange is 50v, if I connect Yellow (neutral) the coil does operate. Amechanic thinks he may have a feature unit similar to mine and trace the wire down.
I have other pictures if needed.
If anyone can/wants to help I could sure use it.
Thanks
Bob
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So does it run away with 1 coin played, or 5 coins played
A machine can pay fine on 1 coin, but runaway on more than one... When it kicks out coins, do they hit the coin out roller? Does the payboard step up at all?
Ooopps, sorry, I see there are more comments on this thread. Will check them so I'm not being redundant.
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Hopper does run away with 1 or more coins played.
Coins do contact roller and raise arm (I can raise the arm higher by hand and that's when it tilts, does not tilt when quarters activate roller arm)
Payboard does not step up
thanks for you help
Bob
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I went back and looked at hopper, there are 3 sets of contacts that are activated by coin out roller arm:
top set is NO
2nd set is NO
3rd set is NC (when this set opens machine tilts)
Any suggestions?
thanks
Bob
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Contacts on top right are open until coil is egaged one time (then they close)
contacts on left farthest from wheel is NO, closest to wheel NC, each time coin is engaged the close/open
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picture in neutral position:
horizontal contacts are closed until coil is engaged one time, then the open
vertical contacts are closed until coil is engaged 17 times
any other info/pics needed?
thanks
Bob
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With a coin fully under the roller (top dead center) do the switches all appear to be closing/opening correctly? Do any of the switches touch to case when you manually push the roller all the way down? Does a blade touch to a different blade which it is not supposed to?
Have you checked for shorts?
Be aware that NO SWITCH should ever be in contact with the metal of the machine. They are all supposed to be insulated from case.
If you find one that does touch, put some tape or heat shrink to isolate it.
You can use your VOM on ohms and clip one lead to case, and touch the other lead to all switches to see if they contact. They should not.
Also, you might want to put a piece of tape between the two switches that make it tilt, and try the payouts again.
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Thanks, I'll check for shorts etc soon, holidays are going toput a halt to working on it as much
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All of you guys
Bob
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I could not find any shorts in these switched (operated by coin out roller arm)
I did look again to make sure the and the top 2 sets are NO and close when quarters activate switch
The 3rd set (bottome set) are NC and open when lever arm is raised (as soon as this set opens machine tilts) Switch has Yellow to one lead and has Brown/orange & Brown/Gray to the other terminal.
Yellow is neutral so I'm guessing the 3rd set is dropping neutral to something, wouldn't think that would cause tilt.
Activating coin out roller arm does not advance the payout unit wheel.
again thanks
Bob
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Since the machine tilts, there is probably a tilt relay, likely in the top unit, and it COULD be that if you lose power to the tilt relay coil for X amount of time then it will de-energize and drop out, thus giving a tilt. I said, could be... For example, if a coin is stuck under the coin out roller you might want it to tilt, and a NC set of switches could accomplish that along with a cap and resister perhaps for timing. You might want to see if you can locate that coil, and also see if the wire colors to it match the wire colors that are NC on your coin out roller switches...
Never did work much with tilt relays, but they can in theory either be on to keep from tilting, or off to keep from tilting. Depends on how you want the circuit I would guess. Also you might want to look in top unit for some weight switches of 'slam' switches that also will control a tilt. Similar to what they had in pinballs I believe.
Keep at it.
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Mayber the coil in top box (see pic) tilt relay, there is a set of Orange (50v) wires to one terminal but no wires to the other terminal (center of picture, I've circled the wireless terminal). I can't find any loose wires laying around in that area. There are 2 Yellow wires (neutral) with an exposed solder joint, if I connect these the coil energizes.
What is I hold that NC set of contacts together and see if the payouts takes place?
Don't know if this sheds any light on this or not.
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Heck yes, experiment, the very best way to learn shit.
If your hopper payboard step up coil does not step at all (either every coin out for 1 played, or every 2 coins out for 2 played, etc.), then your hopper will run away guaranteed. The signal to step the payout stepup coil goes from the odds disc in top unit (where it decides if 1,2,3,4, or 5 coins is played), then through the appropriate X-disc (the 4 round wheels in top unit), and then finally down to the step up coil that moves the payboard. The signal or pulse from your roller switches go up to the top unit to go through the X-unit board via the x-unit coil and THEN go back down to the hopper payboard step up coil. A break anywhere there can cause runaway. I would try first, your odds disc, since it does runaway on all coins played as you say.
Read my section on checking for shorts, and also using jumpers. That will tell you how to test your step up coil.
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AFA the unknown coil in the top, you can trace the wires out from the switches and that may give a clue as to what it does.
OR, you can either shim the relay open (folded paper under coil armature), or rig it closed, and then play the machine.
If it blows fuses or gets hot real fast, then change it back, after noting results and sharing them with us.
Normally a relay like that does not have a yellow wire to the coil, it first goes through some kind of switch. Otherwise the coil would be on all the time since your yellow and your orange wires are the 50 volt system.
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coil on top might be a lockout coil for a hand pay jackpot that was disable , what the highest payout?
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For 7-7-7 and 5 coins top glass says 1000, above that if says $25000
there is a picture of the top glass on reply #12
thanks
Bob
Donner I'll give your suggestions a try, probably be after Christmas,
thanks Merry Christmas
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it might payout 1000 coins 5 x 200 coins hopper has a 200 pay on it with the x unit it could pay it out I,m betting at one time that game paid 2000 coin jackpot and was changed to 1000 coin, so it won't need a lockout
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Generally the relays (coil with its switches) in the top unit are:
Odds reset relay (makes odds disc reset by pulsing reset solenoid) A solenoid is a coil with a hole and plunger in it. Takes more power to run than a simple relay.
Odds step up relay (works on 2nd through 5th coins in) which pulses the odds step up solenoid.
Jackpot lockup relay (#1) disables all X-units except X-2 and forces a 200 coin payout. (Generally true)
JPLU relay (#2) same thing as #1, but on different jackpot.
There are often others, and mostly they are marked somewhere.
You can manually push on the armatures of each of your relays with machine on, and you will see what they each do.
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@BBS, casinos did not like machines to payout 1000 coins at a pop. Most Ballys were set up to drop 200 coins when jackpot was 400 or more. Some would payout the full 400, but that's mostly for mixed bar machines with 5 coin capability.
I will admit tho', that a machine paying out 1,000 or 2,000 coins would attract a lot of customer attention, but then so did the bells and flashing lights.
Typical JP system uses the x2 multiplier, and bypasses the other selected multiplier, which is, I think part of the function of the Jackpot Lockup coil. It forces the X2, and kills the coin lockout coil so that customer cannot insert a coin and 'accidentally' play off his JP.
The circuit to bypass the JPLU, is the reset key switch (NO) on the side of machine, because, otherwise, it would be a Catch 22 situation, and attendant could not then let customer play off the win.
Hey, happy holydays, and Merry Christmas to you all....
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Been a little under the weather and mixed in with the holidays so I haven't made any attempts to repair. Hopefully I can get back on it next week.
Thanks again for all the help/suggestions, it's really appreicated.
Bob
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I'm attaching a Bally Manual 6000 from 1979. Due to size it will be in 5 downloads. Hopefully some one on the site can download them, combine into one file and upload to site.
Also I would like to find schematics for e/m's if any one can has them.
thanks
Bob
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more downloads
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last section
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I mailed you the Bally manual Saturday, you should have it by Wednesday or Thursday of this week.