New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: capt7310 on March 05, 2017, 07:52:05 AM
-
OK I got my Bally's 955 back from a friend who was trying to help me find this short and NG. So I'm back to the group. I've taken several standing eight counts and I'm one punch away from a knockout. Jon has been most gracious to answer my PM's and phone calls but I know he's still hurting from his fall and other than taking the road trip to his house 12 hrs away I figured I'd give him a break ( no pun intended).
I've check and recheck and can't find out why I keep blowing the 8 amp fuse leading to the orange wires. I cut the 3 orange wires from the fuse and the 2 orange wires with the red tracer which engage the coin mech when their connected the fuse blows and disconnected and it's just the orange wire fuse is OK.
I've been trying to trace all the wires and can't find anything. I've un done the total wire harness to see if there is a broken or chaffed wire and can't find anything. I've put a meter on all the relays and solenoids and get readings from 8-48. If the hopper is in without the reels nothing happens and visa versa with the reels but when both are in the fuse pops. So just reaching out again to the group to give it one more shot then it's off to JON'S house.
-
Sorry wrong pic of the machine, that's another story.
First picture deleted. - mod
-
orange wires are your 50v - did you check ALL your coils and sealed relay to see if any are shorted or burnt? i found that the insulator on some of switches (A B coin relay etc) wears away and then with the metal exposed that can cause a short. Another way to isolate a short in the reel or hopper using a multimeter on continuity check - with unit of of machine - attach one lead of the meter to the frame of the reel mech and with the other lead check each pin on the beuaplugs - if you get a hit then you have found the wire that is shorted.
-
When you say a hit.... the meter will show or do what. I am using a Fluke meter.
-
continuity - should show zero
-
OK GOS thanks I'll try some more...should I do the same with the hopper also..
-
Need some more clarity, when I put one lead of the meter into the orange wire coming off the fuse and touch anywhere on the metal parts of the machine the meter sounds. Does that make any sense. When I check the continuity off the beau plugs there was no readings and that's on the reels and hopper.
-
Have you checked the coil located behind the coin mech? Also have you removed the transformer and checks behind it? I think if your meters beeping when attached to the orange wire and touching the cabinet metal, that's indicating the short..
-
Yes I took the orange wires off the coil behind the coin mech and it still popped the fuse. The first transformer I had with the machine went up in smoke because the previous owner knew of a short and was trying to find it and over fused it with a 20 amp and before I realized it the transformer was smoking. Jon shipped me out another one and now it's back to trial and error..
-
Have you had the beau plugs for the reels out to check for the short there? I've seen those pins in the female plugs pushed out over half way and the wires jammed up against the back cabinets wall. I've so found broken off wires just laying back there too. Id take the reel shelf loose or off myself and check those plugs closely since you say your meters beeping when you touch the Orange fuse wire and the cabinet.
-
Amechanic, did that not once but several times check the beau plugs on both male and female side. I'm going to strip down the metal plate that holds the reels and remove the beau plugs again and check the fuse holder. I was just checking it again and with the one end of the meter wire into the orange wire that's coming out fuse anywhere I touch the machines metal the meter sounds and that's without the reels and hopper in. I can touch the outside of the cabinet door and the meter will sound. So as Jon has also said that orange wire is shorting somewhere and I'm not great with the electrical end but I'm getting there, and I do believe that the orange wire is shorting somewhere.
When I power it up the coin mech engages some of the lights on the outside light up the fluorescent light above the reels dosen't light (and I did replace it ) up, the belly glass lights up, but as soon as I put the reels and hopper in together the fuse blows.
-
Hello Capt,
Seems like the reels or hopper is completing a circuit to ground causing a short circuit.
As you stated everything is fine until the units are reinstalled.
With the units out of the machine eliminate them by connecting one meter lead to a solid orange wire on that particular unit. Then touch the other lead [size=78%]to any metal part of that unit. There should be NO reading or beep. A reading or beep indicates the Orange wire is in contact with the unit frame.[/size]
[size=78%] But it wouldn't necessarily be the orange wire. The orange could be feeding another wire that is making contact to the unit frame. When these units are reinstalled they complete circuits to the rest of the machine i.e. the door, handle release etc.[/size]
So testing them for a short will help narrow the search. If they pass, I would reinsert them one at a time and test for shorting. Also try alternating the units when you put them back in testing each time one is reinserted.
Really get a kick when the computer uses its artificial intelligence and rotates the photos 90°.
Going to crop the photo and upload to see if that will make a difference.
Apparently the computer likes the new size photo.
-
Hi Dave, and yes when I put the hopper or reels back in and alternate them nothing happens the fuse does not pop it only happens when both are in together.
I disconnected the 2 orange wires with the red tracer coming from the fuse holder to the molex connector that activate the coin mech and reinstalled the units and the fuse did not pop.
I tried to trace those wires and then realized that the solid orange was supplying the power to those wires because out of the fuse holder there are 3 wires a solid orange and the 2 orange with the red tracer. So I'm back to the orange wire.
Now if they both pass and I reinstall each unit I would now test the orange wire and touch the the body and see if it beeps and if it does you're saying that would possibly indicate the short in either one of the units. I have gone over each unit and they are very clean and and really show no wear, which indicates to me that this short has been around for awhile and the guy who owned the machine just put the machine away for years until I got it.
I have undone the wire harness pretty much and everything looks fine, again my electrical skills are not great but getting better and I feel that the problem exists somewhere off that fuse holder and yes it would because that's where the power is coming from.
I'll keep trying
-
Hello Paul,
Okay checked out your photos, the machine is in great shape. Must of been sitting as no one could find the short like you said.
Got a machine the same way, been sitting for years due to a short. Luckily I found it fairly soon by moving the wire harness at the door jam.
Did the hopper and reel mechanisms check out okay?
I see you have unwrapped all the wires WOW. I'm sure you have inspected them for exposed copper. There is a higher probability of a short where wire is in close or rubbing the metal cabinet.
Might want to check all the coils for the paper and rubber insulators between the coil and its mounting bracket.
Any metal debris, solder, washers, wire strands etc that might of fallen into the contacts or Beau plug.
If the machine has plastic cube relays, try pulling them to see what happens. If the machine stays up and running then replace one at a time.
This may narrow the search.
Keep us posted on the situation.
I posted a few photos of the 1088 that had a short at the door jam. Same thing really clean.
Instead of trying to tape up the exposed wire I grafted a slice of insulation over the copper with crazy glue then wrapped them up.
-
Hi Dave I checked all the relays and solenoids and don't get any reading less than 6.9. Again everything looks new meaning the hopper and reels all the wires look clean this is where I'm at now besides a headache checking everything.
I can't see anything and as you see in the pics I've ripped almost everything apart.
-
Paul,
You really have it opened up.
Just for kicks remove the terminal block on the back of the machine.
Someone might have put a longer screw all the way through. It seem unlikely, but it wouldn't hurt to look.
With the machine dismantled as far as you have it everything is pretty well isolated.
Machine UNPLUGGED Starting at the transformer hook one side of the meter to the orange wire lug then touch the other side to the bare metal case. Should be no reading, do the same with the yellow. Then check all orange and yellow wires at there solder / terminate points in that part of the machine. Then work your way up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would probably do this with every wire in the machine, since everything is so accessible at this point.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In theory there should be no continuity to the case.
----------------------------------------------------------
Don't need to install hopper or reels, just clip a wire from the unit to the case. Then test all wires for no continuity to the case.
Hopefully this will narrow down the location.
See cheap tester, it makes it a little easier to check continuity.
-
Hi Dave yeah I took the terminal block off thinking the same or a washer in hopes of a miracle but there was nothing. The only thing that was on that terminal block when I got it was a black jumper wire from the yellow wire with the red tracer to the thin yellow and that didn't do anything. I will sometime today follow your direction and give it a another going over.
I have a close bud of mine who's pretty good with troubleshooting and he's going to give me some of his time today and take a look. If that fails then I'm going to send it off to Jon for an early Christmas gift and he can have it I know he likes the Low Boys.
-
if you put your meter on orange then to the frame work what is the value of your reading?
-
Hello Paul,
Hang in there, check all the wires where they terminate.
Just hook one side of the meter to the case and touch the other lead to Beau plug pins, Molex plugs pins, coils, contacts and switches etc.
-
From the transformer the orange to the case beeps and also with the yellow beeps my readings go from 2.6,,4.3 then the meter shows OL. Thanks again for all the help I'll start again tommorow and keep all posted.
-
Nothing should beep to case. Circuits are isolated from case and ground.
Try unplugging your door & test again.
-
Unplugged everything from the door and still beeping
-
Had a friend of mine who's pretty knowledgably with wiring and relays and his was here for almost 2 hrs and could not isolate the orange wire to find the short. He had to give it a break and we'll try again later.
-
not sure where you got to but you`ve stripped it down this much I would start again at the beginning
test orange wire from transformer to fuse first, then test each wire from the 50v through
if you have disconnected door removed reels and hopper then the fault must lay in the cabinet
you might have to disconnect the odd wire sometimes to get a true reading
also if your meter is beeping indicating continuity check again the ohm reading
also recognise what ohms you have 1 ohm or less dead short measure the resisitance of your coils sometimes you might be reading through 1
-
Speaking of ohms, check the payout relay coil resistors for resistance. Especially the 470 ohm ceramic resistor and the 8200 ohm resistor. These resistor are the only thing between the yellow and orange wire.
If one is at fault, the current could possibly exceed the fuse limit. Explaining why the transformer was cooking and the machines was over fused.
Thought this doesn't explain why you have a reading at the transformer if the hopper is out of the machine.
Paul, wish I lived closer, I would really enjoy digging into this situation!
Dave
-
Yes I wish I was close to you guys also. So here is where I'm at (see pics). I have traced and retraced I've metered the orange wires god only knows how many times and the yellow, I've disconnected and reconnected unsoldered and resoldered and everything I touch beeps. If I could just find someone with a 955 and switch the hoppers and reels and see if anything happens I least I know it's not them which (I think it's not)
I'm going to clean up the wires today with some zip ties because I found nothing in them and as I've said everything looks clean and new so I do believe this was an issue many years back and the previous owner just let it sit.
I have tried to isolate any section to narrow it down but nothing. 2 guys that do wiring and 1 that does work on theses machines tapped out on me.
It's snowing like crazy here now so I'll put in more time. Unless I make a road trip I might have to give it a break and come back later. Again thanks all for the help.
-
I am going to change my mind having re read your posts there cant be a short to the cabinet as when you have the reels and hopper out the fuse dose not blow the fuse only pops when you have both reel and hopper in together
if it was me I would with the power off install the reels only and test from the orange wire to cabinet and to the reels but you want to be looking at the ohms reading
remove reels install hopper do the same again
and lastly install reels and hopper together test to metal work again note readings
do they change at all?
-
Take a break from it for awhile and tie wrap the looms, good idea.
With the reels and hopper out, the machine is pretty much isolated wiring wise.
It's only when there installed many of the circuits are completed.
This is when the fuse does its job.
-
Just a thought, but we used to put higher rated fuses in and turn the unit on just long enough to see what heated up. Most times it helped identify the problem circuit, sometimes at the expense of replacing a couple additional parts, or it would occasionally reveal a motor going bad and drawing to many amps by way of the fuse not blowing but the motor either running at the higher amps or just not working. If you get really frustrated, this might be an option for you
-
Yellow 30 wire is common between 50v orange & 6v blue.
6v shorts can affect 50v side.
All v must be isolated from case
Some operators used to screw the 70 wire to case at the lockout coil on door to purposely build in half a short
This was in case someone drilled machine, & would blow fuses.
Look for any soldering or wiring in machine that appears 'new'.
-
Just a thought, but we used to put higher rated fuses in and turn the unit on just long enough to see what heated up. Most times it helped identify the problem circuit, sometimes at the expense of replacing a couple additional parts, or it would occasionally reveal a motor going bad and drawing to many amps by way of the fuse not blowing but the motor either running at the higher amps or just not working. If you get really frustrated, this might be an option for you
The problem with this is that the Bally EM does not have but a hopper motor and the safety timer. When over fused this causes the transformer to heat up and have a melt down. I have been reading and thinking quietly. Have your carefull inspected the relays and blade switches? Some of these have an insulator strip between contacts.. I'm wondering if one of these strips have broken off leaving you with a dead short. It could be possible that someone rebuild a switch, and forgot one or put it back together in a reverse order? Heck it could be a simple as someone reversed wires on a set of contacts? As for trying to swap your reels and hopper with another 955, that might not work either.. I've seen where a hopper or reels won't work in a different machine, because they are wired differently.
Have you taken and mapped out the beau plugs by color and location, then compaired both the male and female plugs are wired the same, color by color? It's possible a plugs wired wrong.. I know how hard it is to replace them. It wouldn't take much to cross a wire?
Gary
-
I put my meter on a transformer just to compare readings and to double check that there is some resistance.
Yellow to orange 2.1 on the 200 ohm setting and 1.5 on the yellow to blue wire.
So the reading you got across the two wire is to be expected.
Posted a photo of the ceramic resistor on the hopper payout coil. Got a reading around 80.0 while still connected.
The smaller resistor I didn't get any reading. That one is connected to a solid yellow wire and one side of the ceramic resistor.
The other side of the ceramic resistor is connected to the orange wire.
Reason I posted this if the ceramic resistor is faulty there is a possibility enough current is flowing from the yellow to the orange to blow the fuse.
This is an untested theory on my part, but something to check out and eliminate.
Also like what Gary said about insulators between contacts.
-
I did try and up the amp fuse but as Gary said within less than a minute the transformer was hot and I'd hate to call Jon and ask for another transformer I think he would shot me.
I cleaned up all the wire harness with the tie wraps and I will check again the ceramic res and I'll try to see if I can get to the wires once the reels and hopper are installed a little tough to get behind.
There is what appears to be an aftermarket on/off toggle switch thought that might be the problem because with the machine plugged in and the toggle in the off position I touched the white wire at the post and got zapped I put the meter on it and it was 120v.
I will take some meter readings at different places and post them so everyone can get an idea of what I'm dealing with and maybe help.
Thanks Paul
-
I had one EM before that someone removed the jackpot reset lock and installed a on/off toggle switch. I was having a problem with getting shocked, so I ended out rewiring the power plug back to stock setup. I would remove it if it were mine.
-
the short is before your payout relay the payout relay is only energised on a win (I think)
-
Mark, the payout relay in the hopper. If possible can you give me a pic. I am checking the reel pack and hopper right now.
I'm going to send some pics of my ohm readings. but I'm trying anything to isolate this problem if possible.
Anything to try I'm doing.
Thanks Paul
-
Dave just took some reading off the transformer and the orange to the yellow 0.8 and the yellow to blue 0.2 .I took a reading of the hopper to the ceramic res see pic.
-
Paul,
Looks to be okay, same reading I got, but my meter was on a smaller scale and got 80.0 + / - a few.
Note to get a true reading one side of the resister should be disconnected, but I think you're good.
Send some close ups of the hopper and reel switches. Maybe someone will spot something.
-
Dave heres what I got very frustrating. I took a bunch more pics and a pic of the switch that Amechanic said to remove which I will and hook up to the fuse block. Missed the add on switch
-
ok capt been out and measured across my transformer on 929
yellow to orange 0.8ohms yellow to blue is open circuit (meg ohms) yours is 0.2 (short circuit)
as reno pointed out yellow is common for both circuits maybe hes right and the fault is on the 6v circuit
-
Mark you better go recheck yellow to Blue
-
Funny you should say that but last night I thought he same. I went to yellow wires now and I'm now looking for any issues with those wires. I removed all the bulbs and checked the sockets and wires to the posts. So with the pending snowstorm on the way I'll have plenty of time to continue this adventure.
Nice to hear from Jon. Hope your feeling better I'll call you later
Thanks Paul
-
So I think it's the hopper here maybe why. I started to test the yellow wires on the hopper and the relays again.the payout relay was only showing 5.9 ohms so...............
With the toggle switch for power in the OFF position I put the hopper in and the power to the door and coin mech came on.....and the toggle switch is in the OFF position.
I removed the hopper everything went dead and now I flip on the toggle switch to the ON position without the hopper and everything went on placed the hopper in and everything still stayed on...placed the reels in and the fuse popped with the hopper in.
What's the thoughts other than an exorcism ...
-
Okay, making some progress. Here is how to narrow this down by the process of elimination.
It's going to be a little time consuming, but it might reveal a suspect right away.
The payout relay on the hopper maybe the easiest place to start.
Using copy paper, make some strips that will lay between the contacts.
Big enough to cover the two contacts on each horizontal row and wide enough not to fall out.
Insulate all the contacts with the paper. Replace mechanisms and flip switch in the same sequence.
If the fuse doesn't pop, start removing the paper one row at a time until it does.
In theory this should narrow down the fault.
The same elimination process can be done with the reel mechanism A - B - C switches
Just have to be a little creative on how to keep the paper between the vertical contacts.
-
Thank Dave that sounds great and I'll try that with the other relay contacts also ,,if the payout comes up a bust.. I'll get to it sometime tommorow or the next day and keep you posted.
-
Paul,
The payout relay on the hopper and the coin relay on the reel mechanism would be good starting points.
Keep us posted on your progress, will be courious to know what you find.
****************** NOTE of CAUTION **********************
When obstructing the normal path of electricity is a machine. There is a possibility that the current may want to take an alternative route. So use extreme caution when touching a machine while it is turned on.
-
Paul,
I realize some of the contacts may be in the open position. But I would isolate them all just to have 100%
Process of elimination. Ruling out any possibility of a malfunction or piece of debris etc. If the fuse still blows out at least the switches were not the problem.
-
Dave,
Obviously once I isolate all the contacts I will place the hopper in and power it up. Then remove each paper 1 at a time and keep pulling the hopper in and out to test each contact correct.
I will do this for all the contacts in the hopper. If I come up with no issues then I will move onto the reel bundle and apply the same right.
I will keep all posted.
-
Paul,
This post is a little mixed up as I thought of something to try before Isolating the Reels and Hopper.
Read through it and hopefully it will make sense.
Yes, if the contacts are isolated the machine will not recognize the hopper and or reels.
When you pull the papers one at a time it should reveal the problem area. (In Theory)
Not sure which would be the best to start with the reels, hopper or both.
The reels kind of control the machine, coin in and payout wise. It tells the hopper when to pay, so the hopper is sitting idle until a payout.
With the machines short condition its going to be a coin toss where to start. Might isolate both reels and hopper, if the fuse still blows.
It may be a mechanical situation when inserting the reels or hopper.
**********************TRY THIS FIRST, before the isolation process.**********************************
Try pushing the reels and hopper in slowly until the beau plug first make contact. If the fuse doesn't blow.
Then ease them in the rest of the way. There is a possibility that a wire is moving and causing the short.
If the fuse blows as you push them in further it could be a wire shorting.
If this doesn't pan out, then try the isolation process.
-
A most excellent way to find shorts is to clip one lead of your meter (on ohms) to the frame of your subunit and then touch the other lead to each & every switch & contact on the unit. You can also slowly rake the probe accross your male beau plug pins.
At no time should you get a reading or continuity beep. The bally is designed to have all circuits isolated from case.
If you can't find it in subunits then it's in the cabinet, either case itself or the door. If so then unplug door to further isolate it.
I'm working on a short in a 5l xx machine now, that i suspect is in top unit.
Always look for 'new' added wiring as a first cause. Hope that helps
-
Tried the paper method and on the slow push in it pop the fuse. But is this strange or normal After the fuse blew I put a meter on the hopper and it showed 120v now here's what's crazy. I touched the top contact of the payout relay and the hopper started spinning ( with a blown fuse).
Now with the blown fuse, I started touching the case and all the metal parts and the meter beep.
-
Making progress!
Sounds like the fuse is bypassed at some point or a crossed wire.
Can you post a photo of the 110 volt wires coming into the machine including the fuse holders.
-
I keep going back to the on/off switch that is wired into that machine.. Like I said before, I received a EM years back that someone had removed the reset lock and wired in a on/off toggle switch.. I had to remove that switch and rewire the power cord, because I was getting shocked.. If I remember correct, they had put the on/off switch on the common wire of the power cord only.. They didn't split both the hot, and common wires.. I would consider trying to wire your machine back to it's normal state...
Gary
-
Paul,
I see the meter reading in photo 2. Wow, pull all the fuses, curious to see if you still get that reading from the contacts to the hopper frame.
Also looked at an earlier photo of the fuse holder and the power cord. It wasn't real clear, but it appeared the cord did not go directly to the fuse holders. Or where the ground was connected.
If you get a chance post a close up of that area.
Try Mr. Reno's suggestion, clip one side of the meter to the case or unit frame and skip the other end over every exposed beau plug pin, contact blades and coil connection. See if you get a beep. Should be no beep.
I imagine this was a big safety concern as not to fry any customers while they were on a machine!
I do this with the little light tester when tracing out wires, works great and it's easy to do.
-
Dave,
Yes WOW, I removed all the fuses and the switch in the off position put the hopper in I could hear the machine with a slight hum. Put the meter on and got 120.4v. Removed 3 fuses looking left to rt at the fuse block no power put the hopper in fuse blew. First fuse out again looking left to rt put hopper in fuse blew.
I can take a screwdriver place it on the contact from the payout relay with a blown fuse and the power switch off and the hopper will spin.
I have only one wire on the last fuse which is black wire and the 3rd from left to rt has 2 wires, a red wire and the other is a white wire with a blue tracer the 2nd fuse is 1 solid orange and 2 orange with a red tracer and the first is blue wires.
I'm ready to remove the whole fuse block and start over.
-
Dave
Just saw your post is it possible that the fuse block is wired wrong from your pic. I think you have a 3 block fuse panel while mine is 4.
Always hoping for that simply find. I know Jon had mentioned several times that it's going to be right there and had did I miss that. LMK
-
Paul,
Wiring doesn't look right on the fuses. See attached photo.
The other side of the black 110 fuse has the White Blue wire.
Same wire that goes to the payout relay to run hopper motor I believe.
White neutral 110 volt wire connects to red. Check the red wire on that fuse to see if it leads to the service outlet top left near the hinge or right rear above fuses. If you get a beep from that red wire to one side of the service outlet, Then that is a good indication it should be connected to the white neutral.
The other two fuses protect the 6 volt blue and 50 volt orange.
Need to sort out the wiring on your fuses.
-
What is the White cord wire connected to?
Looks like you need to move the white blue wire over to the right fuse holder with the black wire.
If the red checks out, then most likely should be connected to the white neutral wire.
The other 2 fuses look right, but I'll take another look at your photos.
-
Does it only blow fuse when there is a pay?
-
Dave,
The white wire coming off the power cord is connected to one white lead off the molex connector and a white jumper off the on/off switch.The red is connected to the black wires.
-
These 3 pics are my fuse block in my 955 Lowboy. It the best I can do without removing the hoppers beau plug. I only have 3 fuses.
-
Old Reno,
Have never gotten to any payouts. Only thing that's paid out is about 25 fuses that have fried.
-
Amechanic,
You and Dave have both given me pics of your fuse blocks and wire setup and I'm going to rewire as per you and Dave and eliminate that last fuse with the one black wire.
Afterall I have torn these wire apart and nothing and it's possible that the guy who owned it tried to rig something to get it work and got all messed up and left it for years.
So I will give it a try. TY
-
Paul,
Saw the last trio of photos.
It appears the black bypassed the fuse holder and was connected to a few wires.
Best bet to return the wiring back to its stock location.
Black through the 120 v fuse with the white blue tracer on the other side of that fuse.
Find the red wire that operates the service outlet top left corner above the hinge. These wire may be black and white at this point.
Do this by connecting a lead to the red and probe both sides of the outlet. If it doesn't read, probe a white wire on a fluorescent lamp transformer. If that doesn't read, reverse the process, make a positive connect on a sold white wire on a fluorescent lamp transformer / starter then probe wires near the fuse holder.
If it checks out, that wire connects to the white wire. The addons switch should be bypassed.
Proceed with caution stand back and plug the machine in.
-
I would get the wiring diagram and trace the power wires from the plug to their end point to verify that the machine is properly wired.
Looks to me like someone tried to do a hack job on the wiring.
-
Call me in the morning after 10 been up all night with a sore back I will go down Monday or Tuesday and get one of my 955 out of storage and bring it home we will take lots of pictures and see what is going on with the wiring I know they do not wire like every other early machine they're a little different call me on the 989 number
-
Hey Jon, GREAT to hear from you I will call you later. I only have your one number if you want text me the 989 #
I started to remove the fuse block and rewire.... as Amechanic and Dave both agree the wiring situation looks pretty screwed up and I think the guy I bought it from knew that and tried to fix this nightmare then bailed out. Call you later
-
Paul,
I have a question about the power cord.
Is the plug and cord a one piece molded together type?
OR has the plug been added to the power cord.
IF the plug was added on, then meter the wires to be sure the black and white are on the correct lugs.
Also that the ground is connected.
You'll have to double check this, but I believe the black goes on the smaller lug on the left side if you are looking straight into the three prongs.
BUT double check this as I'm relying on my memory, so it's questionable.
-
Hey Dave,
Yes the plug was added, the old molded plug with the cord was missing the ground pin so I replaced the plug and the white wire is to the silver screw and the black wire is to the brass screw and of course green to green screw.
I put the meter on black plug and black inside the black wires and it sounded continuity.
-
Great,
I was a little concerned after seeing the fuse situation.
Looks like Jon is going to send photos for you to compare.
Good idea wouldn't hurt to be sure.
Out hiking this morning. This is a sight not seen very often in my part of the city.
-
Very nice!!!! Does he fix slots
-
Just a quick update...Everyone has been very helpful so I want to let you know the progress with this machine.
Spoke with Jon the other day and of course with his one on one help we have narrowed it down we think to one molex connector on the door. With all the four connectors disconnected and one by one reconnected the second connector from the top down when connected it sparked and blew the fuse.
So now I have to trace those wires being the yellow and orange we think it may be a bulb socket. I did remove the entire fluorescent light assy and then reconnected and the fuse popped so that's been eliminated.
I'll be back in touch with Jon in a few don't want to punish him too much he's still kinda sore. But I will keep all posted and hopefully this short will be found.
-
What is this grey wire for, (see pic).. Does not look to be soldered? Have you tried to plug the door in with the relays unplugged that are behind that mounting plate?
-
Gary,
That wire I think came off the Service Button.It's from a 4 pin connector all gray wires with tracers that lead up to that button. I haven't unplugged those relays yet but I did find a wire off so I will check that also
-
Guess it helps if I remember to attach the picture.. :duh:
-
Paul,
Did Jon say anything about the fuse wiring? Or has that been corrected?
As I would be a little concerned that the hopper was running without a fuse for safety.
Will the machine operate with that one molex plug, unplugged
-
Dave,
Again very strange with that 2nd plug unplugged and I click down the micro switch from the coin mech the winning bell sounds and the relay for the arm activates allowing me to pull down on the handle and the bell stops ringing.
As far as the fuse situation Jon will look at his 955 and let me know
-
So the fuses are in the plug is unplugged. The handle release activates, but the bell sounds.
Does it ring every time you push the micro switch?
Will the machine make a complete cycle and be ready for the next coin?
-
Dave,
Yes the fuses are in and the second molex connector from the top down is disconnected. It will take 1 quarter through the micro switch the bell will ring the handle will activate.
It will only do that one cycle then no other coin can pass through and the handle is locked.
-
Interesting, that the bell rings. Unless someone got creative with the wiring so the bell would ring with every coin drop. Looking at the picture of the fuses. I see the red wire coupled with the white/blue on the fuse.
Wouldn't be hard to remove the red to see what happen with it disconnected. Solid red might be the bell wire.
-
Be careful, 10 wire is 120V going to one side of transformer primary. The 10-1 wire however is a 6v bell wire...!!!
-
That picture of the fuses, is that current? The red wire looks to not be soldered, but burnt like it's been hot.. The 4th fuse holder looks like it only has one wire connected, The black wire...
-
I reposted Pauls photo of the fuses in the machine that has the short.
When I first saw it, I could see nothing looked right.
He is waiting for a photo with the correct wire set up. ID tag #955
This is what I sent him, see photo. Typical wiring black to white/blue, oranges and blues together with the white going to red. Which is the neutral for the service outlet and fluorescent lamps
-
Gary,
In my pic IMG 3043 that's the wire setup from my fuse block. The red wire is connected to all the black wires and comes off the fuse block which is connected to the white wire with the blue tracer pic IMG 3048 the black you see on the wires I used electrical liquid tape thinking it would help nothing got hot.
Jon is going to send me another pic of his 955 fuse setup. But in the meantime I'm going to remove that add on aftermarket switch and rewire and see what's happens..
-
Any thoughts as to why I have a 4 fuse holder and everyone else has a 3 fuse holder. I'm going to eliminate the last one the lone black wire and hook up to the white with the blue tracer and see what happens...........
-
Paul,
This fuse holder in the first photo is from a newer machine 1979.
It has a fuse for the white wire. Its possible that someone added a later type holder to your machine or it came that way.
The extra fuse in this case is added protection, as if anything went wrong with the wiring the machine was completely covered.
I would wire the machine as in the second photo.
The white wire usually connects to a solid red wire which leads to the transformer and one side of the utility outlet.
-
Dave,,
When looking at the fuse holder and going left to right the 3rd fuse is going to have the solid white off the molex connector and the white with the blue tracer and the black from the outlet cord
The 4th fuse is going to have the red and black off the molex connector and the white from the outlet cord.
Is that correct in what I'm seeing and going to do.
-
Paul,
Just got back from lunch in downtown Los Angeles.
First leave the blues and oranges where they are.
Disconnect all the wires from the two left fuse holders. Then disconnect the power B&W power cord leads wherever they go.
Now the loose red wire needs to be traced, it should go to one side of the utility outlet in the machine and a terminal on the transformer.
This will determine if it is the 110 ac neutral wire. If so, connect it directly to the 110 ac white wire.
Also check white wire that was also connected to the fuse with the red. They both may be connected to the neutral
Most the time its the red wire that goes to the 110 ac primary white neutral.
When this is sorted out.
Connect the 110 primary cord black wire directly to the last fuse holder.
On the other side of that same fuse holder connect the White/blue tracer.
Now the White 110 primary cord wire is connected directly to the wire that was was determined to be the neutral in the machine.
Most likely the Red wire that was removed from the fuse holder, but could be the white as we don't know what modification where done in the past.
Check the fuses, stand back and plug the machine in. In theory if the machine is wired as it came from Bally, it should light up and play.
Minus any short that still may exist or incorrect wiring after the fuses.
Try the above and hopefully it will work or lead you to the next unsolved mystery.
-
Dave,
Will start on it today and try some more. I'll keep my fingers crossed and maybe this will be it.
PS hope lunch was good....Maybe because of my profession I don't like having a DHL van in front of the building I'm eating in C:-)
-
That and any back packs just laying around. It was a good experience in the city, nice to visit once in awhile.
But needed to be in full alert mode.
-
Back from vacation....Ok I know everyone is excited to see the saga continue ready for this... Switched up the wires on the fuse block as per the 2JPG photo and when the orange wires off the fuse block use to blow the fuse, now the fuse 3rd from the left fuse blows which is the white/blue and black.
I rewired as per the 4JPG photo and still the 3rd fuse blows.
I removed the on/off toggle don't know if that had any effect... I unplugged the molex connector at the timer and the entire machine shut down when I plugged it back in I accidently touched the brass connector and got a little jolt.
The fuse blows with a bright spark and the glass is black so it's a hot spark.
I unplugged the one molex connector that I thought was given me the problem that went to the orange wires off the fuse and when I plugged it back in it didn't pop. Now it's the white/blue and black.
I replaced the outlet plug at the wire.... is it possible that the wire itself could be bad that there maybe a break in the wire and it's inside the casing..
-
Great that you got away for awhile!
This machine would be wonderful to work!
There is a possibility the cord in faulty.
Chech each color against the other.
-
How is this machine coming Paul
-
Hey Jon nice to hear from you.. I gave the machine to a guy in the dept that fixes radio's he said he was up for the challenge.
He has had it for a week and I haven't heard from him. But my last try with Dave I changed around the wires on the fuse block and got rid of the on-off switch , and the white /blue trace fuse popped not the orange.
When I disconnect the orange wire from the molex plug the fuse doesn't pop as soon as I connect pop.
I have checked and rechecked the bulb sockets....
I wish freight wasn't so expensive I'd ship this nightmare to you, and you can have it.
Paul