New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: zener on November 03, 2023, 04:48:00 PM
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Anyone know where I can get a schematic for an older Bally 831. 831ZN to be exact. Thanks in advance for any information.
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831-ZN was made for "australian" ... who/whatever that is. Finding the exact schematic (w-1046-1131) is very unlikely.
assuming what you have is really an 831-ZN ... the model/serial number plates tended to wander ... it will be pretty close to a 831-D, except your payout counter wiring and maybe the disc is different. Can you post pics of the entire game front and the payout counter? If the site is rejecting for file size, email highest possible resolution pics to slotpics@cdyn.com
besides the payouts, typical stuff that differed between models was when the jackpot bell rang or how jackpot lockup was cleared. Almost all the basic game circuitry is the same.
paperwork for some 831 models can be found on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/
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Here are the first ones. Not sure why the first one is sideways? Added one of the model and serial # plate.
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And another one,
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interesting ... your m-645-141 payout counter disk has a different trace pattern than the w-923-134 drawing in the 831-D paperwork shows.
looks like the main difference is your game pays 10 for 3 cherries and the 831-D pays 12, so the way your payout counter is wired must be slightly different or there's a diode on it or the reel wipers/boards someplace.
your 3rd line jackpot amount is also lower ... typically the 831 fruit symbol games paid 200, 200 and 1000 coins for the jackpots ... but you probably won't see a difference on the 831-D schem. On the -D, the top paying jackpot locked up the game and the casino paid the entire amount by hand. Your game is probably the same (vs. paying 200 coins and the casino pays the rest by hand).
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Thanks for the information. The unit has a few issues such as;
1. The payout counter wheel doesn't reset all the time on the coin hopper assy. Therefore when I reset it manually it pays out correctly for the first win. And seems to deduct what it has already paid on subsequent wins.
2. The lights on the top assy for the third coin do not light up. The third coin light on the reel glass does. This row of lights never light up even when the unit is initially turned on. It did when I first got the unit from a friend to fix. It seemed to stop working after I cleaned the contacts on the step up wheel in the top assy.
3. The coin kicker relay buzzes sometimes pretty loudly and I have to open the door and move the paddle in the door to get it to stop.
It has some other minor issues that I have ben able to correct by cleaning the plug on the back of the housing for the top unit. I plan to clean the remaining plugs in the housing today and see if the corrects some issues.
I downloaded and printed the Bally Troubleshooting document from the file site.
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Thanks for the information. The unit has a few issues such as;
1. The payout counter wheel doesn't reset all the time on the coin hopper assy. Therefore when I reset it manually it pays out correctly for the first win. And seems to deduct what it has already paid on subsequent wins.
the payout counter reset coil is controlled by two switches. The usual problem is the zero switch that is on the front of the payout counter mounted on the outboard carriage in front of the spiral. The switch needs to close when the unit is not reset, and only be open when the unit is reset. Its purpose is to prevent pulsing the reset coil when it's not needed.
you can quick check by using a jumper wire to connect the black/white 85-1 and orange/black 78-1 wires on the switch blades together and see if the counter resets then.
if it's not that, it could be the reel mech B switch (left side of reel mech, horizontal switches with 78-1 and yellow 30 wires.
if not that, its either plug connections, a broken wire or the coil itself.
2. The lights on the top assy for the third coin do not light up. The third coin light on the reel glass does. This row of lights never light up even when the unit is initially turned on. It did when I first got the unit from a friend to fix. It seemed to stop working after I cleaned the contacts on the step up wheel in the top assy.
the stepper turns on both the reel glass 3rd coin light and the top insert lights, so it's not the stepper.
the difference is the top insert lights also go thru switches on the top, center and bottom jackpot relays, so it should be one of those switches is open when is should be closed. See the 831-D schematic around K7 for the circuit going to the "3rd coin bally" lamp for the wire colors (38-3, 40-3 and 41-3) on the switches.
the idea is if you get one of the top jackpots, the game turns off the non-winning rows and flashes the winning row. The flashing uses a 455 flasher lamp to control a 6V relay. 455 lamps I think are no longer produced, so eventually the supply will run out and something else will be needed to make things flash.
3. The coin kicker relay buzzes sometimes pretty loudly and I have to open the door and move the paddle in the door to get it to stop.
the buzz comes from the armature plate not sitting squarely on the coil top. Could be due to dimples worn in the armature, the coil top is worn or the pivot points on the armature are badly worn and the armature sags.
the quick hack is stick a piece of electrical tape on the coil top or armature plate to dampen the vibration. You can also remove the armature plate and whack it with a hammer on an anvilt o remove the dimples. Sometimes filing the coil top works, sometimes you have to replace the coil.
'course, if you never expect to overflow the hopper, you can just disconnect the coil and zip tie the armature so all coins go in the hopper.
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Wolftalk, you are spot on with all of your suggestions, thanks!
I got the top Bally lights working finally. After you pointed out the portion of the schematic then it all made sense. I cleaned the relays associated with that circuit and it works as it should now.
The problem with the counter reset was the mech B switch on the reel assy. It wasn't closing when the handle was pulled like it should. A cleaning and slight adjustment took care of that issue.
I put some electrical tape on the coin kicker plate and that seems to help the buzzing. I'll keep an eye on that.
The slide mechanism is missing on the inside of door to lock it shut. As is the lock and "cam" I assume. Do you know where I can get one? Not a lot of parts on Ebay. Thanks again for the assistance, saved me a bunch of time. Although this is a fun hobby for sure. :yes:
PS. Where can I find a list of the color codes vs. wire color for these machines?
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the wire color code chart is on the schematic and I think there's a sticky topic on this board - https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=146.0
parts I'm not sure since Monti recently died. Maybe KLAR will have something or you can post a wanted ad looking for the pieces or someone can chime in if they have extras (maybe david walz)
the cam just attaches to the lock and has a peg poking out that raises/lowers the bar that engages the hooks in the door opening. There's a link and shield bar also. The bally 400 manual has the exploded parts diagram for the 831F on page 28.
taking out the pieces is a hassle ... usually people just wedge the bar up with something if they don't have a lock.
the lock itself and the cam can be found on ebay or amazon.
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Here is an interesting picture of the top front edge of the Slot machine Case. Does this signify that it is a 831-D case?
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all the 831 cabinets are the same except some may have a light tower and sign on top and some may have a service button on the door.
the basic dimensions of the cabinet and style of trim narrows down what a machine could be, but the same cabinet was used for multiple models. e.g. the 785, 808, 809, 831 and 873 all look the same if you ignore what it says on the glass.
the casinos liked the machines to look the same when they were lined up next to each other.
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Regarding the missing lock slider bar.
I’ll take a look to see what I have in salvage.