New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Other Reel Games => Topic started by: gwslotting on July 11, 2020, 05:26:18 PM
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Hello, One day old new member. Very impressed with this website. Salute to all the volunteers and contributors.
I just purchased 2 non-working slots anticipating house-bounded due to covid-19 for another year! Yes, pessimistic. :CaptainHappy_worried:
One Aristocrat, the other Seaburg Williams (post another day).
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Question 1 of 3 .....Need help identifying the Aristocrat and help getting a full service manual and schematic.
On June 2012, then new member named “Dâ€offered his complete manuals and uploaded to members who asked for it.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=18759.msg155786#msg155786 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=post;topic=9086.0;last_msg=151175#msg155786)
If mine is similar, maybe someone who is reading this post can help.
Service Manual No. 22 (export)First Printed MAY 1982REVISED March '83
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Service Manual MICRO PROCESSOR SLOT MACHINES
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Question 2 of 3: .....From Feb 2020 to May 2020, RemieSmith (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=6520) had several experts assisted in solving his EPROM issues. Very impressive that the group helped him and he is willing to share with us updates.
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=9086.20 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=9086.20)
Average eprom life is 5 to 15 years. These circuits almost 40 years old . I assume these game machines EPROM are on borrowed time. There are EPROM programmers and very user friendly software for sale to duplicate EPROMS before they fail. Complete new systems starting around $500. Worth the investment?
What are the risk of prying out still functioning EPROMS to make a master copy or even a few backups? Even one bit of data, if weak, will make backing EPROMS impossible without programming knowledge.
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Question 3 of 3: .... Can’t tell if the cash meter / Void display rack is malfunctioning, disconnected, or simply all the bulbs went out. Seller said at one point machine works until he left it turned off for a year. Photos show fuse holders, some with “normal fuses??†Without schematic, should they be festoon bulbs, 24 V or 12V. How many watts max? Can modern LED fastoons be substituted?
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Hope to share more after getting hands on service manual and schematic . Thank You
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I think you're jerowo7, the guy I just emailed and sent the manuals.
The festoon lamps are all driven by AC. You can try substituting LEDs but they may not be able to stand the reverse voltage.
If your program ROMs are 2716, there's hope - most EPROM programmers can at least read them. If they're 2708s, oh dear. Those suckers require three power supplies - 5V, 12V and minus 5V - and would need a special rig made to read them out.
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Op Bell. Thank you for the advice and the story on Aristocrat and IGT, insider's story is always a treasure. :yes:
My unit is almost the same as your photo. Some difference
3 reels versus 5 reels.
Two Beckman white chips versus blue (resistor arrays?)
2716 EPROMS labelled differently
You mentioned replacement chips on these machines are very rare. Would you suggest that I
(1) Re-assemble the unit and fire it up and see...
(2) Pull out the EPROMs, put them on my TL866II+ EEPROM Programmer just to save and read the binary content. Never used a EPROM programmer before, but from the web sites such as , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeZDlz2F8GI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeZDlz2F8GI), it is not difficult. Probably I could not read the codes to tell the chip is corrupted, unless its all ff ff ff ff :rotfl:
My main concern is how risky to pull 40 year old EPROM from 40 year old PC boards. .
Thank You again Op Bell.
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On the issue of some replacement chips on this machine are very very rare, here's the other main PC board. Wonder if I should pull critical chips to check on the EPROM programmer before re assemble the machine
Does the old saying " if it ain't broken, don fix it" apply here to 40 year old electronic circuit boards ?
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Regarding your message about the EEPROM's, after all the work of getting the hex files, buying an programmer and getting replacement 2716's I found that my original EEPROM's sere still fine and needed not reprogramming. Unfortunately I never made a backup copy and I would not like to disassemble the machine again. Its working fine.
The biggest suggestion I can offer it replace the memory chips. OP-Bell :applause: suggested replacing mine and that cured my startup issues. You can purchase Static CMOS RAM DIP-22 PCD5101 on eBay. You will need two but I would purchase 4. I found that some of the replacement chips still didn't work.
What exactly does your unit do when you power it on?
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Thank you so much for your prompt reply.
I guess I am going through the same feelings of attempting to revive this machine.. worrying about the 2716. But I am so surprised they lasted 40 plus years... Your effort to prepare for 2716 re programming will not be wasted unless you plan to transfer ownership of the slot in the near future.
I posted
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=29071.msg153166#msg153166 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=29071.msg153166#msg153166)
about the challenges of programming the 2716. You are so much more advanced in PCB and component level knowledge than I am, that I think you already know most of what I posted. Yes, Op Bell is so helpful also. If I ever get to take out the 2716, even if they have bit corruption, I will sure send you a copy of the codes.
I will power up the Aristocrat again, and observe what works and what doesn't. I will replace the corroded nicad batteries, clean up the leaking mess on the PCB, and add extension leads so the batteries are now outside the mpu for ease of replacement. Hard to tell ordering nicad from ebay, how long they will last or start leaking. I ordered the top of the line NiCad: panasonic (how old, no idea).
I will also study the manual , and with luck, be as successful as you are :hail: in reviving a dead machine
Where are those memory chips you and Op Bell talked about, on the same PCB, or the other Main PCB?
I got stuck with only two slot machines, both dead and not popular :banghead: . The other one even more rare, Seeburg Williams. No chips , PCB.. What a contrast, all relays and switches , so so many of them, like the roof top machine room of old building elevators, and incomplete manual.
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Attached is an image of the CPU board with the memory chips indicated
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Still collecting all the tools necessary to do PCB level diagnostics. Hope to power it up soon to see what works.
The manual keep reminding us to disconnect the MPU unit if using an Ohm meter to poke around.
What about ESD grounding while the power is still on. If the chassis of Espriit is not the same as earth ground, then should my wrist ESD band, or ESD floor mat not be connected to the earth ground, (i.e. the wrist band clamp or the floor mat clamp actually plug into the ground of the household receptacle, with the other two prongs removed). The wrist band or floor map should just clamp to the metal chassis of the slot machine.
Under normal PCB work, connecting the ESD wrist band directly to the ground of the household power seem to provide the best ESD circuit protection
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There is a grounding pin on the MPU board. I have been using the outlet earth ground to discharge static buildup. The mutli-meter is definitely a useful tool for testing supply voltages transistors and TRIACS.. The second most important is a digital logic probe. You'll need the probe to insure the MPU address ad data lines are making contact with the ROMS/RAM and PIA chips. Its important that the probe has a sound option so you get an idea of the frequency of the pulses
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Remie , I assume any logic probing, you actually remove the MPU board out of the metal MPU case, took all the ESD precautions, and then add 5V or 12 V power to the board as needed.
I have not got to that stage yet. But I plan to use an Old PC power supply, which should give me all the 5V or 12V power I need.
I ordered two used AM2716DC Eprom just for backup or experimentation. From Taiwan, he promised full refund if they don't work. But these look very old... a few corroded pins , (from Taiwan), then they ship it in non static white foam, and wrapped in a plastic bag. Can't wait to see what's inside with my EPROM programmer. But the one I have only goes up to 21 V, so may not read even if the chips are still good. Have to get one going to 25 V.
My backup RAM chips are also on its way. But the guy from EBAY is not too friendly. I asked him about return shipping charges, and he said I should find one that sell chips that I can trust...I guess I offended him by implying his chips may not work..... :lol:
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FYI regarding the EEPROM 25V verses 21V programmer. I have heard that often you can program the chips using 21VDC or you can shutoff erase/verification and program the chips repeatedly using 21 VDC, supposedly this works.
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I will try it different ways, including substitute 2716 with 2732. I read many old arcade game IC repairs use this approach. For every line of code, just add the same line right below it... 2732 a lot more easier to get. Well, maybe I will not need to get to this stage, in your case your 2716 works fine.
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***Warning-Newbie response***
gwslotting,
In response to your festoon bulb question, My Aristocrat Esprit machine has 24v 3watt festoon globes in the same position.
Dimensions were 6mm (Dia) x 36 (Length) S6 festoon.
But I did notice your PCB has a different part number to mine (My PCB# 312 111).
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Nice meeting you, Deanobrew
Thanks for the info on festoon bulbs. I have quite a few missing on my unit. I went to google and found a few suppliers. I took a gamble to buy from a vendor a batch that was a bit short in length, and I bought 20 of them. They barely fit in between the two clamp holders of the bulb mount. Just barely. But works so far. Don't know if over them the expansion and contraction will made one end of the bulb bounce out of the clamps. Do let me know if you know vendors that sell the exact length.
Do you know much about troubleshooting these machine? If you are interested, read my lastest separate post on my Aristocrat Espirit making loud grinding nose as the reels stop spinning. I am still trying to troubleshoot. Hope it is not the EPROM controlling the timeing...
Maybe your circuit board, (The MPU) is for another variation of the Espirit. They have so many variations. Do share some photos of the exterior and interior.
Take care
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Hey gwslotting,
Happy to help,
[/size]I have attached some pictures of my machine, along with a list of components I have just made for the components I replaced on my power supply board. At the bottom of that components list is the specs for the festoon globes and where I got them from. Im guessing you are not in Australia and may want to look a little harder before paying freight for some festoon globes.
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[/size]I did read your "Loud Grinding Noise" post.
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[/size]At one stage I was hearing a similar noise with my coin hopper when it was running uncontrollably, But now my machine is non responsive with the obvious things checked like fuses and microswitch positions, I've rebuilt the power supply board as well thinking the non responsive issue could be comin from there, but with no success. It has been quite a few years since this machine has functioned.
[/size]I'd be interested to hear your feedback on my machine and any advice you may have for trouble shooting the issues I'm having that are mentioned in my post.
[/size]Cheers.
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Remie , I assume any logic probing, you actually remove the MPU board out of the metal MPU case, took all the ESD precautions, and then add 5V or 12 V power to the board as needed.
I have not got to that stage yet. But I plan to use an Old PC power supply, which should give me all the 5V or 12V power I need.
I ordered two used AM2716DC Eprom just for backup or experimentation. From Taiwan, he promised full refund if they don't work. But these look very old... a few corroded pins , (from Taiwan), then they ship it in non static white foam, and wrapped in a plastic bag. Can't wait to see what's inside with my EPROM programmer. But the one I have only goes up to 21 V, so may not read even if the chips are still good. Have to get one going to 25 V.
My backup RAM chips are also on its way. But the guy from EBAY is not too friendly. I asked him about return shipping charges, and he said I should find one that sell chips that I can trust...I guess I offended him by implying his chips may not work..... :lol:
GWSloting - did it work again after replacing the memory chips: Taiwan, eBay or other? And did you get down to the eeprom level? Because I'm there. Mine is a 1981 IGT Aristocrat that looks just like your photos. It worked before I put it into climate-controlled storage, but not now, and I'd love to revive it. I replaced batteries last night and didn't get anything other than flourescent light out of it: no self test, no LED display, no sound. I'm thinking I need to go down your same path, and would appreciate your lessons learned (or advise me to haul it to the junk heap, which I'd hate, but honor).