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Author Topic: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION  (Read 27203 times)

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Offline Tmmybahama

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LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« on: October 16, 2014, 04:58:59 PM »
I sold a machine to a friend of mine last year here in Utah... TOTALLY LEGAL... She is now moving to NEW YORK... THe machine is a 1994 or 97 IGT S+ (cant remember).  Obviously its 20 years max... NEW YORK IS 30 YEARS OR OLDER... WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???  Does it mean I cant sell accross the line of New York if its not 30 years or older, OR SHE CANNOT POSSESS THE MACHINE SHE BOUGHT AT ALL IN NEW YORK????
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 12:26:37 PM by Ron (r273) »
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Offline cowboygames

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 05:50:19 PM »
The machine isn't legal in NewYork regardless of whether it was legal to own it where you lived when you bought it. She is goverened by the law where she chooses to live.

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 06:10:43 PM »
So, here is HER dilemma...  She HONESTLY has it for her own play... She doesnt let people come and break the law like I am sure some people do at home from time to time...  THIS MACHINE, IS ILLEGAL WITH OR WITHOUT COINS??? WHAT IF I CHANGED IT FOR HER TO WHERE IT CANT PAY OUT????
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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 06:40:22 PM »
it's still illegal. If she takes it there then she has to accept the possibility, however small, that she could get caught. I don't know how NewYork handles those things, some states they'll leave you alone if it's just personal fun, but some states are real pricks about it. New Jersey I think really screws people if they catch them

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 06:41:35 PM »
Bringing a machine across state lines that don't allow slots is the risk. 

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 07:02:00 PM »
New York law defines the slot machine as follows:

8. "Slot machine" means a gambling device which, as a result of the insertion  of  a  coin  or  other  object,  operates,  either completely automatically or with the aid of some physical act  by  the  player,  in such  manner  that,  depending  upon  elements  of  chance, it may eject something of value. A device so constructed,  or  readily  adaptable  or convertible  to such use, is no less a slot machine because it is not in working order or because some mechanical act of manipulation  or  repair is required to accomplish its adaptation, conversion or workability. Nor is  it  any  less  a  slot  machine  because,  apart  from  its  use  or adaptability as such, it may also sell or deliver something of value  on a  basis  other  than chance. A machine which sells items of merchandise which are of equivalent value, is not a slot machine merely because such items differ from each other in composition, size, shape or color.

Then:

S 225.30 Possession of a gambling device.
  a.  A  person  is guilty of possession of a gambling device when, with
  knowledge of the character  thereof,  he  or  she  manufactures,  sells,
  transports,   places   or  possesses,  or  conducts  or  negotiates  any
  transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership,  custody  or  use
  of:
    1.  A  slot  machine,  unless such possession is permitted pursuant to
  article nine-A of the general municipal law

The only defense for regular people is before 1941 or more than 30 years old as long as it doesn't leave the person's home.  It is not illegal if it is transported through the state in a sealed container and never leaves the container.  Also there's an out clause that says

the slot machine was transported into this state in a sealed container for the purpose of product development, research, or additional manufacture or assembly, and such slot machine will be or has been transported in a sealed container to a jurisdiction outside of this state for purposes which are lawful in such outside jurisdiction.


So yes, it is illegal, but so is running a red light or a stop sign.  Like everything else you take your chances, and like it has been said here, depends on how strict the enforcement of the law is.  Obviously the spirit of the law is to stop illegal gambling halls and such, but in certain states, they enforce to the letter of the law.
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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 07:51:29 PM »
New York law defines the slot machine as follows:

8. "Slot machine" means a gambling device which, as a result of the insertion  of  a  coin  or  other  object,  operates,  either completely automatically or with the aid of some physical act  by  the  player,  in such  manner  that,  depending  upon  elements  of  chance, it may eject something of value. A device so constructed,  or  readily  adaptable  or convertible  to such use, is no less a slot machine because it is not in working order or because some mechanical act of manipulation  or  repair is required to accomplish its adaptation, conversion or workability. Nor is  it  any  less  a  slot  machine  because,  apart  from  its  use  or adaptability as such, it may also sell or deliver something of value  on a  basis  other  than chance. A machine which sells items of merchandise which are of equivalent value, is not a slot machine merely because such items differ from each other in composition, size, shape or color.

Then:

S 225.30 Possession of a gambling device.
  a.  A  person  is guilty of possession of a gambling device when, with
  knowledge of the character  thereof,  he  or  she  manufactures,  sells,
  transports,   places   or  possesses,  or  conducts  or  negotiates  any
  transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership,  custody  or  use
  of:
    1.  A  slot  machine,  unless such possession is permitted pursuant to
  article nine-A of the general municipal law

The only defense for regular people is before 1941 or more than 30 years old as long as it doesn't leave the person's home.  It is not illegal if it is transported through the state in a sealed container and never leaves the container.  Also there's an out clause that says

the slot machine was transported into this state in a sealed container for the purpose of product development, research, or additional manufacture or assembly, and such slot machine will be or has been transported in a sealed container to a jurisdiction outside of this state for purposes which are lawful in such outside jurisdiction.


So yes, it is illegal, but so is running a red light or a stop sign.  Like everything else you take your chances, and like it has been said here, depends on how strict the enforcement of the law is.  Obviously the spirit of the law is to stop illegal gambling halls and such, but in certain states, they enforce to the letter of the law.


THIS REALLY HELPED HER ON WHAT SHE DECIDED... THANK YOU....
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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 07:11:58 AM »
I live in MD and I don't know how strict they enforce it here. We can only legally own 25+ year old machines.
Here is a funny story. I sold a machine to a coworker. (I only have room for 3 and I bought a new one to replace an existing one, so one had to go). Her husband is a MD state trooper. When I brought the machine to their house, I wanted to make sure he was ok with it. When I asked him if he had any issues with having a slot machine, he wasn't even aware that you couldn't own one for personal use. He was ok with it after he found out, he just wanted me to pull into his garage to take it out.
 


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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 03:43:43 PM »
don't sweat it look on craigs list and see how many are for sale in ny .you can't stop where it goes once it leaves your hands, nj has a 1941 law ,doj means nothing to nj

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2015, 04:21:39 PM »
the remaining NJ Casinos can't afford to lose a nickel of revenue.... of course they want to prevent personal ownership.
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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2015, 09:24:41 PM »
There are a LOT of igt s-plus and  s2000 for sale all over craigslist in the nyc area.

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2015, 08:28:46 PM »
Here is the real scoop, I live in NJ and have had machines shipped to me from guys on NLG without any problems and I'll tell you why...

NY: The law is often overlooked for personal home use, however if you are running a half dozen machines and have a lot of foot traffic expect to be visited by Law Enforcement if the word gets around to the wrong people. In general (home use, 2 or 3 machines) you will be fine.

New Jersey: I had a long talk with the NJ control commission last year about this and had someone from the enforcement division and New Jersey State Police come to my home, a nice lady and guy early in the AM after someone told the local PD I had machines in my house.

These were not antique machines but 80's reel machines and a Game Maker I got from over the border....., I showed them they used tokens (which say NO CASH VALUE) and my DOJ registration letter, they asked if they were for my own use and I said yes and showed that the bill acceptors were pulled with knock out plates over the openings. They were satisfied that I wasn't running a "illegal casino" and joked about how much money I save not loosing in the casinos (hey some cops have humor :) )

They played a few spins/checked out the games, made notes, etc. and told me to forget the visit took place and they were required to follow up on the call, they also told me to NEVER allow anyone to gamble on the machines *DUH!*.

So for all the NLG dealers who say "can't ship to NJ" that's Bull S**t! Make sure they have no bill acceptor and take tokens only (include a token in the coin comp. when shipping) and all is legal. You can also ship without hoppers if it makes the dealers feel better. This came from a dectective from the enforcement division and NJSP Trooper.

I mention NJ since many New Yorkers but them in NJ/PA off craigslist and ebay.


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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 08:39:38 PM »
don't sweat it look on craigs list and see how many are for sale in ny .you can't stop where it goes once it leaves your hands, nj has a 1941 law ,doj means nothing to nj

NJ has never arrested anyone for having a machine used for private use within a home environment.

Shipping a machine into NJ isn't illegal, the person signing the BOL (bill of landing) assumes all (and very little) risk.

Per the discussion and visit I have had with NJSP (Trooper worked vice/organized crime) and a detective from the control commission as long as it's token in token out it's OKAY. If it has a bill acceptor it's a big no-no...if you allow others to play it with the intent on profiting you can be charged for running a criminal enterprise.

In short, remove hopper and coin comp (AND bill acceptor) before shipping to NJ and all is fine. The new owner must decide which side of the law to follow.

In short home use with tokens is fine BUT SELLING MACHINES IN NJ without a valid license from the State is a BIG BIG no-no.

And the DOJ helped prove I was using them for home use, I was actually told I did the right thing by letting them know I have them for home use (honesty) and not hidden away in some corner-street crack house.

Too many dealers are unaware of this and are paranoid of NJSP/NJCCC...

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 09:16:01 PM »
Here is the real scoop, I live in NJ and have had machines shipped to me from guys on NLG without any problems and I'll tell you why...

NY: The law is often overlooked for personal home use, however if you are running a half dozen machines and have a lot of foot traffic expect to be visited by Law Enforcement if the word gets around to the wrong people. In general (home use, 2 or 3 machines) you will be fine.

New Jersey: I had a long talk with the NJ control commission last year about this and had someone from the enforcement division and New Jersey State Police come to my home, a nice lady and guy early in the AM after someone told the local PD I had machines in my house.

These were not antique machines but 80's reel machines and a Game Maker I got from over the border....., I showed them they used tokens (which say NO CASH VALUE) and my DOJ registration letter, they asked if they were for my own use and I said yes and showed that the bill acceptors were pulled with knock out plates over the openings. They were satisfied that I wasn't running a "illegal casino" and joked about how much money I save not loosing in the casinos (hey some cops have humor :) )

They played a few spins/checked out the games, made notes, etc. and told me to forget the visit took place and they were required to follow up on the call, they also told me to NEVER allow anyone to gamble on the machines *DUH!*.

So for all the NLG dealers who say "can't ship to NJ" that's Bull S**t! Make sure they have no bill acceptor and take tokens only (include a token in the coin comp. when shipping) and all is legal. You can also ship without hoppers if it makes the dealers feel better. This came from a detective from the enforcement division and NJSP Trooper.

I mention NJ since many New York'rs but them in NJ/PA off craigslist and ebay.


Thank you for that great information and will keep in mind in the future........  I wasn't the one worried, because it was someone who bought from me here in Utah and lived here... But, she was moving back to Syracuse with her family, and he hubby was ADAMANT of not taking any risk....  So, I got the machine back... FOR FREE, which I donated to a local charity after I changed it over to accepting bills but no payout.... Credits only... That way, its just an arcade machine making money....
“Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 09:41:26 PM »
Here is the real scoop, I live in NJ and have had machines shipped to me from guys on NLG without any problems and I'll tell you why...

NY: The law is often overlooked for personal home use, however if you are running a half dozen machines and have a lot of foot traffic expect to be visited by Law Enforcement if the word gets around to the wrong people. In general (home use, 2 or 3 machines) you will be fine.

New Jersey: I had a long talk with the NJ control commission last year about this and had someone from the enforcement division and New Jersey State Police come to my home, a nice lady and guy early in the AM after someone told the local PD I had machines in my house.

These were not antique machines but 80's reel machines and a Game Maker I got from over the border....., I showed them they used tokens (which say NO CASH VALUE) and my DOJ registration letter, they asked if they were for my own use and I said yes and showed that the bill acceptors were pulled with knock out plates over the openings. They were satisfied that I wasn't running a "illegal casino" and joked about how much money I save not loosing in the casinos (hey some cops have humor :) )

They played a few spins/checked out the games, made notes, etc. and told me to forget the visit took place and they were required to follow up on the call, they also told me to NEVER allow anyone to gamble on the machines *DUH!*.

So for all the NLG dealers who say "can't ship to NJ" that's Bull S**t! Make sure they have no bill acceptor and take tokens only (include a token in the coin comp. when shipping) and all is legal. You can also ship without hoppers if it makes the dealers feel better. This came from a detective from the enforcement division and NJSP Trooper.

I mention NJ since many New York'rs but them in NJ/PA off craigslist and ebay.


Thank you for that great information and will keep in mind in the future........  I wasn't the one worried, because it was someone who bought from me here in Utah and lived here... But, she was moving back to Syracuse with her family, and he hubby was ADAMANT of not taking any risk....  So, I got the machine back... FOR FREE, which I donated to a local charity after I changed it over to accepting bills but no payout.... Credits only... That way, its just an arcade machine making money....

In Wildwood NJ we have machines setup to take real money and dispense tickets to redeem for toys and prizes (in kids arcades).

One guy has around 20 slant top IGT machines (old S+ machines) in his arcade, makes a killing off them and stays within the law...now if they dispensed coins to be redeemed for cash that would be 7-10 years in Trenton lol

One of the reasons for the NY/NJ restrictions was due to illegal gambling in the 70's (pre Atlantic City) when you had guys like Patrick DeFilippo running gaming rooms (social clubs..) with slots all over NJ and NY. This gave the authorities powers to prosecute them and gave private slot owners a bad reputation. It's a Jersey/New York thing with all that has gone on past and present with illegal gambling but those laws hurt us legitimate game room owners.

I'll admit when the freight trucks would come I would move the pallet like my rear end was on fire into the garage so neighbors wouldn't see it and get the wrong impression.


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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2015, 10:11:34 PM »
In Japan they have pashilo & pachinko parlors. They redeem in prizes.
Next door they have prize redemption centers. These are people who just want to buy giant stuffed toys for pennies on the dollar.
Legally they are not allowed to be related to the parlor but you can bet your last yen they are connected somehow.

So the company basically makes on the house percentage, gives prizes at pennies on the dollar and then buys them back for even less.
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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2015, 10:18:12 PM »
I have heard the same thigpng happening in Texas and p, I think, Arkansas?
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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2015, 10:28:44 PM »
I have heard the same thigpng happening in Texas and p, I think, Arkansas?

It's a loophole but it's a win-win.

NJ has NEVER EVER licensed a small gaming room, gas station, airports, etc. like you see in Nevada. That would help generate additional revenue for the State but nobody wants to introduce such a bill.

With the casinos closing left and right less and less are going to Atlantic City to gamble so now would be the time to do it.


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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 10:29:43 PM »
Here is the real scoop, I live in NJ and have had machines shipped to me from guys on NLG without any problems and I'll tell you why...

NY: The law is often overlooked for personal home use, however if you are running a half dozen machines and have a lot of foot traffic expect to be visited by Law Enforcement if the word gets around to the wrong people. In general (home use, 2 or 3 machines) you will be fine.

New Jersey: I had a long talk with the NJ control commission last year about this and had someone from the enforcement division and New Jersey State Police come to my home, a nice lady and guy early in the AM after someone told the local PD I had machines in my house.

These were not antique machines but 80's reel machines and a Game Maker I got from over the border....., I showed them they used tokens (which say NO CASH VALUE) and my DOJ registration letter, they asked if they were for my own use and I said yes and showed that the bill acceptors were pulled with knock out plates over the openings. They were satisfied that I wasn't running a "illegal casino" and joked about how much money I save not loosing in the casinos (hey some cops have humor :) )

They played a few spins/checked out the games, made notes, etc. and told me to forget the visit took place and they were required to follow up on the call, they also told me to NEVER allow anyone to gamble on the machines *DUH!*.

So for all the NLG dealers who say "can't ship to NJ" that's Bull S**t! Make sure they have no bill acceptor and take tokens only (include a token in the coin comp. when shipping) and all is legal. You can also ship without hoppers if it makes the dealers feel better. This came from a detective from the enforcement division and NJSP Trooper.

I mention NJ since many New York'rs but them in NJ/PA off craigslist and ebay.


Thank you for that great information and will keep in mind in the future........  I wasn't the one worried, because it was someone who bought from me here in Utah and lived here... But, she was moving back to Syracuse with her family, and he hubby was ADAMANT of not taking any risk....  So, I got the machine back... FOR FREE, which I donated to a local charity after I changed it over to accepting bills but no payout.... Credits only... That way, its just an arcade machine making money....

In Wildwood NJ we have machines setup to take real money and dispense tickets to redeem for toys and prizes (in kids arcades).

One guy has around 20 slant top IGT machines (old S+ machines) in his arcade, makes a killing off them and stays within the law...now if they dispensed coins to be redeemed for cash that would be 7-10 years in Trenton lol

One of the reasons for the NY/NJ restrictions was due to illegal gambling in the 70's (pre Atlantic City) when you had guys like Patrick DeFilippo running gaming rooms (social clubs..) with slots all over NJ and NY. This gave the authorities powers to prosecute them and gave private slot owners a bad reputation. It's a Jersey/New York thing with all that has gone on past and present with illegal gambling but those laws hurt us legitimate game room owners.

I'll admit when the freight trucks would come I would move the pallet like my rear end was on fire into the garage so neighbors wouldn't see it and get the wrong impression.


AND NY CANT OWN ANYTHING ANYMORE (OR HAVE THE RIGHT TO)... NO SUPER SIZING, NO GUNS, CURFEW, I FEEL BAD FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK... They WERE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM (thats the story we are told according to the commission, and I don't want to share what I believe at this time), AND NOW PEOPLE OF NEW YORK LOSE MORE RIGHTS? ???  SAME WITH CHICAGO!!!! TAKE AWAY THE GUNS FROM THE LAW ABIDING ONES, AND IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO STOP THE GANGS FROM SHOOTING ONE ANOTHER AND HITTING INNOCENTS MORE OFTEN THAN THEIR TARGET!!!  Shit, I am getting fired up... Need to stop...

And, here I AM IN UTAH, BEHIND THE ZION WALL, (where drinking is HUGE here, despite what you hear), and we have NO RESTRICTIONS ON HOME AMUSEMENT OF ANY GAMBLING SLOT MACHINE.... Of course GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL, n in NO WAY WOULD I CONDONE THAT without being legit, but hello, STATES THAN BAN SLOTS OUTRIGHT, LIKE HAWAII and the others, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? ??? GIVELAW ABIDING CITIZENS BE LAW ABIDING CHOICE TO HAVE THE MACHINES IN THEIR HOME... PROSECUTE THOSE WHO ARE BREAKING THE LAW, IF YOU NEED TO, BUT LET NEW YORK SLOT HOME OWNERS OWN THEIR MACHINES WITH PRIDE!!!!

(not sure why I went on this spiel, but I did... Not sure WTH I just wrote, but I am gonna send it, being it was from the heart (at least when I was getting a bit fired up and passionate, as I wrote), and then read what I wrote... Hope it didnt come off too silly or offensive.....  (I love NY too, SCARSDALE NY especially.  Grew up there in the summers staying at my Grandparent's home for a decade+....  Many fond memories)
“Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Gambling is a way of buying hope on credit."

Offline Tmmybahama

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Re: LEGALITY OF SLOTS QUESTION
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 10:31:41 PM »
In Japan they have pashilo & pachinko parlors. They redeem in prizes.
Next door they have prize redemption centers. These are people who just want to buy giant stuffed toys for pennies on the dollar.
Legally they are not allowed to be related to the parlor but you can bet your last yen they are connected somehow.

So the company basically makes on the house percentage, gives prizes at pennies on the dollar and then buys them back for even less.


Funny you say that.. I WATCHED THIS VIDEO JUST YESTERDAY OF THE CRAZIEST ARCADE PUSH IT GAME I HAVE EVER SEEN... WAIT TIL YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THESE YOUNG BRITISH VISITORS, PLAYING IN JUST ONE OF THE ARCADES YOU DESCRIBED:  (THIS HAS TO BE WORTH SOME MONEY IN PRIZES BIG TIME)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0OnmhhFk9g

“Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Gambling is a way of buying hope on credit."

 

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