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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Electromechanical => Topic started by: Simple Sam on April 08, 2022, 09:54:35 AM
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I have a question about my 1008-9 from the Mint Hotel. When I look at the Bally production records here: http://bingo.cdyn.com/.../bally%20slot%20models/1008_01.png (http://bingo.cdyn.com/.../bally%20slot%20models/1008_01.png) I see that there are what appears to be three different models purchased by the Mint differing only by the first reel's tape and index wheel. I'm assuming that this is so they can have machines with three different payback %. Is that true? Is there any way (other than manually calculating) to tell the payback % such as other Bally records? Here's the info with the tapes being circled in red and the index wheels circled in green.
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you're right ... multiple payback percentage machines that may have been different coin denominations even though that document doesn't show different glass.
while I have reel tape definitions so it's possible to calculate the hit percentage for combinations, I don't have the machine pay tables so a correct schematic would be needed to calculate the actual machine payback percentage - or a correct glass.
you can find tape definitions in the 1008-3 directory on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ except the m-222-460 tape. The difference on that one is it has:
PL - 5
BE - 1
BA - 1
for example, the 385 tape had
PL - 1
BE - 3
BA - 3
both had:
CH - 3
OR - 11
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you're right ... multiple payback percentage machines that may have been different coin denominations even though that document doesn't show different glass.
while I have reel tape definitions so it's possible to calculate the hit percentage for combinations, I don't have the machine pay tables so a correct schematic would be needed to calculate the actual machine payback percentage - or a correct glass.
you can find tape definitions in the 1008-3 directory on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ except the m-222-460 tape. The difference on that one is it has:
PL - 5
BE - 1
BA - 1
for example, the 385 tape had
PL - 1
BE - 3
BA - 3
both had:
CH - 3
OR - 11
That's just what I was looking for. I have looked at your website before but didn't realize what all that info was. I plotted out the tapes and backed into the -460 tape by looking at the corresponding index wheel. The only difference is the number of plums versus number of bars. There are 3,4,5 plums respectively for the 385, 401, and 460 and a corresponding 3,2,1 bars. The feature glass is the same for all machines so the award for each winning combination is the same. Since the bars have higher value awards, the overall payback % should go up as you switch from plums to bars at the expense of hit frequency. Without going through the math, I suspect that the highest payback % (the 385) would only beat the lowest payback % (the 460) by a few percent.
On a related note, I have an 831 "1767 ways" that isn't 1767 ways but is 1575 ways. I think the reel tapes/index wheels were changed to remove one of the bars. Now that I understand what info is available, I can verify if it was changed.
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I found the even more definitive answer in the Bally EM par sheet section. My machine (385) has a payback % of 86.3%, the 401 is 82.9% and the 460 is 79.5%. I really need to spend more time poking around to see what info is in there!
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the par sheets are for specific models, so the 1008 part sheet does not necessarily apply to the 1008-9 as the pay table may be different.
even when the payout disc is the same, it's possible different traces were connected to change the payouts. If the glass and payout disc is the same tho, you've got a good chance the numbers are the same. if you're really lucky, the blueprint for the payout disc will note model wiring changes.
a couple people have done nice spreadsheets where you plug in the symbol frequency and pay table and the percentage is calculated for you. They should be posted on the NLG topics.
one of them is also on the bingo.cdyn.com web site in the payback percentage calc folder.
if anyone is wondering what par sheets are, look in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_info for a pdf of some.