New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: darwinasm86 on September 21, 2015, 11:25:47 PM
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First time poster here, I have a couple of questions about my new slot machine.
I purchased it a couple of days ago for my dad as a gift, and the lights come on but the fun ends there. The owner said it use to work but cant remember when it stopped or why.
Observations so far.
1. Power Supply +5V at the test points on the PSU PCB, Didn't check ZC or UR yet
2. +5V from the 7805s on the MPU are good to go, measuring 4.98 VDC at the test point
3. I removed the Lithium 3.6V battery from the RAM PCB... it was leaking...
4. Coin Mech seems doesnt accept coins... goes straight to the reject path, not matter the adjustment but looks like this CJ's Slot connection that this was originally purchased from in the mid nineties made a replacement piece for the accept or reject slide adustment... maybe thats it.
5. There is a momentary switch in the path after accepting coins which trips when a coin travels by, tested that with my meter and switch is good, didnt test with power
6. test and reset switch located by the hopper Fuse dont seem to have any affect.
7. SHould have been number one, but I checked the input AC for shorts, and fuses before first power on.
Questions:
1. When I turn on the unit should I hear any sounds other than relays, the high voltage from the starters... game noises?
2. I keep seeing hints of test modes, is there a self or BIT test I can run on this?
3. there is a set of grey wires with female slide terminals that has been shorted together on the bottom left of the machine using a metal shunt, is that supposed to be the "cherry" switch.
4. I havent checked the EEPROMs yet, but I have seen multiple configurations of MPUs with some populated and others not, are there also different check sums for these reference designators or if anyone has them they will always be the same, i'd imagine not, but fingers crossed. I would like to read and compare and make sure that nothing has gone wonky.
5. Anything else I could look for to narrow down the search?
Any help is much appreciated :)
Thx,
Jason
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Added Some Pictures.
Also someone clipped C31 from the I/O PCB, any know what this MOD is for?
I Removed U1 and U2 7805 Regulators from the PCB.
Enjoy
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Hello.. Welcome to NLG. Looks like you have a Bally E1000 Series machine. That Ram board that the battery was on can be some of your problem. The connection between it and the MPU tend to fail due to battery acid. The female Ram board connectors turn green and fall apart. You could also try to reseat the two ram chips on that board, 5101 I think is there numbers.
Does your machine show any numbers in the front door win meter when you power it on? Those are machine codes.. Those machines do tend to have fuse holder problems. The aluminum used inside breaks. Another thing to check is the condition of your ribbon cable between the I/O and MPU..
As for the two gray wires, take a picture for us, but it sounds like your missing a kick or arm switch??
As for the clipped C31, I've seen that before, it shouldn't be a problem.
You might want to post a pic of your coin acceptor while your at it. Could be a coin comparitor.. If it is you need to put a coin is the slide on the comparitor before it will accept coins
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Thank you for responding :).
I'll send pictures later this evening when I have a chance, and for the front, where it says game wins it says 1
When I first turned it on it said 0
I don't think I've played around with it and gotten it to say 0 again, but for now just 1.
Thank you again,
Jason
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Since you have a E2000 series machine you
might be better off to replace that E1000 board
with a tested E2000 MPU and i/o board.
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Thank you Proten,
Do you know what the differences are between the two boards? Do you know if any schematics exist for the board I have? Where would I get an E2000 Series MPU board?
Jason
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Your machine could be an early version of the 2000 series that still ran the E1000 MPU. It a common thing. There should be stickers on your boards that match your machine.
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Thanks AMechanic,
I will take some pictures of the boards etc this evening and share them with the forum. Ill clean and test for continuity on the RAM PCB as well, and if that fails Ill scope the clock and the Address lines to see if there is any activity on the board.
Is there a specific momentary switch that adds credits to play without playing? I'd like to scope that and see how that circuit is functioning.
thanks again,
Jason
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The difference between the boards is that there is no ram board on the 2000 series.
Both boards are interchangeable and the E2000 are more reliable than the E1000 boards.
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I am a little surprised that no one has mentioned that the eprom for M3 is missing. My guess is
that it is sitting in the M4 socket or just missing all together.
The code 0 (bbbbb0 where b= blank)) is not a valid code but may appear if the clock is not operating.
A bbbbb1 code would be a Ram failure code which very well may be caused by a leaky battery that has
eaten away or corroded the contacts on the ram board.
I would expect that with eprom #3 (M3) missing you would have a bbbbb4 error code, since the machine
never gets past the ram check error, that would be a good place to start.
The eproms have different checksums, but 99% of them end with 00, the chip in M7 is the game chip
and 99% of those checksums end in 56.
C31 on the IO board is attached from one side of R31A to ground and is part of the circuit that illuminates the
reel reader lamps. I would re-attach it and if you are having problems with the reel readers turning on, look
at that portion of the circuit and find out why.
Was there a reason that you removed the 2 regulators from the IO board? If not there even with all other aspects
of the machine being 100% your would get a 500000 error because the MPU can not communicate with the IO board.
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Thank You Dhellis and everyone that has responded so far.
Tonights results:
1. See picture below of 7805s from the IO PCB.
a. Part of the case on the TO-220 case was broken off and the leads of the second one were discolored from heat, so I wanted to change them anyways
b. I test them on the bench and they were both working, but I put new ones in any ways :)
2. I reseated the ICs on the RAM PCB, and cleaned and reflowed the contacts.
3. I cleaned the header pins on the MPU PCB as well.
4. Put it all back together and turned the unit on.
5. The LCD now reads 0
6. I tried to close the door to the machine and lock it and maybe it was coincidence, dont know but I blew a fuse!
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Oops not finished yet, darn laptop!
Bottom Right fuse 250V 5A, also tripped my GFCI in my garage.
So that was fun.
I also moved the EEPROM back to M3 from M4, yes Dhellis you were right :)
Also here are some pictures of the Coin mech, and as you can see the adjustment at the bottom looks like it was a Kludge job.
Any other thoughts on what might have blown the fuse and if 0 means were good :) ... but somehow I doubt it..
Hmm now that I think about it those gray wires were in the way when I closed the door... sigh,.. that probably did it...
Thanks,
Jason
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I read over the post again, code "0" is not valid and could mean that the clock is not running.
I will take a look again when I replace the fuse and get the machine up for another round tomorrow evening.
If I hadn't shorted it, is there a bootup time when you first turn the machine on, or should I get game sounds right away?
Thanks
Jason
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Does anyone have the procedure for how to run tests on the machine... I keep seeing references to running test 1, test 5...etc?
Thanks
Jason
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Just for fun added a quick and dirty test for my 7805 I did last night.. well here is a picture :)
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Does anyone have the procedure for how to run tests on the machine... I keep seeing references to running test 1, test 5...etc?
Thanks
Jason
When we talk about running test on the machine, that's done using the test button on the hopper board.. I have attached two pdf manuals that might help
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Ohhh Thank you!!!!
Going to start going through them now!!!
I replaced the fuse and Im up and running again, lights are on, and the display has a single 0 in the number 6 position.
Looks like the 1 error code is gone now, or the machine is just more dead :)
Thank you,
Jason
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Looks Like the MPU board is not running.
Clock is running, I attached a picture of the Crystal
Crystal, 4MHz, CPU CLK is 1MHz
The Address and Data lines are hovering at about 200mV, sooo... looks like I need to dig into this more.
Are there any known high failure components? I ran through the board quickly with my Huntron and didn't see any obvious failures.
Does anyone have the FO-650-1 Document for the AS2978-3?
Thank you
Jason
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I have that manual (not in PDF though) but not sure how much good it would do you. The manual is written assuming that
you have the Bally K661 tester. When the boards are being tested all eproms, ram boards and even the
CPU chip are removed from the board. Connecting to the Simulator portion of the tester a constant known
set of signals are sent to the board. The signals are then traced with the Signal Monitor which will show
different codes.
The one benefit that having the manual does provide is knowing the test points and which parts control
each segment of operation.
One word of advice that I would give you is to resolder the connections underneath the bipolar proms
(21, U25 and U29) also the connections on U7 and U8. These chips consume a bit of current so will generate
heat.
Oh and another tip, C3 located next to the small relay can give you strange error codes. The capacitor is 33 mfd @50
volts and is part of the reset circuit. As a quick test you can jumper that relay and see if the 0 code goes away
or changes. If it does then C3, the relay U5 or even the 555 (U18) but thus far I have never found a bad 555
anywhere except on IO boards.
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Looks like that relay is no more. I removed it and tested it and its a dead stick.
Also I removed all of the electrolytics this morning and tested them, they are all still good.
I attached a screen shot of the Output of U5 (Pin 11, 4Y )
Ill have to jumper it tonight and test it now that I found that bad part.
Side note Question, what is the output of J3? Is it BCD?
Thank,
Jason
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Not sure what you are asking on the ou? unless you meant "What is the output"
Pin 11 of U5 is the output that drives the relay. The reset switch is attached to pin 12
as well as Q3, Pin 13 is attached to U26 pin 12 as well as R6 and J8 pin 15
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Sorry about that my laptop at home has issues and the message was cut off.
I was asking if the output of J3 to the LCD was BCD and if you knew what the state of the pins are so I could look at the states on my bench?
That way I dont hacve to put it back in my machine to test for the error codes :)
Thanks Again,
Jason
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The state would be difficult to determine, easier just to pull the display board and ribbon cable and move that
to the bench.
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It's Alive!!! errr almost... I fixed the relay...
It boots up, see the picture, it accepts coins now, and changes the top light to first coin when I inserted a quarter, and then it changed to 2nd coin when I inserted a second quarter, and the coin accepted light came on as well...
but the handle wont pull... any suggestions?
Im not sure if there are lights on the reel, seems kind of dark, so... maybe the reel mech isnt getting power which is the mechanism that allows the handle to pull?
Thank you,
Jason
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There is a solenoid behind the handle and a small lever that keeps the handle from being pulled.
Try lifting the lever and see if you can now pull the handle down.
This solenoid is controlled by Q18 (Triac) on the IO board
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Yes I can manually pull it, so, guess what im doing tomorrow night haha :)
Thank you for that.
Looks like Im getting there, its nice to see part of the machine working... I think ive dumped a few dollars into the machine already just to see that part work.
I probed the Zero Cross the other night so i know that part is working...
Jason
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I would run test 2 using the hopper board button. This will cycle the lights, and solenoids in the machines. (SEE MANUAL).. The other possible problems is that the air cylinder on the right side of the reels, (long white tube) is frozen, try pushing on the metal U shaped bracket going inside it to test.. There is a rubber seal inside it, that over time turns to a sticky, tar like mess.. Remove the cylinder, 4 screws and clean it out. I don't use a seal since they don't make a replacement. Someone here did find and make one work with a little mod, but a thin, very thin layer of grease works just great... Any type of solvent, even WD40 will help clean the air cylinder.
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Thanks Amechanic, ill try that too :)
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I checked the cylinder and its a little stiff, but its working.
I can't seem to get test two to initiate.
I press the test button twice, and I see when I press the button the LCD changes to 1, but not two, and the solenoid on the door for the coin plus some hidden ones I can't see, and a couple of lights toggle simultaneously but that's it.
I did not see the solenoid for the pull handle toggle when I tried the test...
I seem to remember that there is a configuration on the dip switch for the MPU board that is a maintenance mode?
Thanks,
Jason
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When entering the tests, there needs to be a slight pause between button pushes, about 1 second.
You see a 1 and when you see that push the test button to advance to test 2
SW1-8 is used for maintenance mode, it opens the connection between pin 12 of U26 to pin 13 of U5
that is unless jumper S14 is in place (next to the dip switch on the edge of the PCB board). With S14
installed SW1-8 has no effect. Normally SW1-8 would be turned off when troubleshooting the board
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I put the dip switch in maintenance mode, all switches in the off position, and the same thing.
The display reads 50 000 , which is door open, I press the test switch and it reads 50 001, and same as before lights flash and some solenoids toggle, but it wont change to 2 or 3 etc...
Going to test the TRIAC now.
Jason
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Looks like the IO board is good, I don't see any AC on the solenoid, and I can't really read what the schematic says... is it supposed to be 7.5VAC?
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The relay should be 50VAC
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Ok I see 51VAC across the coil, and the solenoid and its not working.
Im also confused by this because when I trace the wiring harness to the IO board its going to Q13, which is M1 of the TRIAC, pin 7 of theJ1.
The coil resistance for the solenoid is 76 Ohms, so it doesn't appear to be bad, but I havent figured out where the other side runs to.
I know you said Q18, but according to the wiring diagrams in the manuals, the handle lockout is Q16, not Q18, and Q18 is the coin lockout...
So Q13? Do you know where the second Pin on the Molex connector is going to?
Thanks,
Jason
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Oops, you are right. When I looked at the schematic, I saw Q16, as I was writing I looked back and picked
up Q18. Sorry about that.
Q13 should go to the door buzzer (if you have one)
There are 2 wires attached to one side of the solenoid, one goes directly to J1 pin 10, the other wire
will go to a 8.2K ohm resistor to ground. In this case ground terminal K of the power transformer (E-122-151)
and should also be a gray wire.
Maybe this is a good time to also tell you the color codes used for the wiring. The first digit of the wiring code
is the primary color, the second digit is the color of the stripe, if a stripe is used.
1 = Red
2 = Blue
3 = Yellow
4 = Green
5 = White
6 = Brown
7 = Orange
8 = Black
9 = Gray
0 = No stripe (tracer)
J = Jumper
J1 would be the jumper header and then the pin number
An Orange wire would be labeled as 70, an Orange wire with a black stripe would be 78, you may find
number such as 78-1 this would still be an Orange wire with a black stripe that was used again.
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Its working!!! I traced out the wiring harness and the last probelm is that the Handle Solenoid was plugged into the wrong connector, one I fixed that, Im in business!!! Thanks guys...
Now for the other thing, last night when I bypassed the solenoid and I WON on the line the hopper fuse blew. I've played a few times since I fixed it and havent won again, but at a dollar a fuse, i'd like to fix that too if thats a seperate issue.
Thanks again for your help!!
Jason
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Pull the hopper out, and make sure it turns.. There is a brake lever on the motor, push that and grab the hoppers star and spin the hopper. It should spin, but have resistance because of the gear box. There are a couple small oiling hole on the hopper motor and sometime on the gear box
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Thanks :)
I appreciate everything :)
Two other questions, one does anyone have a part number for a replacement battery for the RAM PCB?
Second is does anyone have a source for the relay on the MPU board? I'd like to put in the same part?
All in all I would like this to be as original as possible. Since it's for my dad, and Antique for an Antique :propeller:
Jason
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Ok it spins nice and smoothly, anything else particularly I should look for?
Otherwise I guess its time to diassemble the hopper and test the boards.
Thanks Jason
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There are two diodes on the top of the hopper board, CR11 & CR12 if I remember correctly. The original ones were known to crack, I check those.. Next the triac Q3, mac 15-6 goes bad too and will blow fuses..
Here is an EBay link for the battery you want..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALLY-BATTERY-ESERIES-NiCad-3-6V-/151051144687?hash=item232b598def (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALLY-BATTERY-ESERIES-NiCad-3-6V-/151051144687?hash=item232b598def)
As for your relay, I'm going to leave that for dehellis, since he should have a source for that..
Gary
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I just happened to think, I don't know if you have the E1000, or E2000 hopper board.. I gave you the layout for the E2000.. If you have the E1000 then I would think the problem is with the Mac 15-6 triac.. The manual shows you both in the back pages..
Gary
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Those relays can be somewhat difficult to find but you can order one here
https://wellgainelectronics.com/reed-relays/35341-hamlin-he321a0400.html
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Great I ordered both parts, thanks guys :)
I checked the TRIACS, and they are good,
CR1 looks good, anything else?
Yes Amechanic you are right its an E1000 series Hopper PCB
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Did the hopper have the correct amp fuse? I think they are 8 amp, or are the 5 amp :Scratch-Head:.. Crap now I need to go check.. :nerd:
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The fuse is supposed to be 5A, and its right, Ive gone through 5 trying to trigger and fire the motor.
I took the PCB out, checked the TRIACS and they are fine. I replaced them anyways, but still the same issue.
I'm only reading 6 Ohms across the two terminals of the motor, is that right?
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Not sure what that should read, but you can test run the hopper motor by hooking it up to 110v. Just make sure that you have the hopper board removed and unplugged or you will see smoke!! YEA I DID IT ONCE!! :duh:. I have an old extension cord with two alligator clips I use to test hopper motors.. I Hook it to the motor leads and plug it into a power strip with an on/off switch. Turn the strip on and it should run. Always test the hopper out of the machine with the hopper board removed.
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This is just crazy, Motor spins fine, and I forgot to take the quarters out of the hopper so it spit them out on my bench :)
What am I missing?! I replaced both TRIACs, and this just seems silly, such a simple board and circuit.
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Maybe typing this out will make it jump out.
To Spin the Motor Manually, I connected Live to one side, and Neutral to the other, works as I expected.
According to the Wiring Diagram, 1 side of the motor is connected to Pin 8 through the fuse, and the other is also connected to live but through pin 5. How can that be?
If you look at the schematic, pressing the Test Button will RLY2 will turn on Q2, and effectively short both terminals of the motor.
My point is where is the return, I have attached a picture of what i mean.
If you engage RLY1, you are just connecting L - L, through the fuse and the motor.
I dont see this switch on the side of the hopper in my wiring diagrams or schematics, does anyone know what this is for?
Thanks,
Jason
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So its only blowing fuses when you hit a payout, or when the machine is powered on? Some of the earlier Ballys had a small board usually behind the hopper and right next to the beau plug for the hopper. It's a relay board and has a white molex plug attached to it. You could check your wires on the back of the hoppers female beau plug to make sure nothing grounding out.. Have you checked the Triac on the I/O that controls the hopper?
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Yeah it only blows the fuse when It pays out.
I looked at the relay board this morning, its fine, guess next step is back to the IO board.
Jason
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Back to the beginning,
Guess i'll walk away from it and come back... reassembled everything, this last time, and lights on, and nothing all over again...sigh... :banghead:
Jason
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Microswitch on the side of the hopper is the overfill switch. Once the hopper fills with coins, it will send a signal back to the system which will then divert the coins that go thru the comparitor around the hopper and down to the chute that fills the cabinet.
Unless you plan to fill the hopper to the top, I would suggest you remove that switch. Just more stuff you don't need.
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Question.. In your very first post you mentioned two gray wires that were hooked together. Did you ever figure out what they were? I don't think you ever posted a picture of that. Were they in the cabinet or on the reels assembly.
Gary
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According to the wiring Diagram, those two wires are for the Hinge Switch. How ever I'm not clear if that switch is responsible for the open door error code or not.
There is also another switch on the right side of the machine which is triggered by a stadard key locking mechanism. Does that need to be closed? or does the state of that switch not matter?
Thx,
Jason
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You might be getting your door open error message because you jumpers the relay on the MPU. As for the key lock on the right side is used to clear any large jackpot that require a hand payment.
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Ok were all good!!
Everything si working now and its paying out correctly!!!
I forgot to plug the relay board back in when I last assembled it... sigh... :hissyfit:
Thank you guys for all of your help. I'll be donating to this website for al the great help :)
Jason
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Glad to hear its fixed!! :applause: it's been a fun.
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I just want to say thank you one more time to the community for all the help, great bunch of people :thank_you:
It was nice that I brought this Machine home exactly one week ago today, and it's already up and running.
Out of all that I wanted to do a revised summary in case anyone else wants to learn from this past week.
Final Summary:
Symptom: Lights were on when I plugged in the machine, but it wouldn't take money, and aside from the sound of the high voltage starters, there was nothing but crickets.
Bad Components:
1. RLY 1 on the MPU board went bad, which controls the reset to the processor, which means the Main Processor Unit was not alive.
a. Quick Fix to test - Jumper the open contacts of the relay between U5 Pin 11, and U28 Pin 16.
2. The 3.6V Batt for the memory was leaking so I removed and ordered a new one. Yes the machine runs without the battery in case you were wondering.
Continued Testing.
1. Once the RLY was replaced the machine boot up and seemed ready to play.
2. The machine accepted coins and the Pull Handle mechanism wasn't working.
a. After tracing the wiring harneess to the IO board, and a few conversations with the community, I found that the
previous person that tried to repair the machine connected the Solenoid to the Handle release mechanism to the wrong connector.
b. The Solenoid for the handle release circuit goes to the IO Board, Q16, which is J1 Pin10.
3. I also removed the IO Board, The MPU Board, and the RAM Board from the Machine, and connected them one at a time to my Huntron Tracker 2000.
a. I quickly went through the boards looking for shorts, and didn't find anything out of the ordinary.
b. I removed all of the electrolytics, and measured them with my LCR Meter. I tested them with my Huntron first, but second test never hurts :)
c. After that I cleaned and reflowed the connectors, and especially the headers pins from the MPU to the RAM PCB.
d. I also removed and reseated all of the socketed ICs.
4. I reassembled everything and the machine seamed to be working fine.
a. Then I hit a payout on the reels and blew the hopper fuse.
b. This problem is still bugging me.
c. The usual suspect for the E1000 Series Hopper PCB are the TRIACS Q1, and Q2.
d. I removed them and tested them and they seemed fine, however I replaced them any ways.
e. I checked the rest of the board, its a small circuit and still I was blowing fuses when I hit a payout.
f. I tested the motor by applying 110 directly to the two terminals to see if it would spin, Please do not try this if you dont know what you are doing!
g. The motor was fine, and then I removed the relay board located directly behind the hopper.
h. I tested and cleaned the relay and hopper board, reassembled and it's alive!!!! :propeller:
It took a week between gaining proficiency with this awesome electro-mechanical device, but with the help of the community, and some schematics, I was able to get this done quickly.
Thanks again everyone, I look forward to my next slot machine repair.
Anyone know if there is a similar model to this one that has as I would call it Vegas Sounds? Sounds when the reels spins and a cool payout noise. The noise for the current machine sounds like you are getting electrocuted :(
Jason
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It sound like the sound board in your machine has a issue. They didn't have the greatest sounds when they worked, kind of like an old video Atari game system from the 80's. I have one that works and I'll try to get a short video of it tomorrow. If they don't work correct, they sound like a combination of finger nails on a black board, and a cat thats had its tail stepped on.. :24:
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Were you able to take a video?
I wasn't sure this one has a sound board, unless it located in the upper part behind the glass?
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I tried a couple time to upload the short video here, but I keep getting an error message. If you PM me your email address I can try forwarding it to you. As for the sound on your machine, the sound board is in the top box behind the glass.
Gary
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Thanks AMechanic,
Ive been busy with work so haven't had a chance to work on anything. I finally had a chance to replace the relay and the battery. Now im getting a Tilt and error code 41. I took the battery out because the reset wasn't clearing the error, and after a single spin it and the error code 41 is back.
Seems to be the nature of the beast, fix one thing, another thing breaks :duh: .
Any direction on this would be helpful, I'm hoping I don't have to rip the reel assembly apart... error 41 says it can't read the first reel... and when I pulled the handle... it just spins and spins ...
Anyways thanks again for all the help
P.S. I just sent a donation to the site, absolutely worth it, I wish I could do more :thank_you:
Jason
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Your error code is an indication of a problem with the reel reader card in slot #1
try swapping that card from 1 over to 3 and see if the error moves with it. You will
likely get an error code 43.
I have written some test procedures for testing these cards and placed them on another
members website,you can find those instructions here
http://www.coinslots.com/tips/bally-e-series/ (http://www.coinslots.com/tips/bally-e-series/)
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Thanks Dhellis :)
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One other item is to check the reader openings as
dust will block the light and cause them to fail.