New Life Games LLC
**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games => Topic started by: BasementCasino on August 09, 2018, 07:40:23 AM
-
[EDIT: This thread is not yet completely resolved. Although, there are some great photos and insight into the functioning of a coin comparitor and S/PLUS standard coin-in process. ]
Hey NewLifeGames members! I'm a new member and just bought my first REAL slot machine. I've had tons of Pachislo slot machines. My current "BasementCasino" collection includes a craps table, 4 Pachislo slot machines, and my newest addition - Double Red White & Blue by IGT (S-plus).
___
Machine needing help:
IGT
Model: B 51290
Desc: S/Plus
MFD: 6/90
Other: 25¢ coin slot only, no bill acceptor, no printer, slant-to-back square top, vertical credit display (not horizontal - no mini lcd screen - no players card slot).
___
I picked this RWB machine off Craigslist for $160! Wow is it awesome. It was broken, but only really had 2 issues. Having no experience whatever with 'real' slot machiens - I immediately bought a reset chip off eBay and started flipping every dipswitch I could find... Ha, just kidding. I don't feel that'd be such a good idea.
The first problem was that the machine would not pay the cash out. It would candle error and quit. I researched some YouTube and this forum (you guys are awesome!) and quickly disassembled the hopper and found the "coin knife" tip was not lifting up coins properly. After some careful work with a razor, I reshaped the knife to lift tokens again. Problem solbed - confidence level soaring.
That high was soon met with my discontent in trying to solve the second issue:
:banghead: PROBLEM :banghead:
1. The credit display window is the upright display on the right-hand side of the machine. The machine functions flawlessly (as far as I know) but does not display the "Coins played", "Credits", and only displays a constant "0" in the "Winner Paid" display. The upright display looks similar to this (poorly edited) diagram, the dashes being a blank dusplay number.
________________
Winner Paid
0 - - -
- - - -
Credits
Coins Played -
________________
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=899)
[EDIT: Photo added to more clearly show the issue with Credit Display]
The machine does keep track of credits, wins, and cashes out correctly. (Player has to keep track of wins and credits in their head, ugh). One other detail - the machine accepts up to 3 credits (physical quarters) before it eats any additional money added. 4th coin with be taken but not given credit, then hopper returns a coin for overpay. 5th coin or more just drops into hopper without being recognized at all.
[EDIT: the issue of 4th and 5th coins dropping into the hopper, as well as foreign coins dropping into the hopper is resolved later in this thread by means of adjusting the coin comparitor rake.]
Also note: The coin comparitor does not light up green, but functions appropriately, as far as I know. Compares quarters, tokens, nickels, other appropriately for credit - but does allow them to drop into hopper.
[EDIT: the issue of the coin comparitor not lighting up while the door is open, is results later in this thread by learning that the coin comparator does not light up while the door is open. ]
I purchased a new display board on eBay and it shipped immediately. I swapped out my original and the new board did LESS than the original, in that it displayed nothing at all. Swapping back and forth, the new board did nothing while the original still showed the constant "0" paid. I returned the eBay board and they sent me another... Same result. I suspect the boards were an aftermarket non-genuine part. Although, the part numbers did match.
So, what do I do next? Do I order another board from a different supplier? Is the display I'm seeing an error message, or does it indicated a issue with the wires' connections, or the board itself? Is it a sign of a greater problem?
I'll post pictures as soon as I get them uploaded and linked to this forum. (I'm new and basic functions are still trivial to me)
-
Welcome to NLG! :wave: :waving_flag:
That light on the coin comparitor only comes ON when the door is closed on an S+ machine. So not anything to worry about.
On the credit display board with the digital display, does it's wiring cable look in good condition? You can try posting a photo of the inside of the door in this area, maybe we can see something not right.
Is this a 3 coin max machine? Whatever the max bet per spin is the machine normally won't accept additional quarters past that. Any extra coins you insert should get returned to the coin tray on the front of the machine. You aren't supposed to be able to load up a bunch of quarters and then play for a while. However, if credit mode is turned on then all the wins from spins will go to the credit meter and you can play off them. (I think there are some SP chips that will allow you to insert extra coins, but that's not the normal thing)
What is the mpu board dipswitch setting? On some SP chips the dipswitch is disregarded, on other SP chips the dipswitch is active.
Have you removed the mpu board and checked it's condition, verified no liquid contamination or signs of battery leakage on the board? The smaller board that the mpu plugs into (motherboard) should be examined also.
Can you tell us what the machine's SP and SS chip numbers are? Just follow this easy procedure to find out:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2251.msg11326#msg11326 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2251.msg11326#msg11326)
EDIT- not able to follow this procedure to determine the SS and SP chip numbers because the digital display board is not working.
-
I’d like to see a picture of what your trying to describe. Your problem could be in the machines settings.
To ad a pic here just click on the line below this box, see my pic. The add your pics, but be aware the total pics size can’t exceed 1000K. I have found the best way to control my pictures sizes is to email my pics to myself using my IPhone. It asks me what size I want to send the pictures files.
-
Yes, it is fairly easy to add photos. Each individual photo has a max size of 1,000k (1 meg). You can add up to 5 photos per post/message. Photos really help us to see what you have.
Is it possible your machine is an S and not an S+ ?
-
It sounds like an S or early S+ machine. If his displays aren't working, he may not be able to see the numbers for his SP and SS chip, if it's an S+. You may need to look at the chips when you pull the MPU board.
Dave
-
I tried uploading photos, and my cell phone quality is too high and exceeds the 1K size. I will have to compress the images and upload them later.
The machine is certainly a S/PLUS. This is stamped on to the label on the side of the machine. See original post for full details of label stamp.
I am absolutely terrified to remove the mpu board to view the SP & SS chip. I also have a healthy fear of the jackpot reset key, per some horrific YouTube videos. I am willing to do so, with careful instruction and second opinion.
All of the wiring seems to be in fair condition, however I don't know what to expect anyways since this is my first machine. There are a couple of neatly tucked and disconnected wires that appear to be available for additional components. However I do not see any which Common Sense would say is damaged or missing
This is a 3 coin Max machine. It allows you to insert one, two, or three physical quarters and gives you credit for each. If you insert a fourth quarter, thereby overpaying, it will mechanically Hopper pay 1 coin refund dispense to the tray below. If you continue to add coins in excessive of 4, the overpaid coins will simply be eaten by the machine and deposit into the hopper without credit given.
Reject coins, such as the wrong denomination (e.g. pennies or nickels on a quarter machine) are not given any credit, but do drop into the hopper. :Scratch-Head: this seems unusual to me as they could cause a potential Jam.
Any win on the machine does accumulate as credits in the machine, it does not payout quarters unless you specifically cash out the winning accumulated credits. The machine does not allow you to load up credits in excess of 3, unless the credits are paid as a win.
As far as I know, the machine operates properly and will properly keep track of your winnings and credits.
:Please_Post_Pictures_2clr: I know you guys want pictures, I'll be able to get them tomorrow after work.
-
If you are not able to post photos then you can send them to me and I will get them posted for you. You can contact me by clicking on my username over to the left of this message. That will take you to a screen that lists my email address.
It is understandable to be apprehensive about removing parts from the machine. But there will probably be times when it has to be done, either by you or by someone that does it for you. It sounds like the coin comparitor has been rigged to force it to pass all coins. On the back of the coin comparitor is a part called the "rake". It's job is to force unwanted coins to return to the coin tray on front of machine. Sometimes people will jam open the rake or disable it somehow so that it is always in the "open" position, thereby allowing all inserted coins to pass thru to the hopper.
To check for this you will need to remove the coin comparitor and examine the backside of it. It is mounted with 4 plastic clips that hold it to the inside of the door. There is also a small wiring connector that plugs into it on the left side.
-
I have tried four different ways to post the images using two different image compression apps, email, and file type changing. I Surrender to failure.
ROKGPSMAN, I clicked your username but your email is hidden. You may contact me, similarly, by looking at my profile email.
I am going to upload pictures to my user profile, and attempt to link them here also.
-
Sound like there might be some changes that need to be done to some of your games settings. You will need to invest in the game chips need to do this. Are you saying if you put a nickel or penny in your coin slot it goes into the hopper? If it does you have a problem with your coin comparitor. It shouldn’t allow you to insert a 4th or 5th coin. They should be returned to the coin tray. The S+ slot machine will only allow you to play the max coins 3 and that’s it. The next generation IGT S2000 slot machine can be programmed to do that.
I have to email my self pics I take with my cell phone to control the pic size. The IPhone doesn’t give me a choice of mega pixels when I take pics. So I either cut and crop or email them back to myself, then it gives me the choice of the size of the file being sent.
-
.....ROKGPSMAN, I clicked your username but your email is hidden. You may contact me, similarly, by looking at my profile email.
That's odd you couldn't see my email address, I have it set to be visible.
I've emailed you.
You can also click on "private message" to the left of someone's post and send them a private message (pm) thru NLG.
And you can click on "mail this user" to the left of someone's post and send them an internet email.
Both of these should be visible to the left of all my postings.
-
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=903) (https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=899) (https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=900)(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=901)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=902)
-
Success! I uploaded directly to my profile album, then direct embed/linked to the forum.
Please advise for additoaddi photos.
Please note the "2689" on top of the cover/ housing for the board. ***Note I have not verified this number correctly identifies the internals.
Also know the numbers"2157" appear on a group of wiring plug (fourth down, just below the white push switch, the wire grouping is mostly red and orange).
-
See your photo belows with notes I've added.
In the first photo are those white connectors fully connected? Looks like the top 2 are angled to one side and not completely engaged.
On the coin comparitor photo I've put yellow arrows where the mounting clips are located. You can disconnect the wiring connector on left side of coin comparitor, then pull the coin comparitor toward you and remove it from the machine. This isn't difficult. Then you can examine the back of it, see why it isn't sending rejected coins to the coin tray.
I've also noted where the coin optics boards are located, just below the coin comparitor. The lower left corner of the coin optic board has a pushbutton switch that will add test credits to the machine. Pressing it should simulate a coin going thru the coin optics and put a credit on the machine. Then you can press the Spin button and the reels should spin. These test credits will be removed when you shut the door.
-
Here are a few pictures of the coin comparitor, that simply popped out with a pull from for plastic friction connections. Very simple to remove and replace.
Note that it will reject a quarter occasionally and diverted to the tray. However if you put in a coin of very dissimilar size - the penny, token, nickel, will pass through to the quarter Hopper.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=904)[size=78%]
Attached is also a photo of the slot that comparitor to feeds into.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=906)[/size]
-
The top two plugs are fully inserted, however they are slightly tilted due to being smushed against the two wire bundles in the door hinge area.
??? Is it normal that the wires are fed through and into the door to the right of the bulb starter? Should they be moved above the ''metal bulb panel" entirely to clear the smash point?
??? Also was I correct in assuming the brown and black "unconnected" wire plugs were four additional unnecessary accessories?
* Also, please pardon my absolute lack of terminology and jargon. I have no idea what to call anything so I make up my own words instead of calling it "silver thingy" and " wire thingy."
-
Look on the backside of the coin comparitor, see if the metal rake is jammed open. You should be able to pull it slightly and then it will spring back into position. Post photo if needed.
-
The rake /comb-like lever moves freely and returns to resting position.
[EDIT: although the rake could move freely, it was likely intentionally bent to avoid deflecting invalid coins.]
-
Would be good if we knew what your mpu board dipswitch settings are. And what your mpu board SP chip number is.
Ordinarily you would not have to remove the mpu board to find out these two pieces of information. There is a way to have the machine tell you the SP and SS chip numbers, and to tell you what the mpu dipswitch is set to. But that information gets displayed on the front display, and since yours is not working then you can't do it that way. May need to remove the mpu board and find out that way. Unless someone else has a better suggestion to try.
The normal/default position for the rake is in the "reject coin" position. So coins inserted should get sent to the coin tray on front of machine unless the rake solenoid gets activated and pulls the rake out of the way so the coin drops thru and down into the coin optics boards, then on to the hopper. Examine the coin path metal chutes and slides, see why the coins are not getting sent to the coin tray. With power turned off all coins should go back to coin tray.
Have you tried pressing the white TEST button just to see what happen on the front display?
I don't know if those 2 disconnected connectors on the inside of the door are important.
If it looks like those larger wiring harnesses are routed wrong and they can easily be routed better so they don't press against those white connectors then I'd do it. Is there a photo showing them?
I'm trying to address your questions but on some I have to do some checking first, don't want to post wrong or misleading answers.
-
Regarding "TEST MODE", as activated by the white test switch:
What are the guidelines for using test mode?
I assume the machine has to be turned on when the button is pushed. I see it being used to display information via the credit display board in many YouTube videos.
I want to be sure that by entering test mode without being able to read the display Dash I'll be just as easily able to exit test mode.
Do you exit test mode by shutting off the machine? What happens if you shut off the machine while in test mode?
-
The TEST mode is easy to exit, you just shut the door. It is fool-proof as far as I know. Repeatedly pressing the TEST button steps thru the menu system, you should see the menu steps displayed on the front display. When pressing the TEST button like this you are only viewing the test step settings, not changing them. You have to press other buttons or turn the reset switch on the side of the machine to actually make any changes. This is all covered in the IGT document for your SP chip, whatever that is. There are some general TEST mode instructions in the S+ Sticky Notes and How-To Guides.
Here is one write-up that is for SP1271 but it is typical of most SP chips:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=514.msg1717#msg1717 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=514.msg1717#msg1717)
Did you verify that the wiring cable from the credit display is in good condition and connected properly at the other end?
-
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=907)
Upon removing the coin mechanism entirely, I discovered the rake is able to move freely. However, someone has bent The Rake in a way to keep it from entering the path of the coin regardless of whether or not it is engaged.
I am going to bend the rake forward so that it freely moves into the path of the coin while at rest, then is removed from the path of the coin when engaged by the comparitor.
-
Yes, that is what I meant earlier when I said check the rake to see if it has been forced or jammed open. That is why your bad coins are not getting sent to the front coin tray. People sometimes do this to the rake to "fix" a problem they can't figure out. But it allows a variety of different coins to end up in the hopper and that can cause hopper coin jams. Normally the rake goes all the way into that slot and rests against the interior coin path wall. That way it causes the coin to be sent to the reject route. Only when a coin is inserted that matches the sample coin does the rake get activated and move out of the way. Normal resting position of the rake is to reject the coin.
Also, on the front lower-right corner of the coin comparitor is a sensitivity adjustment. Use a small screwdriver and turn this all the way CCW (to the left). This will reduce or eliminate nuisance good coin rejections. In the casino they set this adjustment high so quarter-sized slugs won't get accepted, but for home use we want it to be set to minimum sensitivity.
-
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=908)
YES! YES! YES! :thank_you: :thank_you: :thank_you: FIXED.
The Rake was bent out of place and at no point would ever engage any coin. Upon straightening the rake out, it now engages every coin when powered off, and is selective in coin passage when on. Previously it was not selective as to which coins would pass into the hopper, but only selective as to which coins were counted for credits.
Now I have a fully functioning coin comparitor, thanks to ROKGPSMAN !
Works great!
_____________________
Now for that test button... I have pressed the white test button with the door open and heard a slight click of the machine. The display did not change from the photo shown previously.
Note, the display will blink off once when resetting after the door is closed.
-
Good job on the rake repair. :cool_thumb_up:
Repairs on a machine are often step by step by step.
The blinking on the display that you see when you shut the door is a good sign, I think that means your door optic sensors are working ok. One less thing to worry about.
Not sure but the click you hear when you press the TEST button may be the pull handle locking solenoid releasing so the handle can be pulled downward. Pretty sure that is normal and not anything to worry about.
If the front display does not show anything when you press the TEST button then you have to get that display working. Won't be able to use the TEST button and access the Setup/Options/Diagnostics menu system very easily otherwise.
Just to show you something, try pressing the little button in the lower left corner of the coin optic board below the coin comparitor. That should add a test credit to the machine (the same as if you inserted a quarter during normal game play mode when the door is shut). Then press the Spin button and see if the reels spin. All this is done with the door open. This little button is used for testing, is helpful when there are coin acceptance and coin handling problems.
-
Wow, I can't thank you enough. I love that the rake kicks the coins back. Previously if you had stuck in a quarter and it didn't give you credit - it "eat" it. This would cause the player to lose money. Granted no one is playing for actual cash, but it was very frustrating nevertheless. Solved.
_________
I went down and opened the door. I use the small white switch on the comparitor coin optic board and it did load up to three coins for play. I spun the reals and reloaded a few more coins via the button and spun again. By coincidence I hit a rather impressive payout. Upon closing the door, the door Optics blinked as before and the Machine reset. (I also lost the winnings credits from the comparator button play)
Player play has resumed as usual.
Now the only problem left is that pesky display.
-
Yes, I think your machine is mostly working. Just need to figure out what the deal is with that display. In your earlier posts it sounded like you weren't sure about the display boards being genuine?? Was the replacement display board sold as a tested and working board? You can post photos of the orig display board and the replacement, we might see something. How does it get connected with wiring, does that look ok all the way to the other end?
Sounds like fixing the rake took care of that problem where the 4th or 5th inserted coin would go to the hopper but you didn't get a credit. After 3 coins are accepted then any additional inserted coins should get rejected back to front coin tray. This includes quarters. (there is an exception to this when the machine has a particular SP chip, but it isn't the usual one installed).
Those test credits you put on the machine with the coin optics board test switch (it is also called the "pseudo coin" switch) will get removed as soon as the door is closed, as well as any credits won. Otherwise someone working in the casino could put some credits on the machine for their friends. :garfield:
-
I figured that the coins loaded into the machine using the coin optic button would not endure back as live play. I just found it funny that it happened to hit well - then swiped it all away as the door shut. Hehe.
Yes, all issues involving fourth and fifth coin, pennies nickels tokens, etc are now resolved after adjusting the rake back into an operable position. In fact, my first repair to the machine was having to modify the hopper knife. The very teeny tip broke off, likely due to a fat token that had made it past the disabled rake. I quickly learned that although you can adjust the comparator to accept anything from pennies to tokens, the rest of the mechanisms of the machine are not made to do such things.
The display board I received via eBay did not show any signs of lighting up when installed into the slot machine. At first I was surprised because the original still has the "0" as shown in the pictures previously.
I emailed the eBay seller under the suspicion that the board was simply defective. They immediately sent a second replacement board to me and I got the same result. Keep in mind both boards were from the same supplier, so they could both be junk or they're all consistently made wrong. When the eBay seller sent me the second board, they hooked it up to power and send me a picture of the board with each digit showing 8s to indicate the displays worked. ***However that does not necessarily mean that the displays correctly interact with a S plus slot machine***
My guess would be that it was a problem with my machine, EXCEPT that the original board at least this displays something. If the new board was truly the same part, it should behave the same, thus producing the same error
-
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=910)
Here is a picture of the original display board, connected while the machine is running with the door open.
The single 0 shown, is the same as when the door is shut. Note that the zero does blink off when the machine resets after closing the door.
I will post a picture of the other boards in just a moment.
-
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=911)
Original board is on left, and has the foam insert.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=912)
Original board is on left.
-
Your logic and thinking about the display boards may be correct but I'm thinking there is a greater chance that something else is going on. Some of the S+ parts sellers on ebay are members here, can you post a link to the ebay transaction? If it is one of our guys then to me that is even more reason to trust that the replacement boards are ok and something in the machine is wrong.
Since the machine otherwise works fine then it could be a credit display databus problem from the mpu, then thru the motherboard and then to the credit display board. If the wiring and cabling from the display board is ok then I think you are going to need to pull out the mpu and examine it and the motherboard also. There could be one bad connector or connector contact that is the problem. One edge of the mpu board has 2 large connectors with lots of contacts, one could be bent or broken off.
When you have time it might be good to go back and reread all the posts in this (your) thread. I've added a few things to my prior posts, I like to make them more complete for others that come along later and read them when trying to solve problems with their machine. So sometimes if you read something and think "Why did he expand on that, I know how it works" it is for the benefit of others that may be less familiar.
-
Here's a screenshot of the item I purchased. I prefer to screenshot, since in no time the link to an eBay posting would be broken for future viewers.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=913)
And here's the seller information:
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=914)
-
Those 2 boards look legit to me. Why does the original board have that foam stuff on it? Is it to help block the background light so the board's digital displays look better? Or is it packing foam someone left on there? If it is black conductive electronic foam sometimes used in shipping electronic boards then it should be removed since it is conductive.
I don't recognize the ebay seller's username but his 100% rating is encouraging. Let's see what others have to say about the non-working credit display, there are lots of S+ people here that know far more about them than I do. Give it a day or two, many of the NLG experts have jobs or businesses that keep them busy so they don't get to login as often as the retired guys like me.
You mentioned that some of the wiring harnesses that go from the door to the main cabinet are mashed or being deformed. Some of that wiring is for that credit display. May want to take a closer look at the wiring, back sure no wires have been pinched and broken or have the insulation scraped off and are now touching the metal chassis. Also unplug those large white connectors where the door wiring harnesses connect to the mpu assembly, look at the pin and sockets inside the connectors.
I would follow that wiring cable from the credit display board back to where it goes in the main part of the cabinet. Make sure the wires are ok. And at each connector along the way I'd check the contacts inside the connector.
-
I found this troubleshooting diagram for an S+ regarding the display board. Not sure it exactly applies to your machine because the representation of the display board has an extra digital display. But maybe it will give you an idea of how the display is controlled. The data and control for the display originates in the mpu board and goes thru the motherboard to the display board. So if the wiring cable for the display board is ok then the problem is likely in the mpu board or the motherboard. I think this display board should always work, there isn't a TEST/Setup menu setting that disables it.
-
Update: The machine plays, pays, holds and counts credits, cashes out, and (thanks to ROKGPSMAN) now correctly uses the comparitor coin in.
The :banghead: PROBLEM :banghead: still remains:
The credit display board does not show the correct values.
I have no experience working with computer boards of any kind, aside from unplugging and plugging in the display board on the slot machine.
:money: I paid $160, from a guy who was frustrated with the aforementioned display issue. However it plays great! I don't plan to sell it, but I'd like to know how good of a deal I've gotten.
What is this machine worth as is (with no credit display)?
What is this machine worth if credit meters are working properly?
:money:
-
I mustered up enough courage to take the board out.
Here is an overview of the board, and what I assume you may have meant by dip switches.
I have gone through the machine entirely and snugged up every plug connection the hand. Nothing felt loose and it did not change anything.
I'm impressed by how clean the inside of this machine is. I found only a single strand of cobweb when removing the board.
Closely examining the board, I do not see any residue, liquid, rust, wear, or loose pieces.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=918)
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=917)
Note: BlueBlue Dipswitch on board has (1,2,3 ON) (4,5,6,7,8 OFF).
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=919)
-
.....Here is an overview of the board, and what I assume you may have meant by dip switches.
Note: BlueBlue Dipswitch on board has (1,2,3 OFF) (4,5,6,7,8 ON).
Actually it looks like dipswitches 1,2,3 are ON and the others are off. The little white rocker miniswitch is pressed in at the top of the dipswitch to select the ON setting. These settings on the dipswitch set your max hopper payout to a programmable level, they set your sounds to ON and they set your game speed to NORMAL. Switches 5-8 are for a progressive jackpot and they are all set to OFF because the machine does not have that feature. Since it says max hopper payout=programmable that means you can set it in the white TEST/Setup menus.
EDIT- later we found out that the mpu has a SP1227 chip and it does not use the dipswitch, so it doesn't matter what the dipswitch settings are.
Yes, your mpu looks in good condition and clean.
I think anything under $200 for a clean and nearly working machine with all its parts is a really good deal. The problems it has can be fixed and you will have an enjoyable machine for years to come.
That yellow tape across the large chips is casino security tape. They do that so they will know if the machine has been tampered with. For home use you can remove that tape if you want to. Might want to warm it a little so it loosens easier. Two of those large chips under the yellow tape (the ones with labels) are the SP and SS chips. The other large chip is the cmos ram chip, it holds important data that the machine needs, the battery on the mpu keeps the cmos ram chip alive even when the machine power is turned off.
The SS and SP chips determine how your machine operates, what win percentage it has and what game is installed in the machine (Red, White, Blue). If you can read the chip labels thru the yellow tape we can tell you more about your machine. The numbers on the labels will be something like "SPxxxx" and "SSxxxx".
-
On the edge of the mpu board are 2 large white connectors. Look at them carefully, make sure all of the metal pins (electrical contacts) are good, that none of them are bent or broken off. There's a bunch of them, so take your time. Something is keeping the digital display from working, it could be something with the mpu board or the motherboard or the wiring cable from the display board that connect to the motherboard.
Also, can you post a closeup photo of this part of the mpu board circled in yellow below? It almost looks like there is a jumper for a setting option there and that nearby large chip is one of the communication chips (perhaps the serial data chip for the display board but I'm just thinking out loud?)
-
Excellent observation on the dip switches. I've corrected my original post to reflect your ON/ OFF designation.
Realizing that the switches are truly pressed down and toggle like a seesaw, I understand the dip switch. (Told ya I was entry level with no experience :fryingpan: [size=78%])[/size]
I will proceed to carefully remove the tamper tape and take a few close up pictures of the boards, I will also know the correct SSxxx and SPxxx numbers.
Once we know these SS and SP numbers, does that mean they are unique to how the machine pays out and operates? Such that, if you were to replace the one corresponding to payout percentage, with a similar chip of a different number it would behave differently, but appropriately? OR are the payout controls managed and programmable within the white test button menu with the use of a jackpot key? My guess is the latter.
-
Don't worry about it, you aren't the first person to misread the dipswitches, it happens more than you think. Your dipswitch is set to the usual settings, so we can check that off the list.
Yes, the SS and SP chips are what determine the operating of the game. The SS chip sets the player winning percentage, it can range from about 85% to about 97% depending on what the casino ordered from IGT. There are many SS chips for your game, you can replace it if you want to lower or raise the win percentage. And the SS chip is where the specific Red, White & Blue game software is. You can replace it if you ever want a totally different game in your machine, but would need to change out the glass and the reel strips too.
The SP chip is sort of like the operational software for the machine, it contains the Setup and Options choices. Knowing the SP number will tell you what those options are. It also contains tests that you can run to check different things on your machine.
-
Zoomed in photo of the chip you requested. This is not a new photo, buy just a magnified of the original.
I will take new, unique photos of each chip including the S P & S S when I return home in a few hours.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=920)
DOH! It would be upside down... Ha.
-
Thanks! See those 2 jumpers marked "E7" and "E9" ? We need to find out what they are for. Might be related to the display board not working.
A jumper is 2 or 3 metal posts that can have a metal clip added across 2 of the posts to make a connection. Having the clip installed or not installed makes a selection on what the jumper does.
It looks likes one of the posts on jumpers E7 and E9 is bent over to touch the other pin, maybe to try making a connection without using a clip?? Maybe someone lost the clip and did this. But that is a flaky way to make a connection. Check it out and see what you think.
-
None of those pins should touch anything - no jumper wires
I would straighten those out.
-
Thanks Mark! Do they have anything to do with the digital display board on front of machine? What are your ideas on why his display board is not working?
-
Have no idea what those are for. If they are touching that could be causing it I guess.
I see now it is an early s+.
-
Post deleted: It is an early s+ with different display.
-
If you look at the schematic on reply #32 you will see that the center line far left says Data Display. I can’t tell if it’s U40 or U46 on the MPU Board. I would try to meter the wires from the display plug to the plug going to the MPU to eliminate a broken wire since you have stated they look like the door has pinched or smashed those wires.
As for you display boards I would tend to think the differences come from different venders who make the boards. The black foam may be a factory install that was meant to be swapped to a replacement board. But over time the foam fuses to the display board making it impossible to remove.
You might want to consider sending that MPU and display board into KLar in Vegas. Alan there does great work on these early style boards and has the correct testers to check your boards for problems. You can reach him at 702-363-9998.
Rokgpsman is it possible to get a better view of what MPU chip that is in that schematic in post #32? That way we can look at that chip on his MPU. The trouble shoot part of post 32 does say to try a replacement MPU or Mother board, so maybe there is a bad connection on the mother board?
-
Here is a photo of the E7 and E9 area.
E7 has an intentional solder.
E9 has an intentional solder.
E7 AND E9 pins rising from the board do not touch from E7 to E9 in the air.
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=924)
-
The "black foam" on the display board was likely for light blocking. It has been removed and discarded for good measure.
The casinos tampered tape has been removed and the underlying chips revealed.
SS4712
SP1227
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=925)
-
I don’t think E7 or E9 are you problem, and I have seen this done on other boards. It just insures a good connection over the jumper clips.
-
(https://newlifegames.com/nlg/MGalleryItem.php?id=927)
Note: as I was reviewing the board mounted to the bottom of the cabinet, perhaps this is called the motherboard?, I noticed that there is an open ground connector on the base of the cabinet not in use. This connector is shown in the picture. It is the screw with the red sleeve in the bottom right.
I also noticed above that, in slots five and six of this black tray, there is a red and then a separate black wire both independent of one another but disconnected or cut off.
-
I’m sure those cut wires were connected to some sort of casino data wires that were just cut off shorts when the machine was taken out of service. Very common thing, it’s faster to cut then to unhook.
-
.....The casinos tampered tape has been removed and the underlying chips revealed.
SS4712
SP1227
The SS4712 chip is shown on this NLG S+ game page (link below). Does it match the glass on your machine? As you can see in the chart the SS4712 chip has a player win percentage of about 90%. The chart also shows that the reel strips are all 3 different, this is indicated by the strip code "ABC". If you ever wanted to change the win percentage to a different percentage you'd just install a different SS chip from this chart.
http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%203CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(3%20Coin%20Mul.htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%203CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Double%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(3%20Coin%20Mul.htm)
Your SP 1227 document is attached below, it will give all the settings options and diagnostic tests available in that chip, plus other info:
-
If you look at the schematic on reply #32 you will see that the center line far left says Data Display. I can’t tell if it’s U40 or U46 on the MPU Board. I would try to meter the wires from the display plug to the plug going to the MPU to eliminate a broken wire since you have stated they look like the door has pinched or smashed those wires.
As for you display boards I would tend to think the differences come from different venders who make the boards. The black foam may be a factory install that was meant to be swapped to a replacement board. But over time the foam fuses to the display board making it impossible to remove.
You might want to consider sending that MPU and display board into KLar in Vegas. Alan there does great work on these early style boards and has the correct testers to check your boards for problems. You can reach him at 702-363-9998.
Rokgpsman is it possible to get a better view of what MPU chip that is in that schematic in post #32? That way we can look at that chip on his MPU. The trouble shoot part of post 32 does say to try a replacement MPU or Mother board, so maybe there is a bad connection on the mother board?
That schematic diagram in reply#32 was from an older S-Plus manual, the mpu board in that manual is listed as p/n 755-057-10 and 755-057-0X. The motherboard in the manual is 759-039-0X. As you know the "X" means any digit, some boards have slightly different part numbers but are considered equivalent.
EDIT-
Here are better copies of that drawing posted in reply#32. There are 3 chips used on the mpu to make the 3 data signals that go to the door display board. It looks like the display board needs 5 signals to work: VB voltage and ground, STB1 signal, DDO (display data output) and DCLCK (data clock). All of these signals come from the mpu board and then pass thru the motherboard and are then sent over wires to the display board mounted to the door.
-
Better images of schematic drawing for the door display board. It operates off the VB voltage from the machine, which is about 8 volts I think.
-
Better images of schematic drawing for the mpu display data out circuit that goes to the door display board.
-
Have we had him check the pins on the edge connector of the MPU to the Mother Board for a bent or possible broken pin? It is also possible that at one time someone moved this game with coins in the hopper. This could have caused a short on the mother boards trace on the bottom of that board. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve pulled $2.00, $5.00 or more in change spilled around boards.
-
I think I mentioned earlier about checking the condition of the display board wiring cable, from the motherboard to the display board. So I thought it had been looked at but maybe not specifically for bad connections with spread female contacts or broken off male pins. The original display board showed a lit "0" so I figured the VB voltage and ground was getting to it, that the problem was missing data or strobe & other control signals. Without a mpu or motherboard to swap in to the machine it is harder to decide what can be causing it.
-
Looks like those jumpers on the mpu board (E7, E8, E9, E10) that have the posts bent and soldered together are part of an optional printer interface that was never implemented on the S+ as far as I know.
The mpu board in his machine is an older 10mhz model, not quite the same as the mpu boards we usually see. His mpu is part number is 755-057-04.
EDIT- I was reading thru the document for SP1227 and it says that the mpu dipswitch is not used with SP1227 chip installed. So disregard the dipswitch chart on the mpu metal tray.
-
I've reread the discussion thread and have come back to these 2 disconnected wiring cables that you mentioned early on. Do either one of them have 5 wires? If so do the wire colors match the same colors as the wires connected to the display board that is not working? Wanted to make sure neither of these disconnected cables is the other end of that door display board cable.
With the mpu removed you can see the wiring that lays along the cabinet wall and drops downward to plug into the motherboard. Have you looked closely at that wiring? That is where the door display board wires connect to the motherboard.
Like Amechanic mentioned you can use a meter to verify the 5 wires from the door display board connector are ok in getting to the motherboard. If they check out all the way from the door display connector to the motherboard connectors where the mpu plugs in then that would indicate the problem is likely with the mpu board.
-
I've done most of my homework.
I identified the cables leaving the display board and traced them through the door, into the cabinet, and to their respective connections. I carefully untwisted and sifted through the wires at the ''pinch point" where the door closes. Although the wires do get smushed, they don't appear to be damaged (coating is ok). They could be broken inside from repeated bending... No way to be sure without testing each (as you've mentioned.)
The two disconnected wire harnesses do not match the colors of the display. Those originate from down in the motherboard and don't appear to be for the display (but I don't know anything m, honestly).
I have checked the pins on the MPU / Motherboard connection. They're beautifully clean, straight, and uniform.
As for the "coins laying on the motherboard" idea: I purchased the machine in this condition and do not recall wiping out change from the base of the cabinet. I have taken special precaution NOT to touch or potentially connect anything, ever. In fact, taking off the MPU took courage in itself.
Regarding the chips. I'm really excited to.fimd out that it pays 89% and hits every 5 spins on avg. This is good to know. I'm glad it's a"fair amount" for home play.
Can the display board be plugged into another machine to test it? I assume there would be a very specific requirement- but it's possible, right?
Also, let's not forget this other odd phenomenon:
Upon ordering 2 replacement boards with matching part numbers and using each... They behave DIFFERENTLY than the original board! The 2 new ones are manufactured alike from the same supplier and neither light up whatsoever. This is odd to me, since the existing original board does always show the "0" in the winnings display. Why would these behave differently? Should I just order yet another display board from a different supplier?
-
Wire can break inside the insulation by repeatedly being bent or smashed in one location. Only way to know for sure is to use a voltage meter set up to check the continuity of a certain wire. You take the probes from the meter and touch the plug connection at each end, if you get nothing on the meter display you have a break in that wire. Putting your display board in a similar working machine is a preferred way to check it, but since that’s not currently an option we are back to the other options. Do you own a voltage meter? You can pick them up at places like Harbor Freight Tool for a reasonable price. Have you located what plug going to the MPU or Mother board the display wire are connected?
(edit to change "of" to "if" for clarity)
-
It is odd that the 2 new door display boards don't light up the "0" like your original board does. So it might be possible that both new boards aren't working but that seems like a longshot since the seller tested and showed you that they did light up when he applied power to them. Since they don't light up in your machine that makes me wonder if the door display board isn't getting power to it from your machine or if the wiring to the display board is bad. We don't have to worry too often about the wiring but you mentioned your wiring has been crunched in places so it is something that's a possibility. There could be a bad wire (or wires), only making contact intermittently.
You could try another display board from someone that sells parts here on NLG, they will do more for you and will ensure that it is a working display board. That would eliminate the possibility that you have 3 bad display boards. If it turns out later that all the display boards are good then you can resell them.
The display board needs power to operate, this is the "VB" voltage, I think it is about 8 volts or so, and a power ground connection. That would be 2 of the wires in that 5 wire cable. The other 3 wires are the data and control signals so the display board can display whatever the mpu wants it to show. Like you and Amechanic said, a wire can be broken inside even if its insulation looks ok. The only way to find out if the wiring is bad is to either replace the wiring or check it with a meter, and using a meter to check it is much easier.
The meter will have different abilities, like measuring a voltage. That would be good for checking the VB voltage right at the connector on the cable where it connects to the display board. And the meter will have what is called "continuity" or "resistance" or "ohm" ability. That is how the meter verifies that a wire is good from one end to the other end.
Another option that some people prefer is to try replacing boards because that is easier for them than using a meter to troubleshoot. You could try another mpu board, and another motherboard, in either order. That might be easier for you, but you'd have to buy the parts. You could end up with extra parts if that doesn't fix the problem, but having spare parts isn't a bad thing when we have these 25 year old machines. If you go this route you may find that one of the boards fixes the problem, and if it doesn't then you come back to checking the wiring.
-
I'll be sure to get the meter on the wire connections this week. Theres so much going on that It'll be a few days before I have the time to block out an hour of dedicated time to do so.
Thanks to all you for sticking with this thread while I continue to troubleshoot this darn"0" issue. Note: it consistently does show the"0" reliably on the original board.
-
I doubt that the +VB is missing, nothing would be displayed if that voltage was missing. the fact that the zero is on all the time leads me to believe that the board could be defective. the puzzling item is the other boards won't work either.
the boards are the same, someone just turned the plug from the upright position to the side position. I'm sure if you straightened out the pins and pushed the black connector down ,it would be factory.
If the machine operates 100% and you have no displays, then your problem is a wrong plug inserted on the motherboard, it's pulling down the strobe 2 signal and not allowing the data to be displayed.
Jim
-
[size=78%]If the machine operates 100% and you have no displays, then your problem is a wrong plug inserted on the motherboard, it's pulling down the strobe 2 signal and not allowing the data to be displayed.[/size]
Could you elaborate on how I can *harmlessly* test a solution to the aforementioned 'wrong plug' ???
In any circumstance, I would rather have a functioning machine without proper credit display than an expensive repair or paperweight! I do not want to attempt a repair that could render me machine useless, or to damage some critical part, etc.
-
do a visual inspection of the plugs and where they are plugged into! very simple, doesn't require any hazards. compare it to the attached.
-
This week someone else posted a photo of their S+ mpu board that is similar to yours, it has the jumper posts like your mpu board does at E7 thru E10, and E1 thru E6. On their board the jumpers posts are all left unconnected to each other. As Mark said back in reply#41 S+ boards don't normally have these jumper posts connected and they should be disconnected where they are soldered or jumpered together, just in case that is causing a problem.
I don't know if this is related to your display board not working but it's worth a try and easy to do. Just unsolder or cut the posts apart that are touching each other. The soldered jumper posts are near U18 and the other group of posts are near the large white connector at edge of board. As far as I know these posts are never used, so it is ok if you cut them to get them disconnected from each other. If some have a removable metal clip that will be easier. This will make your mpu board match what we normally see.
Do this to the posts we have been talking about, not any other jumper posts like the ones near the SS and SP chips.
Here is how the other person's mpu board looks pertaining to those jumper posts:
-
It's been a while...
My family and friends have been playing the slot "as is" for the last few months. All was good until this week when I struck a massive 1440 coin payout. The machine currently had the credits, but I'd like to cash them out.
My fear is that I'll accidently trip a Mac coin payout error, requiring a key reset.
How do I know what the limit is for payout? Remember, the display isn't working...
-
Take a picture of the mother board and its connections and post it, we will determine if any are misplaced.
Jim
-
Thank You!
I'm very grateful for all the help I've received here. . I've been enjoying my machine, even though the display doesn't work, so much that I've decided to purchase two more.
-
Shucks, I was hoping there was a fix at the end! :) I have the same "0" issue with two MPUs and two displays.
-
Start a new topic of your own and we'll help you fix it.