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TITO - Ticket in Ticket Out, Slot Toppers, Stands and Add-on Accessories => Bettor Slots TITO - Ticket in Ticket Out => Topic started by: techtoons on December 16, 2019, 12:15:35 PM
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Hi All,
Has anyone tried to get a bettor TITO running on an Aristocrat MK6 machine? I've got it running nicely on a Ballys and an IGT machine, and getting ready to try to get it working on my MK6 machines.
I've got two (Wicked Winnings and Timber Wolf). Timber wolf has a 9 pin d-sub, the Wicked Winnings does not have one visible.
Jim said he and someone else had tinkered with it unsuccessfully, but with this pool of folks, maybe someone else has made it work or has some tips?
Thanks
-Jay
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The Bettor TITO gadget is only designed to work on certain platforms as far as I know.
You might want to ask the distributor if they can make one for the Aristocrat MK6?
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It does not work with Bettor Tito deluxe. Aristocrat does not support SAS System validation, which is the only version supported by Bettor Tito. You need something that supports enhanced validation for the Aristocrat machines.
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Are there any docs on the Aristocrat protocol?
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I was doing some searching and found references to an SPC board to take Aristocrat's ASP protocol and convert it to SAS. The messages were a bit lean on any details. I found an SPC board on Suzo-Happ, and pictures of them around the web.
Anyone know about these, or can point me to the right place for more info?
-Jay
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Yes you do need that board in addition to a system that supports enhanced SAS validation, none of the TITO boards support that at this time. A member here is working on a Windows OS solution, it involves running software on a pc and connecting it to your slot machine through RS-232 right into that spc board. I have helped in the past testing it and it worked on my Aristocrat MKVII machine, so it will also work on an MKVI as they use the same protocols. Here's the link to one of his posts. His software supports enhanced validation.
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=23904.msg127435#msg127435 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=23904.msg127435#msg127435)
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Sounds like a good project, do you need an extra hand for testing? I'm fairly up on Windows programming (C#, Javascript, VB (old school)).
-Jay
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Rick, that link went to a Bally machine with Bettor Tito discussion, is that what you meant?
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I linked the post because the originator of the post is the author of Slots @ home program that works with Aristocrat machines. PM him about it.
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If someone can get me some SAS software for Ari MK6 I will have a go. I use the orange Pi Zero currently to talk QCOM to many brands of machines, and I want to implement SAS also, just dont have a SAS machine. Hopefully SAS game chips will work in an Aussie cabinet.
BTW, what system are you currently using for TITO?
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I use the bettor tito solution for all my machines. I only have one Aristocrat Viridian WS cabinet and for that I use the slots @ home program whenever I want to put in credits and don't want to use currency.
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If you can get this working you can put me down for two!
:agreepost:
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So I looked at the betor TITO stuff very briefly, and if the owner is keen to let me have a go, I can integrate to that system. Saves me having to redesign the whole system. I'll read up a bit more on it later on today.
BTW, if anyone can get me a copy of some SAS games for Ari MK6 I will start playing with it ASAP. Just need images of the ROMS, hopefully it will work in an Aussie cabinet.
I all ready have written a truck load of code for SAS protocol, so should be fairly straight forward.
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Most International Aristocrats AFAIK use ASP (Aristocrat Serial Protocol).
the SPC 2 board converts this protocol to SAS for systems that talk SAS only. Some systems can talk to both protocols.
Not sure if there is a SPC version that translates QCOM to ASP.
Have never found any protocol info on ASP and have not played with QCOM but since both originated in OZ is suspect there may be some similarities.
First prize would be a device that talks ASP so that members do not have to use SPC converters.
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Most International Aristocrats AFAIK use ASP (Aristocrat Serial Protocol).
the SPC 2 board converts this protocol to SAS for systems that talk SAS only. Some systems can talk to both protocols.
Not sure if there is a SPC version that translates QCOM to ASP.
Have never found any protocol info on ASP and have not played with QCOM but since both originated in OZ is suspect there may be some similarities.
First prize would be a device that talks ASP so that members do not have to use SPC converters.
ASP is actually really hard to get info on. I was looking at adding ASP to some stuff of mine at one stage, so I do have some vague docs on it somewhere, but not a full protocol spec. Once again, the problem for me is getting my hands on an ASP machine to test against.
Protocols that I am familiar with are SAS, QCOM, X-Series, VLC, plus a couple of older protocols that most people probably have not heard of.
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I see that BettorSlots is a moderator here. I tried to send a private message to see if James was keen to work with me on a solution but I I kept getting the following error.
One or more 'to'-recipients could not be found.
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I've been talking to Jim about getting my Aristocrat boxes to work with Bettor Tito. I use Bettor Tito boards on my Bally and IGT machines and it "just works." (applause for Jim!)
I'm trying now to get it going on the MK6 machines and heard about the SPC2 boards. That seems to be a better option that trying to roll my own, with very very scarce info on ASP. Now I need to get my hands on one (anyone here got a spare?)
--Jay
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Just looking back through some old paperwork, looks like I do have a copy of ASP protocol spec. Whilst I have not tested it yet, there is also an ASP simulator included, so I can possibly use that to test and debug. I'll go start reading to paperwork. I had intentions to also support ASP on some commercial software, so now is as good a time as any to start writing code.
EDIT. The sim software looks like its been stripped out by an email program, so once again would need game software to test. I'll poke around the MAME archives and see if I can find an ASP game for the mk6
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Bogan,
I'd be interested in taking a look at the ASP protocol. I also was wondering how you tell the difference between an ASP game and one that's not (Age? Copyright?)
-Jay
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Bogan,
I'd be interested in taking a look at the ASP protocol. I also was wondering how you tell the difference between an ASP game and one that's not (Age? Copyright?)
-Jay
I am covered under an NDA (I think, I will check) on the ASP stuff, so I cant really give up the info. However there is nothing stopping me writing code that uses it, and I can package that up into an application for people to use.
I dare say they best way to tell if the game is ASP is to hunt through the Audit menu's looking for clues. Pretty sure the port on the Mark 6 is called a DACOM port, but I am not 100% certain.
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FWIW, I have another thread running here: http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=26524.msg139360#msg139360 (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=26524.msg139360#msg139360) with details of what I am doing.
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I understand. no problem. :)
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I found a US romset so I am going to try it. Just need to figure out what system roms it requires. Hopefully it is a SAS based game and works in the cabinet I have. Fingers crossed.
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I am struggling to get the MK6 working with US SAS software. I dont fully understand the jurisdictional stuff you folk in the US have got going on. I am fairly certain I have some working SAS protocol machines in the test lab, so I will have a poke around in the new year. I might also chase up Ari and see if I can get some local software for the MK6 if they have any.
I also looked at the ASP stuff I have, its ASP1000, and looks like most of what is used around the world is ASP5000. I am not sure how different the 2 are either, as I really have not had much to do with ASP other than a brief on a job that never happened.
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You can use the SAS tester to do any type of TITO. And writing a program is not all that hard.
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You can use the SAS tester to do any type of TITO. And writing a program is not all that hard.
Since its so easy, Can you write a program that does Tito on an Ari MK6 running SAS and ASP and interface it to the Bettor TITO system then.
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I have ported most of my SAS code over to my new device now. My previous code was designed to run on microsoft platform, so its going to need some serious testing and tweaking!
In the new year I will head into the test lab and see if I can find a spare SAS machine to test it all on.
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EDIT: Looks like the forum keeps eating my posts. Not sure what the deal is with the size tags. Most post is mostly lost. I'll try edit what I wrote.
Ok, so its finally dawned on me what I think the actual problem is, the US game I set up uses the Gamma/GamPro protocol. I thought that most US games used SAS because that has been my experience with machines imported from the US (20+ years in the industry).
I have never heard of Gamma/Gampro, but it looks like a predecessor of G2S
The easiest solution would be to use the SPC converter, but where is the fun in that? I want to learn GamPro protocol. My plan was sniff off the serial port to see if there was any data, but its a polled protocol like most others, so I need something to talk to the machine so I can sniff the raw data.
I am curious now, so if anyone has any info on GamPro I would be interested in hearing from you. The next option is to buy an SPC2 converter, but they are a bit expensive in Aus. IF anyone has one that they dont wont, let me know.
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On our side of the planet there has been very little traction on G2S.
Most of my machines talks SAS and Aristocrats ASP or SAS via protocol converters. Mk7 onwards do talk Gamma but have never seen that on a MK6 here.
I do have the G2S protocol docs from the time they were truly open source. Membership fees to get to current protocols specs are stupid expensive.
You may also want to have a look as these guys who make their test software for G2S freely available - [size=78%]https://www.radblue.com/ (https://www.radblue.com/)[/size]
There are some online training modules for G2S standards here - [/size][size=78%]https://igacademy.com/courses/?course_tag=gsa (https://igacademy.com/courses/?course_tag=gsa)[/size]
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You can use the SAS tester to do any type of TITO. And writing a program is not all that hard.
Since its so easy, Can you write a program that does Tito on an Ari MK6 running SAS and ASP and interface it to the Bettor TITO system then.
Actually I most likely would be able to. I'm new here and am not familiar with the Bettor system. Although I do have a bit of experience with SAS and TITO. I wrote one for using a Keil MCB11U10. And I wrote IGT's SAS tester. Oh yeah, I invented many of the TITO functions in SAS.
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On our side of the planet there has been very little traction on G2S.
Most of my machines talks SAS and Aristocrats ASP or SAS via protocol converters. Mk7 onwards do talk Gamma but have never seen that on a MK6 here.
I do have the G2S protocol docs from the time they were truly open source. Membership fees to get to current protocols specs are stupid expensive.
You may also want to have a look as these guys who make their test software for G2S freely available - [size=78%]https://www.radblue.com/ (https://www.radblue.com/)[/size]
There are some online training modules for G2S standards here - [size=78%]https://igacademy.com/courses/?course_tag=gsa (https://igacademy.com/courses/?course_tag=gsa)[/size]
G2S uptake has been slow (non-existent) here too. The only mob I know that use it is Intralot, and they have a SMIB which converts all the other protocols to g2s.
so when you talk about the Ari machines running protocol converters, I think you will find that the protocol between the EGM and the converter board will be Gamma.
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Thanks on the tip for the Audit menu. Only issue now is that both my Aristocrat machines came though with door keys but no audit keys. :/
I need one of those first :)
-Jay
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As stated in the ARi thread, I cam across an SPC2.5. So over the next few weeks I will set up a machine with US Chips and the SPC and see if I can make sense of all of this.
Looking at doco for the SPC, it seems to me that its EGM -> GAMMA -> SPC -> SAS -> HOST SYSTEM. There is one GAMMA port on the SPC, and 2 SAS ports, which is pretty standard.
So the SAS part is no issue for me, worked with SAS before. But I am going to throw a comms sniffer on the GAMMA part and take a peek at what is going on.
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Somehow I missed parts of this thread earlier (holidays?).
TedG, writing a program sounds like a good challenge. I'm digging in with SAStest today to see what I get.
Thanks for the info.
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Update: I've installed an SPC 2.0 and an SPC 2.5 II board in my two machines. Using SASTest and Slots@Home, I've been intermittently able to either add credits (with slots@home), or validate a ticket to a specific value (Set in SASTest).
I'm looking to look over the transactions via a terminal program (Termie currently) to see if I can figure a few things out. My goal would be to have a screen my wife could just push a button and add credits.
On Termie, when I initialize the program, it gives a continuous stream of bytes. Depending on the port settings, it comes through either ??????? or two Hex bytes (can't recall exactly what, it was a couple of days ago.
I'm using baud rate of 19,200, 8bits data, parity bit (mark/space), and one stop bit. Two questions. Is this correct and what might the non-stop stream be? There is no machine activity (such as game start or finish).
--Jay
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SAS Comms require a start bit. The way most people do that is by using MARK/SPACE parity, then set the parity bit on for the first byte, then off for subsequent bytes.
It is notoriously unreliable in windows version after windows 95 because you cannot be sure of when the first byte of data is shifted out of the Transmit register.
Can you post up some of the data that is being streamed? Its been a while since I have worked with SAS, but it can be configured to send data unsolicited such as meter(s), however I am fairly sure you still have to poll it for that data.
SAS Protocol is pretty easy to find now if you search around on google.
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SAS Comms require a start bit. The way most people do that is by using MARK/SPACE parity, then set the parity bit on for the first byte, then off for subsequent bytes.
It is notoriously unreliable in windows version after windows 95 because you cannot be sure of when the first byte of data is shifted out of the Transmit register.
Can you post up some of the data that is being streamed? Its been a while since I have worked with SAS, but it can be configured to send data unsolicited such as meter(s), however I am fairly sure you still have to poll it for that data.
That seems to be the issue (start bit). Windows has been a pain in the butt since the beginning, with Microsoft's "we'll insulate you from the metal." Fine for game apps, but doing any serious inter-hardware communications.
In my early programming days I wrote a dll that let me talk to ports via assembly language from 16bit VB... then flat memory model happened and I gave up :)
The terminal program is a C# one from source forge. It takes in the stream until the buffer fills and it locks up. It just does 01 3F repeatedly. Here's what I see:
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01 3F looks like a long poll. 01 being the poll address of the machine, and 3F being the function code. 3f seems to be a poll for a bill meter, its an odd one. Not sure why sastest would be sending that.
The whole microsoft model with hardware is actually very good, even though it is a pain in the ass. The idea was to abstract drivers away to prevent system instability. Its still possible to talk directly to hardware, you just need to write a driver though. The biggest hurdle now is microsoft driver signing; they want to make sure your driver does not crash their OS.
I am going to set up a machine next week with the SPC card, and I will probably first connect it to SASTest to refresh my memory on the protocol. I might also have a play with doing the more advanced EFT stuff (cant remember what its called in SAS) and see if we can integrate it into the Bettor system.
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Bogan,
I'd like to understand how Bettor works a bit better myself, as I've got a Bettor deluxe I earmarked for the MK6 gathering dust. I haven't been able to send an EFT value from SASTest to the machine, only validating tickets with a set value. I did send a credits from Slots@Home to the machine, but it then stopped working. I'm not sure what I changed that screwed that up, as I was experimenting with some different settings. There isn't a setup doc for Slots@Home that outlines the settings on the MK6 machine. I need to keep better (or any) logs of changes and see how things are working along the way. A doc for SASTest that outlines all the settings, tabs, and messages would also be good to have, though I haven't heard one exists.
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I am about to set up my SPC2.5, just wondering what ports you used on the backplane techtoons? I think you mentioned your machine was a mk6?
The doco I have says p19 and p23 on the machine, but p19 on teh aussie cabinets is the SPI port, whereas the P14,P15 and p17 are the rs232 type serial ports (actually configurable via the CCB).
I am going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that its p15 because that is the port that is configured as RS232 by the comms config board.
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Hi Bogan,
I'm using P19 and P23 on the backplane as these are North American/Canadian setup machines. Is P15 a 5 pin connector? On my machine P19 is, which goes to the board.
It sounds like you're on the right track. :)
-Jay
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I've been testing the SPC 2.5 Eliminator harness kit which provides for a way to remove the add-on card. Once I did this I was able to edit and save the Comms Configuration tab where the values are set for getting these type of TITO devices working.
However, the Bill Validation settings are fixed on Validation type as (No Validation or Secure Enhanced). However, the jurisdiction of Columbia says default validation is SYSTEM which these TITO devices need. But there is no Gamma Port option in Game Configuration for the type of game I'm using to get it working. I'm trying to get TITO working on Viridian Widescreen, not Viridian Standard (MK7 19" Narrow Screen), and don't have an MK6.
When I review the setting under the jurisdiction settings found in the Game Setup (set chip audit program) it says no options allowed for this game and that is where I'd find the Gamma Port values. It says in Comms Configuration tab that since World Base 5.07 no SPC 2.5 card is needed and as a result, no SPC 2.5 Configuration tab is found.
I've discovered that each game/theme determines what options are available for settings. The jurisdiction options for validation are the following, None, Game, System, Secure Enhanced, Sec Han D/A, Enhanced.
If ATI has made a wiring harness that removes the need for the protocol converter using only a harness kit then there must be a way to support SAS within what is available. But for some reason at the set chip screen, it says the validation is configurable in the game which it appears is the case yet those options don't appear to be offered by every game. Therefore the ony way I can see TITO working is for many of us to work together in getting Secure Enhanced working over SAS so that the functions we all enjoy now related to TITO over SYSTEM validation are an option.
Anyone interested in working on this to get it over the finish line let me know, I'm doing active research into it now, and I'm sure this was sandbared due to COVID so we'll have to pickup where the group seeking answers on this can reorganize and get it done.