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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => Bally Reel Games => Topic started by: fixinstuff on February 05, 2015, 01:16:36 AM
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This 3 line, 5-reel slot pays all wins in credits. The pays are correct and the display accumulates correctly. When there are credits the 3 buttons on the front are lit. The collect button is steady, the "play 1 or more credits" and "play max credits" blink and the insert coin light is on. But you can't play the credits and you can't collect. You have to put coins in to play even when you have credits. The three buttons stay lit until you insert 3 coins. Then the 3 lights go off. I'm wondering about the DIP switch on the MPU. Anyone have an idea how the switch should be set for credit play? Thanks
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Does your machine have just the jackpot reset on the right side of the cabinet? I'm thinking there has to be a way to turn the credit function off and on? Have you looked inside your top feature unit? I see the 10 on the meter as to play credits won.. Have you checked to make sure your buttons are working correct? I would used a Meter on then to make sure the work..
Gary
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Hello again, amechanic. You helped me on my non-indexing problem on this slot also (another post). This slot has two key switches on the handle side. One on the top box and one down by the handle. Neither do anything for credit play. I have checked the button switches and they all 3 are ok. I'm hoping someone will see this post and have a similiar "credit play" slot and can give me some info on that dip switch on the MPU.
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I'm thinking it has something to do with your top box key.. Bally had a Continental EM that had a white button on the side, and it was used to turn off and on of the credit feature. I'm thinking you might have to do both switches at the same time? It could be in the accounting section where your able to access book keeping using the lower key. If you have the E-Series manual it would be test 6 or 7?
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The MPU does not have a battery. I've been told it isn't needed, but I'm going to put in a battery and see if it makes any difference.
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The battery is used to retain memory, but I don't think is will affect the credit function?
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I have one of these models and the battery is needed to make it work properly. Mine was doing some odd errors and after a battery change it is working well. Not sure if that will fix your issue but I would give it a try. Also you may want to be sure the switch wiring is good up to the boards. You could have a bad molex connection on the door.
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Sunrise. Thanks for the info. I'll try the battery. It won't hurt...except the cost for the battery. And I will check the wiring all the way to the boards. I know the MPU isn't easy to get to, but sometime. when you have time, can you tell me how the dip switch is set on your MPU? It's probably just wishful thinking, but I'm hoping the addition of the credit feature means that the MPU needs that dip switch set for it.
amechanic, I can run tests 6 and 7, but without the battery, all I get is zero values for the 4 meters (meters #17,18,19, and 20). No info about the credit feature.
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I will have the dip switch settings for you soon.
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All DIP switches are "ON", , EXCEPT # 2 is turned OFF
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If your I/O is not fully functional this could be part of the problem as the switches are input to the I/O board.
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Sunrise. Thanks for the quick reply on the dip settings. But...unfortunately that didn't fix the problem. I'm using a board that ramegoom loaned me. And I think it is a 100% functional board. Everything on my slot works with his I/O board...EXCEPT...all wins are paid with credits and I can't play credits or cash out credits. It might just be time to send all boards to dhellis and get them checked out. The original problem with my slot was that the reels would not index. But using the loaner I/O board the reels index good and all tests work. I did put in a new battery on the MPU, but that didn't help either. The wiring is good from the 3 buttons to the I/O board. Something just isn't getting a signal to use the credits to play or cash out. But I'm still open to suggestions to try before sending the boards. BTW, sunrise, does your I/O board have the 2 piggy-back small boards on J5 and J6?
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I will take a look tomorrow. Also there is another board in behind the top glass on mine that is part of the credit feature. May want to send that along with the others.
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sunrise. Right. I know dhellis has that test station for checking out boards, but I don't know if the station will check out boards for the "credit feature". But I bet he has had experience with the credit feature machines. dhellis hasn't replied to this thread yet, but he gave me lots of help on my other thread about this machine. Good help from everybody! Swaping parts with ramegoom was really helpful and isolated the non-indexing reels to my I/O board. But ramegoom didn't have a slot with the credit feature. And...I have to return his I/O board when I get mine fixed! Thanks, talk to ya later.
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Yes I'm not sure if the tester can check the credit boards but Dan maybe able to check the components on the credit board. Have you reseated the chips on the credit board?
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nope. i forgot about that board. I'll check the chips today. But it looks like that board is just a display driver board. I don't know if it has anything to do with actually playing or cashing out of the credits. And the display works OK. Thanks
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I'm not sure but being this credit feature was a add on maybe that board is the add on to make this feature work. ?
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sunrise. Good point. The display credit board does have a PROM on it. So I'll send that board to dhellis too. Thanks
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Boards are on the way to dhellis. I'll come back and post when I get the boards back. In the mean time I've been cleaning this slot up and putting in bulbs, fixing door locks, coin reject button and in general trying to get into how it works some more. Which brings me to another problem with this slot. As I've said before this was pretty messed up slot when I got it. But it's getting close now. Today I noticed that each of the five index wheels has 25 stops, but the reel strips have 24 symbols (12 symbols and 12 blanks). How does that work? I've always noticed that the symbols don't line up with the pay lines. (It's 5 reels, 3 paylines, symbols can be anywhere on a line, and the smallest combination is "any 3 symbols"). For example 3 bars pays 10 credits and they can be on any reel as long as the 3 bars are on the same payline. The way the symbols are spaced around the wheel (24 stops on the strips and 25 stops on the index wheels) it makes the payouts pretty confusing. When I get the boards back from dhellis, I will do some more testing with test #5. I think I'm going to need some new strips! And of course the current strips are very nice...I'm thinking someone along the way put the wrong strips on. The symbols are correct to the payout glass. (star, 7, watermelon, 8-ball, and bar). I'll start a new thread...after I get the boards back and get the slot running again...about how order and replace the reel strips...unless someone wants to talk about it now? Thanks
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Ok... Here is something you can do now. If you carefully peel back the reel strip ends, you should find the numbers and date of each strip. Write that down for each strip and send that information to dehills.. He can take that imformation and see if those strip go with your games chips. He helped me fix a machine last year that had a payout problem on the third reel only.
Did you get your new ribbon cable for the progressive unit?
Gary
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Amechanic. Yes, thanks, I have good ribbon cables. For the strips, I know the strips are wrong because the index wheels have 25 stops and the strips have 24 positions. The strips are beautiful, nice plastic, sharp symbols. But they must be after-market...Bally would never produce these. The symbols are not spaced evenly around the reel! The payouts are ok, it's just that the symbols don't line up exactly on the paylines. The symbols are correct for the game and match the payouts on the payout glass. But getting the strip numbers to dhellis is a good idea...maybe he will know where to get new strips with 25 positions.
The reel strips are correct...see later posts in this topic.
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Finding new or even good used strips is almost impossible.. You have to remember these machines were built in the 1980's. it's like tring to find once new strip for the newer S2000 slots. Once you give dhillis the strip numbers he might be able to give you the disk number needed for those strips?? They do have a number stamped on them.
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I need to do a lot of more study about the reel strips. I'll have to wait until I get the boards back from dhellis so I can get the machine working. Then I can "map" the index wheels using test #5 to see what the CPU is seeing at each index wheel stop. Maybe Bally did make the strips! :Scratch-Head: Maybe the strips just need to be adjusted around the reels. If the symbols would line up good on the paylines, it wouldn't be so confusing looking. I did find a place that makes strips to order. But I haven't talked to them yet. I think I should start a new topic on this reel strip problem...if indeed it is a problem when I get the slot working. This topic probably should just be about the "playing/cashing out credits problem". And hopefully dhellis will find that fix. Thanks, amechanic, I'll be in touch later. PS: to amechanic: I don't have the strip numbers yet. The strip ends are glued and I don't want to ruin them if they don't need replacing.
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The reel strips are usually put together with a double sided tape. It sounds like your strips are just turned in the reel runs. Sometimes you can loosen the mounting screws on the reel tins to the hub, oor the 4 screws in the indexing disk and rotate your symbols that way just a bit.
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In case anyone is reading this topic and concerned about the reel strips, I was WRONG about the reel strips. The index wheels have 25 stops and the strips DO also have 25 positions. Positions 24 and 25 are consecutive blanks (and I was counting the 2 blanks as only 1 blank). So I'm pretty sure the strips are correct to the game...they match the glass and wins are correct. The strips just need to be adjusted on the reels a little so they line up better with the paylines on the glass. They are off about 3/8 inch which makes wins a little odd looking. PS: amechanic. I didn't get the reel strip numbers to dhellis, they are really tight in the reels, but strips are probably correct anyway. I did try to adjust with both index screws and reel screws, but couldn't get enough movement to help. I can live with the symbols being off and maybe someday when I get more brave, I'll try to loosen a strip and move it a little in the reel. See ya'all later when I get the boards back and get this slot finished. At that time I'll try to wrap up the fixes for this E2000.
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OK. Slot is now working. I adjusted the reel strips so they line up with the Paylines. So now back to the topic of this post. The slot pays off in credits. You can play the credits, or cash-out the credits, or use coins and let the credits accumulate. First question, anyone know how to set it to pay in coins? (in other words, how do you turn off the credit feature?) 2nd question: Actually a problem: Now the credit LED isn't lighting up. I've checked all the ribbon cables and connections. The game works correctly...wins, payouts, cash-outs, winner paid display, all manual tests are OK. But the credit display doesn't light up. Once in awhile when I was disconnecting/connecting things (cables, hopper, reel basket, etc) (always with power off) I would get something displayed like a dash...once a 9 when I powered it back up. I guess I need some help in trouble-shooting the credit display. So that's my last 2 projects on this machine.
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Is your credit meter similar to the payout win meter? Is it in a ribbon cable? Is it attached to a different board? Pictures might help.. If its drawing power from a top box board it possible it's just a bad connection or a cap of the board?? I'm just guessing and thinking off the top of my head..
Gary
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Amechanic: Hi. Good to talk with you again. Yes the credit display is like the Win display. LEDs with 16 conductor flat ribbon cable. There is a credit display driver board in the top box. I've checked and re-checked the ribbon cables...I think they are OK. What pics should I attach?
Some additional info on the problem. I still have the IO board from "ramegoom". So I swapped the IO boards. To rehash:
1. With my repaired IO board, everything works, but I have no credit display (but the credit feature works) There's just no display.
2. With ramegoom's IO board, the credit display lights up (zero to start with and accumulates credits with wins). But I can't play the credits or cash them out.
So I think this shows that the LEDs are OK. And probably shows that the display driver board is OK...but I don't know for sure.
jpduffy, is this game the same as your's? I tried the DIP switch setting you gave me (all on except 2 off) but it didn't help.
Again to refresh, it is an e2000 machine (E2304-16) 3 line 5 reel. Thanks
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http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4444.0;attach=11321;image (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4444.0;attach=11321;image)
The credit display driver board:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4444.0;attach=11030;image (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4444.0;attach=11030;image)
showing lights
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5232.0;attach=12445;image (http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5232.0;attach=12445;image)
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Ok so the credit meter works with ramegoom's IO but not your, but with your repaired IO, the game operated with the exception of no credit meter lighting up.. Double check the IO boards to see if they are the same board numbers. I know that dhellis to me a while back that there are jumper settingS on the IO that are for use with 5 and possible 4 reel machines only. When you sent in your MPU & IO for repair, did dhellis know your was for or from a 5 reel machine? I'm just thinking you could have a jumper setting that's not correct?? Compare the two IO's to see if they are the same, or better yet contact Dan, (dhellis) and ask him about the jumper setting for your 5 reeler.. Hopefully it's that simple..
Gary
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sunrise, I got your posts mixed up with jpduffy. You gave me the settings for the DIP switches and I tried the settings with the new repaired board. But it didn't help the present problem and didn't make any difference. Is your game the same as mine? 3 paylines and 5 reels? Do you know how to switch payouts from coins to credits and from credits to coins? Thanks, John
amechanic, Well the boards are the same, but not the same. My repaired board is: P-2948-303, AS-2980-5600
eramegoom's board is: P-2948-303, AS-2980-5600 4.80
I assume the 4.80 indicates a revision? (but we know about assuming, right)
I'll contact dhellis.
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I had to go look at a board for those jumpers.. They are S1 & S2, then S3 gives you two options for on side of a ceramic capacitor? Them S4 & S5 are just a metal jumper wire.. Maybe sunrise can chime in on the IO board and setting from his machine..
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Comparing the boards, they are the same boards. Same jumper wires. I can't find S3 on either board? Tomorrow I'll use an ohm meter and compare the boards. Maybe a bad solder joint on my board somewhere...can't see anything bad so will use the meter. By comparing the too boards, I should be able to find some difference that might be the problem. We'll see. Back tomorrow. Got to get some sleep now. Strange...eramegoom's board displays credits but won't let you use them. My board lets me use the credits, but won't display them...strange. John
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Ok take 2.. First try failed to post?? I took some pictures of the IO jumper setting mentioned. I hope they are not too fuzzy, I used my cell phones camera..
Gary
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Amechanic. Thanks for the images. I can see them fine. On my boards (the loaner and my repaired one) the jumpers are a litle different than yours. I see the S3 now and all three boards have the same S3 and it is some sort of a coil inductor. S1 and S5 are empty on all 3 boards. I don't know what that is on your board for S2 and S4. My boards have wire for S2 and S4. Your boards might have diodes or capacitors for S2 and S4? But since both of my boards are the same, I doubt that the wire jumpers vs your jumpers is causing my credit display problem. I have heard from dhellis yet.
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The parts called S2 and S4 are shunts, they act the same as a jumper. It is just a wire put inside a resistor body so that the part can be auto-inserted into the circuit board by a machine at the factory. Saves time over having a human solder in the jumper by hand. You can think of it as a straight piece of wire. You can recognize it due to the single black band around the mid section. A black band means zero on the resistor color code, indicating a 0 ohm resistor, aka a jumper or shunt.
I think you are mistaking S3 for the inductor coil L1. S3 is a place for a jumper/shunt just below the inductor coil L1. It looks like S3 is not installed in the photo. The board notation for L1 inductor coil is just to the right of the inductor. In the photo I think we can't see the left side pad of S3 because the capacitor C36 is in the way.
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Thanks rokgpsman. I didn't know any of that before. And you're right about the L1 and L2 also. S3 could be a trace on the back side of the PCB. The trace connects one side of L1 to the through-hole on the top side and then a trace connects to +input voltage. And both of my boards have the same circuit. So I'm thinking that the jumpers are not causing the "no credit display" problem. I'll keep comparing component resistance between my two boards and maybe I'll find something that way.
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My machine is down the road and i will take a look at it tomorrow. It is a 3 reel 5 coin single line. Dan did say there is two types of I/O's.
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I have a credit machine also and here is the jumpers on the I/O
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Last ones
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My machine is down the road and i will take a look at it tomorrow. It is a 3 reel 5 coin single line. Dan did say there is two types of I/O's.
Tim,
If you could look at your 5 reel machine to see how its setup or it has for the IO. FIxinstuff's machine is a 5 reel. The Jumper setting and different IO boards, are used in the larger machines. I had asked dhellis a while back about the jumpers. He emailed me back with the details, but I deleted the email before I got it printed.. :banghead:
Gary
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A difference I see between the Proten photo named 039 in reply #38 compared to the same area on Amechanic's bottom photo in reply #33 is in the R77 area. In Proten's photo R77 has an added capacitor soldered to it in parallel. Probably not a significant difference but I don't have a schematic drawing. R77 is located a little above the jumper S4.
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I forgot my phone for pics, but my credit E2000 I/O has two buffer boards mounted on it. One on the lower left and a smaller one on the lower right. They have ribbon cables attached. My machine also has three non working progressive displays. so its a different configuration. Fixinstuff please post pics of your I/O board and your credit display driver board.
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This is my other machine it's a 5 reel E2000 . It does not have credits. Here's the i/o jumpers. Interesting this has a E1000 i/o sticker.
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Sunrise,
In your first photo showing the S3 jumper I can't figure out where the other S3 solder pad is?? In other earlier photos I thought it was hidden from view by capacitor C36 by the angle of the camera but in your photo it is clear that S3 pad is not where I thought it would be. Is one of the S3 pads underneath the inductor coil L1 (looks like a solder pad or something under there)? If so, possible the S3 jumper can be installed on back of board?
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According to the manual S1, S3, S5 are not used. S2 is connected to leg 5 and S4 is connected to leg 2 on chip U5. No info as to what they do.
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Looks like U5 is a custom programmed prom.
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OK. Here's where we're at. Thanks to all for the good pics. We are all OK on the jumpers. We all have the same jumpers. BTW S3 is connected by a trace on the back (see my earlier post). Now, remember. I have the loaner IO board from eramegoom. While comparing the two boards (loaner vs my repaired board) I noticed U15 didn't test the same. I'm only testing ohms between pairs of legs...don't know how good a test that is, but...anyway I swapped U15 between the boards and wow, my repaired board now works 100%. I put my old U15 back in and the display lights up with some junk stuff, but doesn't work correctly. So I'm thinking that U15 is corrupted. I'll put the good U15 back on the loaner board and make sure it works as it did before. I'll post the results shortly after I do the swap back...I just wanted all to know where I am so far. John
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Nice work John.. :applause: I'm sure if you contact Dan (dhellis) that he can help you replace that U15 prom.. I see it has a Bally number on it, so he should be able to get you a replacement. He has a lot of those older chips on file. If not I'm sure we can find one some where. Once again nice job done..
Gary
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Thanks for the kudos, amechanic. But a lot of credit goes to all of you that posted and stuck with helping me. To bring everyone up to date now. When I put the loaner board back in the machine it acted the same as before...the game played right and credit display showed credits but no way to play or cash out credits. SO, the loaner board in the same condition as when I got it...good! I can send it back to eramegoom now. Before I put my board back in I noticed that there's 2 of the chips with the same numbers...wonder what would happen if I just swapped the two chips? Well, I swapped them...put the IO board back in and...WOW again. Now the slot is working 100% with my IO board. I really don't like it when a problem is fixed and I don't know why. Maybe the chips needed to be reset. The legs looked good and the sockets were good. But I'm happy with it now and will leave it alone and play it for awhile. I'm really gun-shy now though. I'm afraid it will quit working. My fingers are sore from pushing the test switch. And I've bent so many pins on the ribbon cables that they scare me to death too!!! But I feel good tonight...thanks to all of you. A donation to the site is on the way. I guess this topic can be closed out now? Except if any of you that have the credit feature know how to switch to coin payout instead of credit payout, I'd like to know how too. So as Brenda Lee's mom says to her in one of her songs "come in now, that's enough for tonight". John
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Sunrise. The display board is up at post 28. And this is the IO board. I think it is probably the same as yours: It has the two piggy-back boards same as yours. My machine was probably hooked up to some progressive system at one time, but there is no indication on any of the glass. It does have a little board down by the hopper (on the right side of the case) that looks like maybe a Wi-Fi sender or something. I think it is no longer needed or working. Does your credit machine have a way to payout in coins instead of credits? John
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Fixinstuff, no mine currently works like yours. You could try changing one DIP switch setting at a time and see if one of those switches are for that option as the DIP does make changes to the machines options. May want to clear the credits first before changing the DIP switch. Good stuff here on your repair. Not to many of these around that I am aware of.
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fixinstuff,
On the piggy-back board in lower left of your photo there are several jumpers arranged in 4 different groups. In the photo it looks like 4 of them are cut or removed. Do these select operating options on the machine and is your jumper configuration in this area the same as other users machines?
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rokgpsman, good point. it does look like some of the jumpers have been cut. And it is called the "slot I.D." board. But if that is what has to be done to make it pay off in coins, I'll just leave it as it is now. Sunrise said his credit machine plays the same as mine. I was hoping that maybe the player had a choice of how he would like to be paid. Some people like to hear the coins kick out. Players can still "cash out" after each win if they want. I had an IGT one time and the player could push the cash out button when there was no credits showing and the cash button acted like a toggle switch. But probably since this is one of Bally's early "credit feature" machines, there probably isn't any way for the player to change it. Thanks again for noticing those jumpers on the ID board. Without info from Bally, we'll probably never know what the different jumper configurations do. John
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OK. This topic can be closed out now. Thanks to all. I swapped the two ICs back to original positions and the machine still works as designed. So I'm guessing that the problem of the credit display not working was that at least one of the two chips wasn't making good contact with it's socket and by taking them out of the sockets and cleaning the "legs" and re-inserting the IC's fixed the problem. Someone on the forum suggested reseating all the IC's and I did on the MPU, but didn't do all the ICs on the IO. So...to wrap up: this is what was done to get this machine back in working condition:
1. Clean up all interior
2. Tape up all wires chewed on by mice (I guess?)
3. Replace ends of ribbon cable that had broken pins Also replaced original green ribbon cable sockets with IC sockets giving better contact with new "short pin" connectors.
4. Replace power supply connector
5. Repair broken molex connector in reel basket connection
6. Replace all fuse holders
7. Replace star agitator in hopper
8. Replace several lamps and bulbs
9. Install top candle light
10. Repaired front door lock so door closes easily
11. Met, worked with and borrowed IO board from ramegoom to isolate non-indexing reels to the IO board (LUCKY FOR ME...THANKS RAMEGOOM)
12. Sent IO board to dhellis who replaced C38 cap, U12 and U8 (this fixed the non-indexing reel problem) other boards checked OK
12. Cleaned and re-seated U15 and U10 (this fixed the non-credit display problem)
13. Adjusted the reel strips on the reels so the symbols line-up with the paylines.
14. Adjust coin mechanism for size of coins/tokens
15. Tightened arm and kick switch connections
16. Replaced the MPU battery
17. Lubed
18. And last but not least, got on this forum and and got lots of help from lots of people. Listen to them, they have lots of experience
WHEW!! Hope all this helps someone else also.
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:agreepost: :NLG_WELCOME: :wav: :congrats: