New Life Games LLC
**Video Poker, Keno, Slots, 21** Gaming machines => Bally Alpha (Cinevision), and ALL Bally "V___" series - V5000, V2000, V1000, etc. => Topic started by: mr-monoxide on September 02, 2016, 03:05:32 PM
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So I just bought my 3rd alpha, it's a V20 that has a 200127 cpu. I would like to install a dual vga card and top monitor to make it a 20/20 but I'm unsure if I have enough cpu to successfully run the games I would like to install. I do have a 200173 cpu that I could swap in if that would be a better option. What would be the best thing to do? How badly will the cpu limits affect my game choices?
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I would recommend getting a 1gig MPU with 1 or 2 gigs of memory. You can play newer games on it like Wild Huskies, Gold Bug Series, Instant Riches series, Lightning Jackpots, Fireball 1 & 2, Emerald Falls and a few others. Older games will load a lot faster and performance is greatly improved. You can find a 1gig board for around $200-250 with video card.
If you want to stick with the old MPUs, yes, you can add a video card. All your adding is the GLASS graphics and you'll be able to play older V32 games but the image will be sideways.
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Can you post the PCA number, it is easier to identify the cpu by that number.
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Can you post the PCA number, it is easier to identify the cpu by that number.
Both of the boards in the 172 and 173 have the same #. PCA39456-0-0 REV D
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A couple games I would like to install are blazing 7 hot shot, not the hot shot progressive but the regular non-progressive only because I like the white background of the reels better than the black. Super fireball frenzy was another one I was considering. A 1g CPU obviously would be the best option but for the moment I would like to make do with the CPUs I have unless the games are going to play super glitchy.
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The original Hot Shot Progressive does have a white background and is a lot more fun than the standard B7 video. Just my opinion.
With the PCA number you posted, you will be able to add a video card. Some of these boards were used in older V32 games which required the video card to shift the video vertically.
The games you listed will play fine on your boards. Even the orginal Hot Shot B7 (with white background)
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I'm with coolwave on this one, the 1Ghz MPU will give you the best flexibility and total compatibility with all available alpha 1 and even some early alpha 2 games. Although you can install the dual video card on your mpu type, the limited memory and speed of the mpu will limit on the types of games you can install. All Hot shot games are progressive, what you mean is you want the regular hot shot progressive, not the 15 reel version, which would run kind of slow on your mpu anyway. I think you will find that the earlier games (the ones that start with AVG) will work fine on your mpu type with the video card. Once you start getting into the 2xxxxx and 3xxxxx games, you might start to notice erratic gameplay.
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Thanks guys. This has cleared up a lot of questions for me. One last thing I'm wondering is if the dual output vga card that I would use in my 512 mpu could also be used in the 1g mpu when I get one later down the road?
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YES
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Awesome, thanks!
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Ok just one more question, does the game maker software require a touchscreen top monitor? Would having a touchscreen up top be beneficial for newer games once I upgrade my cpu?
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You would need the game maker button panel, 1gig board, and game maker hardware to play GameMaker suite. I still haven't found the button panel but I haven't been looking for it for quite some time. Also, it does not require a 2nd touch screen.
A tip tho, Suite 7 allows you to load 1 game at a time without the hardware. Most of the slots on GameMaker are available as standalone titles, as well as a few poker games. Triple Trouble Poker and Multiplay Blackjack for instance as available as standalone titles and have no need for GameMaker hardware or button panel.
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Ok just one more question, does the game maker software require a touchscreen top monitor? Would having a touchscreen up top be beneficial for newer games once I upgrade my cpu?
To the best of my knowledge there are no dual touchscreen games for the alpha 1 platform. I believe the only games that ever used dual touchscreens were the iReel stepper games, Bally's version of transmissive reel games. On my iReel V20/20 both the top and the bottom monitor require touchscreens to be working in order for the game to function. No other V20/20 game I've used has ever required dual touchscreens.
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Ok, that's definitely enough info to get me started and headed in the right direction. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
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Just wanted to check with you guys before I start ordering parts to turn my v20 into a 20/20. I know I need the monitor and the dual output video card, is there any other components I'll need that I'm not aware of?
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The brackets to mount the monitor in the top box door. Also you will need a vga cable to connect the top monitor to the dual vidio card. On factory 20/20 cabinets, the cables run from the mpu to the top box plate that sits between the main part of the cabinet and the top box. This plate also has the power and signal harnesses that top box stuff uses (candle light connector, 5/12/24v power for various things like toppers and other top box peripherals). Then the monitor gets it's power from this top box distribution plate and the vga cable as well. Usually there's a dual 15pin VGA female connector to mate the cable that comes from the bottom of the cabinet to the one in the top box. Also usually there's a second serial db9 in there as well that is not connected from the bottom of the cabinet, but it is connected at the top. You probably don't need to run that cable though, unless you plan on converting to alpha2 in the future.
So to summarize:
On my factory v20/20, the top monitor has power/vga/ and touchscreen connected to the top box distribution board. (although I have yet to find a use for the top touchscreen on alpha 1 games).
The mpu has a vga cable going from the dual video card to the bottom side of the topbox distribution board's DB15H VGA mating connector. On V20 cabinets, this connector is not there, and the hole where the connector goes is covered by a "punch out" plate. The easiest way is to just use a long cable and connect the top monitor's vga lcd to the dual video card directly. I guess it all depends on how close to factory looks you want it.
Make sure you get the brackets to mount the top monitor correctly. Not all monitors are created equal, and you have to get one that goes to the top box as it is not a thick as the the ones I've usually run across in the standard V20 setups. The ones on the top box need to be shallower in order for the hinge on the top door to work properly, the deeper monitor used on the main door won't work. Also make sure you get the power harness for the top monitor that plugs into the top box distribution board.
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Will I get an error if I don't hook up the top touchscreen serial? If not I won't bother to run it. Looks like I'll be needing the brackets and the power harness. I have been searching vendors for the power harness with no luck so far, do you know of a good source for that and the brackets?
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You don't need to hook up the touchscreen for the top, you can leave it unplugged. The easiest way to find what you need is to find someone who is parting out a S9000E reel machine and just buy the whole topbox door with the monitor already mounted on it. Otherwise you are going to have a hard time finding the brackets. I had to make my own brackets out of aluminum sheets to mount a monitor on my door. I think the last time I saw someone selling brackets was central valley slots, but they are on an extended "cruising around the USA" tour.
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Ok I've got everything I need to do this conversion. I'll be changing the OS as well as the bios and jurisdiction chips and installing the new video card also. My question is concerning the protocol for changing these items. Is it a step by step process or do I change everything at once? Do I do a clear before or after? Is there anything in the set up menu I need to change for the video card to work or is it simply plug n' play? Any info offered will be most helpful, I just want to make sure I get it right.
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The video card is just like plugging one into a pc, just plug it in and secure it. The OS will automatically find the card and make use of it. You can install bios, sjur and video card at once. Then clear with the correct clear CF and then proceed to load game as usual.
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Thanks! I'll be doing all of this tomorrow so hopefully.... well, we'll see.
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Ok I've got everything installed and the game is up and running with only one problem. The top monitor is blank. It showed everything the bottom monitor showed during boot up but once the game kicks in it goes blank. I have both hooked to the dual vga video board that I just installed. Is that correct? Should both be hooked up to the new card or does one still need to be plugged into the original vga port on the cpu? If I have it hooked up correctly what could the problem be?
Update: I have checked everything I can think of. I've reinstalled the video card, verified all connections are good and plugged into the proper locations, performed a clear several times and have verified that all set up configurations are correct to the best of my knowledge but the top monitor is still blank. As I said earlier it displays a mirror image of the lower screen during boot up showing all the text and what not associated with that process but as soon as the Hot Shot logo screen appears on the lower screen the upper says "no signal" then goes blank. It's almost like the game itself isn't sending the top screen a signal. At this point I'm completely at a loss for what to do next. :banghead: Please help!!
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Not all games have dual screen compatiblity. Which hot shot are you running? The video version of the original hot shot game or the 15 reel version? The original Hot shot video version was meant to run on a cinevision cabinet, which only has one screen. The newer "15" reel version does support dual screens. The fact that you are getting cloned images during the boot process means everything is connected properly. Both monitors should be connected to the video card, that is the correct way.
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It's the original hot shot. The game software I have must not support dual screens. However I'm sure I've seen that game with a top monitor in use even though it only displayed the hot shot logo. Although maybe I'm mistaken and it was a glass with the logo and not a monitor. I guess I need to resume my search for the proper software. Do they make the original hot shot software that supports dual screens or am I forced to go with the 15 reel version? For me personally the whole purpose for converting to dual monitors was so I could have the original hot shot specifically. I really don't care for the 15 reel version plus I've a feeling that it won't work very well with my current cpu but I guess I'll run it if I have no other choice.
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Every Alpha game I have loads the glass graphics for dual screen. Even the classic version of hot shot. Do you have another game to load to see if you get a top box graphic?
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I have the game that came with the machine, black & white sevens. Originally it had the glass for that game up top so I really hadn't considered that software as a diagnostic tool but your suggestion is a good one. I'll load it up now and will report back momentarily with the result...
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Exact same results with the other game, both monitors show boot up info then they both flash on/off a couple times, the top monitor then displays "no signal input" and the splash screen appears on the lower. Top monitor remains blank.
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My suggestion on this is go ahead and get a Real 1-gig box-That is not a gamemaker box. At that point you can bump it to 2-gig by adding a memory stick, At that point you will have the speed and nice graphics to take advantage of some of the games that are available. Your dino box is really a "Drag" time wise for what you want and I would suggest that you do not have proper software. My opinion. Have a good weekend-what is left of it.
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I plan on upgrading the cpu but it will be quite a while before that can happen. Looks like I've got a 300 lbs $1000 paper weight until then...
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Take a picture of the software that you think is v-20/20. You are going to have at least a 336 os with a 335 clear etc. Sounds like you are on a budget and I can respect that, K-Mart does not have those strobe blue light specials anymore. There is a Joker on e-bay stating they have a 1-gig box-They do it's a gamemaker box-non-upgradeable. Then there are others on there also that are legit.
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Here's the pic of the game and OS.
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I switched the vga cables on the video board just to confirm that the top monitor did indeed work and to eliminate it as a potential problem. It worked fine but of course the bottom monitor was blank. I've switched them back now. Should I try swapping the mpu? I have the exact same one in both my s9000's. Is it worth a try or do I simply have a software issue?
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What's OS and what is your BIOS number.
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OS is AVOS00000336-09 bios is AVBBP26S300M
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Just to clarify... Did you let the game boot all the way ?
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Not all games have dual screen compatiblity. Which hot shot are you running? The video version of the original hot shot game or the 15 reel version? The original Hot shot video version was meant to run on a cinevision cabinet, which only has one screen. The newer "15" reel version does support dual screens. The fact that you are getting cloned images during the boot process means everything is connected properly. Both monitors should be connected to the video card, that is the correct way.
Rick - Even if a game was meant to run a Cinevision, its the same software that would be in the 20/20. There is no difference.
Here is the classic on my machine... The top monitor displays the GLASS.
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Wonder if it's a memory shortage issue then, that you would require at least 1gb of ram? I will load up the game on a V20/20 tomorrow and test it with a 512mb dual video box.
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Let me know what you find out. I would do it but my old MPUs are buried somewhere.
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Just to clarify... Did you let the game boot all the way ?
Yes several times. I'm going to swap out the cpu with one from another machine. It's the exact same cpu but at least I'll know if the original had some issue or not. Plus it's the last thing I can think of to do that I haven't tried.
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I changed to a different cpu but it didn't fix the problem, still no top display. If the memory capacity of the cpu is a possible issue then I would assume that I should experience some sort of lag or choppy game play but it doesn't seem to do that. Gameplay is smooth and quick from what I can see.
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Here are some pictures, maybe they'll help in some way.
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I'm beginning to think the cpu doesn't recognize that there is a 2nd monitor available and doesn't send a signal to the 2nd vga port. This may be a compatibility issue with the video card. I have a Jaton Nvidia GeForce FX5200 228PCI-TWIN. I've looked but can't seem to find any other video card listed, I hope I have the right one. Has anyone heard of any compatibility issues with this card?
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that should be the right card, the fact that you are getting an image means it is working correctly. I didn't get around to trying the hot shot game with my v20/20 today with a 512MB mpu, but I will tomorrow for sure. I think your issue is the mpu, but I will verify that for sure tomorrow. I have to the load the game twice (once with the 1gb mpu to verify the game works with dual screen, and once with the 512mb mpu to see if the same problem you have happens to me as well.
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Thanks! I really appreciate you doing that. I'll be interested to see if the problem repeats. The reason I mentioned compatibility as a potential source of the problem is because I noticed on more than a few PC forums that people with dual monitor issues were describing the same symptoms that I am encountering. Which is that both monitors show bios info until the splash screen appears then one monitor goes blank from signal loss. Sure sounded exactly like my problem but maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges when referring to pc's vs slot machines. In any case I sure hope to find an answer not just for me but for anyone experiencing a similar situation.
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I am currently putting togther two more v-20/20 for customers. I install a true 1-gig box which can be bumped to 2-gig to run some early a-2 titles. Your box is not going to work in my opinion. It does not have enough "balls" to drive this. Since you get video on top on boot on monitor is a good sign your dual vid. card is good. I also question the game software as well. You are going to wind up getting a 1-gig box-again my opinion.
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So here's something interesting and maybe the info will be helpful in finding a solution. Out of curiosity and because I had nothing else to try I went ahead and installed the old 317 o/s and bios chip to see what would happen and amazingly the top monitor worked but it's showing the same game image as the lower not a separate 'glass' image up top. Not sure what this may indicate but at least I got it to display something even if it's still not correct.
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Well, I tried it with both a 1ghz mpu (the one with dual memory slots) and a 512MB box, and other than longer loading times, the game displayed the Hot Shot Logo on the top screen like it is supposed to. The only thing that appears to be different is the version of the game. I have 10816B as shown in the photo. This is a screenshot of my software versions. I also took a screenshot of the game loaded in my cabinet with the 512MB MPU (It had not yet fully loaded, so it doesn't have the playscreen)
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That's great to know and very helpful. Thanks so much for taking the time to do that. It's a relief to know that the hardware I have is capable. Looks like I'll be needing the correct software like you have, any idea where I can find it?
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I'm curious about something. Post a picture of your dual video graphics card, both sides of the card.
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Ok, I'll do that as soon as I get home from work. I've had my suspensions about the video card as well...
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The reason I ask it's because on PC's if the video cards don't have drivers, it defaults to standard vga. If the game does not require the nvdia card to function (which it does not), then the card will automatically "clone" the displays if multiple monitors are connected if there's no video driver to control the card's output. It is only through video drivers that the mpu can direct a different image to a different monitor port. That explains why the old OS, which doesn't contain drivers for the video card, displays both screens cloned. The newer os does have nvidia drivers, but if it is not the right type or correct vga bios version, it won't work right. Your game being in the 2xxxx series, should be able to display both screens if mine, which is clearly an earlier revision, does.
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That's kinda what I meant when I asked if any compatibility issue with this video card had been reported although I obviously didn't offer a detailed explanation or word it as elegantly as you did.
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I had assumed you bought a known tested video card, but since you referred to the card by something other than a bally dual video card, maybe you bought a generic that does not have the right version of the vga bios to work on it. I have two different revisions of the bally video card, so I can compare your board to what I have that I know works. If it's the same, then we can assume it's the software at that point.
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I bought the card brand new from a gaming vendor that listed it specifically for bally alpha 1 9000 series machines, in fact the exact same one was just listed on ebay today by a different vendor but they also say it is for the alpha 1. Here are the pictures of it.
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I've looked all over the internet and everyone lists the same video card.
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The card doesn't look like any I have seen before. I have seen two types in the 30 or so video cards I've handled. The vga bios version is very important since the Bally OS specifically only works with a specific card oem type. That card is definitely not one that I have ever seen used in a bally machine. The system identifies the card based on the PCI vendor ID information, if it doesn't match with what the Bally OS expects, it doesn't know it's there. At this point, my best guess is that your video card's PCI Vendor ID does not match the one used by Bally, and thus your OS is not finding the card and it is using the card strictly as a frame buffer (i.e. plain VGA type). The only way to know for sure is to try your software on a known working v20/20 or use a known to work Bally compatible video card. When I get home today I will post photos of the two variations of cards I've seen over the last 2 or so years. There may be an indication during post (boot) where the system displays the type of vga card it detects. I will have to boot up a system and pay close attention to the entire boot process to verify that, but linux typically lists the vga PCI vendor ID as it probes for hardware. When it comes to bally gaming hardware, and due to gaming certification, not all FX5200 pci cards will work, only those that match 100% with what bally got approved.
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I understand what you're saying. If that is the case and this card is not compatible someone definitely needs to let all the gaming vendors know this because this is the one they are all selling currently.
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What e-bay listing are talking about?
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Search for Bally Alpha 1 Video Card and it pops right up.
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i took a video of the bios on boot up so i could look at it frame by frame. here are snapshots of the info i believe you were talking about. the 1st photo was taken at the very end of boot up, the screen then goes black for a moment and then it pops up the info shown in the 2nd photo for only a millisecond, immediately after that the top monitor loses is signal.
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Here is what the most common dual-vid. graphics card approved for Bally looks like. As Rick stated there is another also and I can't get to those now. The one you have looks like one for a regular computer pc.
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I tend to agree at this point but as I mentioned earlier every vendor I check shows the card I have. I really hate to argue with the vendor I bought it from but they're not going to believe me when I tell them it won't work, they're going to figure I'm doing something wrong and refuse to give me a refund. Plus even if they did give me a refund and I bought another from a different vendor I would most likely receive the exact same one that won't work... I'm never going to get this machine working....
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here is a description of the card i have directly from a vendors page
Bally Alpha 1 Video Card NEW[/font][/font]This is to be used in a Bally Alpha 1 Slot Machine. Compatible with Video-228PCI-Twin, Nvidia FX5200, Bally Video Card OEM PN 200951[/size][/font][/color]Found In:[/b]
[/size][/font]- Bally Alpha Machines
- Bally M9000
- Bally Alpha 1[/size]
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I would say to keep investigating the video card and software as well. Just because I don't recognize it does not mean it won't work. You should get a true dual video game cf to test all this as what you are using was not designed for this. A 512 box with dual vid. and a measly 128 file.
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I'm no computer code expert by any means but after looking at the boot up info in the 2 pictures I posted earlier this is what I "think" it's means. In the 1st photo it looks like the machine sees the card and attempts (or does) install a driver for it. In the 2nd photo however it appears that the driver could not be used or not inserted as the last line of code says. (Sorry for the blurry pic, it's the best I could do) As I said earlier this is the last thing that shows on the screen before the top monitor immediately loses its signal. What does everyone think? Am I reading that correctly?
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I know I am no code expert either. I do Know that if you would have started out with good equipment this thread would not be active. Many want to skimp and cut corners on their desires, Sometime-mostly it does not work out that way. Buy from certified vendors Here-They know what works or go to goodwill/salvation army and continue on the low-low. Just my opinion . I have worked on these Bally games a Long time, Have some that are worth as much as small houses or lux. cars. Hope you get this going.
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Based on your picture of the boot process, the nvidia card is not found during the probe. The boot process always attempts to load the Nvidia driver. The Nvidia.ko file is the kernel module (i.e. kernel level driver). After the Nvidia.ko loads, you should see the results of the system probing for a supported pci vga device. In your case, it shows nothing, which means the Nvidia.ko file that loaded does not support any currently installed nvidia card. This is a picture of my system at the same time as your first photo. Note the sections that says:
PCI: Found IRQ 9 with 0000 : 00 :02 :03 .0
^^^^ that is the Nvdia card. IRQ 9 is the BIOS Interrupt used to access the video card. Your boot shot does not find any PCI devices after the Kernel module is loaded. If the Nvidia card you had was supported, you would have seen the same message after the kernel module loaded.
Also, note that the first thing that shows on the screen for maybe 1 second or so right after you turn on your system but before you begin to see the bally alpha bios post messages, should be the Nvidia card bios version and memory information as shown on the 2nd photo here.
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Here are photos of 3 different revisions of the bally "compatible" video card. Note that they all have the pcb number 82228M/Vx on top of the heatsink, where x in my case is 4, 6, and 7. The backs all look exactly the same, with the stickers having different information on it. All these look similar to the photos 777sizzler posted.
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So obviously I need a different video card. Does this mean that this card would not work on any alpha 1? How should I go about getting the correct card if this is the only one the vendors I know of have listed?
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The card you have is not supported by the video driver used in the Bally OS, so other than having a "cloned" image, you wouldn't get anything else out of it.
The one being sold by "ellarygaming" (SP?) is not the correct one, as evidenced by your experience.
The one from skygaming (based on the photo) looks to be the correct one.
Of course the only way to guarantee 100% it is the right one is to purchase from someone who has actually tested the card in-cabinet.
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Update: The new video card arrived today and everything is finally working correctly. In an effort to make sure i got the right card this time I actually had 2 sent to me from separate sources, I have future plans for the 2nd card anyway. I even bought a 1G cpu as recommended numerous times but it was delivered to me smashed to pieces and obviously non-functional so i currently have no choice but to run the 512 that i already had but so far the game seems to operate just fine in that cpu. I really want to thank everyone that helped me to figure out what the problem was, there were some questions that i probably couldn't have had answered any other way or by anyone else and i greatly appreciate it.
Here's a pic of the machine up and running.
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Glad you have it running .. and that it wasn't a software issue.
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Your game looks great!
Glad you got it figured out :yes:
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Glad you got the right card. This hobby can be frustrating, especially if the vendor claims that part will work, but they obviously have not tested the part properly and they are not selling you an OEM part. The community here at NLG is a gold mine. More often than not, someone has gone through your issue as well, and it is the willingness to share that which makes this place what it is.